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#423017 - 01/23/13 01:44 PM free speech vs. censorship
cosmos Offline


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 183
Loc: Puget Sound
A recent topic here that questions the very nature of allowed conversation where certain members were more concerned with labeling and finger-pointing deeply concerns me. All of us here know the silence, know how hard it was the first time we discussed our abuse with anyone, it’s called “self-censorship”. Typically this relates to political discourse but is relevant here as I’m sure I’m not the only one who tries to ensure that what I post will not be considered injurious to others or even mean spirited; “self-censorship”. We are all dealing with issues that affect everything we do, everyone we meet and everything we are, truth and honesty are the only tools we have to combat years of self-torment and abuse by others, the last thing we need here is any type of censorship due to a perceived offense by members. I know the US constitution does not reign supreme here but it should serve as a model for what is allowed. Offensive speech is allowed, obscenity is not, I can’t see how certain offensive words could be misconstrued as obscenity when no obscene or personal attacks were carried out by a member. Just because someone takes offense does not mean it’s obscene. If Noam Chomsky can defend “Holocaust Deniers” then I certainly can defend “homophobic content” here on MS; it’s not even close.

“If we don't believe in free speech for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.” N. Chomsky

Cee
_________________________
"it has never yet been discovered how to make man unknow his knowledge, or unthink his thoughts"

T. Paine

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#423024 - 01/23/13 03:15 PM Re: free speech vs. censorship [Re: cosmos]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3607
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Cee,
well unfortunately many times when such conversation becomes wild we have triggering and many times it is not healthy to proceed with such "wild" talks.
And offensive speech is not allowed simple because dynamics could went beyond control and it could pull a lot of negative energy.
Such environment could be everything but supportive and not pointed to healing and that is what many of us need the most.
Just my two cents.
Pero
_________________________
My story

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#423100 - 01/24/13 08:34 AM Re: free speech vs. censorship [Re: cosmos]
cosmos Offline


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 183
Loc: Puget Sound
Pero there are several good issues you bring up.

1st the use of offensive language it’s a slippery slope; first MS bans the use of offensive “homophobic” language, next because I’m I devout atheist lets ban any use of any religious symbolism; its offensive to me after all, what’s next ?

2nd let me clarify what I mean by offensive: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=422628#Post422628
Yes not just the tittle: “I wish I was sexually abused” but the posters content was offensive, as pointed out by Eric and Gary.

3rd Obscenity is typified by directed personal attacks, call someone a “f@@@” or “n@@@” or whatever that’s obscene and has no place in general discourse, let alone here, it’s also not what happened; no one made disparaging homophobic remarks towards anyone, did they?

4th the continued hijack of an offensive post to promote an agenda that’s only purpose seems to be to berate a member for the use of language that they found offensive. Everyone can be offended by something, when is it going to stop, how can you have open and honest dialog when certain speech is not allowed because someone is offended? It’s called being an adult, it’s called changing the channel, it called not reading the bible, offense is in the eye of the beholder it’s a “you problem” not the problem of MS or society as a hole. If your offended that’s your problem not mine, not MS’s, not society as a hole, if your offended do something about it, protest, give money, vote, don’t try and stifle someone’s voice because of content that offends, if you start censoring, when is going to stop, who’s going to be the offensive police, who’s going to decide what is allowed speech? When there’s nothing left to talk about but the weather don’t blame me!


Cee
_________________________
"it has never yet been discovered how to make man unknow his knowledge, or unthink his thoughts"

T. Paine

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#423102 - 01/24/13 09:21 AM Re: free speech vs. censorship [Re: cosmos]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3607
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Cee wink
I didn't want to connect your post with that thread on purposely as I've seen that talks there went a little bit "wild" and I knew why you opened this discussion when I've seen it.

I don't think that offensive language is some slippery slope. OK it is not just language, it is more than that. I like how is written in site's guidlines:

"First and foremost, adults (age 18 and up) who use the MS website must realize that this is a place that wishes to promote healing and not chaos. It is not a substitute for therapy and should not be used as a place to vent unprocessed emotions without regard to the effect doing so would have on others. It is a place where questions can be asked and stories shared for the benefit of all rather than reactions that serve to confuse, scare and rob the site of its safety."

Every one of us is sometimes fragile and could be felt offended even without particular reason. But you see flowing emotions in high energetic fashion that could attract additional responses and bring discussion into chaos is something that we all should try to avoid here. Whatever is cause such talks/writings can't be justified if there is slightest risk for disturbing survivors and their inner peace.
And if we could learn to step back and take those negative emotions out of field in try to protect others and self when we are triggered, nervous, fragile, angry and so on than we gained a lot within our healing journey. It is not easy task no matter how simple could sound.
So yes I completely agree what you are saying in your 4th point and we are on same sides. Unfortunately many times triggered persons that can't control their negative emotions need to be stopped if he/she can't "change channel" as you've said. So call it censure or not, that is something that is needed to be done in try to preserve this place as safe environment for all of us.
Keep sharing!

Pero
_________________________
My story

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#423117 - 01/24/13 01:54 PM Re: free speech vs. censorship [Re: cosmos]
cosmos Offline


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 183
Loc: Puget Sound
Pero look at this thread from the start; certain members took it upon themselves to publicly condemn another member for “homophobic” comments, wouldn’t a PM have been more appropriate, to publicly call out another member for inappropriate language especially when it seems it was genuinely written from the heart is just wrong, if not cruel, if anything our abuse should make us more understanding of each other’s problems, seeing a member is vehemently homophobic and has a major problem with it and is posting about his distress is not a reason to call him out publicly with his issues, or to call for a change in site posting guidelines and increased “adult supervision”. All of us here should know the power of silence; the power of doing what your told, never question right or wrong, shut up and take it, our abuse should show us that holding on to an un-popular belief (our abuse) is a righteous cause, no matter how sick and twisted we have become in our minds, we have to speak for those that can’t, those that are no longer here, to ensure everyone has an equal seat at the table; not “some pigs are more equal than others”.

As to a post “triggering” yes the responses to the original post triggered me, to a time and place when I was 13 and voiced a truthful but offensive opinion, no one, not even myself had the courage to stand up for what’s right. Understand I’ve already admitted both that the original opinion posted was homophobic and offensive however using the “nuclear option” in response is far worse, it’s trying to silence a lone voice, someone like ourselves, someone who knows true horror, someone who knows what being alone means.

Cee
_________________________
"it has never yet been discovered how to make man unknow his knowledge, or unthink his thoughts"

T. Paine

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