I'm gonna back up Magellan by sidestepping a bit to make some language distinctions and how important they are.

I have a problem with absolutes, i.e., "lust is a sin". I have no problem, however, with someone saying, "I BELIEVE lust is a sin." I can respect that because the person has the personal conviction to express it in the first person.

But something expressed as an unqualified absolute (homosexuality is a sin, jacking off is a sin, etc.) begs the question - and a total mindfuck setup if there ever was one - according to WHOM? You? YOUR God? Well, that's nice, but some of us don't believe in Your God.

If you can parse the distinction, I'm pointing out the importance of language, particularly in this forum.

Nope, read it again. I said "I grew up a fundamentalist Christian". I singled MYSELF out.

In the thread title: "religious". My gripe is with ALL religions. I have personal experience with one of them, and thus, can speak from that experience. My personal experience.

If you choose to see it as singling YOU out, then be my guest. My words simply aren't there to support your conclusion.

D

Thank you for stating my point more eloquently than I did, Lancer.

Got your back, bro. {{{{{{{{{Magellan}}}}}}}}}} I'm sometimes a pretty good diplomat...and modest too. ;-)

I don't believe I ever said you were singling "ME" out.

But regardless you quoted the Bible and stated it to be a basic tenent of religion... which certainly it is a part of religious teaching but the only one I'm aware of is Christianity.

If you meant ALL religions, then quoting from only ONE of them certainly doesn't help your case. It only makes it appear that you intended one in particular while talking about the many. Specifically the one attached to the individual who is at the root of the original post that sparked the whole thing.

That being said, I believe what I'm saying in that paragraph above is in 100% agreement with Lancer where he says, "I'm pointing out the importance of language,". The words we use are important.

I always personally try to qualify my words by stating "I believe" or "The Bible teaches", especially when talking about topics such as the current situation. I agree 100% with Lancer, the way we state things can surely color the statement in a way that may or may not be intended. I also agree that just because I believe a certain way, and believe it to be the way it is, doesn't mean I can thus expect everyone to think and feel the same way. I certainly know that not everyone believes in God. I've said quite a few times and in quite a few different settings that I have more people I call friend who are gay and/or atheist than who are Christians simply because (and this certainly can be found in ALL religions) many I have met are judgmental and hateful. But then I've met plenty of gay/atheist who are just as hateful as well.

I'm not going to speak on specific beliefs of religions I have no experience with. That would be arrogant.

I speak from my personal experience, which is Christianity.

One last time - I hope this is clear - my beef is with ALL RELIGIONS. PERIOD. I stated examples by stating my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with one of them. To try otherwise would be presumptuous and outside of my realm of experience.

And thanks for your thoughtful last paragraph. We're in TOTAL AGREEMENT there.

D

Lancer I am sorry but I read the bible and it says to lust is just the same as doing it. I am a follower of God and no specific religion. So if I read in the bible that lust is sin then to me it is. Whatever the bible say is my opinion

2 Timothy 2:22 refers to lust and there are several more

Thank you for the post, Scott, and demonstrating that, yeah, personal responsibility actively works in your faith. I like your balanced approach a lot.

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