Many here at MS know the story of Johnny Gosch. It was 30 years ago on September 5 that 12-year-old Johnny was abducted from Des Moines, Iowa.

I just happen to come across a notice that MSNBC is preparing a documentary on the subject, and thought others at MS might want a head's up.

The air date is scheduled for December 16 at 9 pm eastern.

Below is the link and the description from the website.

Cant


http://johnnygosch.com/

MSNBC’s dynamic news documentary series Maximum Drama continues to present thought-provoking stories with the premiere of “Missing Johnny,” an examination of the infamous thirty-year-old cold case of missing child Johnny Gosch –the first missing child to appear on a milk carton- on Sunday, December 16th at 9 pm ET. “Missing Johnny” focuses on the heartbreaking story of Johnny’s mother, Noreen Gosch, and her relentless quest to find the truth about her missing son.

“Missing Johnny,” chronicles the endless intrigue and conspiracy theories surrounding the eyewitness sightings, physical evidence and case-turning discoveries which span across three decades. The documentary intertwines original interviews of all the main characters with archival news footage, home video and film material spanning 30 years. Interviews include the last adult to see Johnny, the West Des Moines police captain and a convicted child molester who says he took part in Johnny’s abduction.

The Maximum Drama series takes viewers to the places that are usually considered off limits and out of bounds. The season includes fascinating stories such as an investigation into the human trafficking industry in “Sex Slaves: Chicago,” as well as the premiere of “Ted Bundy’s Death Row Tapes.”

There are things about the Gosch case that are unbelievably creepy even by pedo kidnapping standards.

TRIGGERS - KIDNAPPING, RAPE

The mother, Noreen Gosch, has several times over the years been sent photos of boys who had been bound and gagged, some of them pretty clearly in tears and distress. One of them sure seems widely agreed to be the real Johnny Gosch post-kidnapping - wraring the same pants he was in on his last day at home. The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children seems to find them genuine. She put most of them up on her website, but says there are others she was sent that she cannot post, pictures showing Johnny and other boys soon after their rapes, with rectal bleeding.

She also swears that Johnny visited her once afterwards, describing a bizarre middle-of-the-night meeting with a then 27-year-old Johnny and a slightly older man, to whom Johnny behaved subserviently and had to ask for approval to speak. Allegedly, Johnny had escaped from a pedophile ring, was in mortal terror for his life, and had to live in secret under a fake name. He left very soon and has never contacted her again.

There is no corroborating evidence whatsoever for that meeting. Maybe the poor woman, after a decade of loss and heartbreak and seeing things no mother should see, went nuts or got drunk and hallucinated, or some merger of that.

Or... maybe it's true. *shudders*

This is one of the photos from the Johnny Gosch web site



All images are from the johnnygosch website:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

They guy who kidnapped me at age 12 was an expert at tying knots and used the type of rope shown in this photo. Same precistion work. He taught the rope-tying class at the Boy Scout Camp. Does that mean anything? I can't get anybody to pay attention to this detail. I WAS TIED WITH THE SAME KIND OF KNOTS IN THE SAME KIND OF ROPE. I know, go down to the local hardware store and buy more rope......





Puffer

There are only so many ways you can usefully tie up another person. All the styles might have converged from the same military training manual. Shawn Hornbeck described being tied up much the same way - 25 years after Johnny Gosch and probably 40 years after you, Pufferfish.

Those pictures give me the creeping horrors. Who does this kind of shit?!?!??

***Triggering***

Yes, I suppose that kind of thing might have happened at various times. Yet there is the matter of the method of operation. There seems to be a matter of "style" in the use of clean, new, hemp ropes tied with a meticulous attention to type of knot.

However, I wasn't tied in that position. I think that's called 'hog-tying', and it's for restraint. On the Johnny Gosch web site it says that those were 'trophy photos'.

I know that my abuser was an expert at knots because he showed us the booth at the camp where he taught the use of knots. He demonstrated the tying of various knots with that same kind of hemp rope. Every kind of knot was demonstrated in front of the booth. It was quite intriguing. After leaving the knot-tying booth he led us up a wooded path to the top of a hill. On the way he was pointing out the different kinds of trees. He made a comment about the slippery elm tree... I even mention that in my pufferfish story part 5. The next booth was actually a rustic floor with a roof and lots of tables around for making leaf imprints. To a 12-year-old it was quite intriguing.

I know that the knots Johnny is tied with have specific names, which I don't remember for sure. There are names such as clove-hitch, half-hitch etc. I think that in the photo the boy's legs are tied with the same kind of knot used to tie logs together. His hands are tied too tightly and they are turning red, so the circulation has been impeded. The knot on the wrists may be called a 'clove hitch'.

I was tied in a different position. He took me out of bed while I was sleeping. I awoke nude and face-up, one arm tied (with that kind of rope) to each bedpost and one ankle to the other bedposts, etc., etc. The position is called the 'spreadeagle'. sex position. I think he used that term but not that night.

The mood of my captivity was similar to that shown in the above photos. Desolate, lonely, helpless, hopeless. Yes, in that sense it is quite provocative to me too, but for me it's a memory. So it's yes, I've "been there, done that" in the sense of having been held captive like that. Perhaps he even enjoyed that aspect of abuse of making somebody captive and subduing their will.

Puffer

((((((((Puffer)))))))

Soccer, the people that do this, their day will come.

Cant

Thank you guys, for your comfort for something which never quite heals.

There is a significant thread here at MS on "Kidnap Survival":

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...true#Post318937

There are a bunch of us who report having been kidnapped. There is a post from a rare survivor of the psychopath Clifford Olson who kidnapped and killed boys.

I have recently finished reading the book about Aaron Fisher's ordeal at the hands of Jerry Sandusky. I learned many good things from that book. One of them was that those abusers are looking for a certain type of victim, or a certain type of boy. They are seeking a profile of the type of boy they want to molest. So it makes sense to me that my abuser was looking for something which he found in me (unfortunately ). He didn't have time to groom me. He used brutal force.

Puffer

Puffer I'm more than sure that sadistic abusers are doing it because of feelings of helplessness, desolation and fear in eyes of victims
These pictures are because of that very very troublesome for me, I can see how they looked on that children-victims, absolute domination (and beyond) was only goal of such treatment, if it is needed destruction has been applied till victim wasn't brought to the weakest spot between reality and loss of consciousness, between life and death where sense of lost is the strongest
It is true that they are looking for some type of victims. That sometimes doesn't include only "look", for example will to fight till last moment and instincts shown during such torture could be equally of interest


(((Puffer)))

Here is a thread in which I show my pictures before and after the torture/abuse thing at age 12.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...0799#Post350799

It actually took me quite a while to put all these pictures together. I knew I didn't like some of the pictures. Then it dawned on me that my distorted facial expression and posture were actually symptoms of what I had experienced.

Here is a picture of me immediately after being set free:



Contrast this with my picture in the avatar.

Puffer

(((((Puffer))))) I've told you this before - I'm so glad you survived.

The similarity of binding methods has not gone unnoticed in other forums.

ANOTHER TRIGGERING TIED-UP KID PHOTO
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5139055&postcount=18

This is another picture sent to Noreen Gosch. On the right is disappeared kid Steven Kraft. There is a good resemblence. The binding methods match those described by Shawn Hornbeck. Based on the date and location of his disappearance there is a lot of speculation in Internet and law enforcement circles that the same perp (Michael Devlin) did Kraft too. Devlin denies having other victims, but since he would have to have killed any others, that's what you would say if you wanted to avoid the death penalty isn't it?

No one will ever know.

The question at this point is: Who did it?

Another contributor to the Kidnap Survival thread suggested that I view a documentary. (kidneythis)

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=422150&page=1

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...8937#Post318937

I followed his suggestion and about a third of the way through I saw some frames in which I recognized my abuser when I was 12.

It had to be that kidney had encountered my abuser when he was being mistreated in a New Jersey center. He recognized that I had been abused by the same person and so he offered me the video link in which I visually identified my abuser.

This is the doccumentary:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/cia-secret-experiments/

This is a screen-capture of him. He's the tall man with the black tie, in the military uniform. He's standing with his arms folded:



Or, in a closeup view:



If this is really him, and I believe it is, then this gives us a lot of information about him.

Puffer

I'm sorry if I'm pushing this too hard. It's just that it's caused a lot of pain. It didn't get better on it's own.

This is 2 weeks after the camp:


This is me at Christmas time, age 13, or 1 1/2 years after trauma:


This is age 14, or 2 1/2 years after the trauma. Taken at school:


Puffer

((((((((Puffer))))))))))

Never apologize. Not here.

You can tell us what happened to you as many times as you need to. We love you so much. Our brother; our uncle.

Cant

*** triggering ***

How can I say this? My "gut" feeling has always been that he tried to "snuff" me. I claim that I saw another boy snuffed on Wednesday night. He repeatedly threatened to kill me and said I could or would show up as a drowning victim. The camp was near a large body of water, the Chesapeake Bay.

But when I say that, ... it immediately sounds suspicious to people. 'Well if you were snuffed then why are you typing this post right now?' So I just have to tell it as I remember it. Some of this came up in EMDR.

Wednesday night another boy came into the isolated tent where the abuse was taking place. I didn't know the boy. The boy was briefly introduced by first name. I think I remember that his name was Bobby. He had reddish-blond hair in a crew cut and he had a roundish face. I think he was 13. The perp put us into a '3-way'. He then snuffed the other boy by deep-throating him. He told me 'Look what you did, you killed him'. He carried the boy out of the tent. The boy was very limp. He wanted me to feel like I did it. Then the next night he deep-throated me. I passed out. I thought I had been killed but I came back out of it. I saw light all around before coming out. This is how they describe near-death experiences. Even some of the therapists I told this to didn't believe me.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=418699#Post418699

Another clinical observer, looking at my pictures afterward, said I had experienced blunt force trauma. All I knew of was that it was snuffing by deep-throating.

Afterward I was quite confused. But if I even say this it tends to refute what I'm saying. So I just go ahead and say it.

Many years later, after remembering this stuff, I searched the archives of the Washington Post and found a number of instances of boys' bodies showing up as having been drowned.

Puffer

*** May be triggering or annoying to some ***

As a 12-year-old little boy I of course had little insight as to how the abuse I experienced would fit into a larger picture.

I have been reading a book which I think gives a lot of insight as to how my experience in being abused for 2 weeks at scout camp fit into a larger picture. The book is: The Franklin Scandal: A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal, by Nick Bryant.

http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Scandal-Story-Powerbrokers-Betrayal/dp/1936296071/

The problem was that my abuse took place in 1951. I had no idea that it might be linked to events way outside of my experience.

The first thing that happened was that the abuser visited my mother while I was at school in November 1951. I was appalled when I came home from school and learned of it. He brought a leather badge of accomplishment that I had "attended Camp Theodore Roosevelt". It heightened my fear. He knew who I was and where I lived. He had threatened to find me and kill me if I ever "told". The threats were accompanied by placing the point of a hunting knife against my ribs so I could feel it.

But this book on the Franklin Scandal seems to open up a lot of insight as to what happened. There is an entire chapter in this book on child abuse and sex rings in Washington DC. There was a pedophile ring leader named Craig Spence,

http://franklinscandal.com/

http://franklinscandal.com/franklinscandal_wdcinfo1.html

I identified the photo of my abuser in a previous post, where he is wearing a military uniform. The setting of the picture is a high-level meeting about the testing of LSD on civilians and military personnel.

On page 315 of the book I cite above, it says that




These statements seemed to agree with my experience and shed light on it.

Another quote from this book, The Franklin Scandal:



OK. Now to return to another aspect of my experience, I was abused at a summer camp for boys... I found the following reference to experimentation in the use of LSD on children in summer camps. I was not subjected to LSD in 1951 (fortunately). The book I cite is: A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, From the Cold War to the War on Terror, by Alfred W. McCoy.

http://www.amazon.com/Question-Torture-Interrogation-American-Project/dp/0805082484/



So, yes, I think this is an allusion to experimentation on children in summer camps. Yes I was a child in a summer camp. I think my abuser had easy access to children in summer camps. I think he used that as a jumping-off-place for abuse and even experimentation on children. This seems to augment my experience where I thought he was experimenting with torture and brain-washing techniques.

Puffer

That's... the same Bonacci who swears as a young teen held by a pedo ring he was forced to help kidnap Johnny Gosch? The one Noreen Gosch believes? The one who'd had all 10 of his fingers broken and was found credible in a court of law that ruled in his favor?

Holy shit Puffer... stay strong...!

I've started receiving suspicious telephone calls, so I must be on-target.

Puffer

Edited:

I only received one "silent" phone call. No other problems have developed. I'm OK.

Yes it was the same Bonacci. I've never met him. I've only read about him in those books and seen vids of him. He went through much worse than I did.

I had just started my years of recovery when I saw the posters about Johnny Gosch. I was deeply affected and would break into tears over them. I snitched one of them and I still have it.

Puf

Puffer - please keep yourself SAFE!

i have followed your thread with interest and concern. i have nothing else to contribute beyond the fact that i believe you and support you in your quest for truth and accountability.

just - be CAREFUL!
Lee

Oh wow, Puffer. This is scary.

I agree with Lee - please keep yourself safe!

There was only one scary call. It was only the type that the phone rings and when you answer it there is just silence... No threats or anything. No more calls. I slept securely and I'm OK.

Puffer

It is helping me a lot to see that what I went through when I was 12 was part of a much larger scheme of things.

I've been reading more about MK-Ultra and it's origins and it's practices.

I believe I see now that my perp. was part of a much larger scheme. It was 1951. The Korean war had recently ended, and some of our soldiers had returned having been brain-washed and tortured by North Koreans, and in what was called Red China then. The feeling on this side of the pond was that our intelligence services were weak, and that our 'boys' (soldiers) were being brain-washed and we didn't know anything about it. My abuser's father was part of organizing a new military intelligence operation. He had become preeminent during World War II and he then became the one to assume that responsibility. They wanted to be able to combat the brain-washing going on in North Korea and adjoining Chinese territories, and even do them one better. This conflict continues even today as we see the North Koreans firing a successful rocket into space (only yesterday).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/weekinreview/06weiner.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

So Our newly-appointed intelligence services started up (Forgive me please if I'm a little bit inaccurate here as I was only a small child then. I have had to connect the dots in many cases where I had incomplete information). They wanted a military intelligence (now the NSA) and a civilian intelligence, which became the CIA. They had some lavish dreams, apparently, which seemed to justify experimentation on human beings, including children. Although this has been hushed up, there is evidence that children were used in all kinds of experiments, including administration of hallucinogens (LSD) and creation of multiple personality disorder. They used torture, isolation, degradation, sexual activities in that objective.

I have several sources of information on this. Some of them I cited in my previous post.

Bluebird: Deliberate Creation of Multiple Personality by Psychiatrists, by Colin A. Ross, MD.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/cia_mind_control_experiments_sex_abuse

So, my abuser, because of his relationship to the general setting up the intelligence services, must have come to have a roll in the instigation of these services. They were intelligent, forceful, and creative people. My abuser apparently had the quality of being brutal. He was allocated this role and since he had recently emerged from scouting in the Washington area and from an honored college. He was respected in scouting circles and so it must have led to a dual role, to be helpful in scouting activities while carrying out some of the early experiments leading to MK-Ultra, Project Bluebird, and Project Artichoke.

It was 1951. I happened to be going to the scout camp for the greater Washington area. My abuser had a role as one of the important "leadership" persons there. He must have sized me up as a possible candidate for his abuse, which he would have thought to be part of a larger program in how to learn to brainwash and program people for other uses.





So I was abused by him in a tent. I have previously written descriptions of what I went through. There was no LSD, as far as I know, and no electric shock, since it was in a camping setting and we didn't have electricity there. But I got everything else: restraint by being tied with ropes, degratation (being shitted and peed on), forced sex with him and other boys, brainwashing with a knife, and torture by having various stuff thrust up my ass. I watched another boy killed. An attempt was made to kill me also by smothering by deep throating. It was very damaging, to say the least.

Puffer

Puffer,

You are very brave to make these connections and to say them out loud. I believe you, as do many others here.

It would be nice to hear from therapy professionals whose eyes have been opened to this reality, and what they think we should do about it.

The waters were muddied back in the 90s with "False Memory Syndrome" after the first wave of disclosure on this subject. That appears to have made professionals afraid to speak out for fear of being marginalized by their colleagues.

And that's a shame.

Cant

*** This is scary and provocative ***





Brain Washing Techniques and Mind Control:

Now that I'm pretty sure that I went through an early version of this as a child, I think it's necessary to point out to others what happened. I think I went through this and emerged out the other side now. What I went through was fairly crude compared to later descriptions. I want to make it clear what went on. ... Yes, I'm just figuring it out myself. I'm just becoming aware of this in a broader context. Why am I doing this? Civic duty. Yes, I am concerned about doing this. Yes I don't need any more destruction in my life than what I've already experienced.

This is my story. It's pretty much exactly as I first remembered it. It's pretty nasty.
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...9028#Post219028

There are 2 movies on the Manchurian Candidate which I haven't seen yet. Both of them are called Manchurian Candidate. One is a fairly recent and the other is from 1962 but about events in the 1950's (my timeline).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manchurian_Candidate

The 2004 film:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368008/

The 1964 film with Frank Sinatra etc.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056218/
Notice that the time setting of this movie (1952) was close timewise to what I experienced.


Documentary film on basic mind control techniques:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/cia-secret-experiments/

A document on this subject:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol10pg

A book on this: (see page 329) The Franklin Cover-up
http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Cover-up-Satanism-Murder-Nebraska/dp/0963215809/


There was an effort to make certain people mind-controlled slaves. They were originally called Manchurian Candidates. They would on a secret command take on a task which would normally be quite foreign to their personalities. Afterward they would either completely forget the incident (amnesia) or they would dispose of their own self.

Two of the types of mind-control slaves to produce:
1) Assassins. People who would, under a secret signal which could be sent by a telephone message or TV etc, become a killer.

2) Sex slaves. People who would make themselves available for certain activities such as pornography, oral sex, other...

I believe that I was programmed to respond sexually in certain environmental contexts. I think it was oral. I lost some really good friends and I never knew why. Don't think that it was fun for me. It was disastrous. I was the last one to know. It ruined my life more than it otherwise would have been. The generic homily for this is turning into a green monster who people later want to destroy.

Since these programs were started in the early 50's, it can be assumed that they have become more sophisticated in years hence.

Puffer

Jeff,

That's an excellent and helpful response to my post. I also talked it over with my T this afternoon, and he was affirmative about the dots I had managed to connect. It had an immediately helpful effect on my own psyche. After putting these things together and writing about it, I felt an immediate sense of relief and freedom from an anxiety I've had since being a little boy.

Puffer

Jeff & Puffer,

You two are heroes to so many of us here. For you to have endured so and survived, both of you are special people.

You give us all strength and hope.

Cant

Jeff,

Truth is our friend; it sets us free.

Cant

Hey Cant,

I realize that in spades. Since you helped me so much putting together my past I do feel much more free. thanks so much.

Peace,Rainbows & Healing
Jeff

I'm so happy seeing Jeff looking into overall picture and seeing how wild and dangerous things were back than.
I hate the most cases when abusers used physical torture to make innocent victims obedient, it is awful, it is violent and it is very difficult to deal with.
Abusers (monsters) are using so devastating and destructive force that many years are not enough for healing.

I'll just add (((Puffer and Jeff))) you both are our heroes!

Pero

If they were able to turn up the pain level slowly instead of "on/off" or "low/high", plus it being scaled for, uh, access to a human body, then I believe it was probably a picana rod: inspired by cattleprod but redesigned in the dungeons of South American fascist regimes in the 1930s for the sole purpose of torturing humans. Political prisoners. They came to be used worldwide.

These guys didn't improvise at the Home Depot, they got a legit human torture tool from someone whose job it was to use them. It does bring up the question of connections and networks.

You can look it up "picana" on Wikipedia, but DO NOT Google, trust me.

Wires attached = definitely NOT a cattleprod, because those need to be self-contained to allow for use on moving, evading targets. External wires connect to an external power source - because the target is immobilized. Because it's a professional fascist torture device.

I'm sorry, Jeff. Sorry you were exposed to that freakshow, and more than a little bit sorry that I'm focusing on it with you now in such lurid detail. I really only do so for two reasons:

1. To make plain that there was never any doubt you were going to break and obey, because that's what professional torturers design their sole-use human torture devices to do

And

2. To illustrate that in a way it was better off for the "omega victims" that it was you involved and not someone else. Because everybody reading this knows there would have been some 14-year-olds out there, crazy sociopath street kids, who would have leapt at the chance to use that picana rod themselves and crank up the voltage on the littler kids. You KNOW that could just as easily have happened.

Oh god Jeff I am so sorry, I an so sorry, I can't believe what an oblivious clueless fucking idiot I was when I wrote that; I was trying to offer a historical factual clue that I figured would help but I was way out of line to bring the rest in, I am so sorry, I hurt you and I'm sorry. I'm like that asshole computer guy in Titanic whizzing up a simulation of how the ship sank and rattling off every disaster stat while meanwhile the actual survivor is right there remembering all the people who suffered and died. I was totally oblivious to what I was saying, I should have stopped with the basic historic fact and then shut my damn mouth, this is supposed to be a safe place and I had no right to confront you with your deepest pain like it was some fucking footnote. I am so ashamed of myself, I'd delete it right now but it's too late.

I never meant to trigger you Jeff, you have only ever been kind and welcoming to me and I am so sorry, I didn't mean things to go that far. I am still new to this and I really fucked up, I should have known better. I can't believe I brought you back there again like a fucking asshole and I'm hiding in my house now crying from shame because I hurt you. Again I am so sorry and ashamed for my cluelessness. There was only one historical fact I contributed here and the rest I had no business bringing up at all. If I'd thought it through for 10 seconds I never ever would have said the rest and I can only offer you my most ashamed apologies.

Hey Jeff, it is good that you shared all your burden with us.
It must be very difficult for you man, I can imagine that would be even harder if you didn't tell.
You are not wasted human and your mother was not right at all, I have to say that your parents because of some reason were terrible cold and bad parents, you needed love and care and you got nothing but neglect. And that I call being inhuman.
It is hurting me seeing how much you are in pain because of devastating things that happen to you (yes all that happen to you, you didn't ask for it nor you have had some choice to avoid it; you were forced by sadistic abusers).
Please be calm, I like you very much and it is inspiring seeing you trying your best in search for healing.
And yes we all know what person you are, you are very sensitive, carrying, warm and terrible nice person
I feel blessed that I meet you, here is my warmest hug for adult Jeff from present and that very brave and very lonely 14 years old boy that is still alive inside
(((Jef)))

I would just like to take a moment to wish everyone here a

Merry, Merry Christmas Holiday Season.

lets hope next year will be a little bit better.

Peace,Rainbows & Healing
Jeff

Jeff

You weren't really a prostitute. You were fleeing from a bitter home situation. You acquired the bitterness of being a street child who was making money for a pimp who probably became wealthy from it. You were being used by the wealthy and powerful to satisfy their greed, their lust and need for pleasure. They injured you. They made you injure other boys. They set you up to do stuff you otherwise would not have chosen to do. They certainly didn't have your best interests at heart. That is what you feel.

Puffer

Added later:

Yes I'm trying to "mess with your mind about this".

I'm not trying to tell a lie about this or change what we perceive as reality. We were all told wrong things about who we were as children or youths. These things became deeply imbedded in our minds. We came to believe these lies. But they are nevertheless false. Our healing has to do with outgrowing those concepts we were unfortunately led to believe. It takes work and repetition. We have to be told these things by others, often by a therapist who can tell us while watching us to make sure we don't over-react. We often repeat the same things in our present lives which were destructive to us in the past. We can change. We can live new lives.

Jeff, I have found that you are a caring, sensitive, intelligent person. You have a gift of writing that could make you famous if you were able to use it appropriately. You cared deeply even about those you were compelled to abuse. That's why you remembered their identities enough to be aware that they were different persons. That proves you cared. The fact that you feel deep remorse now shows that you cared and that you are not really that person you seemed to be then.

Yes Jeff,

I would like to agree with Puffer. You were not a prostitute; you were a child sex trafficking victim, and now you are sex trafficking survivor.

Cant

I'm so glad you understand Jeff, and that this conversation hasn't caused you undue pain (or at least hasn't caused unnecessary pain - your metaphor of removing burned skin is very apt). I would never want to say something that triggered or "reversed" any of the people here who are working so hard at recovery, and was mortified by the thought.

And to build off Puffer's point - the "omega victims" were doomed regardless, some "alpha victim" or another would have had to do it. But by your soulful remorse, your wondering about them, your feelings of pity for their pain and the hellish wrongness of it all.... Jeff, you might very well be the only person to have ever shown them or even thought of them with a shred of kindness. They exist only in the shadow world of child trafficking by well-outfitted professional torturers, and it may well be the case that their identities and statuses will never be discovered. But the one and only thing that is definitely known to anchor them to basic humanity, the only individual to feel any compassion or concern for them at all, the sole act of validation of their inner worth as human beings - comes from YOU, Jeff. They had everything taken from them, by people who cared nothing for them and probably laughed and drooled at every instant.

Only within you, in all of this world, is their humanity respected, and wished to have been protected. Only you and no one else can envision them and say "This was WRONG and THEY DESERVED BETTER!" You are the guardian of their sole link to human normalcy and justice, even if it's just an emotional wish for justice.

That's got to count for something, right?

Matt

*

*

*

The pictures are their centerfolds. They get off on the helplessness, misery, degradation, and dread, and can then imagine / fantasize about what is yet to come.



These are just the ones that Noreen Gosch was able to post to her website. She claims to have received others that are far too graphic for that.

Hey Jeff, thank you for such nice wish and beautiful uplifting music

Happy Holidays guys

(((Jeff)))
I'm glad that you turned it out into something positive.
Be happy no matter on fears of death .
Smile and share love even if it because of drug, lol
Hugs!


Pero

Just for you, Jeff!


love & peace,
Lee

*

An inquiry into harsh interrogations is being made by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

http://news.yahoo.com/lawmakers-cia-may-misled-filmmakers-140445772.html

I'm glad to see it officially questioned.

I believe that my post in this thread described an early attempt at developing the harsh interrogation methods referred to in this article.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=419036


puffer

Jeff - you are so very welcome.

i wish i could do more.

it just makes me cry to think of a hurting kid using the tips he got for being violated and tortured to comfort himself with something so normal and innocent as ice cream.

so have another one on me - and get a double side order of healing to go!

Lee

This thread throws me into a rage that cannot be quantified!

I just stumbled upon this vid which I believe shows the origins of the evils I faced in the summer camp.

I think that fortunately he only had 2 weeks with me and that the methods were still primitive then.

I think this material is pretty bad stuff. It doesn't say explicitly that they experimented on children, but it shows it in several pictures: *(I have to modify what I originally said here. There is a large amount of information on abuse of children in experiments (American children) in the book by Marshall Thomas).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIr0_Mt6AXg

I find there are a whole bunch of videos documenting this stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ZNgsNBi8c

Puffer

PS - Now I'm wondering if I was given LSD on the last 2 or 3 days of the camp. My mind became very confused and I experienced a terror that was indescribable. I have found a reference which documents that LSD was given to children in summer camps in 1953. My experience was in 1951. The summer camp was located a fairly short distance from the lab where LSD was kept. Since I now believe that the perpetrator of my abuse in the camp was an operative in military intelligence, he would have had access to this material.



The author, Alfred W. McCoy is the J.R.W. Small Professor of History of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He is the author of numerous books and articles, including The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia and Closer than Brothers.

When a T tried to use EMDR to treat this experience, I started to go wacko but since I could dissociate, I did that instead. I had learned to dissociate because of abuse at age 4, etc.

Here are some vids on LSD administered to people and animals:

Children and LSD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjSoFCj-t5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQQJfoRzefM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJEw3A_QO9o&list=PLHLqP3bn74o1LxfQu9qhjX-VSKirovMJP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDkpr3J6ZpU

So, what did I do when I was given LSD? I don't remember.

Psychological effects. It is clear that LSD was not given to me for my benefit. It was an experiment. They didn't know anything about dosage and didn't care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b_X7-JXyEU

Other experiments:

http://www.youtube.com/user/marsboy683?feature=watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7fOuPTZtWI&list=PLHLqP3bn74o1LxfQu9qhjX-VSKirovMJP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJEw3A_QO9o&list=PLHLqP3bn74o1LxfQu9qhjX-VSKirovMJP

Those are good and informative videos, Puffer. They are notable because the presentation is understated with no background music.

Be careful going down the rabbit hole watching and looking for stuff like this. Can be very triggering.

Cant

Pictures showing experimentation on American children in Project MK-Ultra in the 1950's and 1960's.

A boy is given a heavy dose of LSD: (note tear on his cheek)



These photos are available in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIr0_Mt6AXg

Written documentation is in: A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, From the Cold War to the War On Terror, by Alfred W. McCoy, published 2006, page 29.
__________________________________________________________

A girl is having her mind erased:



Written documentation of this is in: Monarch: The New Phoenix Program, by Marshall G. Thomas, published 2007, 193 pages.

Some of the text of the listed YouTube video was extracted from this book.

Puffer

I wonder where are monsters who did those experiments
Only couple countries were capable for allowing such monstrous crimes to humanity and I'm more than ashamed when seeing this ....

Yes, me too. It's been a compulsion. My abuser's father was apparently a famous person. There are several books written about him.

Here's a quote from a book which expounds on what the abuser's father was like as a person. Imagine what it would be like to have a father like this:



And here is a description of the abuser (his son, my abuser) at an early age:



So, in summary, the small boy was involved in a gang of boys who were destroying property, and he was frequently and viciously belted by his father even if he had committed only a minor infraction.

Puffer

I've found more references to the clandestine services experimenting with administering LSD to children in the 1950's.

There is a book, ACID: A New Secret History of LSD, by David Black, Ken Thomas.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802130623/



This would be funny if it weren't so sad. Who can control the mind of a 12-year-old boy?

The context of this quote is that some high-level committee was talking about using LSD as a drug to manipulate human behavior. They set up a room in San Francisco where prostitutes could administer LSD in an attempt to produce blackmail photography. The room had two-way mirrors so they could observe the effects. They also had one of these in Greenwich Village in NY. They apparently considered using 12-year-old boys instead of prostitutes, but rejected the idea.

But let me raise the question, in case I need to, Why did they specifically talk about 12-year-old boys? The answer seems to me to be that they had actually considered it before rejecting it. They had already gathered some preliminary data on using 12-year-old boys.

They had already experimented with at least one 12-year-old boy. I was one of them. I'm glad that for whatever reason I influenced them to reject the plan.

Puffer

My mind continues to clear on this. I'm having new T sessions which will help. I am reading a book which talks about the deterioration of the programming with time in other people. I notice that the stuff I was subjected to is similar to what others had. He only had 2 weeks to try to program me. I think I was supposed to be programmed as a sex slave. I still don't understand the role of LSD.

As I gain insight as to what happened, my anxiety and depression have decreased. I was programed to "not talk". Indeed I got to the point where I couldn't talk above a whisper when I was a boy. Nobody knew why. Then when the memories of this stuff came up (or the amnesia broke) when I was in my forties, I saw what happened only from the standpoint of my reactions as a boy. It was like Pinocchio or Jonah seeing his situation only from inside the whale. But now the reading I've been doing is allowing me to get perspective. Now I see the whole whale so to speak as from outside. Now I'm getting the big picture. It was a Moby Dick!

The book I'm reading now is: Healing the Unimaginable. Treating Ritual Abuse and Mind Control, by Alison Miller.

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Unimaginable-Treating-Ritual-Control/dp/1855758822/

I started reading the book in the middle. I often do that. The chapter is entitled: Military, Political, and Commercial Uses of Mind Control. First thing I want to do is issue a disclaimer. The abuser in that chapter is called "Puffy". I want to affirm that I definitely am not Puffy. I am now being called Puff of Puffer by a lot of the guys, but not Puffy.

Puffer not Puffy

Puffer,

We love you so much.

Cant

edit: my sig file: Moby-Dick. coincidence?

I have suggested in the previous posts that my abuser was somehow involved with CIA and/or Army intelligence in testing out so-called procedures for studying the interrogation and/or manipulation of a "suspect". I came to suspect I might have been given LSD on the last day of that experience. My experience was in 1951. I was repeatedly sexually abused and tortured. I was repeatedly threatened with words and with a knife. I was tied with rope, starved and kept in isolation and semi-darkness. I saw another boy killed by "deep-throating" and remembered that was done to me the following day. The effects on me have been described in numerous posts here, but include Complex-PTSD, DIDNOS, long-standing depression, very low self-esteem and diminished social skills. I have had many hours of counseling, much of it at my own expense.

I have detailed my experience in the post pufferfish story part 5. Warning it is very disturbing and triggering.
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...9028#Post219028

Publicized material on that period of time include the experiments in a so-called Project Bluebird.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/project_bluebird.htm

Now I have discovered a couple of documentary films which seem to corroborate my suspicions. They point out that there was a period of time in which the US Army conducted brazen experiments on civilians:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019KAQ68/



There is also a new book which I haven't seen yet, but it discusses the use of children in experiments during the cold war period:

Against Their Will: The Secret History of Medical Experimentation on Children in Cold War America [Hardcover]
Allen M. Hornblum (Author), Judith Lynn Newman (Author), Gregory J. Dober (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0230341713/


Puffer

wow!

i just posted a bunch of material on this subject:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2874#Post432874
**READ AT YOUR OWN RISK**

the person who raped me was working with/for the government as part of some sort of youth rehabilitation/job program, which was also involved with a church group, a convict/parole program, and a construction company.
i was a juvenile delinquent in trouble with the law.
my memories of that few weeks are very hazy, but i have vague recollections of a basement full of children all ages, i was moved to three different locations, big expensive houses in nice neighbourhoods, i barely and rarely did any actual "work" although i was technically employed and did receive money... my abuser had large amounts of cash and steady supply of drugs, he had keys to various places, he was always driving around, sometimes he would drop me off at some place and grab some other kid (one little girl i remember was only about 6) and leave with them for a while, return later, drop them off, and pick me up.
no one else abused me (that i can remember) but... there were other adults there with whom he was constantly communicating, and it seems impossible to me that these other adults that he kept meeting did not know what he was doing... now that i am an adult... it all seems so obviously suspicious.
i reported all this to the police... they told me there were several hundred victims who came forward... none of this reached the courts or newspapers...

instead he was portrayed as some sort of loner, but he was very social and sociable...
he then received over $100,000
http://news.ca.msn.com/clifford-olson-timeline-of-a-child-killer?page=5
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=19...;pg=859,717327

... i complained to the government and threatened to make a big deal out of the fact that they (the youth employment program) had handed me over to him... i was given a small victim compensation and that was the end of it, although he was never charged with any crime against me.

it all makes no sense, unless there was something going on behind the scenes...
or else i am just a crazy paranoid trauma victim.

in any case... because of my history... my testimony is not considered credible.

make up your own mind, because i simply do not know what really happened.

Victor-Victim,
Puffer,

OH GOD that is horrible.

Words cannot express how very fucking angry all this makes me. I am offended.

Geoff

That is extremely interesting to me. I would like to discuss this more in PM or open posts.

There was another guy formerly in MS who was apparently a victim of these affairs.

Puffer

I have some news related to those secret activities back than that among other included Harvard:
"ANOTHER FACET OF Harvard's relationship, past and present, with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) emerged last week as Dr. Martin T. Orne '48, the director of a Medical School hypnosis research project in the early '60s, outlined how his group unwittingly received $30,000 from the CIA. Last week's disclosure of Orne as the "unidentified researcher" mentioned in a University statement on CIA funding of Harvard projects raises several questions, centering not so much on the hypnosis research--which does not seem to be controversial--as on the University's decision to honor Orne's request to remain unidentified."

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1978/2/11/harvard-and-the-cia-continued-pbabnother/

it gets even worse!

**TRIGGER WARNING**
*READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2008/04/21/killing_children_a_political_ritual.html

That it so sad

((((((PUFFER)))))))

The demon inside me howls in rage, and hot tears spill down my cheeks.....there is no reason, nor explanation.

To say they are vile, or horrific is an understatement. When I see the pictures of the boys tied up, I am so angry, so very angry, it reminds me of my own violations and degradation. The perpetually wounded child inside me hisses in fear/anger and shrieks in my head DEMANDING justice for those images.

I cannot say how painful this is.

Geoff

I only made it through a handful of these posts before I had to stop. I'll try to make it through them all later but for now I am too upset. Right now my initial reaction says 8 soldiers, 8 rifles, 7 bullets.

it is almost certain that the perpetrators/predators in most of these cases are traumatized/programmed victims of long-term sexual abuse themselves, who never managed to escape.

many are trapped since childhood in a sick self-perpetuating culture of violence, fear, and intimidation.

and having participated, often unwillingly, in crimes against other children, including rape, recruiting, kidnapping, etc...
these atrocities are filmed in many cases.
this can be held against the sex slaves for blackmail purposes, which forces continued "voluntary" participation until their souls are scarred and scared, and many feel beyond redemption, unworthy of forgiveness, fear reprisal for betraying their abusers, or fear public exposure, prosecution and punishment for what they have done.

you can imagine how deep they are buried spiritually.

this is "stockhold syndrome" and "vampirism" all rolled into one.

this is a very complex generational problem that goes way back in history.

maybe some were born sadistic sociopaths, but i believe most were manufactured and trained.
some, unfortunately, are born into these pedocults.

Victor-Victim,

You seem to have a good handle on this issue from an intellectual perspective, which is an amazing thing because it can be so difficult to get one's head around a subject like this.

Cant

Victor-Victim

It sounds like you have done some reading and thinking about why perpetrators do what they do.

I wrote a post about my abuser in this location:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2270#Post422270

Puffer

the reason i know what i know is because of studying the Franklin Scandal and watching the documentary Conspiracy of Silence.
then i waded through hours and hours of videotaped victim testimony.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2874#Post432874

this triggered all my hidden memories of my experience with clifford olson, and i recalled how he used me to bring new boys to the jobsite, with the promise of work, which i did, to my eternal shame and guilt.
this was the hardest thing for me to accept and forgive about myself.

i am not excusing what i did.
these were my reasons:

i did it to divert his attentions away from me, but i felt sick about it.
then i felt rejected and jealous when he ignored me and began his seduction routine with them.
then i felt like killing myself for putting these other boys my age at risk.
but i was too chickenshit to warn them.
i had to protect my reputation as a psycho tough guy.
i did not want the other guys to find out i was "gay" or "fag".
that was a dangerous label in Surrey in 1977.
anyone suspected of homosexuality was beaten and bullied mercilessly by gangs of "fagbashers".
i had seen it numerous times.
guys humiliated, forced to eat dogshit, lick boots, just for being effeminate or timid.

i was afraid clifford would kill me or hurt me if i told anyone what happened, or if i failed to comply.
i was worried that i was no longer useful to him.
now that he had already raped me twice, he did not seem to be interested in me anymore.
he was starting to talk very rude and mean to me.
insulting and degrading me, calling me dirty names,
but he kept me by his side most of the time, and never let me out of his control.
if i was recruiting, then i still had value, i reasoned.

i still can't understand why i just didn't run away.
once, after the first rape, i did not show up for work,
i was just sitting there at home, in a zombie robot trance.
unable to act one way or the other.

he called my house, just like any regular employer would,
talked to my mother on the telephone, gave me shit for being late,
and arrived at my house within the hour to pick me up.
when he asked "why didn't you come in today" i wanted to yell,
"because you raped me" but it was like it never happened and i was unable to speak the words,
so i said "i'm sorry, i slept in".
even when we were alone, i could not admit that he had raped me.

he shook my mother's hand and promised her that he was looking after me.
he would make sure i didn't mess up this job,
and that he would "straighten me out". "don't worry".

she was so charmed, and told me what a nice wonderful man he was.
i was lucky to have such an opportunity, such a lenient boss, and i should be more responsible.
it was so normal, i almost laughed out loud.

instead i apologized and he took me straight to a big house in a nice neighbourhood.
he took me downstairs to a sauna, and he raped me a second time.
the man who lived there stayed upstairs.
he seemed not to notice when cliff and i were walking around with nothing but towels on.
clifford insisted i wear a towel, he said my nudity was improper,
that i should "cover up".
although by this time, i did not understand his need for modesty,
considering what he had just done to me.

after this, the subtle threats and insults started.
i could feel his loathing toward me, like it was my fault.
he called me a "slut" for wanting to have sex with him.
then he said i liked it too much.
i remember this made me feel bad, like i had failed or disappointed him.

for the next few days, after meeting him,
my mother gushed about what a sharp dresser he was.
it made me sick that she (a single woman) was obviously attracted to the man who raped her son.
i did not tell her what he really was. i did not want to upset her, or get in trouble.

i did not trust her anyway, because she had already let me down.
when i was 12 i told her that the tenant in our basement suite had been molesting me.
she did nothing, and let him continue to live there, after he denied touching me.
but that is another story.

this is all very disturbing to convey, but it is brutal truth.

any ruthless person can brainwash a kid.
it doesn't take a genius, just a degenerate.
it is a cold science.

if only i could get a handle on it from an emotional perspective.
it has proven impossible for me to get my heart around a subject like this.

thank god i did not became one of these sociopaths.
no matter how hard i tried to erase all trace of "weakness" (empathy-conscience-emotion) from my personality, using my "vulcan logic"... i could not rid myself of my humanity.

after decades of detachment, i am still trying to combine my head's comprehension with my heart's compassion.

TRIGGER WARNING



research links: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=432874#Post432874

After having given this subject a "rest" for a few weeks, I'm back at it again.

I'm finding more and more references to experiments and hypnotic affects on boys around 12 (my age) in the 1950's. They were interested in controlling human behavior with hypnosis and drugs.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/770721nytimes.ciahumanbehaviorcontrol

http://www.wanttoknow.info/nationbetrayed10pg



http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol10pg#ciadocs

In another document it says:


I believe my abuser to have been US Army working in conjunction with CIA. I believe I was administered LSD without my knowledge.

And in another document it speaks of experiments in 1951.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/cia_mind_control_experiments_sex_abuse




Question: It says this was a girl. Could it have been a lie? Could it have really been a boy? (me)?


Puffer

Puffer,

Take care that you keep your feet on the ground. As you go through the pain of trying to reconstruct your past I would hate to think you were being led astray and fed more unnecessary pain by some crackpot con artist.

WantToKnow is a clearinghouse on 9/11Trutherism, vaccine denialism, anti-NASA conspiracies, cold-fusion hucksterism, despicable phony "cures" for autism, and some business about telepathy thrown in for good measure. The reality of MKUltra and Project Paperclip are ghastly and outlandish enough that they need to be viewed in serious surroundings, or else all the kookery in the background that defies basic foundational facts of physics, avionics, ballistics, biology, and epidemiology rub off on it and sap its credibility too.


Matt

to: puffer.

take it real careful on this path.
i nearly lost my way several times.
but i understand your need to know.

from my own experience. matt has the right idea.

do not immerse.
do not waste too much time counting the teeth on the shark.

There is a very real chance that the man who molested me - who was born in Germany in 1920 - may very well have been a Nazi. He totally could have been (could still be, since he's still alive). A for-real original arm-saluting Nazi, at some level, any level... a chauffeur, a mailman, a painter, a desk clerk, a Luftwaffe pilot... anything. There were no limits on postwar Nazi immigration to America unless they were in the SS - and even some of those got in too like John Demjanjuk. It is a known fact many wound up in New York. Just going through flea markets makes that clear enough.

But I'll never REALLY know, unless I trek to the National Archives for a paper search, or ask him.

Sometimes, you have to turn away from the rapids, you're cold and wet enough already.


Matt

I've followed this thread for quite a while. Johnny Gosch was older than I was, but his disappearance was held out as a cautionary tale at the time.

We lost some of our innocence in the late 70s and early 80s when several high-profile kidnappings took place: Adam Walsh, Johnny Gosch, Etan Patz (who was my age), and closer to home, the so-called "Atlanta Child Murders." It was a very uneasy time. I remember it very well.

Stranger danger was drilled into us. I was so primed to look for alligators that I never noticed the snake in the grass.

Will

.

Yeah there was a definite freakout in my neighborhood, in New York, after Etan Patz. It didn't help that I LOOKED LIKE Etan Patz. I distinctly remember being taken to a special room, one class at a time, so the entire student population could get fingerprinted by cops. This was done in my elementary school, where the perp already worked.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

I have to pose this reference:

http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewcommentary.php?storyid=76







Why isn't this stuff covered by the usual media?

Puffer

Because that source is an even worse kook-a-rama of 9/11Truthers, HIV/AIDS deniers, infanticidal anti-vaxers, and Holocaust deniers. Lie down with dogs....

This entire thread hits too close to home. Johnny Gosch's kidnapping occurred very close to my hometown. The Des Moines Register covered this case in detail for a very long time. In addition, another paperboy for the DM Register, Eugene Martin was kidnapped shortly after Johnny Gosch. I have heard Noreen Gosch speak a couple of times about her son and her experience in locating him. It's a very chilling story, one that just stays with you. The effect is pronounced in CSA victims. It's all just too familiar. Noreen is very animated and a great speaker. It's impossible to write her off as a crazy woman who went off the deep end following her son's kidnapping. The facts of her case seem outrageous, but there is enough credibility to send shivers down your spine. Hard to believe it happened thirty years ago and still generates press.

DavO

I'm sorry that my posts added to your troubles. I just have had all this craziness down inside me since I was 12. Now I begin to see some kind of a plan in it, and I just can't help trying to figure it all out.

Puffer

Puffer,

You need to listen to Soccer star on this... as you seek out your research on controversial issues, you need to pay close attention to the sources that you're looking at, especially internet sites, to get a better understanding of their credibility.

It's not worth it to trigger your PTSD and DID with a junk conspiracy site. You need to be more skeptical for your own protection.

Cant

Puffer,

Compelling, Urgent, Drawn, longing to bear witness, to revisit....

I don't know of any survivor who doesn't reconnect with their abuse eventually. Either by geography, by confronting their perp, by seeking out records of the truth..by attempting to validate themselves.

My own abuse was not characterized by the clandestine nature that yours was....Mine was only one exterior perp, and when I was in my twenties I was drawn and compelled to do many things.

I revisited the church which was the site of many corruptions.

I went into the basement where I remember being orally sodomized.
I went into the kitchen where I remember being naked and many violations...all the while the florist smells of that awful stench of green florist clay.
I wrote letters to my perp and asked him to be involved in a counseling session to help deal with it.

I was the definition of compulsion...yet for all that...here I am at 45 still dealing with it.

Do what you must Puffer...but realize that curiosity can motivate us to drink the kool aid....don't forget to do maintenance on your support systems.

Love you Dude...thank you for reaching out to Me so many times!!

Geoff

Why do I feel a need to answer this?

As a 12-year-old boy I went through something very horrible. I don't urge people to read the story because it is apparently damaging to even read it. But I felt then and I still feel I was abandoned to what happened. I was abandoned by the Boy Scouts of America, whose camp it was. The abuser had an official position there. His name has been redacted from the records released by the Boy Scouts and from other records. I was abandoned by the other boys who abused me there. I was abandoned by my parents who left me there (even though it was apparently unintentional it was perceived by me as an abandonment issue). After I remembered what happened there a victim's advocate told my story to the FBI and they refused to have anything to do with it*. So... I was terribly damaged, whatever the reason. I have experienced lots of pain of different kinds. I could never be the same. I could never be or do lots of things. When other boys and teachers later perceived my damage, they shunned and rejected me. Life with friends and family became terribly difficult. So here I am many years later, trying to figure out what happened to me when I was 12. I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money for psychotherapy (in addition to insurance). Nobody seems to care. I'm trying to figure out if there was a scheme that went beyond the abuse of the one sociopathic man who seemed to have orchestrated all of that abuse. I have limited resources for searching and I have reason to believe that what happened to me and to many other boys has been covered up. Where can I go for information about it? My gut feeling is that it must have happened to lots of other children and that I alone have escaped to tell about it.

Puffer

*I have the letter the victim's advocate wrote me about it.

(((( Puffer ))))

That victim advocate letter is from what year?

Cant

i feel so much the same as you, puffer.

I think it's 1988. It's not in front of me right now. It was only a few years after I remembered it.

Puffer