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#414111 - 10/23/12 11:43 PM Who is this little Jeff inside me?
lapchinj Offline
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#414114 - 10/24/12 01:12 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
DanM Offline
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Jeff,

I also have a difficult time grasping the concept of the little kid inside of me. Like you, I hid my abuse for 40+ years and was unable to make friends or be close to anyone other than my wife. There were periods of time when even we weren't even close.

In my mind, the little Dan in me ceased to exist after the abuse. My childhood ended and I was forced into another world where I isolated myself and withdrew from those around me. I have little or no recollection of the years prior to the abuse or following it.

So, to answer your question, I think you need to honor him and mourn him. He was someone who you knew long ago and has left to live in a better place. I personally don't think you can ever connect with that kid inside. We are the walking remains of his existence. Be kind and caring to your children and your grand children. Love them and hold them as you would Little Jeff. Let Jeff live through your life and the lives of your family.

I am sure this probably doesn't make any sense, but I think you have to believe that a part of Little Jeff is in each of your family members. Don't be afraid of them, you aren't toxic to them and they need you.

Dan

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#414119 - 10/24/12 01:41 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#414121 - 10/24/12 01:57 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
whome Offline
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HI Jeff, (he says as he wipes a tear out his eye)
I remember you, the you that first came on to this site, remember, you denied point blank that you had been abused. I remember having long mail arguments with you about this. I remember when you said "OK it was abuse" and now I read this and feel almost like a proud dady would at the progress that you have made.
It might not feel like progress to you now, but always remember that it is.

I also struggled with the inner child thing and felt that people were just reciting some psycho mambo jumbo.
Then one day I remembered a photo of me as a child, cute little boy with blonde curls and blue eyes. I asked my dad if he still had it and when I got it I started to cry. I cried for the fact that I could have been a really confident healthy adult, handsome and self assured. I cried for the innocence lost for that little boy. I cried that he had been hurt and I cried that he was now lost to me.

But then as time went on I started to remember small bits of info, times that I was playing with my only childhood friends, 2 of them, and how we used to run around the neighborhood.

Jeff, it takes one small memory to open the flood gates, well trickle gates in my situation, when small trickles of happiness come through, and this is when we find our inner child, the innocence lost, and the pretty kid that we could have been.

Don't stress about it and keep working as hard as you have been thus far. I see great changes in you. Well done mate.

Just one more thing, I don't know if you have ever been to the AA meetings and if you can get a AA big Book and read pages 72 and 73. There they talk about getting into a group and telling someone EVERYTHING. As long as you keep some of your past a secret it will haunt you. Its tough, but the rewards are tremendous, and it is NEVER to late to change.

Heal Well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
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#414126 - 10/24/12 02:26 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Online   confused
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Like you all – Jeff, Dan, Martin - I never could relate to the inner child concept either – and didn't really see the need to. I felt like that identity was so far in the past and so damaged that I had no connection with it (not even “him” – it was an abstract idea.) I could imagine what I had looked like before the abuse started – but did not remember much about feelings “before.” There were some visual images and memories of events but no emotional content. The first real emotions I remembered were negative, painful ones after the abuse started. So I didn’t know who or what I was supposed to connect with – the presumably happy child who was under 6 and didn’t know what was about to happen – or the miserable boy who was plunged into terror and pain at about 6 and continued to suffer until he disconnected his emotions at 11 and became one of the walking dead. The over-11 zombie boy was so close to my current state that there didn’t seem to be any difference between us – so “he” was out – he was me.

The breakthrough I finally got was by using my imagination – asking – what do I wish someone had told that 6-year-old when the abuse and confusion started to engulf him? What would have helped him to get through the next 12 years, better equipped to endure, survive, and later – to heal? It was really more of an attempt to consolidate what i had gained than an attempt to connect with an inner child. So I wrote my younger self a letter – as if it was to a stranger – with all the things I had learned that might have helped him. And before I finished, I was feeling compassion, grief, and a fierce protectiveness towards him. It was a powerful experience. He became real to me and now I can understand a lot more about him – and about the present me.

He and I are still not the best of friends. We don't hang out or go on walks or have conversations. There is a lot of distance between us. He likes to hide and sometime surprises me by popping into my mind when I don’t expect it. But we are at peace now. I don’t blame him for anything anymore. He couldn’t help what happened. I’d have been there for him if I could have been. My biggest regret is that we were strangers for so long.

(and that last paragraph is much more concrete than what I actually feel. it is a metaphor. What I actually feel is not nearly that definite – but more vague – but that is the general sense of it.)

Lee


Edited by traveler (10/24/12 02:28 AM)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#414127 - 10/24/12 03:17 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: whome]
lapchinj Offline
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#414128 - 10/24/12 03:54 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
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#414146 - 10/24/12 08:37 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
cant_remember Offline
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(((((Jeff))))))

When I think about your story, the "boiling frog" analogy comes to mind, although I think, scientifically, the concept is a myth. That is, if one puts a frog in a pan of water and slowly increases the heat, the frog won't know it's in trouble until it's boiling.

Your sfather was a master at grooming you, slowly starting you so that by the time you were in over your head, you thought (and still think) that you were responsible for getting yourself into that situation, when that is simply not true.

I have an inner boy frozen inside of me. He is the one that tells me to act out to re-create my abuse. When he is getting what he wants, I become pre-verbal, obedient and compliant.

The fact that you do not is interesting... and might speak to the way in which your sfather groomed you so that you didn't dissociate during the sexual initiation with him, so your primary self-state was still the self-state getting used when the johns and movie producers were using you. -- just a theory.

Cant
_________________________
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#414151 - 10/24/12 10:01 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#414184 - 10/24/12 07:01 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
petercorbett Offline
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Hi, my fraternal brothers.

Finding little Jeff & who is he?

Powerful question, no easy answers.

I just happen to be a lucky boy/man, as I have connected to my inner child.

I will give some references on our inner child,that if you have the listed guide books perhaps it'll give you all some help.
I would give the written paragraphs here, but I'm not sure if that is legal taking notes from their books.

But the books might be available at your local library.
So here is for now what i can offer in helping.

Books,
Beyond Betrayal. Chapter 11, page 176.

Victims No Longer. Chapter 5, page 82.

Broken Boys/Mending Men. A personal reference, page 116, 2ND last paragraph.

Wishing my brother Jeff, here all the best emotionally & mentally connecting to his inner child.

I offer my same wishes for all my other brothers in seeking their inner child.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me."

Pete..Irishmoose.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#414197 - 10/24/12 09:38 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#414199 - 10/24/12 09:56 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
petercorbett Offline
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Jeff,

Start talking about his INNOCENSE, as HE is YOU.

Young Jeff was not responsible for any of those horrible things.

His male seducers were. By drugs, torture, coercion, etc.

Again, my brother Jeff, those other kids that you had to do horrible things to were just like you. INNOCENT & they were Victims too.

Those adults were to blame.

Shalom, my brother, Jeff, Shalom & may peace be with you.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#414204 - 10/24/12 10:27 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#414377 - 10/26/12 02:06 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 12:44 PM)

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#414385 - 10/26/12 04:30 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
MarkK Offline
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Jeff - if I may suggest ....
Accept "Little Jeff". Accept the fact he did what he needed to do to survive. Don't associate blame or fault. I seem to hear accusation when you speak of him. I think it's time for him (and you) to receive full pardon.
For me, it started by loving myself. And in that I mean accepting me AS I AM and AS I WAS. That little guy went thru hell but he survived. I had to let go of the "need" to know everything (I still know less than maybe 10% of my childhood). And I had to grieve the fact I would never have the childhood that I want even now. I can't give my little guy a better childhood, but I can and will give him the acceptance that he did what he had to do. Whether someone was forcing him, or whether it was for self preservation - that small, unknowing, frightened, confused child was lost in the world and in himself. He can find himself now. In me. And know he is loved, he is cherished, and I am so very proud of his ability to make it through the .....stuff.
Even during the worst of it, the little guy was innocent. Those were not his wishes, his wants, his needs that were being fulfilled.
... anyhoo - that's my take and how it's working for me. I now have one of my favorite pictures of the little guy, transferred to a child's T-shirt which is worn proudly by the teddy bear that sits in a place of honor in my home. And I will honor that child with every breath that I have. For as long as I have.
_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#414398 - 10/26/12 06:01 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#414402 - 10/26/12 06:45 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#414469 - 10/27/12 01:26 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 12:44 PM)

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#415119 - 11/02/12 05:41 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#415124 - 11/02/12 05:49 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
MarkK Offline
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accept him
_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#415133 - 11/02/12 06:26 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Lancer Offline
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Glad to see you online Jeff. I know what it feels like post-storm having been there myself. Damn you're doing good for the first week. So, a part of me has been with you since Monday. Leave space for yourself to have bad days, too.

Two thots:

1. Most immediate, though it sounds you're coping relatively well, you're less than a week past the storm. That's a trauma. This kind of trauma is difficult, like some CSA, because there are no immediately obvious physical signs. Your head's gonna be weird for a while...and the heads of those around you. Especially when it comes to tempers flaring. A lot of your world, your security was literally blown away. Your routine continues to be interrupted. I only began to feel normal when the electric went back on...after three weeks and then I collapsed from exhaustion. No one recovers from trauma on the same schedule. If nothing else, go easy on yourself if you can. Also, if you're able to share that insight with the family, you're all on the same page.

2. What to do with Little Jeff? I recognize the aversion you'd have to pictures. Nevertheless, this helped me. I dug up some childhood pix, like my avatar, and I talked to Little Lancer because I'm the one who knows him best. I'm the adult he needed, but didn't have. But he has me now. Mygawd, I cried, sobbed, etc. Little Lancer is feeling a lot safer these days...and I still have chats (and cries) with him.

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#415245 - 11/03/12 10:32 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#415246 - 11/03/12 10:55 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
cant_remember Offline
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We love you as you are, Jeff.

We hope that we can keep you sane now, like your friends did back then.

How's your electricity & power situation now? Doing better?

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#415250 - 11/04/12 12:34 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: cant_remember]
pufferfish Offline
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Inner child?

EMDR fixed my feeling of being little Puffer and adult Whatsisname. Was that good? Did I lose something or someone invaluable by becoming a singleton? Or is there still someone lurking in the shadows ( sick ) ? Little Puffer was such a troubled kid, feeling all the shame and terror of the abuse. Is he just hiding somewhere?

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (01/22/13 12:00 PM)

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#415256 - 11/04/12 01:32 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#415258 - 11/04/12 01:48 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Lancer Offline
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Hey Jeff --

Did I mention you might be under Just A LiTTle STRE$$???? imo, screw "optimism". I mean, hell, if you're gonna lose it, might as well enjoy the ride. I think you've got a pretty valid excuse.

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#415337 - 11/04/12 09:42 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#415344 - 11/04/12 10:32 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: Lancer]
pufferfish Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lancer
Hey Jeff --

Did I mention you might be under Just A LiTTle STRE$$???? imo, screw "optimism". I mean, hell, if you're gonna lose it, might as well enjoy the ride. I think you've got a pretty valid excuse.


That's entirely cute

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#415346 - 11/04/12 11:28 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#415348 - 11/04/12 11:58 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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I definitely have depersonalization disorder. When I see a picture of myself as I am now, I experience surprise that I look like that. I think that I'm really a kid. It's not 100%. I basically know I'm a crazy old man who thinks he looks like a kid. And I have that symptom that I don't want to lose the kid. I look for who I am in other people. I would suppose the dissociative identity disorder was helped by EMDR. But I still have some level of dissociative disorder. I also have a music personality.

I have been diagnosed as DIDNOS. But there are some symptoms that make me think it was pretty bad.

I know that these problems are because I experienced sexual abuse at age 4 and then kidnap at age 12. The last EMDR session I had went into the terror I felt in kidnap. It was so extremely severe that I split off in the session. I don't know how to deal with this.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (11/05/12 12:16 AM)

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#415350 - 11/05/12 12:18 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#415359 - 11/05/12 01:56 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Lancer Offline
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Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Oh Puffer, and I thought I looked like a cute teddy bear. But I looked in the mirror this morning and Lancer's version of stress did look cute compared to me.

Peace,Rainbows & Healing
Jeff


oh MY. What HAVE I done?

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#415386 - 11/05/12 09:55 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#415579 - 11/07/12 09:27 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
KMCINVA Offline
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Trauma is something that impacts us all so differently. How we react from inception of the traumatic event will impact us through life unless we receive help and support. I have been learning about trauma and interestingly I was speaking with a cousin yesterday and we were talking along with her mother. She is a recovering alcoholic--she battled for several years and finally found the right therapist who began to treat the root cause--her trauma. She began to realize the why she drank and actions she may have done were not from the "drinking gene" because many have it and do not drink. The real issue what drove her to drink--why was she using it as a coping skill--her trauma. Her mother looked at us as we were talking--old school and judgmental as to why people drink. We talked about splitting, dissociation, compulsion and addictions as coping skills. In the end I think her mother was getting a better understanding of what we were talking about with trauma--a "really instead of a judgmental response--will it hold?. We did not even have to identify our individual traumas to each other because we had a better understanding of trauma from having lived it. So Jeff, trauma effects us all different. And it is important you surround yourself with people-support groups and therapists who understand between 70-80% of suicides, depression and other mental conditions have a root in childhood trauma-sex abuse, bullying, natural disasters, abandonment, etc. In the past the trauma was not treated but rather the "illness". You will have good days and bad days--your symptoms may be more pronounced at times, your child and parts will react differently to the trauma, but not like me, try to remain in the here and now--easier said than done. But you are healing now, you may not realize it--but being here, talking about yourself and the abuse allow you to acknowledge what has happened. Keep going, and do not let the bad days keep you from moving forward.


Edited by KMCINVA (11/07/12 09:37 AM)

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#415885 - 11/10/12 09:41 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/16/13 05:22 PM)
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Stick around, It will get better....

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#415895 - 11/11/12 12:20 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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When I find I'm upset at bedtime, I take a herbal valerian. It is supposedly what valium is derived from. I got it at the health food store.

Puffer

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#415921 - 11/11/12 09:57 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417885 - 12/01/12 08:24 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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Jeff - I read and re-read your incredibly moving post. This is what really stuck out for me:

Quote:
I cannot say what happened to me before the age of 10 simply because I don't remember anything about those years. I don't even remember if I had any friends.

How can you expect to know little Jeff when the memories of your childhood were so completely amputated from you? I've known you here for a year now and the beauty of who you are doesn't just materialize from adulthood. Little Jeff is there every day. I know that doesn't help you know him better, but maybe it helps to know that your heart has touched mine - the little Eric in me loves little Jeff. I've been getting to know him and I hope someday you will find him. If the adult Jeff is any indication, he was a great kid. And as a now adult to another adult, I say that with full respect.
_________________________



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#417886 - 12/01/12 08:32 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: Chase Eric]
pufferfish Offline
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Guys like made manifest in Eyes Wide Shut.

I'm little Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (01/22/13 11:57 AM)

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#417889 - 12/01/12 09:05 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417890 - 12/01/12 09:06 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: pufferfish]
lapchinj Offline
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#417905 - 12/02/12 12:43 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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Originally Posted By: lapchinj
I hear what you say Eric but those things I did when I was 10 to 18 I'm responsible for what I did not some other little kid named also jeff and let him take the blame off me. It's not someone else that did this shit.

Sorry I misunderstood, Jeff - I wasn't suggesting that your younger self was to blame nor do I even come close to thinking that - I thought you were just talking about your frustration at not finding a connection to that child. The confusion is all mine - sorry. Didn't mean to stir that up but I somehow did - no surprise with me lately. Don't take what I say too seriously until I find my mind and manners again. frown
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#417910 - 12/02/12 08:44 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
SoccerStar Offline
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Jeff,

Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn - we've never spoken before and this is rather an odd "hello".

But all throughout this thread you've been talking about your "responsibility," that it wasn't some younger alternate but still you as you are today. The emotional continuity, makes sense.

Feeling "responsible", though? Because you "didn't say no"?

Jeff, you were tortured. Really literally dictionary-picture-level tortured. You mentioned several such grisly incidents and it only takes one to "count." That's the sort of thing that destroys the ability to resist - leaving only a life or death choice, which is no choice at all. I'd humbly suggest that be a frame around feelings of responsibility / not leaving.

POSSIBLE TRIGGERS - VIOLENCE / DEATH
In Auschwitz and its related death camps, some men of a certain age and size would be recruited for "pusher duty." Pulled out of the line to the gas chamber and told to wait by a metal cart. Soon the bodies of their entire families, all their relatives, children, all of their neighbors and friends, every other person from their hometown, would be brought to them and they would have to push the bodies on the cart into the oven intakes. Or be shot then and there and the next guy of the right size would push. But as a rule, no shootings were necessary. People in that situation did what they had to do for the sake of their own pulse - all they had left, the one thing they could cling to and so cling they did as everything else literally went up in smoke. This process is followed in nothing-to-imagine detail in the film "The Grey Zone," which makes Schindlers List look like Strawberry Shortcake.

What is responsibility when you are tortured? When you will plainly be killed, when you have met your willing murderer and his capable murder weapon?

If someone's just gonna gas and cremate an entire village, there's gotta be a cart pusher. If someone's just gotta film pedo porn, there's gotta be a kid. And if they say no they will be shot and replaced by someone who didn't.

You were right to value your life, Jeff. At any age. And though we dont know each other, I've read your posts, read of your family, and the preposterous odds against you getting this far in life. And I'm glad you're alive. And I'd high-five / man-hug the person *responsible* for that.

Matt





Edited by SoccerStar (12/02/12 08:48 AM)
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#417913 - 12/02/12 10:10 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Mountainous Buck Offline
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Jeff

Finally caught up with your post-

THANK YOU for putting all this out there.

I especially liked the responses of MarkK and whome.

You wrote: "I basically don't know if that inner child is just my past or he is someone else. Coming to terms with him? I feel bad that I never had a real childhood. I could have had it but I turned the wrong corner. I'm ashamed at what I did and that's why I've been hiding all these years. I don't know how to escape from it."

You are not hiding these days.

You are willing to be open And honest about your life.

And lots of questions and issues come up after years of hiding and running.

I totally get that.

Who is my inner child? He's the confused, scared part of me that didn't get safety, nurturing, or the freedom to be a boy all those years ago.

As I learn to drain the swamp of shame about what choices I madein my Life, something happens. It is more clear to me the damage and abuse that others inflicted upon me and i can throw that back where it came from. And as I see this more clearly, I am better able to choose to reject the ideas, fear, self hatred, violence, the confused and damaged sexuality and broken intimacy - the entires legacy- and begin to reclaim my life.

The hardest thjngs on this recovery journey for my adult self are:

1)Having fun
2) being compassionate with myself. (Literally " co-suffering with")
3) sticking up for myself.

Climb a little higher today.

Jamie
_________________________
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It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#417916 - 12/02/12 10:53 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417917 - 12/02/12 11:02 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
cant_remember Offline
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Hi Jeff,

I think SoccerStar has a great post above. You should not feel guilty for being a survivor. But "survival guilt" is a term for a reason: many survivors suffer from it.

So don't feel bad about feeling guilty. The fact that we can feel anything is a miracle, even if what we feel is illogical or irrational.

Cant
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#417918 - 12/02/12 11:15 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417921 - 12/02/12 11:32 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417922 - 12/02/12 11:40 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Hey Eric,

No your correct, you didn't misunderstand anything, I just don't see that kid. It was me that did that shit and I still see me as that hustler and not anyone else. I just don't see that little jeff.

We are so similar. I'm absolutely no better than any other hustler, Jeff. And in fact I was stupider (is that a word?). I proffered myself to someone for a price as surely as you did. The currency of our trade was different, but we knew the value of our wares and what they could bring us. We knew the value of our bodies and the weaknesses of those who desired them, and manipulated that to our ends (figuratively speaking). I may have peddled my butt to the guy next door for the price of my baby sister (and interjected myself for some other girls as well), but I was 13. What the fuck did I know? If he offered ice cream, I probably would have done it for that, too. When he whined and pleaded, I'd be comliant just so he'd stop being so pitiful. How cheap is THAT? No wonder I have no business sense. I was probably a cheaper slut than I would care to pretend otherwise. As one guy put it in the ASA forum - it wasn't violent rape where I had no choice, but instead was "getting felt up for a Popsicle" in it's fundamental essence. That implies complicity, and I guess we own that.

But I don't mean to hijack this and I only mention my experience to illustrate a point. It comes back to you. I'm no expert. But I can relate. And - like you should be consider doing - I've forgiven myself because, hey, I was just a fucking kid. I didn't know the value of ANYTHING. I didn't know the worth of what I was trading myself for (not much, since he got to her a lot anyways as she told me almost a year ago). And I didn't know the value of what I was selling, either. My sexual identity was worth a lot more than I could possibly have imagined at 13. It's like selling a stamp collection for ten bucks - thinking that was huge - then finding out it was worth ten thousand. Sometimes life just isn't long enough to recoup that kind of loss. It was enough to enter my adulthood just carrying the lament. So I have tried to leave the guilt at the door.
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#417923 - 12/02/12 11:55 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417924 - 12/02/12 12:04 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417926 - 12/02/12 12:09 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Mountainous Buck Offline
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Jeff
Thanks for your response.

I have some questions to challenge you- and to tell u the swamp is about my shame and my mistakes and my f** ups since approximately the age of 15-16.

This includes a deep search for power, affirmation, nurturing and male intimacy -(my father never provided or modeled this for me) the only way I was taught- searching out and being sexual with other males who met my needs. Owning all this acting out and relentless search was part of my healing.

Shame kills.

So can you get over your mistakes?

You were not taken advantage of ?
Adults and older males always looked out for you and helped you develop as a safe mature man?

It's a complicated story, but recovery is also about Untangling the messages and getting healing for our wounds and moving ahead.


Edited by Mountainous Buck (12/02/12 01:11 PM)
_________________________
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#417927 - 12/02/12 12:24 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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Yeah, Jeff but I know your story, too. You had an electric torture device shoved in you and worked under the threat of serious harm by not cooperating. Taking responsibility for your participation is precisely the manipulative goal of the adults' psychological game.

Step outside yourself and picture some other poor kid in the exact same scenario. Are you telling me he'd carry blame? Are you saying he deserves a share of the guilt? Can you possibly believe he carries a single thread of responsibility?

Or do you just hold yourself to a different standard?
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#417928 - 12/02/12 12:32 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
KMCINVA Offline
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Iii think we each hold ourselves to a different standard and feel responsible for others and also harbor guilt and the feeling of being responsible for what happened to us. For others I feel sympathy and can tell them they were a child and should not feel guilt or hold themselves responsible, but for me--I cannot accept.

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#417942 - 12/02/12 03:31 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: KMCINVA]
petercorbett Offline
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Jeff,

My brother, so here we go again. I'll spare you once again trying to get you to come around here in the public pages.

I don't ever want someone to think that we are in a pissing contest with each other. We all have our own way trying to come to terms with ourselfs.

So, my brother, Jeff, only three more days and you will be rid of your Irishmoose and his vast amounts of wisdom & eloquent words.

Check your PM's....I'll be waiting, my brother.

Wishing all my brothers here well in healing.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.
Pete..Irishmoose.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#417943 - 12/02/12 03:38 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Mountainous Buck Offline
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Irish moose-

What do you mean by "So, my brother, Jeff, only three more days and you will be rid of your Irishmoose and his vast amounts of wisdom & eloquent words."???
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#417948 - 12/02/12 04:22 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
petercorbett Offline
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Hi, my brothers.

Well, this Irishmoose is off to Germany on the 6th for the Christmas holidays to be with his, boys.

The loves of his life.

I might not have access to a computer & therefore our daily contacts via PM't to each other will probably be non existant until I return on the 7th Of Jan. I hope that we both can survive with out each other.

Nothing serious, Sorry for raising a red flag, my brothers.

Wishing you all well in healing.

Also extending my Christmas & Hanukkah grettings of peace, serenity, love & hope. To my brothers here, my family.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#417959 - 12/02/12 05:38 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:11 PM)

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#417972 - 12/02/12 08:53 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417973 - 12/02/12 09:08 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#417976 - 12/02/12 09:49 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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Guys,

I have heard about cattle prods. I have not had any experience with them. I'm glad to say that. If those things had been invented when I was being tortured at age 12, I'm sure he would have used it. It is something like a charcoal lighter for a bar-b-que but bigger. It can make a bull move when he doesn't want to. But when used on a human being it has to be a cruel tool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_prod

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cattle-prod.htm

I heard about these tools when I went to the school where Temple Grandin now teaches. She abhors the hurting of animals and she would never use one even on cows. So if it's not good with cows then what kind of a person would use it on a little boy? You answer.

I hope this response does not encourage the use of this instrument more.

Puffer

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#417978 - 12/02/12 10:08 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
petercorbett Offline
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(((Jeff))),

Steady as she goes, my brother. You are way too deep inside of yourself.
You are not and were not of your choosing either a prostitute and certainly not a murderer.

You were murdered by those adults whom had power & control over you.
They murdered you emotionally, mentally, in mind, body & soul. Just the same as if they had physically killed you outright.

Please try and ground yourself, my brother, Jeff.

Pete..Irishmoose.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#417985 - 12/02/12 11:09 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
SoccerStar Offline
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Jeff,

"I seem to disregard the threats and concentrate on the fact that I did it"

Well, it's good to recognize that face-on. I myself can't convince you that you're being unfair to yourself, and I doubt this whole thread could either - but I hope it at least puts the point into your mind and you'll entertain the idea. Because, yes, those threats are the entire point - the prime motivator behind everything you consider to be the very worst from your past.

And as horrific as the incident with electricity was, that was not the only one I was referring to as torture. You also related an incident with knives, and at least one other (possibly more) with asphyxiation.

I only zero in on those because earlier in this thread someone said it took you some time to even grant you'd been abused in any way at all - so I urge you to give these incidents the "motivation" credence that they are due.

Not to pry, but - have you shared with your therapist all of these multiple incidents when you suffered assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder, kidnapping, and torture? And have you and the T called them out explicitly as such? Again - it's the ground on which you're walking in self-blame.


"I knew [the filming] would only last a few hours and I could go home. but the people in the camps didn't have that option."

But how were you, or they, to know that at the time?

Someone who will torture will kill. As soon as you experienced these assaults it opened the door to entirely believable and motivating threat of re-assault. The electricity, the knives - perhaps they each only happened once. But what would have stopped them from happening again? What could have ASSURED YOU AT THAT TIME that they wouldn't happen again? Nothing. They could just as likely have happened again once a month for a year, or again once a week for six months, or whatever. What could possibly have saved you - other than obeying?

The people in the death camps who were compelled to play a role in the process in order to save their own lives had no idea how long or short their reprieve would be. Once you started to "play along" in the death camps, those later caught attempting to rebel would typically be thrown into the ovens still alive - a known and well-documented punishment. Some of them bought themselves a few weeks before the end - others found a way to lay low, be seen as obedient and unthreatening, and lived on for years to be liberated and try to rebuild something after the war. It was really an hour-by-hour affair.

With that hanging over a person, they will do anything.


I posed this riddle to Crazy Gecko a few days back when he was aghast at himself for the possibility that he may in self-defense have fatally stabbed one of his perps:

What do you call someone who will do absolutely anything to stay alive?

You call them 'alive'.

And yes, Jeff, you were very much right in one of your follow-up posts. There was every likelihood and every opportunity in the world that if you'd ever raised a fuss they'd have killed you. It was "just a few hours" when you did as ordered. If you'd disobeyed it would have been a few years wrapped up in bedsheets under the East River until the last traces were gone. Sorry to be so visceral - but when someone successfully saves their own life so many times, however necessary, it deserves to be pointed out.

If you haven't already gone over with your therapist the full spectrum of physical torture and attempted murder that you faced please do. I suspect he/she will find it really important and I can only hope it will help you get a little closer to relinquishing some self-blame. It's just more victimization from people who've already laid far, far too much onto you.

Matt



Edited by SoccerStar (12/02/12 11:43 PM)
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#418010 - 12/03/12 06:42 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418011 - 12/03/12 06:45 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418016 - 12/03/12 08:09 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
SoccerStar Offline
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No one does and you're not.
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#418018 - 12/03/12 08:12 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Mountainous Buck Offline
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Have a great appointment

And thanks for sharing your fear about being thought of as a scumbag.

It is proof how far off your self perception is- I view you as a man of integrity asking honest questions and Not afraid to share or speak up.

I think you rock for bringing this topic up and claiming this space and time to work thru this.

Safe strong hugs at ya!
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#418020 - 12/03/12 08:14 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
peroperic2009 Offline
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((((Jeff)))) wink
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#418033 - 12/03/12 10:14 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
SoccerStar Offline
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Oh, and following up from Pufferfish's post:

If they could actually change the voltage / pain level during use, that makes me suspect a picana: adapted from cattleprods but redesigned specifically and solely for the purpose of torturing humans. In use since the 1930s and the application mechanism is a perfect match for what you describe.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picana

I advise against googling it since one of the first results are pictures of real use on real people in real torture - somewhere in South America. "Faces of Death" level omega trigger shit.


Edited by SoccerStar (12/03/12 10:16 AM)
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#418055 - 12/03/12 03:28 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:12 PM)

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#418099 - 12/03/12 10:32 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418100 - 12/03/12 10:36 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418102 - 12/03/12 10:43 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Online   confused
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(((((((JEFF)))))))
i am awed.
words are inadequate.
i am so thankful you have gotten this far.

keep healing, brother!
lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#418104 - 12/03/12 10:51 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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{{{Jeff}}}
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#418105 - 12/03/12 10:54 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: traveler]
pufferfish Offline
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Jeff

That took a lot of courage.

I forgive you.

You may never find those kids. You probably won't. You may have to find a living person abused as a kid and minister to his needs and tell him you're sorry. That person might be your 'standin' for you needs to feel forgiven.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (12/03/12 10:55 PM)

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#418113 - 12/03/12 11:31 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Farmer Boy Offline
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Jeff

I read this today and I am nearly speachless.

I am going to try to put into words what is going on in my head.

Thankyou for sharing this stuff with us.

I haven't posted here but I've been here the whole time. What you have shared here about how you feel about what they made you do has helped me find understanding in my heart for my abusers. I know the situation is not the same but when I was little I was abused by teenager boys who were themselves being abused. Now no one 'made' them do it like in your case. But had they not been abused themselves I do not feel that they would have done the stuff to me that they did. I forgave them a long time ago.

That doesn't change the fact that I'm messed up because of what they did. It just means that I do not hold them responsible for their actions.

I have never felt that I could blame them for what they did to me because it wasn't their fault. The blame lies with the older men that started the abuse. The grown ups. You were not a grown up then - you were little Jeff. I'm am sure that those kids know that it was not your fault either and that they do not blame you. I'm sure that they blame the sick adults that abused all of you.

I know it is hard (we can be our own worst critic sometimes) but please don't be so hard on yourself.

IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!
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#418114 - 12/03/12 11:33 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: pufferfish]
petercorbett Offline
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(((Jeff))).

Glad you found little Jeff, as HE is YOU. That boy/man had great courage in writing that letter.

Compassion, understanding, hope & love in trying to heal your wounds. And those of others.

Go easy on yourself, my brother. Be kind & gentle on yourself.
Believe in yourself.

"I will take that lost boys hand and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#418120 - 12/04/12 12:20 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: petercorbett]
SoccerStar Offline
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Jeff,

The true criminals in this case never felt any remorse and at this point never will. But you have enough to cover the whole horde of them - I guess it had to be balanced out somehow.

No one holds you responsible because you weren't. You were nothing but the "alpha victim," and if you didn't do it, your replacement would have. The "omega victims" were beyond rescue. For some there is no justice in this world.


In myths from antiquity, opening Pandora's Box unleashed every evil and disease and cruelty into the world to plague humankind forever. But at the bottom of the box was Hope, and it was all that the unfortunate people had to cling to in trying to withstand all the rest of it.

Somewhere, Jeff, somewhere you found hope. It might not even have felt that way, but just living and building a life and family for yourself would have been impossible without it. I am so glad you found it. And, even more than before, I am so glad you are alive.

When your life was your own, you did only good things and none of what the criminals demanded would ever have entered your mind. The strongest proof of this is the life that you have lived once it became your own once again. THAT is the real Jeff - young or old. A good person at heart - and a good person who deserved to live, and who was right to stay alive.

Bless you.
Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#418136 - 12/04/12 07:11 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Mountainous Buck Offline
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Good work Jeff,

Give yourself some time off to let all this sink in.

It brings up a good question for future sharing:

"How do we help repair the damage we were part of in the past?"
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#418140 - 12/04/12 08:24 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418173 - 12/04/12 03:14 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
petercorbett Offline
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Registered: 07/27/08
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My brother, Jeff,

Celebrate your emotions & feelings of finally finding and understanding young Jeff.
Taking him from those years of emotional & mental, guilt, pain, shame. Locked in the depths of his soul. To let him speak of his innocence and sadness for things done to him & things that he had to do to other young innocent victims.

Young Jeff, always was an innocent victim, just as much as those other young kids were. All unable to understand nor comprehend what was happening to them.

As you come to listen & love that young boy, easing his hurts & fears, bringing him further out from inside of himself into the truth and light, you will also grow as that man. Without the yolk of guilt, pain & shame weighting you down.

Celebrate that boy, As HE is YOU.

Wishing you continuing success in healing.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#418186 - 12/04/12 06:07 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:13 PM)

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#418190 - 12/04/12 06:37 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418287 - 12/05/12 05:08 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:14 PM)

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#418330 - 12/05/12 10:48 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418428 - 12/07/12 08:38 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418431 - 12/07/12 08:58 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Little Jeff was not an ordinary, well adjusted 15 year old. He was an abused, tortured child who did what he had to do to survive.

This is what I realised about the younger version of me that I have been struggling with. He did a lot of terrible things, often while understanding that they were wrong. But he wasn't mentally able to make those decisions. The real crime was, firstly, to deny him the environment he needed to grow into a normal, well adjusted teenager, and secondly, to put him in the situation where he needed to make those decisions. Little Jeff should never have had to choose between abusing others or being tortured. That's a lose-lose situation that no child, let alone still a child who is already mentally damaged, should ever be placed in.

No, little Jeff was not responsible because he was no more able to take that responsibly than a little kid is able to consent top sex...


Edited by crazy gecko (12/07/12 09:05 AM)
Edit Reason: stupid auto correct on my phone...
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#418433 - 12/07/12 09:15 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
SoccerStar Offline
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Shawn Hornbeck - kidnapping victim and sex slave from 11-14 - after 4 years of rape and torture and child porn and at least one serious murder attempt on him - helped his perp kidnap the next victim Ben Ownby and then stood guard over the younger boy so he couldn't escape before the perp broke him.

Upon rescuing the boys, the DA took about 4 minutes to declare that no, obviously Hornbeck would not be charged with anything.

Was that a mistake, Jeff? Should he have been found responsible for kidnapping, conspiracy, accessory to rape? Bill O'Reilly gave Hornbeck a hard time fir not just walking away, since he was allowed to walk around town and even ride a bike - you do the same for "Little Jeff." But what is "away" when you can be attacked at any time by someone who has proven they can destroy you? When you can be attacked anywhere and are safe nowhere? When you can't even control your own body and someone 40 years and many warm beds away says you should have been in control as much as Houdini escaping a straitjacket underwater?

Another case study - Todd Bequette, kidnapped / sex slaved / tortured from 13-14, also eventually given some amount of walk-around privileges, also forced to help trick and kidnap subsequent victims.

When someone is tortured and assaulted with deadly weapons and has mo sense of safety or escape, they will do what they must to live.

One of my favorite cousins is 14. He's hilarious and bright and kind and outgoing, really a kid anyone would be proud to have as a son. He's also a CHILD, he looks and acts like one, and my blood curdles at thinking of him as a proxy to "Little Jeff." Honestly the CSA would seem less hideous in his case than the physical brutality, attempted murder, and use of professional torture devices invented in the secret police dungeons of fascist dictatorships that have no function but to break and enslave people. I survived CSA, people survive it as awful as it is, but upon any thought of extreme violence befalling that cousin of mine, I'm sorry, I can't envision him surviving. I seriously would not be able to conceive of him NOT just dying right away. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING, that would get him to live would be in-bounds. I read your story and I still repeat: ANYTHING.


Edited by SoccerStar (12/07/12 10:25 AM)
_________________________
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"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#418443 - 12/07/12 04:24 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418445 - 12/07/12 04:33 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: SoccerStar]
Chase Eric Offline
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Hey Jeff -

Like everyone else here, I'm in the middle of my own sordid history and won't pretend to have enough perspective to declare you an innocent, although - quite frankly - based on what you have said - I cannot imagine you have any basis to feel culpable for anything.

What I can do is compare our journeys - they reveal the only truths I feel qualified to tell.

Our situations were similar in that we had co-victims. But I look at how much more you had to deal with and how much better you handled it. Unlike you, no one used physical force or threats of bodily harm with me. I wasn't made to have sex with my co-victims - nor did I. Your perps (and when I say perps - I'm talking about the movie guys, not sfather) threatened your life and used electric torture devices. All my perp did was whine that he wasn't getting any. Your perps used you for all you were worth, promising some financial renumeration which never materialized. My perp promised MY asking price - to leave my little sister alone if I acquiesced - and I didn't get "paid" either. So why is that important? Well - because we both knew our abusers were complete creeps. How did we handle it? When your perps skipped town, that was it. You didn't go after your little co-victims. Compare, my friend - when my sister was finally out of the danger zone, I kept going back to please her abuser. I mean really - how sick is that?

These are the dirty little secrets we never get over. I have no allusions about ever reconciling my lost integrity. Maybe some of us were just little shits and as much as we try not to be shits as grown-ups, we are who we are. I should have known better - I wasn't a stupid kid. I suspect you are wrestling with similar dynamics, maybe afraid to see little Jeff because then you'd have to ask him the hard questions. Or maybe by acknowledging that "little shit" as truly you, then you dilute your integrity, as if it were easier to just pretend he was someone else. I think of that when I hear these lyrics (Hurt):

I wear my crown of thorns
on my liar's chair
full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
beneath the stain of time
the feeling disappears
you are someone else
I am still right here

I don't know - maybe I'll get pilloried for posting this, but if everything has to be diluted down to pleasant platitudes and Pollyanna, then I don't belong here anyways. Maybe - just maybe - we're not supposed to feel good about this. Maybe there aren't any answers that will make us feel better. Maybe that's just the way it's supposed to be with us. And maybe that's what it means to be a responsible adult - to bear those responsibilities and carry on like good soldiers.

We all drag our crosses through life. But it is plain to see that you have carried yours a lot better than I ever would have in similar straits. And years later you are surrounded by family and grandchildren - a true legacy because each child is a new promise you brought into the world. In that sense, you have probably "carried on" finer than most of us. You are a better man than I, Jeff.
_________________________



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#418448 - 12/07/12 04:45 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
SoccerStar Offline
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Jeff,

VERY brief response to your post, deserving a longer follow-up later:

Shawn Hornbeck did not go to the police, did not help Ownby escape. He guarded him as ordered. Both boys were rescued because when Ownby was kidnapped another boy was literally right next to him - a point blank range eyewitness - who happened to have a Rain Man level interest in cars and memorized all details of the vehicle and had told the cops everything within about 2 hours of the crime.

It still took them 4 days to track the guy down, during which time he fucked Ownby 17 times.

You might be thinking of Steven Stainer, who was kidnapped and enslaved from 7-14 and when his perp kidnapped a 5-year-old THEN he helped that kid escape to the cops. But that was so long ago (early '70s I think?) that the cops wouldn't even prosecute the perp for raping him because at that time it was thought to be too much of a stain on the boy to ever be said out loud.

Anyway.


Edited by SoccerStar (12/07/12 04:46 PM)
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#418450 - 12/07/12 05:27 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418452 - 12/07/12 05:57 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Eric, how do you know I handled it well????

I suppose I made an unwarranted assumption - but you did become a productive member of society and raised a family, the basic tenets of functionality. I guess I made a leap of logic from there that when someone is functional in the face of adversity, they "handled it well." Of course that is not the same as saying they "felt good about it." I guess I'm a bit envious of that ever-elusive "family man" with two and a half kids, a dog and a picket fence that I wanted myself. It never happened for me and i'm probably operating under my own weird delusions that if I could have sired a family it would have made everything perfect. You did and I'm just sort of awed by that.

Quote:
Maybe you kept at it because of the same reason you did it for your sister and her friends. Maybe you were afraid that some other girls would get it if not for you intervening.

Once the girls were saved, I was still his to lay. I don't know a whole lot of terms for that. Slut comes to mind.

Quote:
I was a hustler and I never left. I was tortured and I never left, I was photographed and never left. It seemed like everyone was after my ass. Sfather, my gym teacher, the movie people and the photographers. I never said no to any of it. I was a great example of a real shitty kid. I never left any of them. That's what's sick.

Well I don't think a little kid could say "no" or leave with "everyone after" him like that. When you could, you did. I didn't. Hey - we were both prostitutes with our own "prices". Then we changed. I got lost in a selfish, self-absorbed mission to find myself, re-enacting, trying to get it right. But you put away that childish nonsense and became a man. You saw your responsibilities. Sometimes that's the best we can do. What you accomplished required unselfish devotion. I salute you - and wish I had that kind of discipline. You are a better man than most, Jeff - and I wish you peace in your mission to be whole with little Jeff.
_________________________



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#418455 - 12/07/12 06:20 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 01:16 PM)

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#418460 - 12/07/12 07:19 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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#418898 - 12/12/12 08:45 AM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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over

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#418933 - 12/12/12 02:59 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Just my very nonprofessional opinion, but I suspect a lot of this will all fall into place as soon as you decide to forgive little Jeff. Calling him a "shitty kid" is not a great way to show the respect needed to establish that relationship with him - with yourself. He wasn't so much shitty as he was just a kid lost in an adult's twisted world, being tortured, having his buttons pushed and being manipulated into owning the guilt. Come on big Jeff - give the kid a break. wink
_________________________



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#418956 - 12/12/12 06:31 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Online   confused
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Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3379
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Jeff

Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Sounds fucked up but I really don't know what to do with him. I can't blame him for being a prostitute because I would still be blaming myself. So I what did I gain besides meeting that shitty little kid that I've been hiding for 40+ years?


it's not about blame.
it's not about excuses.
it's about acceptance.
and compassion.
unconditional.
based on the truth.
embrace him.
that's all he wants.
safe hugs.
and what you need too.
and what you gain is another step toward wholeness.
still hurting - but not so lonely.

lee
(i am trying to do the same with my younger self.
sometimes it is hard.)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#418979 - 12/12/12 11:18 PM Re: Who is this little Jeff inside me? [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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