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#412465 - 10/08/12 03:40 AM NO condemnation!
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3420
Loc: somewhere in Africa
"There is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1

(i constantly fight against a feeling of self-condemnation - and the suspicion that others are condemning me as well. this speaks to that situation.the whole chapter is good - but i'll cut to the chase.)

"31 In view of all this, what can we say? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Certainly not God, who did not even keep back his own Son, but offered him for us all! He gave us his Son—will he not also freely give us all things? 33 Who will accuse God's chosen people? God himself declares them not guilty! 34 Who, then, will condemn them? Not Christ Jesus, who died, or rather, who was raised to life and is at the right side of God, pleading with him for us! 35 Who, then, can separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble do it, or hardship or persecution or hunger or poverty or danger or death? 36 As the scripture says,

“For your sake we are in danger of death at all times;
we are treated like sheep that are going to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved us! 38 For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the future, 39 neither the world above nor the world below—there is nothing in all creation that will ever be able to separate us from the love of God which is ours through Christ Jesus our Lord."

(OK - so why do i still feel condemned and un-loved? i think it is my own focus on myself and an assumption that my problems are greater than God's grace - pretty silly when stated like that. so - nothing outside myself can separate me from God's love and acceptance - but i can do it myself. learning to love, forgive and accept myself is intricately intertwined with learning to love, forgive and accept God. i can't do one without the other.)

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#412486 - 10/08/12 12:22 PM Re: NO condemnation! [Re: traveler]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 423
Loc: USA
One thing that helped me was in knowing that God already knows everything. Since he has forgiven me I can forgive myself and my abusers too. I am no longer held by the chains of guilt, shame and fear put on me by the evil one, and am now learning to see myself as God sees me. He defines me, always has, and I no longer believe the lies that "they" defined me.
_________________________
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#412494 - 10/08/12 01:49 PM Re: NO condemnation! [Re: traveler]
Undefeated Offline


Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 175
Loc: Colorado, USA
Lee,

Most of the time, I am in the same boat as you, doubt/unbelief. Our tendency is to base our faith on feelings, rather than the facts of God's word. When we don't feel forgiven, then we tend to say to ourselves, "I don't feel like God has forgiven me, because what I have done is so awful." There is a good book I'd recommend, and the very first chapter is on Biblical faith. It can be read online here:
Princliples of Spiritual Growth by Miles J. Stanford
The whole book is excellent, but if you read nothing else, devour the first chapter, "FAITH."

Alan
_________________________
"The sexual abuse and exploitation of children is one of the most vicious crimes conceivable, a violation of mankind's most basic duty to protect the innocent." ~James T. Walsh

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#412495 - 10/08/12 01:50 PM Re: NO condemnation! [Re: BuffaloCO]
Undefeated Offline


Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 175
Loc: Colorado, USA
Originally Posted By: BuffaloCO
One thing that helped me was in knowing that God already knows everything. Since he has forgiven me I can forgive myself and my abusers too. I am no longer held by the chains of guilt, shame and fear put on me by the evil one, and am now learning to see myself as God sees me. He defines me, always has, and I no longer believe the lies that "they" defined me.

I agree! Excellent post BuffaloCo.
_________________________
"The sexual abuse and exploitation of children is one of the most vicious crimes conceivable, a violation of mankind's most basic duty to protect the innocent." ~James T. Walsh

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#412499 - 10/08/12 04:21 PM Re: NO condemnation! [Re: traveler]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6872
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: traveler
"There is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1

(i constantly fight against a feeling of self-condemnation - and the suspicion that others are condemning me as well. this speaks to that situation.the whole chapter is good - but i'll cut to the chase.)

"31 In view of all this, what can we say? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Certainly not God, who did not even keep back his own Son, but offered him for us all! He gave us his Son—will he not also freely give us all things? 33 Who will accuse God's chosen people? God himself declares them not guilty! 34 Who, then, will condemn them? Not Christ Jesus, who died, or rather, who was raised to life and is at the right side of God, pleading with him for us! 35 Who, then, can separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble do it, or hardship or persecution or hunger or poverty or danger or death? 36 As the scripture says,

“For your sake we are in danger of death at all times;
we are treated like sheep that are going to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved us! 38 For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the future, 39 neither the world above nor the world below—there is nothing in all creation that will ever be able to separate us from the love of God which is ours through Christ Jesus our Lord."

(OK - so why do i still feel condemned and un-loved? i think it is my own focus on myself and an assumption that my problems are greater than God's grace - pretty silly when stated like that. so - nothing outside myself can separate me from God's love and acceptance - but i can do it myself. learning to love, forgive and accept myself is intricately intertwined with learning to love, forgive and accept God. i can't do one without the other.)

Lee


This is good.

I memorized Romans 8 when I was in my 20's. It has really helped me. Then when the memories of abuse came up 20 or so years later, they blew me away. I wasn't able to assimilate the duality of undergoing horrible evil as a child with the truths in this passage. When the memories came up they were terribly palpable. It has taken years to gradually see how Romans 8 could pertain to what I went through.

There were several thoughts that really helped me. I had memories of being stretched out, tied up, and abused. Then it hit me that that's what happened to Christ on the cross. I had been treated as He was treated. On the cross he was stretched out and nailed and killed. This thought really helped me, even on emotional, feeling level. I was "identified" with his suffering.

Other passages helped. Joseph the Patriarch was rejected by his brothers. He was thrown down into a pit and then sold into slavery. We are told that his ankles and neck were hurt by irons. He must have felt terrible rejection and abandonment and emotional pain. Even though he was wonderfully talented, he experienced terrible reversals in his life. The most amazing part is when his brothers were brought in before him and bowed low before him. They didn't know that it fulfilled the dream he had when he was 17. He was filled with emotion and had to leave the room so as to not cry openly. This teaches me that God allows tragedy and rejection to occur. In Joseph's case it brought about saving his brothers and their progeny, and started a whole new direction for their lives. I had also received rejection from peers and was forced to do things to them. Then I had been sold into sinful passions by what was done to me.

I still have trouble seeing some of these truths consistently on the emotional level. I tend to wander in doubt a lot of the time.

Puffer


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