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#412488 - 10/08/12 12:27 PM taking jabs
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 246
Loc: us
So our last therapy session H was in a really negative place. Saying he was tired or trying and that I need to be the one who goes alone to see her because I'm really the one with issues etc. By the end of the session the T got he to admit that he has a wall up and that he feels like I don't really see the person behind the wall. He said he didn't want to turn and tell me that because he felt like I would just give him a fake happy response. I told him that I'm so glad that he wants me to see that person and that I feel sad that he thinks I would give him a fake response. I held his hand and he softened for a min and said he would try to help more. When I asked him what he meant by that he shut back down and said he guessed we would just see if things changed over the next week. Kind of like well see if you really mean that wife. So when it comes to him this week I have been trying to be softer and sweeter. He has softened up some too but his drinking has been worse this week and he swings between being more like his old self and taking little jabs at me. I'm feel that I'm being one cool cat I still call him on his shit but am being less harsh about it and not taking it personally. So I don't understand the jabs and the increase in drinking. Its like he is trying to undermine mine efforts to ease the tension at home. Jesus this is all so stupid I wish he would just admit talk about his abuse in therapy all ready and quit jumping from excuse to excuse as to why life is so hard. Is it common for survivors to treat their wives like emotional pack mules and then act annoyed when their wives are nice and don't take their crap personally anymore? The hot and cold behavior is more annoying than anything else WTF?
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#412502 - 10/08/12 05:20 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
Jwmcd2 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 62
If I'm reading between the lines well right now, he's got something that's come to his mind that's troubling him and he's sort of pushing you away to get some space-- he might need a couple sessions alone with his therapist.

While I can't say for sure and obviously the best answers would come from your husband, the fact you see him drinking more and making jabs towards you tends to speak out that he's wanting to wall up.

While I'm not really someone that should give out lots of relationship advice as I'm still pretty young/inexperienced, I think that it's best to try and connect with some good friends and talk with them a bit and give him some wiggle room, but remind him that you're there for him and that you still love him should he need to talk to you. A lot of times, guys just have trouble saying they need room in a blatant way.

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#412508 - 10/08/12 05:57 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
Blue1966 Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 83
Loc: USA
It sounds like a real internal fight going on. He want's to let that wall down but, doing it is going to hurt, he is going to need to take more than give in you relationship when he does, for a while. It doesn't sound like your relationship is in a good place for that to happen. So, he's escaping the only way he knows how to escape - in a bottle and by pushing you away.

I would guess that much of that is almost instinctive and not something he plans, he just does it because he doesn't have a better way to deal with what he's feeling.

One on one with his T, and getting your relationship more secure for him will help, I think.

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#412541 - 10/09/12 12:56 AM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
RunningOnEmpty Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
HD001-
You are doing a real good job of working on your part in the marriage dispute H's jabs and avoidance of his painful trauma. He may be trying to push you away and you responding less harsh and softer is making it so his usual way of responding doesn't match up. When one of us changes, the other one almost has to change because the "dance we do" as a couple now has different steps.
Stay strong. Keep working on you and how you respond- you are a part of his healing.

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#412617 - 10/09/12 03:13 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Common hell yeah HD, You know that this is of course all your fault!!!.
I tease, but this is the mind of a survivor, well he ain't a survivor yet, he is still the victim.
Have you ever tried to get him to read other survivors stories or watch the Oprah 200 men show? There is also a movie out about survivors that perhaps you could purchase.
You see for me, people, Namely my wife, tried to tell me that this CSA thing had a huge impact on my life, but of course I didnt believe her.
It was only the testimonies of other men that got me to understanding exactly how this had impacted on my life. (Just a thought)

Please do the Co-Dependence book for yourself, it will help you immeasurably. I read a lot of Co-dependent type behavior in your post, and this sort of behavior will only enable him, not get him well.

Heal well
Martin
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Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#412632 - 10/09/12 05:32 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 246
Loc: us
Thank you for the responses. Whome I would like your help in identifying what co pendendancy traits you are seeing. And is there a book you recommend? I have been online researching it on several websites and while I can pick out a couple things I do from time to time. I'm not seeing much. I'm totally open to self improvement right now. I guess with the whole changing my approach towards H thing it is because this relationship is my first since my own csa therapy. Before therapy I was really mean and controlling of others and now I am working on finding the balance between doormat and brick wall if that makes sense. My mother said I used to be like a steam roller and I don't want to be that way. I call H out last night I told him that I'm doing all I can to help myself and see my own weaknesses and that he needs to pull his head out and help himself. I told him I don't trust him right now and that he is emotionally abusive and manipulative and that this won't change until he decides to heal. I wasn't cruel but I did say a lot of stuff that would be hard to hear. I've just had it with him blaming me and told him that it is bullshit is problems are not my fault. And when I got done I felt a lot better even though he just sat there with his jaw tight and his lip quivering. The last thing I told him is that him believing he is worthless isn't helping anything and to just try to accept that he is loved by many people. He didn't say much but did say maybe it was time for him to see the T on his own. THANK GOD but back to me what can I do about myself? The last thing I want to be is co dependant.
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#412652 - 10/09/12 09:39 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
I don't think that drinking is indicative of someone who has entered into recovery. Sorry, but I lived through hell and it looked a lot like what you are describing. If he is numbing himself with alcohol, he simply is not yet showing up.

Thinking you can change your behavior to create a change in his is codependency defined. You can change your behavior to create a life you love and are proud of. You can change your behavior to set limits and boundaries of what types of behavior you will accept and support. You cannot NICE your way through this however. You cannot change yourself into something that will elicit the behavior from him that you want (that is a type of control).

Codependency No More is a great book. And she talks about this whole CONTROLLING thing. We think we are not codependent because we see our "controlling" nature as assertiveness. We are therefore independent not codependent, right? This is a fallacy. We have no control over anyone and until we realize this, we tie ourselves dramatically to the outcome of someone else's life. And, as whome says, we become enablers. (Go to an Al-Anon meeting if you want to have this concept batted home)

One other thing - in my therapy, we are working on compassion. In my codependency, I thought that being accomodating to other people was synonymous with compassion - I didn't want to let them down, I didn't want to fail them, or hurt them. THIS IS NOT COMPASSION. Compassion starts with ourselves. And compassion toward other people is a mixture of honesty, boundary enforcement and the communication of expectations. I saw a joke the other day on facebook that was a child crying to his mother: "Why won't you do my laundry???" To which the mother replies "Out of compassion" - I thought it was interesting. I can do your laundry, but because I have compassion for you, I will not. You will. You will find the solution yourself. You will steer your own ship. Hand your husband back the reins of his life - and take up your own. You will see dramatic change in your quality of life, I promise wink

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#412653 - 10/09/12 10:06 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Drinking can only hold a survivor back. I know for a fact. U can't drink enough to hide the past. You can only numb it a little
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#412699 - 10/10/12 01:47 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 246
Loc: us
So I'm trying to see all sides here. I spent a long time last night reading about co dependancy and even took a bunch a quizes(not that I'm claiming that means much) and none of them gave me identified me a co dependant. I am going to ask my T about it tomorrow because maybe I have some co dependant behaviors that I'm not reconizing. As far a the drinking I know it is destructive but I self medicated a lot when I began my csa therapy. As I progressed I slowly gave up destructive coping mechanisms for healthy ones. I personally was not strong enough to give everything up at once and just relay on healthy habits. Yes I will agree the H is yet to dig in fully and attack this head on but I am seeing slow behavior changes and a williness to go to therapy that was non existant a couple years ago. I look forward to the day that he does attack his healing 100% and copes without drinking because he won't get better until he does.
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Everything comes from within

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#412722 - 10/10/12 07:11 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
HD - read Copendency No More. I have posted here before that it took me several false starts and over a year to read it and get it. I was like, nope, this ain't me.

Your note about being an emotional pack mule is what sticks out for me. You can only be someone's pack mule is you accept the job.

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#412750 - 10/11/12 02:08 AM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi HD
A couple of things. Esposa put it so well and she got the book right.
You cannot live with a survivor for so long and not become Co-Dependent. There is nothing wrong with being a CD, and there is no shame in being CD. I read things like "So I sat and held his hand to soften him," and think there we go.
If you are adjusting your normal behavior in any way to please him, avoid him, prevent him from doing something, or make him happy. If you are letting go of your dreams and future to care for him and his bad behavior, well those are all CD behaviors. Remember that there is no shame in being CD, it is a wa=y for your mind to cope with the pain.

As for the H. You cannot heal from CSA if you are using and drinking. So if H is drinking he is doing it to avoid the feelings that are surfacing. Alcohol kills feelings and emotions, and in order to heal from this we survivors need to feel.
Love yourself through this, and don't compare your recovery to his, there is unfortunately a huge difference. And don't forget that you are a survivor now too.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#412802 - 10/11/12 02:25 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 246
Loc: us
Thanks your post made me cry. It really clicked with me. Esposa thanks for the explanation and book. I've been thinking a lot latley about why it is so hard to face the truth about ourselves sometimes. It's really silly because refusing to see only holds us back. It's been a really emotional week for me but I have been gaining a lot of insight into myself. I think I still haven't fully forgiven myself for being such a nasty bully for so long and hurting my family. I'm learning that sometimes the hardest person to forgive is yourself. I think in the past I had put up with H's behavior because I felt like it was my karma for how I treated others for so long. I realize how unhealthy this kind of thinking is and I'm looking forward to changing it.
Thanks again
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Everything comes from within

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#412839 - 10/11/12 07:24 PM Re: taking jabs [Re: HD001]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
Oh HD, I was so there. Suffering as a karmic debt wink

Some people operate from a place of guilt and some from a place of shame. Most often, opposites attract for obvious reasons. Those of us willing to carry the guilt, often become very codependent to people who are running from their shame. It is a dance.

If you extract yourself, release some of your guilt, find and connect to your essence, your needs, your dreams - you will be a happier person. And...(This one is hard to hear)... he will either learn the new dance or he will go. And if he goes, it will no longer matter to you.

I remember the first time someone said that to me - around the same time I couldn't bring myself to connect to the book - I almost had a nervous breakdown. I think I cried for days. He will go???? What? I have to stop that. I have to do everything in my power to keep that from happening. This was all my flawed thinking.

I love my husband very much. But I love me more. I will not enable or even bear witness to destructive behavior anymore. I no longer feel guilty for things I have done. They were part of my journey, necessary pieces that made today possible.

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