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#421846 - 01/11/13 08:31 AM How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex
honey Offline


Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 2
are heterosexual ???

I know a few men who are gay and suffer CSA by another man .
I wonder if CSA cause homosexuality or bisexuality or was it just a coincidence ??

Of all the men who had gone through CSA by another man , how many % usually end up as heterosexual when they grow up and settle down with a woman and family of their own ??

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#421848 - 01/11/13 09:07 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 591
Loc: VA
Let's see... I was CSA'd at age 6, and I'm straight, married (to a woman) with kids; former NHL stars Sheldon Kennedy and Theo Fleury are also married with kids; lots of guys on this site have wives, GF's, kids...

If there's any connection between male-on-male CSA and a boy's homosexuality, I suspect it's simply that the perpetrator senses and uses the boy's insecurity as yet another form of youthful vulnerability.

John

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#421852 - 01/11/13 10:40 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Suwanee Offline
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Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 695
Loc: Southeast USA
Straight.
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#421854 - 01/11/13 11:10 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 285
Loc: MO
There is a lot of data that suggests these are unrelated (homosexuality and CSA). I have seen no data on bisexuals. For myself, I am straight. I am currently in a non-sexual relationship, but I was married for more than 25 years and had 4 kids, the youngest is now 33.

I hope this helps. None of my CSA (5 different perps) did not include a male. My mother directed my photo session when I was 12 but the photographer was male. Although I do not remember CSA with this photographer, I do remember having under wear on my head and otherwise naked and photographed. I was about 4 at that time.

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#421855 - 01/11/13 11:21 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 393
Loc: west coast
Interesting question.
Likely multifactorial reasons for non heterosexuality from genetics to maternal hormonal influences, epigenetics to imprinting to honestly who the hell knows. Likely not the flip Wilson as 'Geraldine' cause tho.

I have been to one WoR and based on my other group experience I unscientific ally estimate about 4o to 50% were str8, 30 to 40% gay, 20 to 30 % ish bi and/or uncertain. And about 10% asexual or just plain done with the whole damn thing. Cuz as one of the best posts ever stated. " csa represses the persons own sense of sexuality"

I now identify as gay. But I was happily ( yet vaguely unsettled) married for years. Have great kids, great ex. Life got better when I stopped asking why and just accepted I am the most loving person to others when I gave up the guilt and shame and anger and blame.
_________________________
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#421856 - 01/11/13 11:28 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1212
Loc: Northern Ohio
honey,
It can be looked at another way.

Gay, as an identity.
Homosexuality, as a behavior.
Straight as an identity.
Hextrosexual as a behavior.

Many men struggle with same sex attraction (SSA) whether they identify as Straight or not.
A man can consider themselves Gay, yet be married with children.
Also, consider themselves Straight (married with kids or not) & seek out other men for sex.

The old gender definitions, donít seem to apply.
CSA can really make it difficult to figure out how we think of our sexual identity now, or would have been without the abuse
Men (or women) who sexually abuse boys (or girls) arenít generally interested in the victims future sexual identity development. They may not actually be knowledgeable on what that process is in a child. Just as a child doesn't know what a "spinal reflex" is, nor would the perp. But any such reaction from a boy, would be seen as the child is enjoying the interaction. And of course we know how that is used against us.

Here are a few of normal human reflexes that can occur during abuse, which the victim/abuser may interpret as willingness to the interaction.

Cremasteric reflex stimulation of the skin on the front and inner thigh retracts the testis on the same side.

Hypogastric reflex contraction of the muscles of the lower abdomen on stroking the skin on the inner surface of the thigh.

Bulbospongiosus reflex contraction of the bulbospongiosus muscle in response to a tap on the dorsum of the penis.
A lengthy definition of this can be found at this link, http://www.scribd.com/doc/29972790/Spinal-control-of-penile-erection Nowhere does it discuss sexual identity as being a factor.

Anal reflex contraction of the anal sphincter on irritation of the anal skin.

Abdominal reflexes contractions of the abdominal muscles on stimulation of the abdominal skin.

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#421858 - 01/11/13 02:36 PM . [Re: honey]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
.


Edited by Life's A Dream (01/12/13 08:52 PM)

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#421861 - 01/11/13 03:54 PM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 336
As genedebs said, the two are unrelated, at least that's what decades of science tells us.

It's like when people think that gay people are pedophiles. No, gay people are not pedophiles. Some pedophiles happen to be gay, but most are straight. Likewise, some people who have been victimized by pedophiles (or other sexual abusers) happen to be gay, while others happen to be straight.

Do victims of CSA have red hair? Well, some do, but what about it?

That said... blacken has a really good point about how gender and sexual identity can get screwed up for victims of CSA.

Bob

Bob

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#421879 - 01/11/13 10:38 PM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1285
Well, I count 4 straight and 1 gay so far.

I am gay, although I think some might argue I am straight with SSA because I do find women attractive enough to feel a sexual tide. I think I may have been fundamentally bisexual and who knows where I would have gone had not the confuser stepped into our lives. I know that one of my co-victims (a girl) hated men so much after that that she thought she might be a lesbian.

I don't buy the idea that the abuse - especially at the formative years of sexual awakening - has no effect on future sexual orientation.

It used to kill me that he could have decided the course of my sexual identity. But I then realized what really was killing me was fighting it - because it meant I was still dealing with him. Accepting my sexuality means taking it out of his hands. He just doesn't own me any more.
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#421880 - 01/11/13 11:13 PM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Jude Online   content


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1483
Loc: New England
Str8 here
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they shake their heads, they say I've changed.
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....it's life's illusions I recall, I really don't know life at all. "
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#421883 - 01/11/13 11:47 PM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3320
Loc: back in the USA
Straight, married, 3 adult kids, but with history of SSA and sexual dysfunction and confusion - for predictable and understandable reasons! i am sure that the dysfunction and SSA came from the CSA. there is a very clear and strong and obvious connection.

Lee
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sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
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and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
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#421884 - 01/12/13 12:05 AM * [Re: honey]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:01 PM)

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#421885 - 01/12/13 12:07 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6374
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: honey
are heterosexual ???

I know a few men who are gay and suffer CSA by another man .
I wonder if CSA cause homosexuality or bisexuality or was it just a coincidence ??

Of all the men who had gone through CSA by another man , how many % usually end up as heterosexual when they grow up and settle down with a woman and family of their own ??


CSA Age 7 to 14, all by older boys. Regular and frequent and "all."
Sexuality = none
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#421886 - 01/12/13 12:11 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
CloudyFalls Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 168
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Smalltown80sBoy
I knew I was gay before the CSA happened and based on what I've read and experienced I do not think the abuse had anything to do with my sexual orientation.


Like Gary, I knew I was gay before the abuse started. I really don't think that abuse turns men gay. Maybe it can cause confusion, but I think you just know if you're gay (or bi) or not. I'm sure there are statistics and studys out there that can corroborate with this.
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#421887 - 01/12/13 12:27 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: Chase Eric]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6374
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
I don't buy the idea that the abuse - especially at the formative years of sexual awakening - has no effect on future sexual orientation.


Well...it DID for me in that I was ravenously homosexually oriented as a kid. It got some strange flow of hormones et. al. going so that I was a self-declared sex addict by age 10 (the perps fully agreed). But once they were done with me, who knows...who cares!

My last trip to the PsychMD and GP MD claim that the traumatic brain development is still unknown in extent with kids, but the last scan showed abby normal stuff. They point to that as why I did not hit puberty till 15.5 years old, but was having orgasms from age 10 - on.

So if all that crap can happen from trauma and sexual exposure, why not effect orientation?

EDIT: BTW...I Still HATE all of this...with a passion!!
Find myself saying "how dare they!!!!" about 100 times a day.


Edited by Still (01/12/13 12:28 AM)
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#421889 - 01/12/13 12:37 AM * [Re: CloudyFalls]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:01 PM)

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#421893 - 01/12/13 01:28 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I know a few men who are gay and suffer CSA by another man .
I wonder if CSA cause homosexuality or bisexuality or was it just a coincidence ??


Heterosexual myself.

I wonder if more homosexuality or bisexuality men are able to admit the abuse compared to heterosexual men.

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#421896 - 01/12/13 01:45 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Dunno?

I'm primarily straight but think about guys a lot - especially if I haven't gotten laid in a while. I figured I must be bi, until I came here and learned about SSA. Confusing and unanswerable, no wayto know if I was born this way or the abuse caused it. I try not to dwell on it too much since it's part of me regardless.
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#421900 - 01/12/13 04:09 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1936
Loc: durham, north england
I think Blacken has a point here, but one other thing occurs to me.

Because recovering survivers of csa have! to be honest about their attractions and sexual feelings, while it is likely untrue that a man who experienced csa by a male is "made gay" or whatever, it is! probably true that a man who happens to be buy or homosexual is much more honest about it if they're recovering from any sort of csa simply because that is the nature of the beast.

One lady (actually a family friend), was married for 11 years before admitting both to herself and to everyone else that she was homosexual, indeed part of the reason the mariage broke down was her catagorical refusal to have children.

She said she always assumed that there was something wrong with her being attracted to other women, and went through the full mariage thing with a fellow because it was expected. had she considdered the point with a little more clarity, as in fact she did later, she'd have realized that she was homosexuall.

It is certainly true I've noticed a lot more guys on this board being far more open about their preferences than would be usual anywhere else, so I wonder if that is a factor.

Myself, I often actually wish I was attracted to men, since my genophobia and problems with touch are not half as crytical with other guys as with women (a result of being victimized by girls), but I'm genuinely not.

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#421904 - 01/12/13 06:30 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
I'm straight.

I'm among those who believe that if you look at the profile of the kind of boy predators go after (loner, insecure, socially awkward, etc), you'll find that a disproportionate number of gay boys fit that profile. The unseen victims of homophobia...
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#421913 - 01/12/13 09:52 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
I've said this before- I don't think any simple hetero/homo sexual categorization is useful early or ever when there are so many complicating factors for survivors of sexual abuse.

Normal sexual development gets derailed by CSA. My own wiring and Sexualization were tangled and damaged by what happened to me.

Addiction, shame and isolation further complicated this. When I acted out sexually in later years, my sexuality got further confused and tangled.

Ultimately I had to untangle my entire sexual development and learn to get some of my needs met in healthy ways, including learning intimacy. Deep inside, I still struggle with anger and a desire to control or even use others - deeply associated with my abuse.
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#421915 - 01/12/13 10:31 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
LazyPirate Offline


Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 106
Loc: Ontario
I think it's different for everyone (potentially). I was abused by a male, but turned out straight. I think for some the opposite may be true. For some, they knew they were gay before the CSA... So it's a crap shoot.
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#421925 - 01/12/13 03:10 PM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Letourski Offline


Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
I agree with ChaseEric. I don't believe that sexual abuse has no effect on our sexual identity. Everyhing we experience affects our brain wiring, and it's that wiring that makes up who we are.
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#421927 - 01/12/13 03:25 PM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: Letourski]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1556
I agree-it creates confusion as to who we are--some experts have spoken about sexual imprinting can impact how we think--it may not change our sexuality but can wreak havoc--believing acts of abuser will be repeated by the child abused later in life--trying to undo or take control of the abuse--with no emotional or sensual feelings derived from the act-it is the sexual act and not an expression of a sexual identity.

http://www.straightguise.com/default.asp?id=1315

And A. Ali has stated the following:

It is important to recognize how abuse imprints the soul, because many people tend to think that it is mostly a question of repression that needs to be undone and dealt with. This neglects the structuring effects of such powerful impressions, structuring that becomes part of the victimís identity and character. This means that to learn to fully be free from such history one needs to work on the structures that have developed throughout this abusive history and learn to disidentify from them, or bring them to a degree of flexibility and openness.

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#422044 - 01/14/13 06:30 AM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
A270465 Offline


Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 49
Loc: SE Mich
Bi here... but confused on the SSA thing that I never really 'heard' of b4 recently so maybe str8 w/ SSA.
Still confused myself at 34.
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#422277 - 01/16/13 04:18 PM Re: How many male survivors who were CSA are heterosex [Re: honey]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 336
I've been thinking about this question, and here's what bothers me about it. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like it's posed in a funny way, as if gayness needs to be explained or somehow blamed on CSA. And I don't like that idea. I think gayness is fine. Straightness is fine. But then there's the whole web of attraction and specific things that people like, all of which it seems depends on things in your life or the way you were wired. So I guess it makes sense that CSA has an impact on a person's sexual identity. Plus, the confusion from CSA can make everything muddy. It's all so fucked up and chaotic to me.

Anyway, this probably isn't helpful to anyone so far, but consider this: Listen to Dan Savage (Savage love podcast) for a positive and sometimes wrenching point of view on sexuality. Maybe what's true for me isn't true for anyone else, and that could go the same for all of us, but it's important that we don't live in shame and humiliation about who we are, what we are or what we like or are attracted to. No matter what we are attracted to. And Dan Savage is nothing if not accepting. That doesn't mean he accepts abuse, he doesn't. He holds people accountable. He demands honesty and decency. He wants NO ONE to be abused/used or whatever.

So that's my recommendation. I plan on listening to the latest podcast later today.

Bob

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