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#420259 - 12/27/12 09:47 PM * [Re: genedebs]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:38 PM)

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#420260 - 12/27/12 09:51 PM * [Re: Still]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:38 PM)

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#420276 - 12/28/12 12:34 AM Re: Unlovable [Re: genedebs]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1438
Loc: California
hi genedebs,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I know I sound like a kid when I opine for 'romantic love'. Part of it is a crazy desire to have an experience that most people who walk this planet actually get to have. I've never had it.

I also know that "falling in love" always results in "falling OUT of love" with the same person, and then the real work of the relationship begins (and when most relationships end).

I also know that genuine love for another person is pretty much selfless and unconditional, and takes a great deal of patience, compassion, forgiveness, empathy, support, understanding, and is extraordinarily difficult. And I know that there is no such thing as a perfect relationship. It doesn't exist.

What I would give to just have 1 experience of a relationship, whether it be a romantic love (temporary), or true love (temporary). I'm well aware of the failure of relationships and divorce rates. Most of the people I know have broken up with the person they thought they would spend their lives with. I know the pain (vicariously). I'm sorry you had to go through it.

And I envy you for the experience nonetheless. At least you met someone and had the experience of being absolutely thrilled that someone was willing to commit themselves to you. How affirming that must have been, and what a wonderful period of time you experienced together while you were still under the influence of romantic love. People take this for granted, and then lament it when its over. But the fact is, these experiences are what makes us human.

What I would give to just have 1 experience of mutual love. I came *this* close but blew it because as I said earlier, he discovered how much baggage I have, and bailed out just like every other person I've met.

And yes, there are stable gay relationships. I live in San Francisco, and I know a couple of couples who have been together for 30+ years. Their secret? They're best friends.

D

Originally Posted By: genedebs
Dear Magellan

First it is totally nuts (derogatory, self defeating)to think you are unloveable. It is one of the lies that we fall back on. Just like we are damaged goods, or not good enough, or worthless.

We have been taught to own our failure to be protected, our failure to "get over it", our failure to overcome the obstacles, mostly so that people who are our caregivers camn avoid their blame and guilt.

What you have described as proof of mself love are actually proof of self care. That is very important, many of us struggle with performing to tasks of self care. The more of your own self care nthat you take care of the lower your maintence requirements.

So, they don't love you. Kinsey said that unstable relationships are the only relationships that homosexuals are capable. Don't know if that is true, or even worthwhile considering. The idea of romantic love is thought by many to be an expression of loving the image of love, not a trrue expression of a connection with another person.
Love is also thought to be a solution to our own instability and saddness. (Sadness shared is half relieved). I know that while I was experience love with my now friend but no longer a member of a couple with me, I was assessed with the Beck inventory. This is a measure of the level of depression. My score was the lowest I ever achieved (Low is good). My score is usually indicative of the level of depression experienced by someone who just lost their job.

So I suggest that you may expect too much from love. I was married in 1969, we had 4 kids. After 15 years shew primarily saw me as the father of her children. She rarely expressed affection much less love. However, after another 10 years and my getting sober she threw me out of the house. Now, I should be grateful that I had 15 good years. Except when she through me out of the house she basically indicated she couldn't remember the first 10 years of our lifwe together.

I am suggesting the are all kinds of people and opportunities for relationships. Some are more stable than others. Some will be wonderful, others will be difficult. I know I can put too much on the other person in the relastioinship. This will always drive them away. But if I am too needy, need to be reassured ands reassuring them of the wonder of our relationship, this will alsao chase them away.

Unfortunately, a stable intimate, mutually satisfying relationship is a rare experience. I hope you find it, but it is a rare experience not an indication of unlovability

All I can do is share my experience. I hope it helps
_________________________
If I'm acting despondent, Please ask me if I'm eating sugar. I keep forgetting sugar makes me crazy.

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#420297 - 12/28/12 08:43 AM Re: Unlovable [Re: Magellan]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 288
Loc: MO
My brother's first wife has been in a committed relationship with her partner for about 33 years. I know that same sex relationships can be stable. However, the data is clear they are less likely to be stable than other arrangements. That wasn't the point.

I was trying to suggest that even romantic love can be less than we hope it to be. And, yes you will find a relationship that is everything you are blooking for even though as you say falling in love will result in falling out of love. That is an important perspective that I didn't know you had. You sound much better in your response than in your original post.

May God be with you in your search.

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#420298 - 12/28/12 08:45 AM Re: Unlovable [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 288
Loc: MO
Well, you get to live your life with a lot of downs along the way. THat is one of the aspects of our being CSA survivors.

Thanks for your kind words

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#420308 - 12/28/12 01:13 PM Re: Unlovable [Re: Magellan]
jbodean Offline


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 9
Magellan,

I wholehartedly agree with what genedebs said: to consider ourselves unlovable is to fall back on the lies that we've been told and sometimes continue to tell ourselves. From my own experience, in between beatings my father would say to me: you are worthless, ugly, and stupid. When you're a kid and this comes from a parent, you start to believe it. It's a lie. So is the thought that you are 'damaged goods' and that makes you unloveable. I once thought that way about myself and now I think: screw that.

When I first came out, I didn't know what I wanted, but I knew that I longed to be in a relationship. I wanted intimacy and to experience romantic love. I was so focused on my desire to find 'true love' that when I did enter into a relationship, I ignored some very important things so I could make it work. What I ended up finding was someone like my father: detached, emotional and verbally abusive, unfaithful, and dishonest. All the time I thought: 'If I can't make this relationship work then, I'm unlovable. A failure.' It took me 5 years to get up the courage to leave this man.

The relationship was toxic. It wasn't what I needed or deserved. I was willing to commit all of my energey into a relationship where I was getting very little of what I needed in return. It wasn't healthy and what I was doing was continuing the cycle of abuse as an adult. The thing that changed for me was that I was no longer willing to sacrifice what I truly desired in order to be in a relationship: mutual respect, honesty, and love.

It is possible to find those things in a relationship. I have those things now. I've been with my partner for over 12 years. The thing is, I'm not going to settle for someone where my needs are not being met. I deserve someone better. He knows all about my abuse and faults and he still sticks around. You can be loved. I'm not going to be a cliche and tell you to love yourself. But, imagine what your life could be like if you spent as much energy building yourself up as you do tearing yourself down? Next time you find yourself saying you're unloveable, try to come up with a reason why you can be loved. You've already stated one: you're attractive. Don't let the negative shit convince you of the lies we've been told.

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#420385 - 12/29/12 12:20 PM Re: Unlovable [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1438
Loc: California
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, jbodean,

Mind if I ask you something - when you first entered into that relationship that you described as toxic, how was it? While you 'ignored' some warning signs, I imagine you had a wonderful time? Did you fall in love? How long did the amazing time feeling completely connected to another human being last?

What is that like? Really, seriously. What is that like?

I have never connected completely with another human being, ever. Even dysfunctionally, or even in a toxic relationship, or even ever.

This is what this whole pain in the ass is for me. Everyone has advice to give me, but seems to ignore that I can't even MEET that person to begin with!

I have no fucking clue what the experience is like. None.

And as a result, a huge huge part of me lies dormant, comatose, unrealized, unactualized, and dying. I'm a 41 year old man who has no clue what it is like to 'fall in love', or to be in a relationship.

I've never had a spontaneous 'first kiss' with someone I really liked.

I've never been on a vacation with a boyfriend/lover.

I've never traveled with a boyfriend/lover.

I've never spent a holiday with a lover.

I've never even fucking held hands with someone! I've never experienced the excitement and vulnerability that must come with that first touch.

Can you understand my point?

So while I acknowledge you say your relationship was toxic, and you ignored warning signs, I need you and others to acknowledge that I have never had some very basic experiences that the rest of you appear to be taking for granted.

This brings me so much pain and so much grief and so much loss. I am coming to recognize how much of MYSELF I lose because I've never had this experience. It hurts so god damn much. I'm terrified that I will never know what it is to be fully human, and that I'll always be a loner, and the most significant relationship I'll ever have on this planet is with a fucking dog. This is pathetic.

People keep saying "I just haven't met the right person" - I live in fucking San Francisco, the gay mecca of the universe. Everyone else has "met someone", and has had relationships, but no ... not me. And I know I'm the common denominator in all this.

So I have to start making assumptions about ME. Because *I* am the common denominator in all this failure. There is something unlovable about me, because I swear I've met thousands of guys here, and nothing has worked out. NOTHING. And I am literally the only person *I* know that has never had a boyfriend. I am literally the ONLY ONE I KNOW (and I know thousands).

Oh, right. Just continue working my program of recovery and keep on taking care of myself (like I've been doing all my fucking life). There is no pleasure in taking care of myself all the time. It just makes for a lonely and miserable existence.
_________________________
If I'm acting despondent, Please ask me if I'm eating sugar. I keep forgetting sugar makes me crazy.

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#420389 - 12/29/12 12:42 PM Re: Unlovable [Re: Magellan]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
Magellan.

I get it.

just change boyfriend to girlfriend, change 41 to 42 here in a month and you have completely written out my life.

i'm so friggin' pathetic that I don't even have the dog....
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#420390 - 12/29/12 01:36 PM Re: Unlovable [Re: Magellan]
frankie72 Offline


Registered: 11/23/12
Posts: 32
Loc: Australia
Magellan,

I totally understand where you are coming from. It just seems to be a Catch 22 situation, where when you trust and love someone enough to open up, they desert you. If you stay quiet, they never understand why you act the way you do, or feel the way you feel.

Long story short, I'm in a crappy marriage with one child. I've never told my wife about my CSA, and likely never will. Honestly, I don't know if I can trust her with it after past experiences. Looking back, I think the only reason I did get married was in order to do what was expected of me and try and fit in.

Recently, I ended up having an affair which was supposed to be meaningless. Turns out I ended up getting emotionally attached, and actually trusted her. It's extremely rare for me to actually feel like that around anyone. Things seemed to be great until I opened up to her. Communication went to crap after that, going from friends, and after talking tonight, it looks like she is even wanting to nullify the friendship as well.

It seems any time I find someone who I can be comfortable with and share my past so they understand me ends up leaving. I'm not sure if it is because they are disgusted, shocked, unable to comprehend what happened, or the inability to want to have to deal with it.

Like you, I would really love to find someone who can accept me for who and what I am. I'm sick of all the lies and excuses I have to make up to cover my moods. I'm sick of having to pretend I am happy and normal. I just want to be accepted and understood by someone I can be honest with.

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#420397 - 12/29/12 02:13 PM Re: Unlovable [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1438
Loc: California
Thank you for your honesty.
_________________________
If I'm acting despondent, Please ask me if I'm eating sugar. I keep forgetting sugar makes me crazy.

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