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#419626 - 12/20/12 04:52 AM Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)?
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1585
Loc: New England
The other night talking in chat about being straight with SSA, a gay fellow jokingly suggested that maybe I was gay with OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction). Interesting idea and very funny. Makes me question the whole idea of why we have to identify as one or the other.

Here's an interesting article from Match.com: Am I gay or Am I......?
_________________________
Can't be bothered with sorrow
And I can't be bothered with hate, no, no
I'm using up the time but feeling fine every day
That's why I'm telling you
I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
Rare Earth

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#419638 - 12/20/12 08:56 AM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
ig3 Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 57
Thanks for sharing. I can find a woman attractive sometimes. Interesting that we would not be expected to fight OSA feelings and some might encourage them.

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#419661 - 12/20/12 04:29 PM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
seikei Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 94
Right now I am stuck in a limbo of sort when it comes to my orientation. I'm attracted to men, but I also am curious about women on a purely cardinal level. It's a bit irritating sometimes.

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#419765 - 12/21/12 02:34 PM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
panda Offline


Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 16
Loc: Michigan
That's called bisexuality. It's a perfectly valid identity. But if you don't feel like you're bisexual, maybe it's just curiosity. That's also normal. It's probably not related to assault

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#419863 - 12/22/12 03:53 PM * [Re: Jude]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:28 PM)

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#419878 - 12/22/12 11:58 PM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1585
Loc: New England
Quote:
I guess the song I Am What I Am sums it up

Reminds me of a similar song:
I yam what I yam,
and thats all that I yam,
I'm Popeye the sailor man!

"I Yam What I Yam"- Popeye

From now on I'll identify as "Popeye" and forget about sexual orientation. LOL

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#419970 - 12/23/12 09:06 PM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1447
Hey, Jude -

I asked the very same question several months ago. Despite a lot of wisdom in the thread from the many smart fellow survivors here, I can only say that - in my opinion - the issue is far more complex than anyone can fully understand.
_________________________
Eirik




Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#420113 - 12/25/12 10:21 PM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric

I asked the very same question several months ago
--
[from the older, linked thread]
The implications are staggering. I may have well been gay before the abuse started. But there is always that question - what if my abuse made me gay???

I think that is the scariest thing about this whole journey for some of us. It was for me, because if the abuse DID make me gay, then it has effectively given god-like powers to my molester. Isn't my whole life - at least my entire sexual identity - then just a fabrication of the fantasies he made me act out with him?


This kills me. Just utterly cuts out my heart and is one of my biggest obstacles to recovery.

The thought that my prolonged sexual identity crisis might not have been just "struggling to find myself" but in fact could have been "myself, struggling against the effect of an attack" was emotionally devastating. It would mean there had been not the one attack but well over a decade's worth of them, that my victimization had continued throughout most of my formative life and that nearly all of the worst feelings I'd ever had were the direct result of him. It has left me unable to think of that man with any emotion other than a near-supernatural terror, I've not moved on from the terror since and kind of can't envision a time when I could.

The not-knowing, of such a foundational element of one's own personal identity (if it IS "one's own") is the uttermost among violations. I have been at the point of *BEGGING* my T for some way to mentally box this out, to find an answer, to know. She, quite rationally, says there just is no way to know, that it certainly wouldn't be a surprise for there to have been some impact or another to some degree, very rational, very clinical. And in nearly every aspect of my life that's who I am, the rational clinical one, the one who has even been able to "box up" sexual assault in and of itself by classifying it as part of the spectrum of primate behavior that humans inherited and our constructed individualisms and civilizational norms haven't yet caught-up-to. I can "see" a chimp just beating the living shit out of another chimp with any mechanism necessary in a manner that brings the aggressor some satisfaction. It's a "box" that, rationally, makes some sense to me. I damn well don't LIKE it, but it makes rational sense.

But this? A spiral of terror and doubt, aimless, in the dark.


Edited by SoccerStar (12/25/12 11:09 PM)
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#420134 - 12/26/12 08:48 AM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1585
Loc: New England
Sorry SoccerStar,

I make light of it and forget that for some this is still a very painful issue. It was for me too for many years. Perhaps the best way out of that "box" is to stop trying to place ourselves in one category or another. Maybe sexuality is a continuum and we all fall at different places along that line. Maybe we're ALL more complicated than just straight or gay, regardless of CSA.

Being straight with SSA issues does not have to change the way you're living you life. Being married and enjoying sex with your wife does not mean you are denying who you really are. And looking at guys with some degree of interest does not mean that you are betraying your wife.

Our abusers hijacked our sexuality. Part of recovery is taking back control over who we are sexually, and the mystery that goes along with it. I've stopped worrying and am just enjoying the journey.

Jude
_________________________
Can't be bothered with sorrow
And I can't be bothered with hate, no, no
I'm using up the time but feeling fine every day
That's why I'm telling you
I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
Rare Earth

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#420195 - 12/26/12 08:42 PM * [Re: Jude]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:37 PM)

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#420201 - 12/26/12 11:17 PM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: SoccerStar]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1447
Quote:
The not-knowing, of such a foundational element of one's own personal identity (if it IS "one's own") is the uttermost among violations.

I really took a very personal journey with this topic and I suppose it's as good a time as any to share this - but I hope it doesn't fall under the definition of hijacking a thread. It really pertains straight to the very first post by Jude - of what our sexual identity truly is.

These are not Pollyanna thoughts - this stuff is one of the absolute truths I have found for myself, truths that have become old friends, and I'll share them here. My life is certainly still full of problems (whose life is not?), many which go right back to those whispered moments in tents and basements when I was a boy. I still struggle with a lot, but at least THIS much I now know...

The thought that our sexuality might have been molded by our abusers sounds like the most fundamental expression of our identity - our humanity - echoes back a wink and a nod to our molesters. When I made love with someone, there used to hover over me the unseen spirit of my abuser who watched and gloated, saying, "I have taught you well, Eric." He just always owned me, even when I ran 3000 miles away from him.

Then I started thinking about other insults. Surgical decisions to leave bullets in shooting victims the rest of their lives - the body gently encasing it, walling it off, incorporating it, and living with it in variable but often negligible accommodation. I thought about some of our US GI's who come back horribly mutilated - the geography of their bodies and wiring of their minds altered forever in a single incendiary insult. They, too, live with the results of their abusers. Near where I live is an old sidewalk, a slab around which a large sycamore tree had to grow, accommodating the old concrete by distorting its trunk and perhaps precluding the more elegant structure it was meant to be. The sidewalk, the abuser, the terrorist who set a roadside bomb, the shooter - they can all disappear. But their handiwork lives on in those lives they altered, attesting to the power they once had. Once. Had.

I look at those other survivors, and many have accepted who they had to become. The double amputee soldier who decides to be an athlete anyways. The shooting victim who can wear inside him the penetrative insult of his assailant and focus instead on the life ahead of him. The distorted sycamore tree that blooms with fury in the Spring despite its gnarled countenance. What's the alternative? Becoming bitter, embracing the victim we were so pushed into being at one point, withering. Becoming nothing.

I had to look long and hard at this, and came to the conclusion that - gay, bi, SSA, whatever - I am me. I embrace the person I had to become. The mark of my sexuality is not a simple mirror that reflects what I learned at the behest of the twisted man who abused me. My sexuality instead is a living statement that says I can bend, accommodate, grow, and - like that Sycamore tree - still bloom with all the fury I was meant to. He may have helped mold it. But I own it now.
_________________________
Eirik




Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#420205 - 12/27/12 12:26 AM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1585
Loc: New England
Very well said Eric.

SoccerStar, many of us have made peace with ourselves over this issue. Give yourself time. You will too.

And SmallTown80'sBoy, the rest of that Billy Joel song is "Go ahead with your own life...LEAVE ME ALONE! A very apt reply to those who insist we have to fit some catagory.

Gay, straight, and everything in between, we are all MEN. Why don't we just leave it at that?
_________________________
Can't be bothered with sorrow
And I can't be bothered with hate, no, no
I'm using up the time but feeling fine every day
That's why I'm telling you
I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
Rare Earth

Top
#420208 - 12/27/12 01:06 AM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: Jude]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
Those are all very helpful ways to see this. Thank you. Eric, your imagery is particularly lyrical; I'm a sucker for anything involving how trees grow around obstacles. /:)

I've accepted my sexual interests and desires, I've accepted myself. I enjoy my fantasies about both genders and feel no guilt - it is who and what I am.

But I think back to the 10+ years it took me to reach that point, and think every day of doubt and shame and attempted self-deception might all have been a response to someone else hurting me, without me even knowing it.... and I could just cry, scream, punch a wall. I probably should, now that I think of it. It's like... being born with a really conspicuous birthmark that you find embarrassing, and being teased for it for years, then eventually learning to love yourself with it and making it part of a fashion "look," then finding out it isn't a birthmark, it's a burn someone gave you. You've reached the right place, you're fine with yourself, but learning about the new scope of a past crime still hurts. If I'd ever, ever, ever thought for an instant at the time that my inner conflict could have been related to the CSA, I'd have reported it immediately from pure moral outrage - and it would have been within the statute of limitations and the guy would at least have had to stand trial.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Shoulda invested in Apple while I'm at it.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#420289 - 12/28/12 06:43 AM Re: Gay With OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction)? [Re: SoccerStar]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1585
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
I've accepted my sexual interests and desires, I've accepted myself.

Thats great news SoccerStar....now go love your wife till you both explode!

Jude
_________________________
Can't be bothered with sorrow
And I can't be bothered with hate, no, no
I'm using up the time but feeling fine every day
That's why I'm telling you
I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
Rare Earth

Top
#420415 - 12/29/12 07:14 PM * [Re: Chase Eric]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:41 PM)

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