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#413032 - 10/13/12 09:37 PM too much too soon
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
last night - CRASH & BURN - with the wife!
this morning - Trying to pick up the shards - trying to put something back together - and not wound each other more...
it's complicated - both with good intentions - both feeling both guilty and victimized.
does it ever end????????????????????????
lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#413077 - 10/14/12 11:00 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
Blue1966 Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 83
Loc: USA
Sorry Lee,

Hugs, cuddles and lots of talking make great glue when that happens.

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#413081 - 10/14/12 12:16 PM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Hang in there, brother. It does not end, but neither does our love for each other.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#413122 - 10/14/12 09:53 PM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Lee,
Sorry for all of this brother. Let me return a favor that you did for me. I will lift both of y'all up to the One that will help. Hang in there
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#413136 - 10/15/12 01:01 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Thanks for the encouragement, Blue, cant & Country.

Here is what happened: my wife and I went for an overnight at the beach. It is really cheap here by US standards. we had a nice 2nd floor room with a balcony & view of the ocean, beautiful pool, nice secluded beach, fresh seafood and tropical fruits... Paradise! Room service, candle-lit dinner on the balcony. She brought a silky lingerie that I’d never seen. So we managed to make love and I navigated around or over or through all the triggers and I was feeling super good about it.

And then we go home and she surprises me that evening by setting up a romantic atmosphere in the bedroom and seducing me while we are watching TV. Sounds like every man’s fantasy – right? Well, I couldn’t handle it. There was trigger after trigger, starting with the fact that she sprang it on me so I felt like I was ambushed. And with her being the initiator, it felt too aggressive and like I was being manipulated or controlled. And some of the foreplay tactics that she used to arouse me were a little too similar to some of the things that were done to me as a child. (later when I journalled about it for my T I counted 10 different triggers.) And though I didn’t have any trouble at all in getting it up and keeping it up and coming to a crashingly spectacular climax – it was beset with unwanted memories and images and stuff that I didn’t want to have there. It was sort of an emotional as well as a physiological eruption by the end.

She could tell that there was something wrong. I tried to pass it off as post-coital paralysis and stupor – but she knew there was more to it. She was upset with me for – I dunno – maybe dragging my baggage into bed with her? She was sad that her nice surprise hadn’t gone according to her expectations. She was mad that I hadn’t expressed more appreciation for the real and emotional effort she had expended to make this happen. She had really taken a chance emotionally – risked being/feeling rejected again… and somehow I didn’t live up to the dream. But I didn’t have the script and wasn’t able to do any prep!

So next morning I try to comfort her and I am still teetering on the brink of a major panic attack. She said she had never seen me so distraught. I was feeling like an abject and absolute loser! How lame is that – to get so freaked out over something that most men would give anything for?

I spent the entire next day Sunday writing, reading and thinking and trying to get back some semblance of composure so I’d be ready for school on Monday morning. Now I am still reeling and am afraid that we have set back our recovery by several months – if we ever are able to make up for the damage.

It was a simple matter of too much too soon. She asked me if it was her fault. I couldn’t tell her how she had set off trigger after trigger. That would have devastated her. I said that it was the fault of probably a dozen other people who got to me before we even met. But I know we will have to talk about this – and it is killing me. How much to say? I don’t want her to be afraid to do everything. But I need to feel safe. And right now I feel anything but…

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#413138 - 10/15/12 01:15 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
Blue1966 Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 83
Loc: USA
As hard as it will be, the best thing to do is be honest, gentle but honest. Make it clear that although she triggered you, it is NOT her fault that you have those triggers nor is it her fault that she did not know your triggers. How could she, you didn't tell her what they are?

You might want to suggest a safe word system, yellow for slow down but do keep going, orange for stop, but stay close and, red for stop, back off. That way impromptu things won't be so threatening or scary, you can take control if you need to and, she can learn what's difficult for you without it getting this upsetting again.

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#413142 - 10/15/12 01:52 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: Blue1966]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: Blue1966
As hard as it will be, the best thing to do is be honest, gentle but honest. Make it clear that although she triggered you, it is NOT her fault that you have those triggers nor is it her fault that she did not know your triggers. How could she, you didn't tell her what they are?

You might want to suggest a safe word system, yellow for slow down but do keep going, orange for stop, but stay close and, red for stop, back off. That way impromptu things won't be so threatening or scary, you can take control if you need to and, she can learn what's difficult for you without it getting this upsetting again.

Good advice.

I believe that the only reason why I could make my relationship with my late wife work, was because I was completely honest with her. She knew what my triggers were, and if she accidentally did or said something that triggered me, I would let her know immediately. That way things don't escalate out of control. You don't have to deal with fighting through the triggers on your own, and she understands where you are, which helps her not to feel confused or rejected or... Win - win.

Its very difficult to reach that point, It takes a huge amount of trust, especially if, like me, you are afraid of intimacy. But at the same time if helped me a lot, not only because I didn't have keep everything bottled up inside, but also because the only thing I fear more than intimacy is loneliness, and thus a happy marriage meant the world to me.

I am now in a new relationship, which has recently reached the point where I have to choose between either being completely honest with her, the way I was with my late wife, and deal with all the fear and panic that comes with allowing someone to get that close, or walk away. Because at the moment I am just hurting her with mixed messages and she deserves better than that...
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#413165 - 10/15/12 10:03 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
iambubba Offline


Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 31
Loc: Canada
I can relate completely and it totally sucks to feel that way.
As far as some advice ...I dunno sometimes the honesty works but sometimes I feel it can create a feeling of walking on eggshells\elephant in the room the next time I'm intimate and then for me the negative self talk takes over and I spend the rest of the time working on staying present.
The staying present is getting easier. I noticed a few months back that i was dissasociating during different intimate acts by dropping my head and almost drifting off I now am aware catch myself and try hard to snap back to reality.
I guess all that being said I didn't offer much other than Yeah I've been there...feel for ya.
bub

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#413174 - 10/15/12 11:23 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Lee

I feel for you both man. Its a case of shes not feeling sexy or seductive. I can so see it from her point of view and yours. Sad thing is that she probably blames herself for this, and on the flip side you blame yourself, Tough catch 22 for you both.

Sex was and still is for us such a difficult thing, we both dance around it and try to make each other happy, but just end up hurting each other,
I wish I had an answer for you, one thing that always helps is flowers, send a few or pick a few with a little note telling her that she is the most precious one in the world to you.

A friend of mine has been married and happy for 45 years, I asked him for his secret and he said "a walk every night just the two off you holding hands and chatting, no distractions"

I found little love notes to be a great help, " wow darling you look stunning today" and hide them around the house, under the pillow, in her car, in her lunch box etc.

If you find the answer to healing our cocked up sex life, please let me know.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#413175 - 10/15/12 11:36 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
thanks, Martin.

i already leave daily notes. and flowers are a part of my routine. i have done all kinds of services to make her feel loved - from gifts to kitchen cleaning. and we talk a lot. walks aren't really an option where we live. i even let her have the remote pretty often!

but you are right - her self-image is not the greatest. and my withdrawal, isolation and acting out with p*rn through the years has made it worse - feelings of inadequacy, rejection and betrayal, etc. so we have lots of lost ground to recover...

we are both trying really hard. this time it was just a little too hard!

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#413177 - 10/15/12 11:46 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Blue - right - i will need to stress that it was not her fault. and i like the neutral word signal idea. maybe that would work.

Gecko - yep, i think honesty is good - the big question is how much? i don't want to start triggering her with too much information. but also don't want to let her imagination run wild. and the immediate communication is probly gonna help. i let too much pile up until it was overwhelming.

bub - yeah - keeping present - a challenge. it sometimes feels like i'm juggling too many balls. keeping focused and present and takin care of business all at the same time. it takes concentration and practice. and it will definitely be a big challenge "next time" with that elephant of what happened before in bed with us.

really appreciate the support and suggestions - all of you!
Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#413906 - 10/22/12 03:20 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Stupid idiot!
Clueless moron!!
Inept loser!!!
Hopeless failure!!!!
I was kicking myself – beating myself up – punishing myself for misreading or missing all the messages.

It started mid-afternoon Saturday when we had been in a long, none-too-exciting meeting where I had yawned a lot. There was still work to be done and the day was not over. My wife said she was thinking “nap” and asked if I wanted a nap, too. I said no – she knows I have a hard time unwinding enough to sleep in the middle of the day. I never nap unless I am sick. So we both got busy and went home later.

That evening she told me that with the “nap” question, she had been trying to give me a hint – that she was willing and available if I wanted to… Dense blockhead that I am, I didn’t get it. She felt bad – not exactly rejected – but disappointed – and once again – true to form – I had blown it royally! In between banging my head against the wall, I mumbled something about maybe it was too subtle. And then she ripostes with – “I can’t be too aggressive – and I can’t be too subtle – what is left?” Good point.

We talked. I read some journal entries to her – including this thread. a few tears on each side. we sat on the couch with arms around each other and just tried to relax and trust each other again. She explained that what she wanted was merely to lie together, skin-to-skin - not s*x – just being together. I asked if she was still interested – or wanted to wait till another time. She said she’d try. So we did.

We started out doing only what she wanted, but didn’t stop there… by mutual decision. It was a good follow-up to and repair of the disaster the last time.

We had talked about that catastrophe with our T and wife had said that she was feeling like I always had to be in total control. I said that I loved the idea of her being the initiator and I didn’t want all the control – that was too much responsibility – and made me feel abusive. But I didn’t want to feel controlled either. T said what I might be fearing was having NO control. I said – yes – a better solution would be sharing the control/power/decisions. We also discussed the idea of using neutral code words – like Blue suggested: yellow, orange, red. And thankfully she was OK with not knowing specifics of the triggers - being spared the gory details. T and i thought that it would not be helpful and she agreed.

So that is what we did. Started slow and with the color coding and kept communicating. It worked. No triggers – or minimal and manageable ones only. i stayed present. There were some of the same types of touch as the last time when I freaked out afterwards – but this time it was OK… we both were very relieved afterwards.

I am very thankful that she was willing to give us another chance. at first she was so upset by the last disaster that she was ready to quit. T told her that when you put too much sugar in a cup of coffee you don’t swear never to drink coffee ever again. You just dump it down the sink, pour a fresh cup and try again. Now we have a couple new code words/phrases: “nap” and “too much sugar” – and we added another step to the color code – “GREEN!”

Lee


Edited by traveler (10/22/12 03:23 AM)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#413929 - 10/22/12 09:01 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Wow Lee. One of the most moving, positive posts I've read in a long time. Thank you.

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#413933 - 10/22/12 09:21 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Lee,

There is nothing wrong with your wife treating you as a sex object once and awhile and vice-versa. Fight through it, man. Face your fear head-on. Enjoy her treating you as a sex object last night. It means she loves you and you turn her on or she wouldn't have went through all that trouble. Just tell her, "hey, I'm sorry, you caught me by surprise and I didn't know how to act. Let's try again." That trigger shit ain't brought up and she'll feel better. Tell her, hey, let's do it tonight or later this week, or surprise her.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#413974 - 10/22/12 04:37 PM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
First of all, I would like to thank Lee/Traveler for starting this thread and all of those that have made contribution posts.

I am not married-yet, as I hope to someday be and have a warm and loving family!!!!!

However I am in my 1st LTR. serious relationship with this wonderful women and I was struggling/agonizing about telling her about my past: what to say, how much to say, how much detail, and especially the exaggerated startle responses I have when she sneak up behind me and/or touches me from behind on my back especially the soft,light touch, which I know she means as a sign of endearment, but I hate it! It makes me jump and my skin crawl.

I wanted to just let you guys know that this has been extremely educational for me.

I have debated this topic with my T, and he says that I don't have to go into detail, so recently I told her a little bit-just a short synopsis or over view of my past in which she (very shocking to me) took surprisingly Well. She wanted to know more but I was really scared of scaring her.

I really like the Idea of the color coding messaging system, especially when we are intimate and VERY much so afterwards when she wants to cuddle......

in the past I have just faked that I liked it all of the time, but she could usually tell something was wrong, and I think it made her feel bad or even guilty and I just didn't know what to do.

i very much want to be closer with her, but sometimes it is mind-bogglingly difficult for me, I will first discuss the Idea with my T and maybe how to bring up the topic and how to phrase it and when to do so---Great idea, BTW.

Thanks again,
Logan
_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#414007 - 10/22/12 11:11 PM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Lancer, Phoenix, & Logan - thanks for the replies.

if something i said can help a little - so much the better .
that is a really big bonus for me.
and what we are here for - right?

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#416055 - 11/12/12 04:15 PM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
youthfulheart62 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 93
Loc: New Jersey(exit3)
Logan,
please give me a call, if you need my #, I think you have to clear your private message box

Julian

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#416056 - 11/12/12 04:24 PM Re: too much too soon [Re: traveler]
youthfulheart62 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 93
Loc: New Jersey(exit3)
My wife left the day before yesterday, long story, but I am committed, we both are. She thinks it it my pride, she has alway thought that... To me it not pride but protecting and preservation. She does understand, that by walking by me and pinching my ass, it fuck me up and I get pissed off.... I hope this helps and you u=nderstand.


Julian

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#416090 - 11/13/12 01:05 AM Re: too much too soon [Re: Logan]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
Logan,
It is great to hear that you have a long term relationship with a wonderful women. I really am happy for you. If your T is the one that I know that you have been seeing in Jersey then you are in good hands and I know he will guide you thru this.

Jason
_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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