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#419416 - 12/17/12 11:57 PM Interview With A Vampire (new Title)
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I looks like my turn on the rollercoaster!

Before my birthday I told my wife that I had been thinking of doing a road trip to see my half brother (my first abuser). My whole family is into denial in a big way...It should be our last name. We were both groomsmen at each others weddings and have had a polite but very awkward relationship for the past 25 years. Other family members are often asking me what my problem is with him....Gee wiz...he made me suck his thing from the age of 4 to 8!!! I don't know??? We have all been keeping up the appearance of a happy family (in some ways we are I guess). I wanted to talk to him and get him to fill in the blanks in my memories. After I was married he rang and apologized for what happened. I wasn't ready to deal with it then so I just said I guessed stuff had happened to him first and I already forgave him and got off the phone as quick as I could. I think he was doing it as part of a 12 step thing. It was a pretty lame apology really. So I know he at least at one point felt sorry for what he did and acknowledged that it happened. Also NEED to know what happened to him....What he did to my other brother. I want to tell him about the rest of the stuff that happened to me and that he started a chain reaction. It feels like if we get some answers it will be healing for us both.

So...

On my birthday I got an e-card from my him. The E-card was some nice inspirational crap about the past and the future..bla bla bla. I was soooo confused. Like ok am I just making a big deal out of all this. I didn't respond to the e-card and he sent a follow up email to make sure I got it. I replied back with a thanks and some 'nice' chit-chat. since then I have been swinging like a pendulum. Angry that he trained me to be a s*x slave and is now nice to me .....guilty that I still seem to hold it against him.

And...

My wife talks to her mum about EVERYTHING - she is like her T. I am ok with that for now - as I haven't told my wife everything yet. her mum is cool and thinks I am AWESOME and has always been very supportive of anything I've done. (way more than my parents) . She has often told me how proud she is of me - even before the CSA came out. I have sort of adopted my wife's family. I know it sounds weird but my mother in law knows more about my abuse than my own parents. My wife asked her mum if she would go with me on the road trip. My wife is worried I will be in a bad state afterwards ...especially after I told her I was suicidal a while back. My mother in law has just quit her job and will have a holiday before she starts a new job. So I basically it would be better to do it in the next couple of weeks (it is a 6hr drive one way). At first I wasn't ready to do it yet but today I am feeling more confident.

I have made a special T session tomorrow to discuss how I should ask him and basically how it should play out and if he thinks I'm ready.

But part of me doesn't want to know the truth...what if it wasn't as bad as I remember or he down plays it. What if it only happened once and I made the rest up.
'This' has been such a big part of who I am - I don't know if I can let it go. or...what if it was worse than I remember????

Then today...

Life goes on as usual. My wife and I had to go pick up a pony for our kids for Christmas. Just what you always wanted...right? We had a good 3 hours in the car alone together to talk. I told her about all the abuse up to 12 years old (5 perps) including the doctor. She did not want to know any details of what happened. She kept changing the subject - talking about 'normal' stuff. I asked if she was doing it on purpose. She said no. But kept doing it. I didn't feel like she was being a very good listener (to put it politely). I told her about my self image problems and that growing up (and even now) I felt like I was just a sex object for others pleasure - that my looks were all I had going for me. The only reason people like me. She said aren't you lucky you married someone who isn't 'into that'. She said "So... you want me to tell you you are ugly". No because I think I am ugly and that is why I NEED others to tell me I'm not. Then I told her about the Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) - she made that all about her recent slight weight gain. I reassured her that it didn't bother me (I said I still wanted to stick IT in her) and tried to bring the conversation back to CSA. I explained that I had a sexual addiction (MB and p0rn). She got very mad about the P0rn. I did not specify what type of p0rn and she didn't ask - she is assuming it is straight. I don't know if that is better or worse. She said that the thought of me doing her after getting horny from THAT made her feel disgusting. I said that I only thought of her when I was with her...(white lie) and that I couldn't help it that sometimes memories invaded my mind and that is usually when I have ED problems. She said that if she ever even thinks I have viewing p0rn then IT WILL NOT BE HAPPENING. She was also VERY mad that I had lied to her about this all these years. It was intense!!! I explained that I was introduced to p0rn at a young age and had been MBing since 10 and it was going to be a hard habit to break..... but I was trying. She insisted that I install the p0rn filter back on our computer straight away. I said sorry for lying. cry

I had many teary moments and a few pauses to gain my composure - but mostly held it together. All this while driving our 4X4 (SUV) and towing a horse float!! In hind sight not the smartest thing I have done.

I told her most of my recovery goals.

On the way back she blurted out in a nasty voice that I need to be careful that I don't make this an attention seeking thing. Because I obviously still crave attention.....I was silent....I had nothing. About an hour after I said how hard it has been for me to talk about the abuse and how it affected me. I have been hiding it for 30+ years. I did't want anyone to think I am less of a man or 'broken'.....especially her. I didn't want to hide it from her anymore. I want her to know the truth about me and love me anyway..... no response.

I didn't want to go into the teen acting out/abuse or SSA cause I think she may see that differently and I think what I told her today was enough for her to handle. I want to do that in the controlled environment of my T's rooms. Later she talked about how she prefered it when she was ignorant of all this and said that she wanted a refund jokingly....I said that is Sooo NOT funny. She said the actual abuse doesn't change the way she thinks about me. The Porn and Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) do. She said the BDD explained a lot and gave examples.

She had NO IDEA I was had such a high sex drive and was into p0rn. She thinks it is degrading and since I am a good guy I would think the same. I talked about my need to do IT more than we are (1-2 a month) and that it would make it easier for me to be good. She said that she thought I was being unreasonable and if she is unwell she does not want to feel obligated to do it because we have only done it once so far this week. She said that I could MB as much as I like as long as she didn't have to know about it. (Even though she knew I did it she has always frowned on MB in the past - so I guess that is a positive)

Basically I think it ended pretty well. (calmly). And at least we understand each other better. She is with her mum now...I can just imagine the conversation..... 'your son in law just told me he is a low down dirty rotten porn watching sex addict' My mother in law is staying with us for a few days....We will see if I am still the golden boy. smile


Edited by Farmer Boy (01/20/13 07:56 AM)
Edit Reason: change title
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#419427 - 12/18/12 02:33 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Wow, that's a pretty brave thing to do. I can see how it could be a healing experience for both of you. Please keep us updated!

Sorry your wife reacted with anger... I guess it must be hard for them to understand. I really hope you guys can get through this. I know how much it helps to have someone who is there for you...
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I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
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You can play
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#419428 - 12/18/12 02:39 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
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Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
For those of you who didn't grow up in an incest environment....Try to imagine my wedding. 2/3 groomsmen having sexually abused me as a child....supposedly supporting me on the biggest day of my life....All getting dressed in our suits together. I was married last and they had me as their groomsman. It would have looked like something was wrong if I didn't have them. All part of the lies and secrets. But that was my life....now I'm starting to tell the truth....finally.....and it hurts!
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#419433 - 12/18/12 04:23 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
peroperic2009 Offline
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Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey (((Lee))), wow, that is some ambitious plan ahead of you.
It is good that you gonna talk with your T about all this, disclosing and confrontation is very sensitive happening and it should be done in safest possible environment. It is good that you won't be alone there, it might be that you'll need some support.
Please don't be scared, even if it has happened once it doesn't mean that it wasn't bad. You are the only one who can tell how bad it was, you suffered a lot, you have had many scars because of it and it was terrible difficult for you, so please be calm about that. And certainly think to comment all your worries and fears with your T and it could be very helpful if you could bring your wife too there, she also has some needs that could be easily forgotten in all this chaos wink
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#419487 - 12/18/12 02:44 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
SoccerStar Offline
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Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Lee,

Not the best response you could have gotten from her. Many people are not "active listeners" and by reflex change the subject back to themselves; that's understandable, that's ok. But you describe her as near-totally unsympathetic, not comforting you or saying you deserved better or even saying how much it meant to have the truth out. That's not cool. Hopefully she was just taken by surprise and will act better on this info later.

If I live to be a billion I will never understand people who think porn is evil and only freaks look at it. It wasn't right to shame you over that.

WTF is it with people who don't get how to respond to secrets?

Regardless, it was courageous of you to tell her and you picked the best setting possible I think.

Don't mention the stuff about dudes. If she doesn't like you even THINKING about other WOMEN.... there are certain levels of truths that are more appropriate for some people. It doesn't make them bad people, any more than being the guy who can barely grasp remedial math.


Matt
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#419496 - 12/18/12 04:29 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:24 PM)

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#419497 - 12/18/12 04:50 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Suwanee Offline
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Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 703
Loc: Southeast USA
Lee,

I'm so sorry your wife's response wasn't helpful when you needed more from her. I had something of a row with my wife when she told me I needed to leave the past in the past. To be fair, she doesn't know the guy at camp raped me instead of "just" fondling me. Still, it was hard to hear. She is supportive, but I didn't need that.

Your wife may need time to process new disclosures you make. After all, you have had years to live with this and she has had a couple of months. I agree with Matt, that you shouldn't mention SSA. I'm impressed with what you are doing. In time, it will pay dividends. If you need to vent, MS is here.

Will
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My Journal

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Ruins of a past unknown-

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#419523 - 12/19/12 07:28 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Suwanee]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thanks guys for all your support. It is really helping me to get through this.

In my wife's defense it IS that time of the month and she suffers REALLY bad from PMT and period related depression (or should I say I suffer smirk )
She is on meds for it which have improved things but I still have to be sensitive about 2 weeks every month. Needless to say I should have realised that she was not in the best place to 'hear' me. Add to that the fact that I have been preoccupied with my recovery and not working as hard as I normally do (still harder than the average Joe mind you)....which is frustating her.

I saw my T today, It was specifically to make a plan to talk/confront my brother. But I ended up spending the first half hour talking about the episode with my wife. He agreed with most of you that how she acted was NOT OK. I said that the way she reacted made me feel less inclinded to disclose the SSA and subsequent acting out. He said that full disclosure is the only way that I can have the true and real relationship with her I desire where i feel like she loves me for who I really am and not who she wants me to be. She seems to be in denial and doesn't want to acknowledge that I may not be the strong, confident, good, upstanding, pure, wholesome, trustworthy man that I have protrayed to her for 14+ years. I have obviously been a very convincing actor and like so many of us have hidden behind the lies. Part of it is my nack for 'becoming' whoever the other person wants me to be. I guess I have to decide if I am happy to stay in a relationship where I have to hide who I am. Anyway I digress...

The Plan!

My T said he thought it could be a good thing BUT I had to be realistic about my expectations of him. I had to be prepared for the worst. We talked about what the worst case senario would look like...then we talked about my biggest hope from this 'talk'. We also talked about the fact that I can 'choose' whether to believe what he says or not.

My biggest hope is that I could finally fill in the gaps of what happened to me and understand what happened to him to make him think it was ok to sexually abuse me.
I would like to know how many other boys he abused.
I want him to know what my childhood was REALLY like and how his actions 'set me up' for future perps.
I want us to have an open and honest relationship where we both accept the truth about what happened. Nothing more - nothing less.

We decided that I should ring rather than email to make a time.
I came up with the idea that my mother in law was going to visit one of her relatives in his city 6 hours away (another lie) and that I thought I might go with and stop in to see him to spend some time with him. (he resently mentioned he was lonely)
Tell him that I have been in couselling for a few months
Then mention that I wanted to talk to him about what happened to me as a child.
Tell him that I was not angry with him and that I wanted this to be healing for us both.
Ask what time would suit him best.

Reasons why I think I am ready to deal with this
- He has already apologised for 'going stuff' to me (all be it half arsed) 12 years ago
- He has contacted me recently via email in a way to suggest he wants a normal brotherly relationship with me
- I want to tell the truth and I want to know the truth
- Now I am the Alpha male (one of my friends here today made me realise how important it is to me to be an alpha male)
Lasttime I saw him all I could think was how sad and pathetic his life is..divorced twice. Old looking for his age (45). On a invalid pension because of a back injury. Lonely.
I am now better looking, bigger, stronger and better built than he is. I am the director of a multi-million dollar company. I have a beautiful wife and two happy children who love me.
When I was 6 and he was 16 he was the alpha male. He was taller and stronger and had it all together. Now I feel more superior. I have confidence that I will be in control of the situation. I will decide how it plays out. He will not intimidate me.

After my T session I took a little time out before going home to get myself together. I was still really tired from not sleeping the night before. When I got home I crashed for an hour on the bed.
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#419527 - 12/19/12 07:57 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3363
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Lee - so good to hear your report.

yeah, i sometimes feel like i spend a good percentage of my time and energy dealing with other people's reactions to my issues and how i deal with my issues. it is a mixed blessing to have others that you need to consider and take their needs into account.

it sounds to me, though - like you have been working pretty hard on your recovery. give yourself a break. you have to do it at your pace - not according to someone else's expectations.

sorry it got messy with her. that doesn't help. you are a good man and i'm sure you will keep it together and not inflict any additional pain. i hope she can learn to be kind to you - but at this point she doesn't really know how much you deserve it! sort of a catch 22.

sounds like things are really progressing well towards the meeting with the brother. glad the T is preparing you for all eventualities. keep in mind that you may be mentally prepped - but the emotional impact may be another thing altogether.

good you are taking care of yourself. keep it up!
lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#419528 - 12/19/12 08:06 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
THE CALL

I decided that I needed to ring him now or I would either chicken out or forget the game plan.

After I had gotten the cows up for milking I left my wife to milk by herself (as usual - it only takes one of us). I went up to the house to get a drink and it was empty (the kids were playing outside) so I grapped the phone and locked my self in my room. I quickly wrote out some notes on a piece of paper so I didn't forget the plan. It was kind of impulsive.

It rang for ages...I thought I'mnot leaving a message...then he answered. Crap!!!!
He sounded surpised to hear from me - fair enough - I NEVER call him.
He said he had just got home and started telling me about his day when he was finished that story there was a pregnant pause.........
I said "the reason I rang up is I was just wondering if I could come and visit you in the next couple of weeks. [insert wife's name here]'s mum is coming up that way and I thought I would come with for the drive and see you while I'm there.
He said "Yeah that would be great....are you bring the kids with you"

Deep Breath!!!
I said "acually I have an alterior motive - I've been in counselling for a few months and I would like to talk to you about what happened between us when I was little."
He said "Oh....I see .... anything I can do to make up for what I did. I understand how awkward it is to talk about this stuff. Did your cousellor suggest it?"
I said "No I just thought it could be healing for us both to talk about the elephant in the room rather than just pretending it isn't there. I just want you to know that I'm not angry about it anymore. I just need some answers about what happened."
He said " sure what ever you think will help"
I said "I would also like to know what happened to you growing up"
He said "It is really hard to talk about but if you think it will help"
I said " I also want to tell you about the other stuff tht happened to me. What happened with you was just the start and stuff also happened with [insert other brother] too.

I asked him if he had been in counselling for it and he said he had for other stuff (abandonment issues etc) and thatthey had touched on it but nothing specifically targeted at the abuse. He said that he told his second wife about what he had done and she had been abused her self and from then on she put him in the same boat as her father. It was not why they divorced but it didn't help. He said that one of his T's had said that 'these things are only as bad as you make them'. If you think they are bad they will affect you in a bad way (.....Hmmmm)

He said that he just didn't think what he was doing was wrong. He thought it would be fun. At least it wsn't like when an adult feels bad about what they are doing and then force the kid to do it......(again Hmmmmm)

We set a date in the first week in January (when he doesn't have custody of his 15 year old son)

He said he was glad I said that I wasn't angry or he would have been stressing out about it....thinking I was going to give him a summons or something....(he said he already had that?????)

He did say that what he did was bad and must have messed me up. We talked about some other stuff (can't really remember right now - too happy)

I am willing to accept that he will have a different 'take' on the situation and down play his responsiblilty. That changes nothing I will still be making it clear the rammifications of his actions.

At the moment I am over the moon. I had set myself up for his refusal to talk about it and even deny it happened. I am confident that there will be a positive outcome from this....of some sort.

Thank you all for walking with me on this journey.

Damn...I was so excited about telling you about the good news that I forgot what happened next.
mad crazy confused mad crazy confused mad crazy confused mad crazy confused
My wife starts banging on the window of our bedroom screeming at me. "What are you doing???" I hung up and said "I have just been talking to my brother" smile "Why do you have to do that now" she said "you should be doing everything that has to be done right now". This comment was so ridiculous because I only had about 1 hour of work to do and 3 hours left of daylight. It was so not an issue. I got my boots on and asked her what she wanted me to do..."the usual". I said "Do you think you could at least TRY to be supportive". She said "You have not done ANY work around here for 2 weeks (so not true by the way). Meanwhile I am stressing out"

She said something else right here that was so bad I can't even remember it. I just remember being so mad that I needed to turn around and walk away before I did something I would regret.

I did all my jobs while her and the kids rode the new pony. Then I joined in and helped clean up the yard. Everything was back to normal. She seemed happy again....Women ....I will NEVER understand them. crazy

Lee


Edited by Farmer Boy (12/19/12 08:20 AM)
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#419532 - 12/19/12 08:42 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Wow Lee, those are good news.
I'm glad to hear that your half brother was interested for talk and I hope it will be healing experience for both of you.
You have been very brave in your wish to go trough all this, I'm so proud on you smile
Yeah, there were couple important hms that you wrote and that could be problematic during talk. I would be a little bit worried because he didn't go trough counseling for abuse and if there are some terrible unknown facts (for example if he was abused by someone before he went on you, or if that abuser could be some family member etc.) it could be also that some difficult memories for him (or you) could emerge during or after talk with you, so please be ready for anything frown
Maybe you would have couple more meetings with your T before you'll meet your half brother?
Those are my thoughts on all this.
Hang on (((Lee)))
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#419533 - 12/19/12 08:58 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thanks again guys for the support

I forgot to say that after my wife let me have it when I got off the phone I spoke to my mother-in-law (who is visiting us at the moment). She WAS AWESOME!!!! She was so happy and encouraging, told me how proud she is of me and said everything I needed to hear as well. It really helped me to reclaim the moment.

HaHaHa....Why can't my wife be more like her mother? laugh
(bet no one has said that before)

BTW - my wife didn't feel the need to tell her mum about my porn habit or addiction to MBing......so obviously I'm still the golden boy!!! Pheww - I need my mother-in-law's support right now. I think she would probably understand anyway. She has a better understanding of the real world than my wife.


Edited by Farmer Boy (12/19/12 03:49 PM)
Edit Reason: add
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#419540 - 12/19/12 10:20 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Suwanee Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 703
Loc: Southeast USA
Lee,

That's all great news. Like others have said, the door has been opened, just be ready for HIM to unload a few burdens as well. Always remember that this meeting is for your sake, even if he has a tale to tell. You did say it was for mutual healing...

Women...yes, they are complicated creatures. The "monthly thing" is stil a bit of a mystery to me. I know it is supposed to be worst in the third week. Still, I'm always caught by surprise when my loving wife becomes a shrew during this time. After it passes, she has said before, "How can you stand to be around me when I can't even stand myself?" I just smile at her.

Will
_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

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#419542 - 12/19/12 10:39 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
cant_remember Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
It's crazy when women get jealous of MB'ing and p0rn. I mean, really.

P0rn can certainly be addictive and problematic on all sorts of levels, but as a general thing it's not that big of a deal.

Cant
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Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#419553 - 12/19/12 01:58 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Will

The monthly thing in my house is the week before....THE WEEK...and the week after. I guess that is why I only have a week left to get lucky. frown

Can't wait till my daughter starts and there are two of them. laugh

Lee
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#419556 - 12/19/12 02:04 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
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Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Cant

I was thinking of you during all of this. I am so sorry you don't have the same opportunity to find out what you 'can't remember'. I hope I finally get the answers I'm looking for but realise I may never know and can't neccessarily trust what he says anyway.

I do feel very fortunate to be in this situation.

Thanks for being here....REALLY!

Lee
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#419562 - 12/19/12 02:23 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
cant_remember Online   content
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Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Thanks, Lee.

We're all in this together.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#419574 - 12/19/12 04:56 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:25 PM)

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#419655 - 12/20/12 02:08 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I need your help.

I will not be able to meet with my T as Pero suggested to workout a game plan for my meeting. I am not known for my tact.

Any thoughts on how to handle this would be great!!!

One of my good friends pointed out to me if I say the wrong thing and he goes into defensive mode I will not getthe outcome I so greatly desire.

I want him to be accountable for what he did but I don't want to destroy him in the process. I am the better man and I have compassion for him.

Thanks

Lee
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#419674 - 12/20/12 06:23 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Suwanee Offline
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Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 703
Loc: Southeast USA
.
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#419684 - 12/20/12 07:22 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:25 PM)

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#419694 - 12/20/12 08:07 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Hi Lee, based on his response that you wrote above, I think that he probably is remorseful. I don't know how old he was at the time and how old he is now but time and age does change us. If he was an adolescent he couldn't appreciate how bad a thing he did. Not saying that his actions should be excused but I hope that a lot of younger abusers would not have done what they had done if they had an idea of the effects on their victims.

In my case my abuser was an older friend. Maybe three years older than I was. While he had to know it was wrong but likely couldn't appreciate the damage he caused. (I hope he dies a horrible death for what he did to me and others. Forgiveness for me is not an option.)

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#419745 - 12/21/12 09:57 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Please take a look at "Disclosure and Confrontation" http://www.malesurvivor.org/ArchivedPages/singer3.html

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#420534 - 12/31/12 03:26 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
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Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Hey Guys

Just giving you an update.

I see my brother this Friday morning (4th of January) (Thursday afternoon/evening in US).

I am still planning what I am going to say to him and want to thank the guys that have offered advice.

More details later.
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#420538 - 12/31/12 04:13 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:45 PM)

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#420541 - 12/31/12 05:41 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
KMCINVA Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1618
Take care of yourself. Keep yourself safe and do not set expectations as what your abuser may say.

Keep well and best of luck.

Kevin

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#420714 - 01/02/13 04:15 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
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Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I leave to go on my pilgrimage in a few hours.

I am freaking out obviously. Guess it is to be expected.

More new flash backs etc.

I do feel deep inside it will be ok.

I need my friends around me now noe than ever and it means so much to me to know you guys are here. I couldn't do this alone. Actually I wouldn't have done this if I hadn't found the strength I got from being here and sharing in all your/our experiences. You have all helped me to get to this point. Every post....Every PM.

I hope I get the answers I need from my meeting.
I am scared to get them!
I don't know where they will take me.
I may just get a brother out of it rather than another perp.
That will be HARD to let go of (if I do let go)
Sometimes I still HATE him for what I became (a man whore)
But hey I guess I will see what happens.

Lee
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More than meets the eye!

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#420717 - 01/02/13 05:06 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1509
Loc: New England
FB,

We've got your back. Whatever happens, you have brother here who understand you.

Jude
_________________________
"I get up, and nothing gets me down.
You got it tough. I've seen the toughest around.
And I know, baby, just how you feel.
You've got to roll with the punches to get to what's real"
Van Halen

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#420722 - 01/02/13 07:19 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
SoccerStar Offline
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Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Lee,

You have all of your considerable life accomplishments, everything you've struggled to beat and did, your loving wife and kids, all your friends / brothers here, AND basic human decency, rule of law, civilization itself, all on your side.... versus just his teenaged dick on the other side. He knows why you are confronting him and now it's his turn to be afraid.

We're all with you.

Matt
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My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#420726 - 01/02/13 08:53 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Suwanee Offline
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Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 703
Loc: Southeast USA
Lee,

You have this one in hand. You are the one with nothing to prove or account for. Keep cool and calm. Like I said earlier, you have personal and career/vocational success doing something you love. You accomplished all of this while bearing a terrible burden.

That is real strength.
We're all supporting you.

Will
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My Journal

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#420778 - 01/03/13 03:01 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Lee

I also feel that it would be ok. Perhaps not immediately, but eventually. I hope you get the answers you want, or at least answers that will help you heal. We're all here for you, waiting to support you when you come back.
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#420955 - 01/04/13 08:47 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I just got back.

Hmmmm. Be careful what you ask for you may just get it!

So we talked for 3 1/2 hours. I was empathetic but firm about the severity of what he did. I got answers to my questions which gave me more questions which gave me more answers.

To be honest I want to vomit right now.

I think eventually it will be healing for us both - but for now we are both feeling numb. There was a lot of ground to cover.

He seemed to be a 'changed man' and I believe his remorse is sincere.

Thanks for ALL the support.

I will post more later after I have digested it all.

Lee
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More than meets the eye!

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#420956 - 01/04/13 08:53 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
peroperic2009 Offline
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Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hang on Lee,
I'm glad that you went trough it, even it could be overwhelming. I hope your feelings will settle and you'll regain your inner peace soon. You are not alone!
Take care of yourself!

(((Lee)))
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#420981 - 01/04/13 01:21 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
I can't imagine doing what you have done. No idea of how it would go. My hat goes off to you. I think it will help in the long run.

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#420986 - 01/04/13 02:05 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
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Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thanks Pero and Candu

I thought I would start by discussing my 'getting ready' rootine at the risk of revealing how neurotic and narcissistic I really am. I just hope that out of 10,840 members some of you can relate.

So I spent the night at my parents in law.

Didn't get much sleep which was to be expected but pissed me off because I wanted to look my best. Then I decided it was a good thing to see that I had lost sleep about it. I got up and washed my face and wet me hair then dried it. I didn't brush it because I wanted to have that messy, I just woke up and threw on a shirt kind of look. Like I didn't give a shit about impressing him.

Next I moisturised my face, arms and legs. I wanted to look like the picture of youth and vitality (the opposite of him). I also wanted that slight shine to my skin to accentuate every Oz of muscle on my arms and legs. I had a bit of a stress induced pumple breakout earlier that week and was pleased to see it had completely cleared up and I was now clear skinned again. I shaved my face and trimmed my goatee the day before so I would have a good stubble by friday to define my jaw line.

The outfit.
I decided to wear a polo and shorts (it is hot here). Again I wanted to look like I didn't give a shit about impressing him and just always look good even when I'm not trying.

Shirt - singlet too obviously showing off, T-Shirt too casual, button up shirt too formal - like I was trying too hard to impress. The v-neck of the polo would also show off my chest hair. I decided on a steel blue/grey polo because they really make my blue eyes pop (or so I've been told) and to compliment my dark tan. And a manly colour and just my favourite colour. I have 4. I took them all just in case. They are all tight across my chest and around my biceps (pretty short sleeves) - obviously areas that any man wants to look bigger.

Shorts - Khaki - I have 3 and took them all. All cut just above the knee so when I sit down the ride up and show of my upper leg muscles. Obviously a snug fit around my butt and ..... front.... if you know what I mean. I wanted him to know I was packing heat. I was going to go commando - then realised that I may get aroused and did NOT want him to see that. So opted for a supportive/uplifting pair of jocks. I feel like an idiot saying this but again hoping I'm not alone. Wasn't a problem in the end but It was a good idea after all. I had not considered the copious amount of precum I ended up leaking as I discovered when I went to the toilet after (didn't realise at the time). Wet patch on my shorts WOULD have been embarrassing!!!

I tried on each shirt twice - to see which one was more flattering today. Then each pair of shorts at least 4 times and checked my butt in the mirror and sat down in them each time before deciding on a pair.

Shoes my favourite pair of 'Vans' sneakers (causual canvas skater type shoe) with no socks. Again 'I just threw them on'.

I was ready!!!!

Then I took off my shirt and put on a singlet. I had a 3 hour drive and new from experience I would be sweating like a pig. I would stop and change my shirt just before I got there. I was right - that was a good idea. My sweat smells gross when I am stressed.

But wait - expensive silver watch and wedding ring (just to remind him I am married and he is not x 2. (I don't always wear my ring because it would be damgeous with my job). Watch to show how much better off I am. Finally brand name sunnies on my head.

Now I am ready - full of confidence with a swagger in my step.

HaHaHa. Sooooo now at least you all know how vain I am. If nothing else I hope you got a laugh about how weird I am.

Lee
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More than meets the eye!

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#420992 - 01/04/13 02:38 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Lol, hey Lee, that was detailed description of your appearance, you made some impression that is for sure wink
Please don't be so hard on yourself, many of us have some freaky side, lol, don't worry, you are not alone with this.
Must say that I have buddy (hub of my niece) who is terrible into look, every detail is so important and so carefully chosen, even underwear needs to be combined with socks and so on wink only me and my niece knows about it, lol, and he is always trying so hard to look good, but you know people are falling on that, lol
I'm glad to see you in better mood and with some irony, smile , hang on buddy
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#420993 - 01/04/13 03:08 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Suwanee Offline
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Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 703
Loc: Southeast USA
"... I decided on a steel blue/grey polo because they really make my blue eyes pop..." That's graphic design speak!

Your talk "prep" sounds like something I'd do. Nothing wrong with that!

Will
_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

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#420997 - 01/04/13 04:08 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
I thought I would start by discussing my 'getting ready' rootine ...

... full of confidence with a swagger in my step.
HaHaHa. Sooooo now at least you all know how vain I am. If nothing else I hope you got a laugh about how weird I am.

Shit. This is just like the serials when I was a kid. to be continued

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#421000 - 01/04/13 04:25 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Can't wait season two, lol
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#421025 - 01/04/13 09:10 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:48 PM)

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#421079 - 01/05/13 02:45 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3363
Loc: somewhere in Africa
WOW, Lee!

talk about obsessive...

but i can totally relate. i have always been extremely meticulous about my appearance. never felt very good-looking in myself - so i overcompensated in the way i dressed. in college and my younger adult years i wore "costumes" - different styles of clothes to give exactly the impression i wanted (counter-culture, guy next door, preppie, young professional, GQ, etc). now that i am older, i am still careful about appearance - and what is appropriate to the occasion - but i feel more like "who gives a rip about how an old has-been like me looks?"

so - are you going to give us a detailed description of his outfit, too? (just joking!)

i do appreciate the level of anxiety you must have been under. this was your way of making it a bit more manageable. i hope it helped. i just hope you didn't look so hot that he got any ideas... (did that cross your mind?)

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#421092 - 01/05/13 05:37 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Wow, lol. You remind me of myself some years ago! When I got off drugs, I put on some weight (I was practically emaciated on drugs) developed some muscle and actually became quite vain... I guess for me it had a lot to do with the novelty of actually liking what I saw in the mirror. Then I started loosing my hair... oh well, whatever. Now I shave off what little hair I have left, and although I still like to look good, I'm not obsessive about it anymore.

Anyway, I'm with traveler - I hope that controlling what was in your power to control, made the whole even easier.
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#421116 - 01/05/13 08:42 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thank you all for your comments.

Originally Posted By: traveler
so - are you going to give us a detailed description of his outfit, too? (just joking!)

Hahaha. Lee - you know me too well. Of course I am going to say what he wore!..... but first.

I am not always this bad - it was my way of dealing with the stress and anxiety. (I took no drugs)

Reading over this again I have realised what is going on. Probably obvious to you all but wasn't to me. I just thought I NEEDED to feel 'all together' but when I reread it and your replies I realised how fixated I was on looking 'manly or masculine'. I know where this comes from:

a. As a child I was very effeminate and made to feel like a girl because other boys/men had sex with me and I was my mother's 'favourite' and did girly things with here (played with soft toys, sewing, flower arranging etc). I had blonde curly locks and big blue eyes and was often mistaken for a girl. (Gary's post about his brother reminded me of that). My dad and brothers called me all sorts of names (including 'leanne') and even some kids at school. I actually thought I was a girl trapped in a boy's body for a year or so. However as soon as I hit puberty I was unmistakably masculine and I worked it out.

b. when I grew to 6'2" at 13 I was extremely skinny for about a year. (Gecko's post reminded me of that) When I got muscles people (men) noticed me.

c. My need to assert myself as a strong presence that could NOT be taken advantage of anymore

The stupid thing about it was I was making such an effort to look like I didn't care that I would have looked just as good if I had fallen out of bed and thrown on a shirt.

So....The arrival

I hadn't been to his house for 14 years. It was rundown, needed painting, yard needed mowing etc. At the risk of sounding like a snob I felt instantly like he was a lower class of person to myself (In reality I am not that sort of person - I do not care about money and possessions) I walked around the back and expected to see a broken down car in the back yard (there wasn't). I walked up his back steps, took a deep breath and knocked on the door.

When he opened the door I instantly felt sorry for him. He was a broken man - his life is pathetic. He had on an obviously new black polo shirt that hung off his sholders and sunken chest and clung to his big gut. He had on new camouflage cargo shorts and thongs (flip flops). He is 6' tall and has faded black hair which was freshly combed. He reminded me of Darth Vader at the end of 'Return of the Jedi' when his mask comes off. He was pale and had bags under his eyes. There was no life no vitality. I felt compassion for him.

I had planned to make a big deal about how despite what happened to me growing up I did not let it ruin my life and that I have a beautiful family and wife and a great lifestyle. But there was no point. I could see it in his eyes that he felt inferior to me and intimidated. The difference in our status in every way was like chalk and cheese. I realised I didn't need all that 'prep' work to 'beat' him. I already was the better man. He was by far more scared of me than I was of him.

We shook hands and he showed me around his house and told me his plans for fixing it up (when he can afford it)

I opened the packet of Tim Tams I brought with me as an ice breaker and he made 2 cups of tea......

I spoke softly but purposefully. I started by saying that what happened between us all those years ago was betwwen us and I wanted it to stay that way. I did not want him to let anyone else in the family know about my visit or any of the details we shared here. He agreed. I reassured him that I had no intention of filling charges against him and I wanted this to be healing for us both.

I felt like I was talking to a fellow survior. I let him speak first .......

I AM sorry for all the suspense but I can't handle talking about it in one go.

Lee

PS
Originally Posted By: traveler
i just hope you didn't look so hot that he got any ideas... (did that cross your mind?)
If anything I thought it was a chance to say look what you can't have anymore and how empowering it would be to stop it.
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#421148 - 01/05/13 05:48 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Take all the time you need. This is for you. (and we appreciate the ride) You are doing great.

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#421156 - 01/05/13 08:18 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
traveler Offline
Member
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Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3363
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Lee - thanks for continuing your saga...

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
I am not always this bad - it was my way of dealing with the stress and anxiety. (I took no drugs)

dude - it was the ONE thing you could control. no wonder you went overboard.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
When he opened the door I instantly felt sorry for him. He was a broken man - his life is pathetic. ... There was no life no vitality. I felt compassion for him. ... I could see it in his eyes that he felt inferior to me and intimidated. The difference in our status in every way was like chalk and cheese. I realised I didn't need all that 'prep' work to 'beat' him. I already was the better man. He was by far more scared of me than I was of him.

your humanity shines through here. a victim often has more compassion than one who has not suffered as much. interesting that bullies and perps are often frightened when confronted by truth. perhaps proving his guilt?

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
I opened the packet of Tim Tams I brought with me as an ice breaker and he made 2 cups of tea......

Quite a peace offering - that had to make an impression! i am salivating right now!

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
I spoke softly but purposefully. I started by saying that what happened between us all those years ago was betwwen us and I wanted it to stay that way. I did not want him to let anyone else in the family know about my visit or any of the details we shared here. He agreed. I reassured him that I had no intention of filling charges against him and I wanted this to be healing for us both.

i am very proud of you.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
I felt like I was talking to a fellow survior. I let him speak first .......

you ARE both survivors - but it sounds like YOU have overcome more and ended up better off than him. chances are he hasn't really worked at it like you have. maybe still in denial? whereas you - even by taking this trip have shown your strength. well done on that count.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
I AM sorry for all the suspense but I can't handle talking about it in one go.

don't rush it. we'll still be here...

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
If anything I thought it was a chance to say look what you can't have anymore and how empowering it would be to stop it.

OK - but it easily could have sent mixed messages.

Lee, it sounds like you are doing well. just be prepared for a slump or emotional backlash. often after a high - there is a sudden and unexpected low. forewarned is forearmed.
Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#421163 - 01/05/13 09:02 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser [Re: Farmer Boy]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
You two Lees are terrible good in combination smile
Lee Farmer Boy - thank you for sharing with us your journey, you brought us the moment, the scenery, main characters, their appearances, all emotions, uneasy feelings, worry and anxiety before disclosure with your half brother.
I'm glad that you felt compassion toward him and that you two were meet like two survivors. That was so moving. I can't wait for other parts.
Please take it slowly and don't push yourself, we are her for you and we will wait.

Lee - Traveler, wow, you are so kind and full of wisdom toward Lee, lol, your guidance is inspiring.


Pero
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#421180 - 01/05/13 10:34 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:51 PM)

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#421480 - 01/08/13 08:24 AM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser on FRIDAY [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Hey Guys

blush I just re-read the post about my 'prep' for the meeting. I was really just relaying what went through my head as I got ready and did not intend to give such a detailed discription on my appearance in the process. blush

To be honest if I read that about someone else I would feel both inadequate as a man and need a cold shower.

I of all people no how fragile our self-image can be. Sorry if my detailed description of what I look like caused problems for anyone. You are all my friends and I am embarrassed to think that I may have done that.

Lee


Edited by Farmer Boy (01/08/13 04:46 PM)
Edit Reason: add
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#421484 - 01/08/13 09:02 AM Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Sorry about the change of title - It just seems so appropiate for our 'talk'. I have to admit that in my family the Vampire myth is a reality (except for me I hope. Lol)

So it has been a rough couple of days for me.

I think it has taken a little while for the stuff we talked about to sink in and to 'test' what he said against what I already know. I have come to realise that I can not 100% believe everything he said. He was obviously trying to make himself look 'less guilty'.

So his story.... Interview With A Vampire (Readers Digest Version)

Starts with my dad! My dad used to 'watch' him take a bath on his weekends when he was single. My brother would have been maybe 3-4. He said he never touched him but the way he looked at him naked in the bath freaked him out. (I can see that happening - my dad has made me feel weird too)

He told me about his crappy upbringing (living with his mum in trailer parks and the physical abuse from her boyfriends). He has another 6 half brothers and sisters from 4 different dads on his mum's side. He was never wanted at either house and my mum hated him. (I can see how he 'wins' on this one)

As suspected he was abused himself but all 'touchy feely', 'show and tell' stuff - volumns of it - but most with boys and girls of a similar age (always with the other child as the instigator) Hmmmm. There was one incident where some boys father took naked pics of the all together 'touching eachother) Not that that stuff isn't enough to mess you up but I assumed his abuse would be similar to what he did to me.

He told me what happened between him and my other brother (They were probably about 16 and 10 but he says 13 and 7) - which he says was initiated by my middle brother. They played 'Dick Surgery' (the same friend that abused me with my middle brother taught him the game). This continues for months and included oral, mutual J/Os and attempted anal. My half brother still takes responsibility because he was older. THIS WAS A SHOCK!!!! I had assumed that my half brother had abused my middle brother too - not that it was a mutual sexual relationship/experimentation thing. Now I have time to think about it - it makes sense - but makes me feel sick. This knowledge is by far one of the hardest things for me to get my head around.

He said that the stuff with my middle brother was 'worse' than with me - meaning more often and varied. I pointed out that they both had prior experience and were closer in age and that it was actually 'WORSE' what he did to me because I was only 3 or 4 and he was 10 years older and it was VERY one sided.

He said when he thinks about what he did it horrifies him that he actually did it - I believed him - it seemed genuine but now I'm not sure if he was just in damage control mode. Saying what I need to hear.

He also told me that he had made me tough him in 'my room'. I only have memories of stuff happening in 'his room'. This scares me that i can't remember that.

My parents never said anything to him about abusing me.

He still has unwanted urges around young teen girls - but he says he shuts them down and does not feed them. He has no SSA apparently - Traveler - looks like I didn't have to worry about being too hot. smirk

He assures me his son is safe and I believe him

Lee

PS - there is more I'm just not ready to say it here yet.


Edited by Farmer Boy (01/08/13 01:29 PM)
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More than meets the eye!

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#421507 - 01/08/13 11:57 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1509
Loc: New England
FB,

Every time you post on this thread, there is a cheer in Vermont! I love to see the good guys win for a change.

Jude
_________________________
"I get up, and nothing gets me down.
You got it tough. I've seen the toughest around.
And I know, baby, just how you feel.
You've got to roll with the punches to get to what's real"
Van Halen

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#421523 - 01/08/13 03:06 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thanks Jude - You are a 'legend'.

I just realised that in my attempt to cover what he told me I ended up down playing the most important part. So I will expand......
Quote:
He said when he thinks about what he did it horrifies him that he actually did it - I believed him - it seemed genuine but now I'm not sure if he was just in damage control mode. Saying what I need to hear.

He did say SORRY!!!

He said that he was truly sorry for what he did and that if he knew then how much pain it would cause he would not have done it. He said that he just thought it was a bit of fun - people tell you that you can do these things and you want to try them.

He tried to say he wasn't a real pedophile and I explained quite clearly to him that yes he is. His resosponse - nob, look down, 'oh...OK' . There is 10 years difference and a clear difference in power.

He said he wished someone had told him that it wasn't ok (in reality he should have known because he got in trouble more than once for show and tell). If show and tell is bad then surely putting your dick in a 3-4 year old's mouth is worse. I am aware of his need to downplay what happened and his concern that I will press charges against him.

But I have to remember - He did say sorry and he seemed to be sincere about it.

Lee
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#421648 - 01/09/13 11:11 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1509
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Thanks Jude - You are a 'legend'.


Hey, don't you have to be DEAD to be considered a legend? I'm not dead yet!

Jude
_________________________
"I get up, and nothing gets me down.
You got it tough. I've seen the toughest around.
And I know, baby, just how you feel.
You've got to roll with the punches to get to what's real"
Van Halen

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#421678 - 01/09/13 07:24 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Sorry ...My Bad .....

Jude - You are a LIVING Legend and I think you are awesome and I really 'get' your sense of humour.

Thanks for being here for me, Man. It means a lot.

Lee
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#421688 - 01/09/13 08:15 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:59 PM)

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#421691 - 01/09/13 08:22 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:59 PM)

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#421694 - 01/09/13 08:45 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser on FRIDAY [Re: Farmer Boy]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Lee. Good for you doing this. And I'm glad that you brother was as open and honest as he was able to be.

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#422024 - 01/13/13 10:46 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser on FRIDAY [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I am ready to tell more.....

First I think I should explain that I really didn't have much to do with him growing up. He was more like an uncle or older cousin than a brother. He did not show me any attention apart from the abuse. He lived with us every other weekend. I looked up to him. To me he was an adult - at 15-16 he was adult size. When he showed me affection in this way I lapped it up because I was never included in any big boy games and NEEDED to feel accepted loved. Dad ignored or verbally abused me. I thought I was special and loved him and I was sad when it stopped. I felt used and abandoned.

One of the things that I didn't meantion is that I found out that HE IS A CONVICTED CHILD SEX OFFENDER and on 'the list'. He also touched his 8 year old half sister's (on his mum's side) vagina on the outside once (accordingto him) - for this he was convicted and ordered to pay damages. She got $5000 in damages plus court costs. She pressed the charges 12 years ago (roughly 19 years after the fact).

This has really rattled me for a few reasons.

1. This makes it REAL. He wasn't just a mixed up teenage boy who made a mistake once. Between me, my other brother and his half sister that is three victims that he has admitted too. I was the youngest but my other brother was abused more frequently.
2. I was not 'special' - I was available
3. What he did to me was 'worse' than what he did to her and she got paid damages
4. He was obviously 'playing' me - telling me what he thought I needed to hear so I wouldn't press charges. So how can I trust anything he said???

I had always said that I didn't want to press charges even at 11 when I told my pastor and parents. (who chose to do NOTHING) After hearing about the case at first I said I didn't want to put myself or my family through that - plus he is already on the list so me coming forward isn't going to be any more help to other future victims.

I did/do truly believe that he has changed and is not a risk to anyone.

But then I started to think ..... how much is it worth??? What he did to me. What about all the pills and doctors and T sessions. Doesn't he owe me that. Plus he inherited a lot of money $100,000s of dollars from my uncle and I got nothing (through a family misunderstanding that was not anything to do with me). I have to admit that I wanted revenge. I wanted him to pay.

Then when i realised that (even though he IS a pathetic indiviual) he was trying really hard to get the sympathy vote. His whole sob story about his background and the abuse that led up to it and how the stuff he did to us wasn't his fault really - but he still takes responsibility for it and is sorry.

I knew he would try to minimize what he did. But the reality of sitting there with him talking about it in a normal conversation type voice - very matter of fact. It really got into my head. I didn't let it show in front of him. I made sure I stuck to the plan and didn't let him off the hook. But afterwards - on the way home I started to think that I had it all wrong - it wasn't really that bad - so he made me suck his thing and touch him etc - it didn't really do me any harm. His life is worse than mine so it can't have affected me that much. What is the big deal?

This made me more mad.

But now I have come to accept that I do not want to put myself through court. It will not help my recovery.

I think I can still forgive him and being realistic he was only a teenager who didn't fully understand the damage he was causing. But he was old enough to know it was wrong and I will not take any resposibility for what happened - it is ALL on him. It was his fault. He should have known better. He used me as a toy to practice on and that is NOT ok.

While he has tried to minimise what he did I do think he is actually sorry for what he did. (at least for the way it affected his own life - depression, crimial charges/court, suicide attemps, failed marriages).

I am willing to be the bigger person here. I will forgive him. Not because he deserves it but because it is in my power to do so. I deserve it.

Looking back that has more to do with being a 'real' man than my physical appearance or worldly status.

Lee
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#422025 - 01/13/13 11:00 PM Re: Going to 'talk' to my abuser on FRIDAY [Re: Farmer Boy]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
I don't think that I could forgive.

You are one hell of a man Lee.

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#422699 - 01/20/13 07:50 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I have had some time to reflect on my journey over the last month or so. Hmmmm.

I guess I just want to offer up some advice for someone else thinking about doing this. BE very very careful!!!

Now I have been pretty upfront about the fact that I was not afraid of him. I was confident that I was a 'better man' in statue and status. I was also 'ok' with the fact that he might have a different view of 'what happened between us'. Sorry I got into the habit of saying it like that so as to not openly accuse him of raping me and him get defensive.

He is my brother and I forgive him for what he did, I understand how he thought it was ok and I will still have contact with him ..... however I will not allow him to be close to me like a normal brother would be AND the is no way in hell I will EVER EVER EVER leave him alone with either of my children.

The truth is he IS a pedophile. He has been convicted of sexually assaulting a child. He is a registered Child Sex Offender. I know he has done it to at least three children. Even though he says that this stopped around the age of 16 - he admitted he still struggles with a desire for young girls. It is still in him.

While he said clearly that what he did was wrong, he minimised it by saying that it really wasn't his fault because of the sexual and physical abuse he suffered and his crappy upbringing.
How many guys are there here that were abused in every way possible including sexually and yet DID NOT sexually abuse their younger brothers??? There is something wrong with him!

I went into this meeting with the understanding that I was 'playing' him to get the information I wanted .... and I did. But he was playing me too - I can see that now. He was trying to make me feel sympathy for him so I wouldn't put him through going to court again. He minimized the abuse and his responsibilty for it. He said what he thought I wanted to hear "I'm sorry - I am horrified at what I did to you." But the kind of person that does these things to small children and can justify them is someone not to be underestimated. While I was determined to be strong (and I was) in our meeting. The act of sitting there with him while we drank tea, casually and calmly chatted for 3 1/2 hours about the things he did to me and others really took it's toll on me. He got into my head.

Sitting there with that crap going into my head really messed with me. It didn't hit me until the drive home but he manipulated me into believing that it wasn't really that bad. It is only bad if I make it bad. He was a victim as much as me. He also made me believe that what he did with my other brother (who is 6 years younger than him) was part of a mutual and loving brotherly relationship - that it was mutual experimentation. He even tried to fudge their ages to make himself look less guilty (saying they were 10 and 12 - AS if I didn't KNOW they are 6 years apart). For a week or more I was struggling with the fact that my brothers had a loving sexual relationship that I was not a part of. I felt so left out.... and used .... but after talking to my friends here about it - it hit me..... NO a 10 year old can not have a mutual and healthy sexual relationship with a 16 year old. That was not OK. It was CSA. My other brother and me had always had an understanding without saying anything that our half brother had abused us both. I had assumed what he did to me was worse (because it was BAD) but it appears he did the same stuff more frequently with my other brother. In some ways what he did to me was worse because I was 3 when it first started and 5 or 6 when he first made me perform oral sex on him. My older brother was 10 and had already sexually experimented with other boys his own age.

When I was a child he lead me to believe that he cared about me and this was something special older brothers do to teach their little brothers about 'how to be one of the big boys'. As part of his story he implicated our father as sexually abusing him by 'watching' him. Now as soon as he said that I could identify with that and could agree that my dad was 'a bit funny like that'. I had not considered it CSA because he never touched us. But he was a perv and did talk to us about 'dirty' stuff and called us names like faggot and poofter.

The whole process really made me question my definition of CSA.

Can I call it rape when he 'only' manipulated me into giving him oral sex at 5 or is it 'just' sexual abuse?
Did my father sexually abuse us even though he didn't touch us?
Could my brothers have had a sexual relationship on an equal level even though they where 6 years apart?
How far does this pattern of CSA go?
Am I just making a big deal about nothing?

So now I have everything back in order in my head (I think) - but boy did he rattle things up in there.

Never underestimate a perpetrator - they are cunning and manipulative and can be charming too.

Lee


Edited by Farmer Boy (01/20/13 07:52 AM)
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More than meets the eye!

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#422704 - 01/20/13 09:52 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 285
Loc: MO
To Farmer Boy

I was afraid to read or respond to your "Thread(s)". I could not imagine contacting the 26 year old man who raped and abused the 13-14 year old me.

And my older brother was my first molester, begining when I was 10. My experience with my brother was mostly his shrugging it off as normal for anyone who was abused would abuse others. He could not really remember what had happened to him, but we could compare notes about when we were 8 and 10, or 6 and 8 and identify the photographer who took pictures of us (and my little brother too)with our underpants on our heads. And maybe he abused my older brother. I can't say that would suprise me.

But, being 10 and having my brother ejaculate on me, or 12 and having me suck him wAS far less traumatic than your experience at the hamnds of your brother. Was it rape? If the penetration of any vaginal, anal or oral orifice is achieved, it is rape.

Are you just making a big deal about nothing? No. You were violated, manipulated, used by an individual you should have been able to trust. Only one out of three individuals who experience sexual abuse go on to become perpetrators. So it is not average, but it is not uncommon.

I have forgiven my brother, but I still remember when I wanted to kill him.

I still know that it was under his control, and not mutual experimentation. His experiementation on my and my little brother may have not been "Unreasonable," but it was a violation, particularly when it was not mutual but anded after he got his, and then beraTING ME AS A HOMOSEXUAL (BEFORE i KNEW what a homosexual was). This is part of my story and I am impressed with your care, consideration and process of healing and including the confrontation with your abuser.

Even now, I have that gut wrenching want to vomit fear reaction just writing this. Thanks for your model of bravery, both in what you did and in the detail with which you shared your experience.


Edited by genedebs (01/20/13 10:01 AM)

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#422741 - 01/20/13 07:22 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thanks genedebs

I am so so so sorry that you know what it is like to have your brother use you that way too. To have him be your first abuser. And like everyone here always says (and I agree) there is no hierarchy of abuse - it ALL f#cks us up. However the thing that bothers me about him being abused as well is that everything he described to me did not involve physical touch - so why did he take it to penetration with me?? He didn't learn that from his abuse.

Thank you for sharing part of your story with me/us. It does help to know that I am not the only one whose brother did this too them.

I still find it hard to say that my own brother raped me - but by your definition there is no doubt.

Quote:
I have forgiven my brother, but I still remember when I wanted to kill him.
me too.

Thanks for your kind words but I do not feel very brave - just stumbling along trying to find my way towards recovery.

Lee

PS I want to vomit too.
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#422745 - 01/20/13 08:15 PM * [Re: Farmer Boy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 02:12 PM)

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#422784 - 01/21/13 12:41 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3363
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Hey, Lee - you are processing this really well IMHO. you phrased these as questions - but i think you already know the answers:

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
The whole process really made me question my definition of CSA.

Can I call it rape when he 'only' manipulated me into giving him oral sex at 5 or is it 'just' sexual abuse?
Did my father sexually abuse us even though he didn't touch us?
Could my brothers have had a sexual relationship on an equal level even though they where 6 years apart?
How far does this pattern of CSA go?
Am I just making a big deal about nothing?


YES - it is rape - and "only" does not even belong in this sentence!!!

it IS possible for abuse to occur through words, exposure to a hostile and inappropriately sexualized atmosphere and being subjected to voyeurism - what it sounds like you had.

any time the difference between the two parties is significant - in age, power, experience, and the younger or weaker is being coerced into sexual acts, it is most likely an abusive situation. i believe most definitions for minors cite more or less than 3 years as the standard.

God only knows with the others... BUT with you - it stops!

you are NOT making a big deal out of nothing. IT IS A BIG DEAL - and IT WAS NOT NOTHING!!! just look at the toll it has taken on your life to see that.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#422785 - 01/21/13 02:32 AM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
The whole process really made me question my definition of CSA.

Can I call it rape when he 'only' manipulated me into giving him oral sex at 5 or is it 'just' sexual abuse?

In many countries even the legal system considers it rape. My T told me, not long ago, that my reaction to being forced to suck my foster-father's dick would these days be called "rape trauma syndrome". Yes, oral rape is rape.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Did my father sexually abuse us even though he didn't touch us?

It is very possible, yes. He exposed you to an environment that was not appropriate for your age. He failed to protect you. In my mind, that is also abuse.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Could my brothers have had a sexual relationship on an equal level even though they where 6 years apart?

No. There is a reason why just about every country in the world have age-of-consent laws. A child isn't mentally and emotionally capable of "informed consent", and consent that isn't informed is not consent. Besides, is anything EVER equal between children who are 6 years apart?

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
How far does this pattern of CSA go?

It stops with you. That is all that matters.

Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Am I just making a big deal about nothing?

No. If it wasn't a big deal, you'd have been able to shrug it off. The fact that you can't, and the fact that you needed to come here and discuss it with other male survivors, means it IS a big deal. You have the right to feel they way you do!
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#422828 - 01/21/13 03:06 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1509
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Farmer Boy
Can I call it rape when he 'only' manipulated me into giving him oral sex at 5 or is it 'just' sexual abuse?
Rape implies the use of physical force. But what difference does it make? Either way its affected you deeply throughout your life.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
Did my father sexually abuse us even though he didn't touch us?
I think that 'leering' can be sexual abuse as well.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
Could my brothers have had a sexual relationship on an equal level even though they where 6 years apart?
NO! As you said, 10 year olds do not have "loving sexual relationships" with ANYBODY EVER.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
How far does this pattern of CSA go?
Its sounds like its a family-wide. The less you have to do with those characters, the better.

Originally Posted By: Farmerboy
Am I just making a big deal about nothing?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! You brothers primary goal in speaking with you, was to convince you that it was all no big deal. Boys will be boys. BULLSHIT! Count how many ways your life was changed for the worse because of his sexual abuse. The damage to you IS a big deal.

FB, you were the winner in that meeting, not only for having the courage to do it in the first place, but for not letting him excuse himself by claiming it was just 'boyhood experimentation' or because he was 'abused' himself, or because it was 'so long ago'. Flex your muscles, beat your chest, and roar like King Kong. You did it.

Jude
_________________________
"I get up, and nothing gets me down.
You got it tough. I've seen the toughest around.
And I know, baby, just how you feel.
You've got to roll with the punches to get to what's real"
Van Halen

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#423144 - 01/24/13 07:59 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I've been re-reading your replies and I need to say thanks to Gary, Traveler, Gecko and Jude. I have no words to say how much it means to me that you guys (and everyone else who reads this)give a crap.

Traveler was right I did know the answers to those questions (they were kind of rhetorical). BUT I am so glad I asked them.

All your responses have helped validate my own thoughts and feelings about what happened to me as a small boy and have helped me to accept that 'IT WAS NOT MY FAULT'. For 30+ years I have been telling myself that I was a dirty little boy who did dirty things. I have been blaming myself. To be honest that was easier to accept, to live with than the idea that I grew up in such systemically abusive environment.

After Soccerstar's post about oral rape being officially recongised in the states I have done my own research in Australia. It does make me feel less of a whimp about the whole thing knowing that if everyone who ever did anything sexually abusive to me was convicted it would add up to roughly 70-80 years in jail. That is a big deal! I think I might cut myself some slack now when I spaceout or get depressed or angry.

IT IS NOT MY FAULT! ..... It wasn't your fault either!

Lee
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#423170 - 01/24/13 11:50 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
uptownguy Offline


Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 6
Loc: chicago
I think one thing to keep in mind is that your brother more than likely has a personality disorder. Have you confronted your folks? Surely they must have realized that your brother was not ok and should not have been left unsupervised with young children. It was their responsibility to keep you safe and they failed to do that.

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#423297 - 01/26/13 03:31 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Uptown,

I have not considered that my brother could have a personality disorder.... other than possibly pedophillia. He seems 'normal' and has friends etc. On a side note I just realised that both his wives were little, blonde, flat chested, barely legal, 18 year old girls when they got married. I remember them having to wait until their birthdays to get married. Hmmm Makes you think doesn't it.

When he abused me everyone else was in the house. It would happen early on Sunday mornings - while everyone else had a sleep in. At first he would sneak into my room (we were at opposite ends of a hall). That started when I was 3. With the doors open we could see eachother in bed and he would show/teach me stuff from his end of the hall. Then he got me to sneak into his room where he orally raped me. All while my middle brother slept in the room between us (I hope he was sleeping) and my parents were at the other end of the house.

As for my parents I did tell them when I was 11. We were at the dinner table and there was a news report on the TV about a rapist being caught and my dad said 'The stupid F##king B#itch got what she deserved' (or something very much like that). I lost it and started crying, yelled something at him and ran to my room. I refused to talk to anyone but out pastor. He came the next day and made me tell my parents. I told them what happened and that I didn't want to cause trouble for my brother because he was about to marry wife #1. So my parents did nothing. Did not say a word to my brother, did not get me counselling and we never spoke of it again. My half brother had already been caught with his pants down trying to f#ck my other brother up the arse by my mother 6 years earlier. I am still mad at my parents for listening to an 11 year old and 'not causing trouble'. I have thought about confronting them now about the neglect for my wellbeing but I honestly don't know what the point of it would be.

Lee
_________________________
More than meets the eye!

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#423302 - 01/26/13 04:27 PM Re: Interview With A Vampire [Re: Farmer Boy]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Lee,

I'm sorry they failed you so grotesquely. It's not my story but I personally would find it unforgivable.

Turned out a good guy and great dad regardless. That's something to be really proud of - something inside - that you had to work and struggle to achieve. The cruelties and neglect of your past are overspoken by the comfort you give your kids now. They're lucky to have you. Every day, guys here (and those not here but with similar stories) prove that it is possible to break the chain of cruelty. You've gone above and beyond the call in your share of that.

Matt
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My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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