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#42463 - 02/11/03 01:12 PM new to forum-what is abuse?
jojo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2
Loc: midwest
I've recently had a flood of memories about being abused and being an abuser brought on by a confrontation by one of my siblings.

My first priority is doing what I can for the sib I have abused and I am seeking an experienced counseler for myself and offering whatever assistance i can do for my sib.

Becasue my memores are vague, I having a hard time latching onto the abuse that I suferred and it makes me wonder If what i recall to be consensual relations are in fact abuse.

I believe these relations first took place when I was between 8-11 with a neighbor 2 or 3 years older. It may have been with my brother 2 years older. In any case it continued for perhaps 5 or 7 years.

My question: what is abuse? If I enjoyed this and at times soughgt it out--it is abuse and am I a survivor?

Appreciate your input.

_________________________
jojo

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#42464 - 02/11/03 01:29 PM Re: new to forum-what is abuse?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
jojo, some of the questions you are asking are addressed in the posting/thread entitled if it feels right.

I think you are doing the right thing in seeking counselling and making sure your sibling's needs are being looked after. I think the latter is a particularly responsible and courageous thing to do. It shows, despite any doubts you may have, that you are owning up to any responsibility you may have had in causing your sib's pain. If your sibling is male, you might consider referring him to this forum.

As for your own abuse, you, by your own admission, are somewhat vague as to the details so it is hard to really offer an opinion.

I just read a quote from mikechurch in another thread, it was describing his life on the streets, and might be the best definition of whether abuse is taking place or not.

Quote:
there were winners and losers in every sexual contact
In other words, if there is a winner or loser in a sexual encounter. Then almost certainly there has been a perpetrator and victim.

Peace, Andrew


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#42465 - 02/11/03 01:56 PM Re: new to forum-what is abuse?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
jojo
you're a very brave man to face yourself like this and ask such hard questions.
I'm pleased you are seeing a therapist, it's the only way to go.

What is abuse ? I suppose we all have different ideas on that, but my own is "Using power or influence over someone for sexual gratification"

I don't doubt that other people will have other ideas, maybe a professional would give a purely "medical" de>
_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#42466 - 02/11/03 02:00 PM Re: new to forum-what is abuse?
jojo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2
Loc: midwest
andrew-- thanks for your reply> i'm vague because I don't have lots of good solid recollections, particually in regards to dates (ages)and how it all got started. I do know that I participated, I recall enjoymen and i recall that i sometimes initiated things. I'm having a hard time determining if I was a particpaint or a victim.

_________________________
jojo

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#42467 - 02/11/03 02:33 PM Re: new to forum-what is abuse?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
jojo

Quote:
I'm having a hard time determining if I was a particpaint or a victim.
I'm not sure if photo recall of the events is necessary. How you feel may be more important. Do you honestly feel like a victim? I recall you saying that your initial impression was that your experience with the neighbor/older bros was consensual.

Quote:
it makes me wonder If what i recall to be consensual relations are in fact abuse
Also, is there a big age difference between your other sibling who confronted you and yourself? If you were both fairly close in age, this raises the question as to whether there was really any abuse going on at all, or whether it might be better characterized as experimentation. Either way, seeing a therapist is a very good idea for both you and your sibling. Peace, Andrew


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#42468 - 02/11/03 04:47 PM Re: new to forum-what is abuse?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
JoJo what matter most is that you are here with us and seeking help.I agree with what everyone has said here. You are doing the right stuff now. It will not be easy and soemtimes I wonder if total recall of everything is altogether healthy or necessay. I really believe that it can sometimes be very dangerous. If you have a recollection about it, it happened. Fantasy does not play a part in it. If you were one or two years younger and were 12 and if your sibling was around the same age it probably was experimentation (so called). What we cannot fathom is what effect it has on someonem else. Remember I spoke about winners and losers in another thread. Sure it felt good when it happened. At 12 masturbation is a relatively new pheomenum for us all. A pounding erection at that age is a joy to hold and be with. If you think that what you experienced with the neighbour was abuse it does not matter how it felt. You lost and were used to meet anothers needs. Here is a scenario to think about. Two 12 year olds. One says Ill suck yours if you suck mine. Sounds evil, forbidden and dangerous and you have heard other kids talk about blow jobs and fags but what the hell he is your buddy and is playing with your cock so it must be alright. So you do it. He gets his jollies and now renages on his offer to do the same for you. Says something like next time. Man it was exciting but the sucker has been vitimized whether he knows it or not. It is called manipulation. it may be that is what your subconscious is hiding from you. Stick around and heal with us brother.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#42469 - 02/11/03 05:37 PM Re: new to forum-what is abuse?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hello jojo,

Welcome to MaleSurvivor. jojo, I think you are at the beginng of a period of recall. It is not a good idea to try to force recalls, no matter why you want to recall. It seems to me that they come when we are ready. For me, recall took a couple of years before my flashbacks were definite memories. If I could have chosen I would have liked to have had none of it.

Lloyd has a good point, coercion makes for abuse and coercion can be disguised so it does not feel like it for quite some time.

Richard Gartner, the President of MS has written a book called BETRAYED AS BOYS. In his book Richard talks about betrayed and violated as a better choice of words than abuse. Some kids are betrayed but do not see themselves as abused. Like a 16 yo boy having loads of sex with his 32 yo female teacher. He has been betrayed and he will, eventually, most likely come to feel violated, when it messes up his relationships, having sex with a woman his own age or even his wife. Most library's will have the book or get it for you.
Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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