Certainly not taken as that. But the zebra analogy is an interesting one. The truth to that - if there is one - rests in heads other than our own. We can all go back and forth with our own hypotheses but in the end, the answers are beyond us. I can only guess why my own "big brother" molested me. And while I'm quite sure there was a powerful elixir of sexual attraction, many truths are not as simple as we imagine them to be.

That is precisely why I want to talk with him. It is my next project - to confront him and ask him why. To judge for myself the veracity of his answers. He was a confused, misguided young man. He may have had less control over how sick he was than I might have thought. So I'm not interested in rubbing his face in it. I only want to know why. He can never repay what he did to me and my sister and the whole collective of little girls who are now grown women, likely still dealing with the secrets and shame he visited upon them. Nothing he can do will ever erase that, but his head still floats an entire half of the memories of an albeit one-way sexual "relationship" we had - with thoughts and perspectives that he has never shared.

He made me his "girlfriend?" Well then he owes me a part of his soul. And I intend to collect.

This is strange timing for me...that you are bringing this up now. I've been stuck in "how dare they?!!" Better put: "HOW FKG DARE THEY??? HOW DARE YOU DO THAT TO ME!?!?!"

I've openly forgiven them, but I still want to ask them that. I NEED to know. I NEED to know in the worst way!

I've not confronted the older boys yet. They are the ones. I want to talk to them and ask them SO many questions and let them know I'm here and I have not forgotten. Time did not save them from memory or God's view. I NEED to tell them that being 12-18yrs-old was not an excuse. My silence ought not ever be interpreted as an acquittal. That they are damned if they don't repent and ask God for forgiveness --- weather they believe in him or not, I get to proclaim MY deal. I get to hold them accountable! I get to review, judge and forgive.

Given the evil I saw first-hand with Dean, John, Mark and Jeffrey, I can guess that any still alive will be slain by a proclamation of forgiveness.

And after I tell them I forgive them, wish them well (yes, wish them well), I can turn my back on them and walk away...never to hold them in any contempt again.

I don't envy you with this project, but I truly hope you can derive everything you need and more.

Having just seen the movie Les Mis, this is uncanny. Valjean's ultimate strength was his ability to forgive, and Javert's downfall was his inability to do so. I saw the story as a battle between forgiveness and intransigence. A similar theme was echoed in Schindler's List, where Oscar Schindler tells Goeth that while killing and beating Jews is great sport and feeds the sense of power, the ultimate power was when "we have every justification to kill, and yet we forgive. THAT'S power."

It's an under-rated realization that we are truly our own harshest judges. I don't need to condemn or castigate my abuser - all I need is to show him that I have never forgotten - that my sister has never forgotten - that so many women have almost certainly never forgotten. I am quite convinced that his conscience is a more powerful and less forgiving judge than I could ever be. If it is not, then nothing I say would matter anyways.

Whoa! I haven't looked at this thread for a while and now it HAS been hijacked. Lets get back to the point gentlemen....What makes a Man? What definition can we make that is both inclusive and accurate? Here are a few possibilities:

"I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.-Vince Lombardi

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom." -George S. Patton

"The value of a man should be seen in what he gives and not in what he is able to receive." -Albert Einstein

"God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time." -Robin Williams (Just for laughs)

Guys,

I think what should be said is that collectively WE were wounded by our rape or abuse to the point that our male identity was threatened. Some of us were denied rights of passage or entrance into manhood by our painful violations. Others of us lost the unique pride of self or perhaps the confidence in our maleness which denied us our unique male selves. Men who do not carry the scars inflicted by these violations lack a certain fear, tread with no caution, and those who are gay seem to be very freely so, lacking any doubt about who they are, what they are, and what they are supposed to do and with whom they are supposed to do it. I spent half my life trying to be straight and the other half being ashamed of liking boys hell...by the time I made my peace with it I had missed at least ten years of possible depravity and sexual hi jinx. As it is I wound up being a very inexperienced middle aged guy who has spent (literally) thousands and thousands of dollars learning what every one else seems to know...that If I like it, no one else's opinion really matters!

I have fought long and hard to be a man, and I am a man. Be damned if anyone is gonna take that from me now...kinda jealous of all the stuff they did take from me ya know????

hope you get me.
G

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Another quote I found: "Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value." -Albert Einstein

I have always considered the former to be a measure of the latter.

I love it
Originally Posted By: Jude
Another quote I found: "Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value." -Albert Einstein