Newest Members
Lumpy, squeekinby, rhyoung, Jefferson22, OxfordArms
12369 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
freddie (65), Max10 (56), Medos (46), PJinLB (47), TheWookinizer (27), tofeno (40)
Who's Online
8 registered (1islandboy, 6 invisible), 25 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12369 Members
74 Forums
63579 Topics
444200 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#421051 - 01/04/13 11:45 PM Was This Abuse?
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1530
Loc: New England
Over the holidays I had the chance to sit down and talk with my oldest sons aged 25, 27, 29. I disclosed my CSA to them which was generally a good experience for me and them. I also asked them directly if anyone ever touched them inappropriately when they were boys. They all said no, but then they all told me about an experience they had at an all boys sleep-away summer camp that made them uncomfortable.

The camp was on a lake, and the kids lived in cabins there. There were no showers, just a latrine. The kids went swimming every day....and were required to go naked. The adult men and teenaged counselors were naked with them. No one ever touched my boys, but this practice was never disclosed to the parents.

When they told me this my throat got tight and my stomach began to turn over, but I kept my composure. I keep thinking about this.......I know its fairly normal for guys hiking and camping in the wild to skinny dip when they have the chance. I've done that myself. But this was probably 60-75 prepubescent boys with about a dozen teenagers, and half a dozen grown men, swiming naked every day. If I had known this was their practice I never would have sent my boys there. I asked them why they didn't tell me about this at the time and they couldn't remember.

Am I making too much of this? I know I'm more sensitive and suspicious then most fathers because of my own past. But man this just isn't sitting well with me. Anyone have a similar experience?
_________________________
Well, I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down.
Tom Petty

Top
#421053 - 01/05/13 12:01 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3608
Loc: South-East Europe
Yes, Jude, that was very very bad procedure imposed by more than troublesome people, your guts are correct. You know Sandusky said that he only took showers with boys...

-----trigger warning---I'm talking about similar experience that I've been read about-----

I've read somewhere similar post about some group therapy dealing with CSA, body image and so on for males. If I remember correctly T brought group to swimming-pool and told them to get naked and get in water, he joined too.
Everyone of them should get into water showing himself toward group and saying something about own body. It was terrible awkward situation and guy who wrote it was more than uneasy waiting for his turn, he couldn't do it and he was felt like abused.

And yeah T guy has had hard-on all time long.....


Pero
_________________________
My story

Top
#421054 - 01/05/13 12:02 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
WRR Offline


Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 5
Loc: Texas
Not a similar experience, but I'd call it abuse. I'd go through the roof over it myself, so I don't think you're making too much of it at all. A decision among similar age friends to skinny dip for fun is miles away from boys being required to go naked with teens and grown men present (and also naked). I would be surprised if some of the boys weren't abused with that going on. That camp should be reported (if it still operates, though I realize this event was years ago). Also, abuse can be committed underwater if a boy is next to another person, without anybody else necessarily knowing it. That aspect, I do have experience with, as a boy. I'm sorry that happened to any of those boys, but relieved your sons weren't directly harmed.
_________________________
- W.R.R.
@AsAshesScatter
AsAshesScatter.com

Top
#421058 - 01/05/13 12:49 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Bathing suits were only invented, what, 90 years ago? For thousands of years people of all ages swam naked together. Nude swim in gym class and at YMCAs was apparently commonplace until the late 1960s. It is not inherently damaging, and if there were no contact or other inappropriate behavior I for one would not class it as abuse. Embarrassing, maybe.
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

Top
#421070 - 01/05/13 01:47 AM * [Re: Jude]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:49 PM)

Top
#421076 - 01/05/13 02:15 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
traveler Online   confused
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3399
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Originally Posted By: Jude
I disclosed my CSA to them which was generally a good experience for me and them.
...
they all told me about an experience they had at an all boys sleep-away summer camp that made them uncomfortable.
...
Am I making too much of this? I know I'm more sensitive and suspicious then most fathers because of my own past. But man this just isn't sitting well with me. Anyone have a similar experience?


Jude - so glad that your talk with your sons was positive.

that story would have triggered me in a major way, too. i don't think you are making too much of it. my experiences in locker rooms, communal showers and scout camps in my middle-hi school years make me very wary of such situations. the compulsory nature of it and the fact that there were adults, teens and pre-pubescent boys all together makes it so open to abuse - or if nothing else - triggering reactions in boys who may have already been abused. not to mention the unfair and harmful effects of the inevitable comparisons and jokes and put-downs. it is totally different when it is voluntary - all-one-age and free of pressure.

i just returned from several days at a beach resort (in a tropical area of Asia) and while there observed a family that was letting their 5-yr-old(?) son swim nude in the pool. there were non-family members present - including several older adult males of western origin - and it gave me the creeps to see them all there in the pool together. maybe i am the one with the problem - thinking such things - but i don't think you can be too careful!

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#421093 - 01/05/13 05:37 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
LazyPirate Offline


Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 106
Loc: Ontario
The fact that it was mandatory to swim naked... & not disclosed to the parents, seems to make it a situation ripe for abuse in my books. Who knows what could have happened that your boys didn't know about!?!?

Just very glad that yours returned home unharmed & happy that you had a good talk with them.
_________________________
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

Top
#421115 - 01/05/13 08:24 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
Aptrick Offline


Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
It sounds like the perfect opportunity for someone(s) to pick and chose victims.

Top
#421120 - 01/05/13 10:29 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
Suwanee Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 719
Loc: Southeast USA
Wow, this one really gives me mixed feelings---those who know my story will understand my trepidation about camps.

I don't necessarily think the act of swimming naked is abuse, but the compulsory nature of it should be construed as an abuse of power with or without an SA component. Despite my history with camp, I never encountered a situation where naked swimming was required.

After football, baseball or swim practice, communal showers were the norm, but we were all the same age...give or take. No adult EVER showered with us. Like Matt said, naked group showers were common at the YMCA until the 60s. In many other countries---Iceland comes to mind require a fully-naked shower in a gender, but not age-segregated shower before entering many of the hot springs. Those who seemed most embarrassed were American, Canadian, and British tourists. Been there, done that as a teen...

My concern would be that a perp could capitalize on a supposedly non-sexual event and use it to his advantage. I know there are a few well-known instances of group abuse, but in my experience, it was more covert which casts more suspicion on what happens before and after the naked swim---when there isn't an audience. In other words, it could "draw out" the perp(s) in attendance.

I'm thankful nothing else untoward happened to your kids.
_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

Top
#421199 - 01/06/13 12:43 AM Re: Was This Abuse? [Re: Jude]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Jude
The kids went swimming every day....and were required to go naked. The adult men and teenaged counselors were naked with them.

Am I making too much of this?


Hell no! Even if nothing else was going on it still would be totally wrong. What valid purpose could they have?

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.