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#414330 - 10/26/12 07:16 AM Why doesn't the Christian God have a name?
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
My identity, my name, was STOLEN decades ago. Now that I have struggled these 44 years to find it again, I am positively JEALOUS about it. I want everyone to know my name, not just "husband", "man", "father", "loanee" or "worshiper". If I am made in God's image, then would not He want the same?

I have had many discussions with Christians and other faiths about why the Christian God's name is seldom used, obscured or dismissed. MOST other faiths have a clearly defined name that has been brought up through the centuries, translated through dead languages and is proudly used to name there God(s). The Holy Scriptures NAMES God over 7000 times, using the tetragrammaton, initials or the entire name, but Christians generally continue to use the title or position to address their heavenly Father.

I have heard: It's a sign of respect to use the title. Is it? With whom else does this work with? Which leads to... God is to be addressed differently. Is he? Does he want to be? Doesn't the Lord's Prayer begin with "Hallowed be thine NAME?

I do not wish to begin conflict or to digress into bickering. There is a strong, intelligent Christian base in MS and the S&S forum has been active and respectful. In reading the posts, I see God, Father, Holy One and other very respectful titles, but what is more respectful, more intimate, more comforting than a name?

Sam

PS... His real name means "He Causes to Become". That means no matter what He says he can will into existence, sustain and conclude. No matter what. What can be more desirable than to be known and called by that name?
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#414338 - 10/26/12 09:02 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
I'm going to say it's probably a Hold-over from Jewish Faith.

They took very serious the command to not use God's NAME in vain. So they never spoke His name, instead they always replaced it, when reading the scriptures with Adonai.

Anyway in your modern translation whenever you see LORD spelled out in all caps, the original Hebrew (old old pre-babylonian exile Hebrew) had YHWH or actually to be more correct: HWHY (Hebrew is read right to left and not left to right).

Also that old Hebrew had NO VOWELS! At least not when written.

After the Babylonian Exile, when the Persians had defeated the Babylonians, and the Hebrew people were permitted to leave and return to Israel, they suddenly had a whole new generation of Hebrew people who's native tongue was no longer Hebrew.... It was Babylonian.

SO when scribing new copies of the original Hebrew Scriptures, the scribes began adding vowel sound characters to better assist the younger generation with properly reading and pronouncing the Hebrew writings.

This is all good across the board EXCEPT for one case! That case dealt with reading aloud the name of God, and how seriously they took not using His name in vain.

Now..... If you don't want me to utterly ruin SO many songs and writings etc for you.... don't read what's next. I'll color it in white, just highlight the text if you really really want to read it.

Start Hidden text.
Whenever Scribes, making copies would be adding vowels to the text, when they came to the name of God, they added the vowels, NOT for God's name, but for Adonai! Why you may ask? As a reminder to the younger generation to instead say Adonai and not God's actual name. They really really did NOT want to pronounce it invain!

So.... when we come to modern translations, the original people to translate the Hebrew into a modern language were the Germans! Not being aware of this Hebrew imposed rule of replacing God's name, they translated the given vowels with the proper consonants and we got: Yehowah. Bring that from German to english, where some German consonants (which match english) make a different sound, we end up with Jehovah.

So why might this ruin so much Christian literature and songs.... Well it's just plain out WRONG. The proper consonants are A and E: and we get Yahweh. I find for my self, I just can't sing anything with Jahovah in it anymore. I always try to fit Yahweh in there! Which of course doesn't have the same number of syllables.

End Hidden text.

So like I said, the whole name thing and us not using it very much comes down to nothing more than tradition and "it's just always been done that way."

I agree with you though and often when I'm praying I'll use it and yes, it does make me feel more connected to God. You could also use "daddy" which is what anyone who uses "Abba" is actually saying.


Edited by JustScott (10/26/12 09:03 AM)

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#414342 - 10/26/12 09:26 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
He loves it when you all Him Big PaPa. Throw ya hands in the while you in prayer. Haha. Couldn't stop myself.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#414408 - 10/26/12 08:52 PM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Lol, Daddy and Big Pappa, wonderful, although my worship is a bit more structured, albeit more sanitized and maybe poorer for it.

The Greek Septuagint has a rendering of the initials and the insertion of vowels is across the board so the origin of the insertion does not concern me, but I value the history lesson. Jehovah works for me as I do not have any words I use without vowels, and as bratwurst, sauerkraut and Volkswagen came from German(y), and one even from Hitler's brain I hear, I am okay with that too.

What I am considering in this post is the absence of the Name. We have Jesus, the Apostles, some disciples and even Judas Iscariot, but not God's Name? What's up with that? The Hebrews felt that uttering the name of God was forbidden, but was that in the Scripture? If that was the tradition of the Jews, was it not the tradition that Jesus stood firmly against in the Christian Greek Scriptures?

Again I ask, does God(YHWY or Yahweh or Jehovah) wish to be called by his name, or his title? What as worshipers of our God do we gain or lose by not using his name? "Hallowed be thine name..." The first request in the commonly referred to Lord's Prayer...

I love that there is SOMETHING out there I can approximate to call him by a name. When I came to MS, WalkingSouth was a title, but John PM'd me and made me feel welcomed. Then FormerTexan emailed me about a Greeter potion, but Andy chatted with me about his home town. Tartagus posted about struggles with abuse recovery, but Chris Anderson chatted about the love he felt with co-creating MaleSurvivor.

I want to call upon my God, but Yahweh does not really do it for me, Jehovah sounds more like how I talk... I hope I do not offend. I am who I am, so I will use Jehovah. I will praise Jehovah in the streets, in the open spaces, in the privacy of my home and upon my bed in prayer.

I like that.
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#414410 - 10/26/12 09:13 PM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
If you don't have a dad, call him dad. I really don't think God cares about all that fancy stuff. The Lord's prayer is referring to the name "Jesus" not the name God. Jesus is above all names.
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Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#414412 - 10/26/12 10:05 PM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
In all actuality Father is probably the proper name. The Lord's Prayer is used a lot. We use to say it the locker room before football games. It is fine to say it the way it is written but is is actually intended to be a guide as to how we should pray. It says pray like this.... We should address God so we get to that level and clearly define who we pray too. Then we are to praise Him ( hallowed be thy name). It was by all purposes intended to tell us how we should pray and in what order. "Abba" is actually a great name for him in think. I believe it is Hebrew for Father. I call Him Father or Father God. But I believe in the Trinity and so praying to Jesus is just the sametime by those standards.


Edited by Country (10/27/12 12:00 AM)
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#414420 - 10/26/12 11:56 PM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Jesus is my Savior, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, amen. I do not disagree with anything here gentlemen.

If it is that it is Jesus, then to not use his name almost all the time feels like I am taking something away from him, but that could be the survivor talking. I would never want anyone to feel as hollow and empty as I once did. It is probably me fellow survivors, having a name is better than a position or title, but when a God or a god is involved, it may not matter as much. I am confident they have a different perspective than I.

It matters more to me what Jehovah/Jesus/Abba/God/Lord prefers than what tradition makes me feel. I have enjoyed the responses thus far, I am humbled by the faith and generosity of this post.

My deep appreciation, Sam
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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#414422 - 10/27/12 12:00 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
I agree Sam. What great post and questions.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#414448 - 10/27/12 08:09 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
In Aramaic (Jesus's language, dead language now), Abba means "daddy" or "papa". Dad, daddy, father, papa, etc. I'm sure he's cool with. Now, if you call God "ole man", he might not like it too much unless you're one that means that with affection. I always just say, "God". I pray "God.... and close with in Jesus name. Amen." Amen means "let it be done" by the way.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#414452 - 10/27/12 08:52 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
I use Father or Almighty God, but I always use a name, like Jehova,(prounounced hay-o-bah) in Spanish or the American rendering of the word. I like to think Spanish was around longer, maybe even some version of it was around in the days of Aramaic, although I think Aramaic was widely used. I like Father as my relationship with my own father has been separated from my heavenly Father thankfully.

Absolutely Amen, although I do get weird'ed out sometimes in personal prayer and using amen. I pray, I supplicate, so when I finish the prayer, I request it to be done. It feels redundant to the OCD in me... sigh. I will still use it regularly, and be uncomfortable until recovery helps me understand that too.

Thanks Phoenix, good points.
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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#414499 - 10/28/12 12:27 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
ALIVE 3n1 Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Throne Room of God
How does an infinitely pure being condescendingly communicate to a finite impure being? John Calvin summed it up "As a mother coo's to a baby." This definitely has it's shortcomings.

The knowledge that we are able to apprehend is in no way comprehensive.

When we address our Father in Heaven it must always be in Spirit and in Truth. The language that we use conveys the thought behind the words that we use. Even the moans and the tears that are shed in conviction and repentance are lovingly brought to our minds by the Holy Spirit searching our hearts. These too are a form of communication.

One thing that I have realized in my own walk is that the more I learn about God, the Holier in my own mind he becomes. I hope I conveyed that thought in a apprehending language.

Soli Deo Gloria,

Alive

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#414533 - 10/28/12 08:49 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Originally Posted By: ALIVE 3in1
The language that we use conveys the thought behind the words that we use. Even the moans and the tears that are shed in conviction and repentance are lovingly brought to our minds by the Holy Spirit searching our hearts.
Absolutely! Well said.

Struggling to communicate verbally what is felt in spirit is universal Alive. In fact, we are told as much, that we need to be drawn into worship and devotion to our God Jehovah, to the son Jesus through such spirit in order to comprehend the "deeper" things. In fact, the Scriptures bring out that He gives us understanding into which the angels desire to peer. 1 Peter 1:12

That we have such a knowledge gifted to us through the spirit helps us to understand these things, but indeed, as such is communicating with our hearts, the struggle is to then put such wonderful truths into verbal praise. This can be likened to a baby trying to communicate with it's mother and indeed a mother trying to communicate with an infant. The sounds are soothing, but to attempt to verbalize that communication would be improbably difficult.

In my personal relationship with God, I find he has always been Powerful, Just, Holy and Wise. Through the relationship with me earthly father, I also saw him as terrible, controlling and fierce. In the last few years I am beginning to build on His Love. In 2009, in May in fact, I was overwhelmed by such a powerful feeling about God, but I could not understand what it was. As I contemplated the feeling, I realized it was forgiveness. I had been taught that Paradise was most likely lost to me, so to have God grant me this gift, this forgiveness was like water to a parched man in the desert. I cried for days, I rejoiced that I knew unequivocally, I was to inherit Paradise. It was like lying in the hands of God, in His bosom position.., amazing. The relationship I have with Him now is vastly different and substantially better than I had controlled by the abuse.

God is wonderful in every way, especially in the way he makes his worshipers feel, each one so very important to him, we truly know who "gets this language" and we proudly serve with them in doing His Will.

Thank you Alive!
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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#414535 - 10/28/12 09:20 AM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 415
Loc: USA
How many gods with names like Ra and Apollo have turned out to be nothing but stone statues. Moses asked him his name, being one of the few people to actually hear His voice. He said: tell them I am that I am. This tell's me God is not hung up on a name. Why should He be, he is the Creator, and unique. I can do a lot of things well, but I look like other people, sound like many, have talents that others share so while I am unique in the combination of things that make me who I am and in my DNA, I am still similar to others. God is totally unique. He is the Great I Am. He does not need a name because there is no confusing him with anything else.
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“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#414564 - 10/28/12 03:09 PM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
In Hebrew there were many different names for God. Oftentimes a name usually emphasized a particular aspect of Gods character. One of my favorites is Rafa. It means "The Healer." Or "The one who heals."

I think it's ok to use any particular name if it helps you draw closer to God.

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#414570 - 10/28/12 04:28 PM Re: Why doesn't the Christian God have a name? [Re: SamV]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3601
Loc: South-East Europe
This is so nice thread.
For me personally it is wonderful to have God without name. I would need name if I'd speak to him but as I talk to Him always by my thoughts, in this way I feel Him more close and actually inseparable from me and my spirit.
Additionally my God is so humble that he doesn't have name, he let us to be completely free even we have so many imperfections, His generosity is limitless.
Call Him as you like: Allah, Jehovah, Father etc He is the same God smile
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