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#419036 - 12/13/12 04:15 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6864
Loc: USA
It is helping me a lot to see that what I went through when I was 12 was part of a much larger scheme of things.

I've been reading more about MK-Ultra and it's origins and it's practices.

I believe I see now that my perp. was part of a much larger scheme. It was 1951. The Korean war had recently ended, and some of our soldiers had returned having been brain-washed and tortured by North Koreans, and in what was called Red China then. The feeling on this side of the pond was that our intelligence services were weak, and that our 'boys' (soldiers) were being brain-washed and we didn't know anything about it. My abuser's father was part of organizing a new military intelligence operation. He had become preeminent during World War II and he then became the one to assume that responsibility. They wanted to be able to combat the brain-washing going on in North Korea and adjoining Chinese territories, and even do them one better. This conflict continues even today as we see the North Koreans firing a successful rocket into space (only yesterday).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/weekinreview/06weiner.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

So Our newly-appointed intelligence services started up (Forgive me please if I'm a little bit inaccurate here as I was only a small child then. I have had to connect the dots in many cases where I had incomplete information). They wanted a military intelligence (now the NSA) and a civilian intelligence, which became the CIA. They had some lavish dreams, apparently, which seemed to justify experimentation on human beings, including children. Although this has been hushed up, there is evidence that children were used in all kinds of experiments, including administration of hallucinogens (LSD) and creation of multiple personality disorder. They used torture, isolation, degradation, sexual activities in that objective.

I have several sources of information on this. Some of them I cited in my previous post.

Bluebird: Deliberate Creation of Multiple Personality by Psychiatrists, by Colin A. Ross, MD.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/cia_mind_control_experiments_sex_abuse

So, my abuser, because of his relationship to the general setting up the intelligence services, must have come to have a roll in the instigation of these services. They were intelligent, forceful, and creative people. My abuser apparently had the quality of being brutal. He was allocated this role and since he had recently emerged from scouting in the Washington area and from an honored college. He was respected in scouting circles and so it must have led to a dual role, to be helpful in scouting activities while carrying out some of the early experiments leading to MK-Ultra, Project Bluebird, and Project Artichoke.

It was 1951. I happened to be going to the scout camp for the greater Washington area. My abuser had a role as one of the important "leadership" persons there. He must have sized me up as a possible candidate for his abuse, which he would have thought to be part of a larger program in how to learn to brainwash and program people for other uses.

Originally Posted By: Colin A. Ross in Bluebird, page 3

BLUEBIRD was approved by the CIA director on April 20, 1950. In August 1951, the Project was renamed ARTICHOKE. BLUEBIRD and ARTICHOKE included a great deal of work on the creation of amnesia, hypnotic couriers, and the Manchurian Candidate.


Originally Posted By: Colin A. Ross in Bluebird, page 9

Dr. Estabrooks did experiments on children ... His experimentation on children raises the possibility that investigators have attempted to create Manchurian Candidates in children. Such a possibility might seem far-fetched until one considers the LSD, bioligical and radiation experiments conducted on children,....


So I was abused by him in a tent. I have previously written descriptions of what I went through. There was no LSD, as far as I know, and no electric shock, since it was in a camping setting and we didn't have electricity there. But I got everything else: restraint by being tied with ropes, degratation (being shitted and peed on), forced sex with him and other boys, brainwashing with a knife, and torture by having various stuff thrust up my ass. I watched another boy killed. An attempt was made to kill me also by smothering by deep throating. It was very damaging, to say the least.

Puffer

PS Added 12/18/13 The quotes from Dr. Colin Ross are originally from a book written by Dr. Ross:

Bluebird : Deliberate Creation of Multiple Personality by Psychiatrists Paperback
by Colin A. Ross

Colin Ross has done a huge amount of work to rehabilitate survivors of abuse, especially those with DID (Multiple Personality Disorder). His work and writings have been quoted often and He can be seen in various Youtube vids.

Project Bluebird was the name of the stuff going on when I was abused at the scout camp. It was soon changed to Artichoke and then to MKUltra. Other names were used. Monarch was then the name given to the programming sex slaves and other kinds of mind-controlled slaves.

I believe that their agenda was not firmly in place at the time they worked on me. Also I believe that I was not selected (fortunately) as a programmable Monarch candidate because the experiments had the effect of making me terribly depressed and they increased my social alienation. A Monarch candidate was supposed to be a kind of Superman.

http://www.amazon.com/Bluebird-Deliberate-Creation-Personality-Psychiatrists/dp/0970452519/

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Ross%20CIA

http://www.amazon.com/Colin-A.-Ross/e/B001HCV7VQ/



Edited by pufferfish (12/18/13 01:36 PM)

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#419265 - 12/16/12 09:29 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Puffer,

You are very brave to make these connections and to say them out loud. I believe you, as do many others here.

It would be nice to hear from therapy professionals whose eyes have been opened to this reality, and what they think we should do about it.

The waters were muddied back in the 90s with "False Memory Syndrome" after the first wave of disclosure on this subject. That appears to have made professionals afraid to speak out for fear of being marginalized by their colleagues.

And that's a shame.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#419563 - 12/19/12 02:24 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6864
Loc: USA
*** This is scary and provocative ***





Brain Washing Techniques and Mind Control:

Now that I'm pretty sure that I went through an early version of this as a child, I think it's necessary to point out to others what happened. I think I went through this and emerged out the other side now. What I went through was fairly crude compared to later descriptions. I want to make it clear what went on. ... Yes, I'm just figuring it out myself. I'm just becoming aware of this in a broader context. Why am I doing this? Civic duty. Yes, I am concerned about doing this. Yes I don't need any more destruction in my life than what I've already experienced.

This is my story. It's pretty much exactly as I first remembered it. It's pretty nasty.
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...9028#Post219028

There are 2 movies on the Manchurian Candidate which I haven't seen yet. Both of them are called Manchurian Candidate. One is a fairly recent and the other is from 1962 but about events in the 1950's (my timeline).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manchurian_Candidate

The 2004 film:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368008/

The 1964 film with Frank Sinatra etc.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056218/
Notice that the time setting of this movie (1952) was close timewise to what I experienced.


Documentary film on basic mind control techniques:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/cia-secret-experiments/

A document on this subject:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol10pg

A book on this: (see page 329) The Franklin Cover-up
http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Cover-up-Satanism-Murder-Nebraska/dp/0963215809/


There was an effort to make certain people mind-controlled slaves. They were originally called Manchurian Candidates. They would on a secret command take on a task which would normally be quite foreign to their personalities. Afterward they would either completely forget the incident (amnesia) or they would dispose of their own self.

Two of the types of mind-control slaves to produce:
1) Assassins. People who would, under a secret signal which could be sent by a telephone message or TV etc, become a killer.

2) Sex slaves. People who would make themselves available for certain activities such as pornography, oral sex, other...

I believe that I was programmed to respond sexually in certain environmental contexts. I think it was oral. I lost some really good friends and I never knew why. Don't think that it was fun for me. It was disastrous. I was the last one to know. It ruined my life more than it otherwise would have been. The generic homily for this is turning into a green monster who people later want to destroy.

Since these programs were started in the early 50's, it can be assumed that they have become more sophisticated in years hence.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (12/19/12 03:26 PM)

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#419641 - 12/20/12 09:24 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1191
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/16/13 09:16 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#419664 - 12/20/12 04:57 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6864
Loc: USA
Jeff,

That's an excellent and helpful response to my post. I also talked it over with my T this afternoon, and he was affirmative about the dots I had managed to connect. It had an immediately helpful effect on my own psyche. After putting these things together and writing about it, I felt an immediate sense of relief and freedom from an anxiety I've had since being a little boy.

Puffer

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#419690 - 12/20/12 07:42 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Jeff & Puffer,

You two are heroes to so many of us here. For you to have endured so and survived, both of you are special people.

You give us all strength and hope.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#419701 - 12/20/12 08:45 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1191
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/16/13 09:16 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#419718 - 12/21/12 12:16 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039

Jeff,

Truth is our friend; it sets us free.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#419732 - 12/21/12 06:19 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1191
Loc: New York
Hey Cant,

I realize that in spades. Since you helped me so much putting together my past I do feel much more free. thanks so much.

Peace,Rainbows & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#419746 - 12/21/12 10:08 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3607
Loc: South-East Europe
I'm so happy seeing Jeff looking into overall picture and seeing how wild and dangerous things were back than.
I hate the most cases when abusers used physical torture to make innocent victims obedient, it is awful, it is violent and it is very difficult to deal with.
Abusers (monsters) are using so devastating and destructive force that many years are not enough for healing.

I'll just add (((Puffer and Jeff))) you both are our heroes!

Pero
_________________________
My story

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