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#416423 - 11/16/12 07:24 AM After confrontation... what next?
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
I just got off the phone with my younger brother. We have not seen each other in over a year and I have not spoke to him in about as long. He was abused with me( I was six) by our older sister, but he was the favorite. When the abuser rejected me for him, the paradigm became about me trying to get back into what I thought was next level love and care, something our family sorely lacks as they were abusive sexually and physically. I was completely rejected, bullied to exclusion and made a laughing stock as I stumbled my way through my youth and adulthood, even as I write this I struggle with those memories decades old.

Hm, back to topic... I called him because he had asked(his wife texted my wife) to stop by on a trip he and his wife were making through a few states. I had to call him, he would not even talk to me till I confronted him. We talked amicably for a bit, he is a really funny guy, I mean he had me laughing out loud quickly. He has always been like that, but this time, I asked him not to stop on his way through. He must have known it was coming because he did not hesitate, simply saying that he would not go where he was not wanted, then admitted this was awkward and said good bye.

He will not talk with me about what happened nor even acknowledge that it did to me. I wanted to talk with him about it, find some appropriate brotherly compassion, feel like I am as important to him as the abuser is at least and find that relief and conclusion of the abuse and those feelings of being alone. Instead I find myself in the untenable situation of confronting him and then letting him go, which saddens me, but as he is not supportive nor even acknowledging this difficult part of life then I cannot have that in my life as I heal. It is ridiculous really, he and I both have emotional damage, he runs away from the pain and I run towards it, lately... I did run from it for years, and it was only due to an emergency in my life that I had to confront it. When I asked for his help on the sexual abuse recovery, he told me he may be able to give me an hour that never materialized. When I asked fro his help in confronting the parents on the physical abuse, he told me he could not remember anything, although I found out later through a mutual friend he confided in about his youth and the abuse.

There is the back story. I am seeking to move on.

Confrontation is resolution. Prior to confrontation I waited for him, for her and for them to come to me and support me. That was NEVER going to happen. So little by little, I confronted them. This concludes that part of my recovery, I think, recovery is a twisted roller coaster blindfolded, while it remains to be seen, it is an area I cannot find any more pain in inside my heart.

So the decision to confront them in a way that would bring about conversation and healing has been concluded. Well, I WAS more abrasive than I wanted to be, but what the hell, it was a new process for me. I ended the conversation with my brother by telling him I would talk to him again. The door is open if he may need it, but the train is moving along and if he wants on, he better reach.

Ok so.., I have confronted. Now what? I feel empty but not lonely, having found affirmation in myself through personal searching, MS fellow survivors, WoR and a slew of research including spiritual pursuits and MSA books. This is a first for me, I look into the pain and find that I have concluded all that I feel contention about. Again I ask, as recovery so far does not include how to live comfortably without that MSA(male sexual abuse) monkey on my back.

What did I expect? Can I live with the less than that I was offered when I did confront? Can I leave my family behind and continue a solid life experience without them? What is next for me?

Have you felt like this?
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#416425 - 11/16/12 08:52 AM Re: After confrontation... what next? [Re: SamV]
webelos Offline


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 12
Loc: in mountains both in my mind a...
Sam I so understand what you are feeling. Just this last week I tried communicating with what was/is my best friend who experienced it. We were 9 at the time. We have only talked maybe a dozen times in the last 40 years. I don't think I approached it as confrontational as you did and I certainly was tip toeing around the subject. But I so wanted him to acknowledge the incidents and move through this process together. Somehow I would seem much easier if I had him - the one I survived with - along my side which I attempt to heal.

I didn't get what I had hoped for but I did get what I expected. He isn't ready to approach the subject. He would rather continue to forget or push it down. When I brought up the fact that the recent release of the Boy Scout files had me thinking back about our time in scouts - he quickly stated that thank goodness our leaders were 'moral and upstanding'. Hmmm.

Afterwards I figured that if he isn't going to go there (figuratively speaking) with me, then I will just have to make the journey myself - alone. I am use to being alone. It has been way too long a life to hold this monkey on my back and I want to heal.

Like you I asked those questions and my only answer possible is yes - I did get less than I hoped for - yes I will have to leave him behind and experience life without him. I do leave the door open and if he/they want to jump on board I would welcome it. But what is next for me is what I am use to - moving down the journey alone. You and I have done it before and I expect we can do it now.
_________________________
transition from cub scouts to boy scouts wasn't easy. It was hard to go from the safety of den mothers to the world of men and older boys.

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#416429 - 11/16/12 10:17 AM Re: After confrontation... what next? [Re: SamV]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3608
Loc: South-East Europe
Hang on Sam I've been trying to figure out and I wish if by this talk the outcome won't be further isolation for you frown
I must say that all your family dynamics is very mysterious for me, I tried to catch it trough all your post but somehow it slipped away.
I can't place your brother nor your parents and you all together and I can't say nothing on confrontation to your brother. I mean I don't know when and how did you confronted your sister but above them most I would like to know more about your parents (especially father). Have you confronted ever your father?
I'm saying this because I have one image of you so vivid that is hurtful.
I would like that you confronted him; you know when seeing little Sam left alone at home sneaking around to fridge that scene is hurtful beyond imagination for me. I'll never forget it, it is so vivid and so strong, I can see you watching on street for any sound/sign of his car frown
Sorry if I'm wrong or too direct, I've just said what I feel.
I see confrontation as giving message to people who were too selfish to take and see the true. I'm talking about people who intentionally did harm and used own power as demonstration of shear force erasing any safe border and playing with others like they were toys.
By confrontation we should face them with painful reality and their wrongdoings. Based on results of such collision it depends what is the future: controlled and limited approach to abusive persons under our terms only or trying to reconnect in full.
I'm always for first option if toxic persons are included.

Is it possible to live without own family?
Sometimes survival is not possible otherwise frown

Hang on (((Sam)))

Pero

_________________________
My story

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#416452 - 11/16/12 06:24 PM Re: After confrontation... what next? [Re: SamV]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Thanks webelos, it is true that when we decide to confront the abuse and escape the controls, we are looked at with disdain, whistle blowers or opportunists at best. When we seek support from those whom have survived with us, we get a mixed bag of complete dissociation/some/or no support at all. It is a very confusing time, and lonely. I have met some good people here and the survivors and thrivers here are top notch, first rate. My best to you, you are not alone, we are together in this struggle, that we may be rewarded together! Many thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Igor, I have confronted my father... in fact, here is the email I sent to him.
Click to reveal..
"Thank for replying Dad.

Love is far more than simply demanding that as God forgives, so too should the victim. You are the abuser. These scriptures you are quoting are for those who have not seriously sinned, and certainly are not for those who have physically abused to demand of their victims. Can you imagine that King David would demand of Uriah that he forgive him? Do you remember the anguish David went through, that His God made him suffer!?!! You have seriously sinned, the spiritual leaders met with you to discuss what I disclosed to them about you, that should have been a wake up call for you. They cannot read hearts, what was God reading in yours? What is you merciful God reading in your heart as you read this?

How easy it is for your to insist on my forgiving you. Where are your works of repentance? Where is your sacrifice? Let me remind you of the chaos and violence your brand of Fathering created in my life. The struggle to compare what I have learned by your example and that which was inculcated by the beauty and safety of the Scriptures was hardly similar. I cannot go to worship nor even listen to the phone tie in without feeling terrified or consumed by guilt to the point I am so overwhelmed I pass out, literally. I cannot taste the beauty of God without feeling I am worthless or that I am unfit. I rejoice when I hear about the expansion of the our religion, but quickly become overwhelmed by the admonition.

I daily contend through these struggles while you sit with your demands for forgiveness, your "age of reasoning" firewalls and your current effort of service. If this is your soap box, then you are nothing more than a snake oil salesman. I have tasted what you are selling and it is fake, counterfeit and harmful.

I have a process, if you are still reading this, in recovery that makes it necessary to reach out to perpetrators(you, mom, the abuser sister, as well as your accomplice, my younger brother) in order to confront you all, to make you know of the nightmares I have because of the sibling abuse, bullying, sexual and physical abuse and the abandonment you have caused. I am satisfied that that message has been delivered, the confrontation part of recovery, for me, is over. I do not wish to hear your insistence on forgiveness, nor your demanding God's Love to be your absolution. What if you had not come before God with your terrible sins before your death? Would you have been welcomed by God according to his Word? Your sin kept in secret, would you have been declared righteous?

If your reply continues to sidestep my thoughts, but continues to demand "a clean slate" and a "get over it", I am not interested.
---------
This was a reply to his email here:
"Son, I have read all the emails. I wish that I would have said that I love you rather than just saying I am happy you are happy, even though I meant all the happiness that comes from God. I am a plain, simple man, God and you know that. I follow Ps 103:11,12 that says God puts our trangressions far, far away and doesn't bring them up again. I am reminded of Paul's words at Phil 3:13 to forget the things behind and stretch forward to the things ahead."

That is the latest in that round.

I am all for a controlled and limited contact, having removed myself physically from them, all that was left was to remove myself emotionally. What a blessing and with such clarity that event has brought to me! Thank you Igor, my consistent friend and fellow survivor, you and I will heal soon, I can feel it.

Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#416471 - 11/17/12 01:03 AM Re: After confrontation... what next? [Re: SamV]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3608
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Sam,
letter to your father is beautifully written, it is very powerful! It is sad that your father is hiding behind spirituality, it gives overall picture some tragic scent of dishonesty and false morality.
But you were victorious, you said what you felt and you took care for yourself. I'm so proud on you man, smile
You moved so much in last couple of years that is beyond belief, it is very inspiring, thanks for sharing with us!

Igor
_________________________
My story

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#416480 - 11/17/12 03:42 AM Re: After confrontation... what next? [Re: SamV]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3393
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Originally Posted By: SamV
Ok so.., I have confronted. Now what? I feel empty but not lonely, having found affirmation in myself through personal searching, MS fellow survivors, WoR and a slew of research including spiritual pursuits and MSA books. This is a first for me, I look into the pain and find that I have concluded all that I feel contention about. Again I ask, as recovery so far does not include how to live comfortably without that MSA(male sexual abuse) monkey on my back.

What did I expect? Can I live with the less than that I was offered when I did confront? Can I leave my family behind and continue a solid life experience without them? What is next for me?

Have you felt like this?


to answer the last question first, YES!

i was thinking today - sometimes "real life" is the nightmare you need to escape from; and sometimes "real life" is an escape from the nightmare." i think the same can be said about families. in your case, right now, it is obvious which it is. maybe it will change someday... but don't let your healing depend upon it or even wait for it.

my story has some similarities to yours - as you know, especially the hyper-spiritual and denial elements. at one point in college i was so desperate for acceptance from my family that i wrote a letter to the step-father and 1st abuser, asking for HIS forgiveness! i was devastated when he didn't even acknowledge the letter - much less forgive me for being the "bad son" that i had been conditioned to believe i was. several years later i tried again to be reconciled to them - on their terms - confessing my faults in the relationship. again - no reply. i tried one more time, when i was in my 30s and was in therapy the first time - and had recovered some of the repressed memories - to re-establish some sort of relationship that bore even a vague resemblance to normal family ties. this time, I forgave THEM for what i experienced (not specified) during my childhood (mom was passively complicit). it was very difficult to get to that place, but i wrote another letter. again - a deafening SILENCE.

since that time i resolved to be free of any guilt in the failure of the relationship. it was something that i recognized at the age of 11 when i realized that i wasn't going to get normal parenting - and anything i expected like that was doomed to be a disappointment. i knew at that time that i was on my own. but i kept hoping...

i have maintained occasional communications at an emotional and often geographical distance - surface-level, polite and as invulnerable as i would bewith strangers or very casual acquaintances. they seem to be OK with that and it is not dangerous to me.

Scott Peck has a phrase that perfectly describes them - called "People of the Lie" - a refusal to accept or recognize the truth. they are toxic. contact with them can be harmful. i made the decision not to be pulled into their vortex ever again. i have resigned as their whipping boy and their scapegoat. they no longer have the power to hurt me.

step-dad died years ago and mom has dementia. so there is now no possibility of reconciliation. i am OK with that. i did more than could be expected to make things right - if such a thing were even possible.

you can go on, Sam. you do not need to remain open to more hurt. you have the resources you need to heal without their contributions, cooperation or collaboration. accept the situation for what it is. do what you've done so far - survive this loss - as you did the others.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#416523 - 11/18/12 01:07 AM Re: After confrontation... what next? [Re: SamV]
Letourski Offline


Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Sam, Lee

I read your posts and felt tremendous loss for the both of you. The family dynamic is vastly complex and I have been friends with more than a few people who have been abused in the ways you have described. Yet despite the transgressions they have maintained hope that one day their feelings will be validated. I have been asked a few times, will I always have hope? An almost impossible question for me to answer; my family has been supportive throughout most of my life.

Family love is primal, something we need as children. But as Lee said, you can live a solid life without your family. Embracing recovery means assessing the relationships that are toxic and letting them go. For me, that was letting go of the abusive relationship I had with myself. For others, it's the process of getting closure in whatever form that takes. Whether with confrontation or not. Truthfully, I can only surmise how difficult it is to leave your family behind, but truth be told they chose to leave you behind many years ago. You are a strong man to even entertain confrontation.

Sam, you are healing and you will continue to heal. The decision to confront and let go is a sure sign of establishing boundaries. The kinds of boundaries that were shattered by the very people who were supposed to care for you. I often use words like courageous and admirable, and often I feel they sound trite. But I do mean it from the very depth of heart. Heal on brother.

Sincerely,

Daniel
_________________________
I am the warrior.

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#416537 - 11/18/12 07:34 AM Re: After confrontation... what next? [Re: SamV]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Igor, Lee, Daniel, how did I get so fortunate as to have such caring, intelligent supporters? I am blessed and supported. May you too find such warmth in your lives as you have shared with me.

Igor, I am victorious. It is difficult sometimes to see the progress, but I am feeling better about who I am, the balance in my life and how I react to triggers and how I can support myself without negative, chaotic thinking. We shall run and win this race together I think!

Lee, I too have asked for the forgiveness of my perpetrators, crawling back to them on bloodied knees for a moment of their sunshine upon my wretchedness. Man, I am glad I can see that in the rear view mirror, you know? In setting personal boundaries, one of the main principles is to set the boundary in order to let go of the outcome. How simple, yet so impossible to understand without recovery. I let go of the anxiety of their potential sarcasm, how I thought they thought about what I thought... Sheesh! What is left is heartless non support. They are not going to own up to their perpetration and I am not going to keep begging. So be it. "The People of the Lie" is exactly what they are. I simply do not have room in my life anymore for them with all the powerful supporters I have now!

Daniel, you made me tear up! Your words are so heartening, thank you. I have met a few on here who have warm, supportive families and I admit to a jealousy. To have that support is truly a shelter. To be able to see the balance in how the controls of the abuse act in and out of me versus the love and care of a functional family must create a greater understanding of the "middle". As I have come to understand it, the balance, the middle of the extremes is a good, not perfect mixture of "go" versus "stop", "love" versus "sex", "social" versus "isolating", "aggressive" versus "assertive", affirming" versus "needy" and so on. To have parents and siblings that will comfort you and consistently show that support feels so good to imagine, Daniel, thank you for that wonderful image. Still you fight the fight on your own, and for that fellow survivor, you ARE courageous and admirable.

An addition to this saga; I again reached out to my younger brother. I texted him, telling him I had something against him and if he wanted to know what it was to ask me. His reply was I guess if you want to tell me. I told him to ask me again sometime. I was not desperate for his attention, I am growing beyond it. He responded "What, don't you have time now?" Impulsive, sarcastic jerk. In time I may come to find his level of "support" something I can live with. It is the same as a gutter dwelling, lice infested mongrel so focused on his own hide he cannot see the relief a foot in front of himself.

I am busy thriving, I ain't got time for that now. "A round of empowerment for me and my buds here bartender! Make it a double!!"

Sam
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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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