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#422741 - 01/20/13 07:22 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thanks genedebs

I am so so so sorry that you know what it is like to have your brother use you that way too. To have him be your first abuser. And like everyone here always says (and I agree) there is no hierarchy of abuse - it ALL f#cks us up. However the thing that bothers me about him being abused as well is that everything he described to me did not involve physical touch - so why did he take it to penetration with me?? He didn't learn that from his abuse.

Thank you for sharing part of your story with me/us. It does help to know that I am not the only one whose brother did this too them.

I still find it hard to say that my own brother raped me - but by your definition there is no doubt.

Quote:
I have forgiven my brother, but I still remember when I wanted to kill him.
me too.

Thanks for your kind words but I do not feel very brave - just stumbling along trying to find my way towards recovery.

Lee

PS I want to vomit too.
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#422745 - 01/20/13 08:15 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:12 PM)

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#422784 - 01/21/13 12:41 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3363
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Hey, Lee - you are processing this really well IMHO. you phrased these as questions - but i think you already know the answers:

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
The whole process really made me question my definition of CSA.

Can I call it rape when he 'only' manipulated me into giving him oral sex at 5 or is it 'just' sexual abuse?
Did my father sexually abuse us even though he didn't touch us?
Could my brothers have had a sexual relationship on an equal level even though they where 6 years apart?
How far does this pattern of CSA go?
Am I just making a big deal about nothing?


YES - it is rape - and "only" does not even belong in this sentence!!!

it IS possible for abuse to occur through words, exposure to a hostile and inappropriately sexualized atmosphere and being subjected to voyeurism - what it sounds like you had.

any time the difference between the two parties is significant - in age, power, experience, and the younger or weaker is being coerced into sexual acts, it is most likely an abusive situation. i believe most definitions for minors cite more or less than 3 years as the standard.

God only knows with the others... BUT with you - it stops!

you are NOT making a big deal out of nothing. IT IS A BIG DEAL - and IT WAS NOT NOTHING!!! just look at the toll it has taken on your life to see that.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#422785 - 01/21/13 02:32 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
The whole process really made me question my definition of CSA.

Can I call it rape when he 'only' manipulated me into giving him oral sex at 5 or is it 'just' sexual abuse?

In many countries even the legal system considers it rape. My T told me, not long ago, that my reaction to being forced to suck my foster-father's dick would these days be called "rape trauma syndrome". Yes, oral rape is rape.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Did my father sexually abuse us even though he didn't touch us?

It is very possible, yes. He exposed you to an environment that was not appropriate for your age. He failed to protect you. In my mind, that is also abuse.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Could my brothers have had a sexual relationship on an equal level even though they where 6 years apart?

No. There is a reason why just about every country in the world have age-of-consent laws. A child isn't mentally and emotionally capable of "informed consent", and consent that isn't informed is not consent. Besides, is anything EVER equal between children who are 6 years apart?

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
How far does this pattern of CSA go?

It stops with you. That is all that matters.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Am I just making a big deal about nothing?

No. If it wasn't a big deal, you'd have been able to shrug it off. The fact that you can't, and the fact that you needed to come here and discuss it with other male survivors, means it IS a big deal. You have the right to feel they way you do!
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#422828 - 01/21/13 03:06 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1510
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Can I call it rape when he 'only' manipulated me into giving him oral sex at 5 or is it 'just' sexual abuse?
Rape implies the use of physical force. But what difference does it make? Either way its affected you deeply throughout your life.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
Did my father sexually abuse us even though he didn't touch us?
I think that 'leering' can be sexual abuse as well.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
Could my brothers have had a sexual relationship on an equal level even though they where 6 years apart?
NO! As you said, 10 year olds do not have "loving sexual relationships" with ANYBODY EVER.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
How far does this pattern of CSA go?
Its sounds like its a family-wide. The less you have to do with those characters, the better.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
Am I just making a big deal about nothing?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! You brothers primary goal in speaking with you, was to convince you that it was all no big deal. Boys will be boys. BULLSHIT! Count how many ways your life was changed for the worse because of his sexual abuse. The damage to you IS a big deal.

FB, you were the winner in that meeting, not only for having the courage to do it in the first place, but for not letting him excuse himself by claiming it was just 'boyhood experimentation' or because he was 'abused' himself, or because it was 'so long ago'. Flex your muscles, beat your chest, and roar like King Kong. You did it.

Jude
_________________________
I went back to the doctor
To get another shrink.
I sit and tell him about my weekend,
But he never betrays what he thinks.
Can you see the real me, doctor?.
The Who

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#423144 - 01/24/13 07:59 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I've been re-reading your replies and I need to say thanks to Gary, Traveler, Gecko and Jude. I have no words to say how much it means to me that you guys (and everyone else who reads this)give a crap.

Traveler was right I did know the answers to those questions (they were kind of rhetorical). BUT I am so glad I asked them.

All your responses have helped validate my own thoughts and feelings about what happened to me as a small boy and have helped me to accept that 'IT WAS NOT MY FAULT'. For 30+ years I have been telling myself that I was a dirty little boy who did dirty things. I have been blaming myself. To be honest that was easier to accept, to live with than the idea that I grew up in such systemically abusive environment.

After Soccerstar's post about oral rape being officially recongised in the states I have done my own research in Australia. It does make me feel less of a whimp about the whole thing knowing that if everyone who ever did anything sexually abusive to me was convicted it would add up to roughly 70-80 years in jail. That is a big deal! I think I might cut myself some slack now when I spaceout or get depressed or angry.

IT IS NOT MY FAULT! ..... It wasn't your fault either!

Lee
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#423170 - 01/24/13 11:50 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
uptownguy Offline


Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 6
Loc: chicago
I think one thing to keep in mind is that your brother more than likely has a personality disorder. Have you confronted your folks? Surely they must have realized that your brother was not ok and should not have been left unsupervised with young children. It was their responsibility to keep you safe and they failed to do that.

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#423297 - 01/26/13 03:31 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Uptown,

I have not considered that my brother could have a personality disorder.... other than possibly pedophillia. He seems 'normal' and has friends etc. On a side note I just realised that both his wives were little, blonde, flat chested, barely legal, 18 year old girls when they got married. I remember them having to wait until their birthdays to get married. Hmmm Makes you think doesn't it.

When he abused me everyone else was in the house. It would happen early on Sunday mornings - while everyone else had a sleep in. At first he would sneak into my room (we were at opposite ends of a hall). That started when I was 3. With the doors open we could see eachother in bed and he would show/teach me stuff from his end of the hall. Then he got me to sneak into his room where he orally raped me. All while my middle brother slept in the room between us (I hope he was sleeping) and my parents were at the other end of the house.

As for my parents I did tell them when I was 11. We were at the dinner table and there was a news report on the TV about a rapist being caught and my dad said 'The stupid F##king B#itch got what she deserved' (or something very much like that). I lost it and started crying, yelled something at him and ran to my room. I refused to talk to anyone but out pastor. He came the next day and made me tell my parents. I told them what happened and that I didn't want to cause trouble for my brother because he was about to marry wife #1. So my parents did nothing. Did not say a word to my brother, did not get me counselling and we never spoke of it again. My half brother had already been caught with his pants down trying to f#ck my other brother up the arse by my mother 6 years earlier. I am still mad at my parents for listening to an 11 year old and 'not causing trouble'. I have thought about confronting them now about the neglect for my wellbeing but I honestly don't know what the point of it would be.

Lee
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#423302 - 01/26/13 04:27 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Lee,

I'm sorry they failed you so grotesquely. It's not my story but I personally would find it unforgivable.

Turned out a good guy and great dad regardless. That's something to be really proud of - something inside - that you had to work and struggle to achieve. The cruelties and neglect of your past are overspoken by the comfort you give your kids now. They're lucky to have you. Every day, guys here (and those not here but with similar stories) prove that it is possible to break the chain of cruelty. You've gone above and beyond the call in your share of that.

Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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