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#421206 - 01/06/13 01:22 AM Re: What Makes a Man? New insights on a "nancy" boy... [Re: Chase Eric]
SoccerStar Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
I thought this website exists precisely because we are offended. And not weak for it.


Edited by SoccerStar (01/06/13 01:34 AM)
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#421216 - 01/06/13 02:23 AM * [Re: Chase Eric]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:53 PM)

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#421232 - 01/06/13 09:03 AM Re: What Makes a Man? New insights on a "nancy" boy... [Re: Chase Eric]
SamV Offline
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Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5924
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
This topic focuses on us, the survivor, as advertising for abuse because he was too feminine, raised in a one parent house or identified as one gender or another. These are all fine points that have value in understanding the internal workings of our thoughts and feelings, but in my opinion, does not address the issue. Whether we advertise as a male or female with some or all the accouterments is not what caused the abuse.

We were attacked because of poor personal boundaries and willful predatory activities. These people, I say that tongue-in-cheek, have perpetrated dominative abuse, felonious stampeding over our God and man mandated right to safety, comfort and dare I say, encouragement. Abuse happens because these people had an opportunity to relive their own abuse history, because they wanted to try something, because their peers told them, because they felt it was right for them to abuse or whatever their motivation. This abuse, was done TO us, whether we wore short shorts or a suit of armor. They saw in us an opportunity and instead of being shocked about those thoughts and getting help like we have, they took advantage of and severely handicapped innocent, caring, naive children and young men. They accosted, they abused, they absconded, they attacked us.

Our little, uncertain selves at 7 or 27, our features, our manner of communication, how we dressed and walked are not to be ashamed of or counted as a weakness. Uncertain people need support and encouragement, praise for success and celebration for victories.
We were abused because of their predilection for their CRIMINAL intentions to satiate cravings that created this harm.

Fellow survivors, continue to find ways to prevent abuse and keep safe, but realize that these people were not encouraged to abuse us, rather that they had opportunity and took it. Were we surrounded by loving, supportive, protecting people, be them true friends, siblings, parent or parents, teachers, police or co workers we would not have been taken advantage of and abused. This trauma in our life was not created or sustained by us, we were just innocents that were took in by a dominant, overwhelming force.
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#421265 - 01/06/13 03:24 PM Re: What Makes a Man? New insights on a "nancy" boy... [Re: Chase Eric]
Chase Eric Offline
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Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1201
This thread has taken an unexpected turn, but interestingly enough still goes back to the question "what makes a man?".

Originally Posted By: ntlsaved
...a female can Not raise a boy to be a man regardless what people say.

Hmmm. So let's see then - Bill Clinton is not a man. Neither is Barack Obama. Or Jack Nicholson. Or that little wimp Alex "A-Rod" Rodriguez. Or Samuel L. Jackson. Or Laird Hamilton (I'm a surfer - what can I say smile ). Or Jon Stewart. Or Jay-Z. I'll stop here because quite frankly I could fill a page with exceptions to your rule.

I respect what you have to contribute, ntlsaved, and appreciate the good in many of the things you say. But I admit cringing when I read this. As much as I don't like to see ANYONE taken to task over what they say here, absolute statements like that tend to be lightening rods and are almost guaranteed to push buttons. So you probably shouldn't be surprised at the backlash. Many of us here have dealt with similar judgmental proclamations and you don't have to look very far to see what I mean. And as far as same-sex parenting, the gay couple I know in my own neighborhood have raised two terrific boys (who are both heterosexual - not good nor bad but certainly dispels another myth from a similar line of conservative reasoning). I suspect they will ultimately emerge with far less dysfunction than I did from my own very loving - yet conventional - parents.

Originally Posted By: Gary
This traditional family crap needs to go. Many survivors came from so-called traditional families and were in many cases abused by the very people who were supposed to be teaching them proper gender whatever. We do great harm by perpetuating outdated stereotypes that are easily refuted by countless studies and simply by looking around and observing with our own eyes.

That entire post, Gary, strikes a solid harmonic with my own thoughts. And I suspect that many of the agents promoting those traditional tenets in the most conservative organizations - from the Catholic Church to the Boy Scouts of America - have collectively visited more harm on children than single or same-sex parents ever have. Furthermore, in a level of hypocrisy I still cannot get my thoughts around, these same organizations protect and essentially perpetrate the criminality within their ranks while attacking single and same-sex parenting as a greater evil.

Meanwhile, back on topic...

Originally Posted By: Sam
This trauma in our life was not created or sustained by us, we were just innocents that were took in by a dominant, overwhelming force.

Thank you so much for this, Sam. I look back and, yes, I know this. I wish I knew it back when it all happened.

Originally Posted By: Me! smile
I felt like a girl during the abuse years

I suppose it makes more sense to say I felt "girlish". I didn't sit around thinking I was truly a girl, but I certainly felt like a magnet for more mature males, certainly a fear well founded on established precedence. My abuser made no secret that he liked my soft skin, delicate build, curved back, and "cute bottom" - really all the things you'd associate with girls instead of guys. I was the boy he picked among a LOT of 7-8 year old girls - I suppose it's no wonder I felt like just another girl. And all through the abuse, even though I knew he was wrong, I was absolutely convinced I was just as wrong for somehow enticing him. I can't begin to say how deeply these feelings have infiltrated every aspect of my life. Even today, if someone does something mean or unfair to me, I always look first to myself for fixing blame: What did I do to bring that on? Is that not messed up or what? My abuser - God I should just finally say his name! - took away all the tools I needed to define myself as a MAN in this world. He took away my manhood simply by making me feel convinced I was girlish - engaged me in the kind of sexual interplay that defined me in that role in the most intimate and physical sense, made me own the responses I was powerless to control or even understand, and then blamed me for the physical enticement he was simply unable to resist.

Yes - I know now that it is not the hair or the brawny build that defines a man - although if you asked little Eirik, he'd argue that. And I wouldn't blame him. But I'm an adult now. I look back at it all and see that my abuser was not the man that I was. Yeah, I get that. He was weak, he lacked any inner strength to stem the tide of his sexual desires. And I was navigating this labyrinth alone, all while trying my best to protect the girls including my little sister, and trying to keep unfathomable secrets - thinking I was saving the sensibilities of the neighborhood, saving our very hides. I get it all, now. Yet the role I was forced to play has worn deep grooves in my heart and they won't go away. They don't heal or fill in as you get older - they just stay there. Every time I try to drive out of those ruts I cannot - despite the traction I would expect my adult insights to give me.


Edited by Chase Eric (01/06/13 03:54 PM)
Edit Reason: Removed the name of my abuser - his other victims may not appreciate it
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#421268 - 01/06/13 03:36 PM Re: What Makes a Man? New insights on a "nancy" boy... [Re: Chase Eric]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
I'll add my support to the notion that it was the failings of our guardians that made us prey to the predators that abused us.

I know for a fact that if my mom and dad had loved me the way I needed to be loved, and included me in their lives, and participated in my life, that I would not have fallen into the arms of my cousin 5 years older - because I sought the love and attention that he gave me that my parents would not.

And nltsaved - you stepped in it again, I see. Please be careful with your declarative, bold statements that have no bearing on the rest of our experiences and lives. History is replete with "non traditional" families, the "nuclear/traditional" is a recent invention, less than 70 years old.

As for "what makes a man"? Here's my 2 cents - Humans are the most adaptable species on the planet, capable of inventing and creating nearly anything we desire. As a result, this notion of "man" (aside from the biological) can be left for us to invent for ourselves.

There is no "normal" when the potential for variation and creativity is taken into account.

Each of us is uniquely different, and perhaps some day, humanity will see that attempting to shove people into boxes with labels has been a very detrimental undertaking, and has not resulted in anything beneficial; .. has it?

It is the people who break the molds; who step outside of the boxes and labels imposed on them that change history, and alter the evolutionary course of humankind.

D

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-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#421290 - 01/06/13 07:01 PM * [Re: Chase Eric]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:54 PM)

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#421293 - 01/06/13 07:26 PM * [Re: Magellan]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:54 PM)

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#421324 - 01/06/13 11:56 PM Re: What Makes a Man? New insights on a "nancy" boy... [Re: Chase Eric]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
Don't really care if you guys agree with me or not . If you do not want an OPINION
Than do not ask for it . I can make what ever statement i want Period .


There's so much more would love to say but it will only cause drama
But I will say I do not voice my opinion on topics that I know will cause drama
Such as a two parent gay household or gay marriage or any of that
Those are topics I will stay away from
but in general all I try to do is give my honest opinion
no one said you had to like it
so as far as saying try not to talk about this or that is absurd.

I guess as long as everyone agrees with one another it is okay
But boy do not let someone's opinion that you do not agree with
Come into the topic of discussion then all rights of freedom of speech go out the window

So whatever I will agree to disagree

I almost forgot about the comment a female cannot raise a boy into a man

Did you seriously believe that I was talking a bout it not being a possibility
Because clearly females do raise boys and they do become grown
All I was trying to convey is their mentality will be different
The same as if a man raises a female
They would probably be more into sports or do more manly type things this argument is completely asinine. If you want to get that damn detailed into stuff
giving a list off names of all men who have been raised by a female is completely
Unnecessary I did not know I would have to explain every piece of this opinion
But I guess if it would've been in line with everybody else's thinking
it would be okay




Edited by nltsaved (01/07/13 12:04 AM)
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#421329 - 01/07/13 12:25 AM Re: What Makes a Man? New insights on a "nancy" boy... [Re: Chase Eric]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
There's a saying among us filmmakers - "Don't insult your audience".

IE: If you know the stove is hot, then don't touch it.

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#421334 - 01/07/13 12:38 AM Re: What Makes a Man? New insights on a "nancy" boy... [Re: Chase Eric]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
And this yo your list

"Don't ask for an opinion if you do not want feed back "
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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