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#421838 - 01/11/13 05:31 AM Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS
TW16 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 159
Loc: Utah
I have a friend who is deeply in love and obsessed with me. We have known each other for a little over two years. When we first met, we did end up having sex, but afterwards we decided not to see or talk to each other after being told to do so by our respective church leaders. Eventually I decided to move out of state to minimize the chances of us seeing each other and possibly having sex again.

This past October the pressure got the best of me, and I called my friend. He told me that he had looked me up on Face Book and wanted to contact me, but was afraid to do so. After several conversations, we decided to be boyfriends, and when I went back home--due to a death in my family--we had sex again two more times that weekend.

My friend and I have talked since I have returned home. I told him that I am very confused and don't know what I want. Though he understands why I don't want to pursue a relationship with him, he says that he is deeply in love with me. He even told me and his church leader that he wants to save up enough money to come visit me so that we could have sex again. He says he constantly thinks of me and obsesses over my FB picture and other pictures of me as well. I told him that as much as I would want to see him and have sex, I am not sure if I would because I don't want to go against our religious beliefs. I do love and care about my friend a lot, but my feelings for him are not nearly as strong as his feelings are for me. And he knows how I feel about him. As much as it will hurt the two of us, he would respect my decision to maintain my beliefs and not pursue a relationship with him.

One time my friend told me that he didn't love or care about me. I told him that as selfish as it is for him to use me for his gratification, I didn't-and still don't--care because I wanted to have sex with him too. And I still do want to have sex, but I am not sure if I will do it again if the opportunity presents itself.

I know this sounds selfish on my part, but I am torn over this.

TW16

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#421843 - 01/11/13 07:17 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3608
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey TW16,
you are caught into some difficult situation.
I'm sorry that you are so much confused frown
It seems that you put a lot of effort to avoid your friend (talk with church leader, moving to other state..) but somehow it looks like it wasn't enough.
Why don't you give self more time and try to see what exactly you want from your life?
_________________________
My story

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#421859 - 01/11/13 02:40 PM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 406
Loc: west coast
When there is a disconnect between what's in your heart and what is imposed upon you, you have to ask yourself why? Am I hurting anyone including myself ? Is this something I , as an equal human being am entitled to? Is this really anyone else's business but me and the person I am relating to?

Finally, no matter what understanding you come to, you are always free to use your own wisdom to interpret the church teachings in best way for YOU.
Otherwise you are dogmatically following others preconceived notions of how you should live your life. No one should be should upon : ) And no one can truly know the mind of god but you can truly know yourself. Follow your heart.

An unrequited life is no way to LIVE.


Edited by 1lifenow (01/11/13 02:42 PM)
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#421871 - 01/11/13 06:18 PM * [Re: TW16]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:00 PM)

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#421882 - 01/11/13 11:44 PM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1529
Loc: New England
Hi TW16,

One of the sad realities of life is that sometimes we have to choose between two things that we want. In this case, between pursuing a relationship with this man, or staying committed to the teachings of you church. It seems you can't have both. That is further complicated by the fact that he wants a romantic relationship, and you seem to basicly be interested in sex.

Now I am no expert on relationships. Its a struggle for me too. But I suggest that you reframe the situation a bit. You can break it down into three questions:

1) Are you Gay or straight? That is not a question of choice, its about your basic makeup as a man.
2) What is the future of this relationship?
3) Are you willing to leave your church teachings behind to embrace the a gay sexual orientation?

From your post it seems these are the general answers:

First you seem to recognize that you have a strong attraction to men, and not to women. This might tell you something about your sexual orientation.
Second, this fellow is in love with you, but you're only in "lust" with him. This might tell you something about the future of this relationship.
Third, your church's teachings oppose same sex relationships, but you have already violated that in your heart and your actions. This might tell you something about your commitment to church teachings.

I'm not intending to steer you in one direction or another. Just trying to help make the situation simpler to look at. I hope this helps a bit.

Jude
_________________________
Well, I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down.
Tom Petty

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#421902 - 01/12/13 05:33 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
TW16 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 159
Loc: Utah
Thanks for the feedback.

As I have thought about this situation, read your posts, and talked with my friend, I am getting the impression the my friend and I would rather keep,our religious standards and possibly go our own ways.

TW

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#421907 - 01/12/13 07:23 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Hm so „tough” decision is to keep everything unchanged, suppress your deepest desires and shield everything with religion?
There is no way that this is good decision.
The most troublesome part is your suppression upon yourself. I would expect that you will have some serious psychological problems during course of time no matter what your religious or any other believes are because you are living in HUGE denial and one big integral part of yourself is locked…you have time bomb inside yourself…
To get out of this situation would mean real change and fight and that is not easy so I can understand why you prefer to go old way.

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#421945 - 01/12/13 10:16 PM * [Re: TW16]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:02 PM)

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#422067 - 01/14/13 01:41 PM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
SmartShadow Offline


Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 135
Loc: Washington State
I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man then in the eye of God.

I am not religious but I belive in God. and my love for God trumps religion and man as the only relationship that is eternal..

Not simple stuff.

I would ask God what he thinks.

His answer may help you understand this on a deeper level.


Edited by SmartShadow (01/14/13 01:50 PM)

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#422364 - 01/17/13 10:44 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 406
Loc: west coast
And so it comes full circle.

Didn't Joseph Smith ask God what to do about the woman who would become his first plural wife. The answer was clear to him. How many women today would accept a 'new' revelation that God spoke directly with their husband. He says if she does not either accept this or believe this to be true, she would face an eternity of eternal damnation. Hmmm?

Morality is a function of the times we live. Most Americans at the founding of the nation believed in slavery and most Dr's did not wash their hands. Genetic diseases was " God's" will. That made sense for the time. Yet we somehow with respect to this issue allow the views of bronze age morality written in an archaic language and re-interpreted many times to color our view of today. Look in your eyes as you look yourself in the mirror and ask if that makes sense to you.

People are entitled to believe what the will. Squandering your true self for an idealized version of what "should be" is something you are free to do. It just seems sad in view of a childhood already diminished by CSA. iMHO it seems as an adult we survivors need to take every opportunity to live an authentic life.

I wish you well.
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#422431 - 01/17/13 06:55 PM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
I might be a little blunt TW16, but bear with me since I'm lucky enough to live in a very gay community and see this all the time.

First, this church, their "leaders" and their dogma are causing you unnecessary distress. Put another way, as I've so often heard in 12-step meetings, suffering is optional. (Similarly, you'll hear a lot of the members talking about taking a "geographic cure", like you did, and they found they were only running from themselves).


Secondly - as others have expressed already - you could make some very good or some very bad decisions right now. You could marry a woman thinking it would "cure" you. It won't and you don't need to be "cured". You'll be living a lie, spending your waking hours trying to hide who you are. At its worst, you'll become like so many politicians who rabidly denounce homosexuals only to be caught with their pants down in an airport restroom. I mean, c'mon, sex in a public restroom? You want to reduce yourself to that?

God forbid - and I mean that with all sincerity - you have children with this woman and then finally, one day when you've matured a bit, you decide to come out. Of course she's going to feel betrayed. And she'd be right.

I mentioned I see this all the time. I live in a tourist area. There are men who sneak off from their wife and kids back in the hotel to make a quick, desperate hookup. It's pathetic...especially in 2013.


Third, as a CSA survivor, you've read the posts about those of us with chemical dependency problems, who use it to cope. imo, that already makes you more of a risk for developing that problem. Now you're going to add the pressure of hiding your sexuality? I see plenty of unhappy, closeted drunks all the time.


TW16, I don't mean to come off as a complete jackass. But sometimes I see someone who needs a good, swift, brotherly kick in the butt.


Let me add something about my life. I didn't come completely out until I was your age. But at least I came out. And, yeah, I've dealt with threats, harassment, etc., because of who I am. But I'm stronger and more confident for it. And that's a course of over 25 years! I've paved the way for you so you don't have it as hard as I did. Yeah, I sound like a parent now. So be it. And a lot of people even further back - let's talk about those who endured beatings and arrests by the NYPD in the 1950s-60s - have paved the way, too. We sure as hell didn't bleed (or, as college student Matthew Shepard and others did, die) so our brothers and sisters could go on hiding. You owe it to yourself...AND them. Shame on you - I mean it - if you squander their sacrifices.

Assuming you're, say, in Seattle, you've got some of the greatest gay resources in the country. I can guarantee that as you become involved in a gay community you'll make friends - possibly boyfriends - and even religious friends who just happen to be gay. But you won't be isolated as you are now.

Thank you for sharing your dilemmas TW. If I was rough on you - and, yeah, I was - it's because I have a difficult time watching someone waste his personal resources over something which, today, there is no reason to waste. You're much, much better than that.

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#422432 - 01/17/13 07:05 PM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Just to moderate my above post, TW. Believe me, I understand you feel conflicted. That's probably because you also feel isolated. And you're among a group of guys who have extensive experience with that. You can get out of it. But it's your choice.

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#422436 - 01/17/13 07:32 PM * [Re: 1lifenow]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:08 PM)

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#422440 - 01/17/13 07:54 PM * [Re: TW16]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:08 PM)

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#422468 - 01/18/13 12:00 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Good heavens, Gary. Honors thesis? You mean you're SMART?

I had no idea. <duckin'>

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#422488 - 01/18/13 04:56 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
I have to admit this thread bothered me enough that it's a reason – aside from the usual insomnia – I'm still up at this hour.

For one, here's a possible future for you:
http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne

It's basic psychology. These guys hate their sexuality so much they've gone to extremes to hide it. But eventually it all, pardon the pun, comes out.


For another, a more serious note on which I believe I have the right to harp. Why did I stand up to a redneck neighbor, right on his own doorstep, over 20 years ago? He could have really worked me over for trespassing on his property. Why did I confront one of the most prominent business families in our town when their teenagers would ride by my house shouting, "Faggot. We're gonna f**king kill you!" Their attorneys really could have worked me over.

I could have hid, lived in shame. I could have tried to pretend I was straight. Like so many of us, I was sick of being pushed around. And I didn't really care if it meant I got a bloody nose. Minor compared to the people who have been murdered. I was that sick of it. I pushed back. When I did, it stopped.

I marched in front of a homophobic megachurch, right in front of the TV cameras. Ah, but what if my clients saw me? If they have a problem with it, I don't want them as clients.


And, honestly, it's been doubly tough living with HIV (over 20 years). Same question. Do I come out? Damn right. I gave up hiding ages ago.


Perhaps then you can understand why my patience is tested when someone wants to stay in hiding because of a few bigoted, controlling church elders using their narrow interpretations to run the show.

If we were in line at 7-Eleven and a redneck bigot started harassing me for being a "fag", what would you do? Would you, my brother, stand up to him? Or would you let him beat me to a bloody pulp because, otherwise, someone might think you're a homosexual? But, heck, your "straightness" would be intact, right?

You do what you feel is right. But I promise you, I'm just arrogant enough to believe my harsh words will stick with you.

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#422489 - 01/18/13 05:04 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3608
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey (((Lancer))) you are our HERO smile !

Pero
_________________________
My story

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#422547 - 01/18/13 06:17 PM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 08:49 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#422659 - 01/19/13 07:48 PM * [Re: Lancer]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:10 PM)

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#422661 - 01/19/13 08:11 PM * [Re: TW16]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:10 PM)

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#423329 - 01/27/13 12:25 AM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
SmartShadow Offline


Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 135
Loc: Washington State
I have found, for me, that this struggle can not be separated in to the spiritual and the "more relivent". I have also found a good deal of value in the struggle. That is the right to be where I am at today and the right to take my time to grow, learn and understand what it all means to me.

I think my last post, on page one, was a reaction to what felt like an unreasonable amount of pressure for TW16 to reconsider his "current" understanding and decision. I am not at odds anyone's opinion, only the lack of support for his choice. I think this is a difiacult decision and one he believes is best for him at this time. He may change his mind at some point, but I feel he deserves our support regardless of what he decides.


Originally Posted By: TW16
Thanks for the feedback.

As I have thought about this situation, read your posts, and talked with my friend, I am getting the impression the my friend and I would rather keep,our religious standards and possibly go our own ways.

TW


I think we must value the person and there process enught to let them come to there own conclusions. I don't think any of this has to do with homophobia. I do understand the pain caused by homophobia. I have delt with this pain on a deeply personally level over the years and I know ignorance and hate are behind it. May we never fall into such a trap ourselves.

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#429322 - 03/27/13 07:32 PM Re: Tough decision **POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: TW16]
shalom Offline


Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 6
Hi TW, I realize this is an older thread, so I don't know if you will see my comment, but I just wanted to let you know that I empathize with your struggle. I have struggled a lot over my faith and sexuality as well and though I am beginning to find peace over it, it remains a struggle at times. I really hope that you can find peace and that all will work out as would be best for you.

Take care,
shalom

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