Jeff,

You raise one hell of a point, why should a survivor believe God cared when he didn't intervene on their behalf.

The same concern is shared by Widows of Cancer patients, Children of men killed by war, many other horrible things. I don't pretend to know what motivates a God who is accorded as omnipotent and omniscient. I can say that listening to a Bishop preach one Easter Sunday I heard that if a wife of a man stricken with a fatal illness is praying for his life, that eventually she will stop praying for her will (his life to be spared) and begin by surrendering to God's will (pray for his salvation - Thy will be done). I don't have the answers to the same questions that have plagued Eccleisiastical Teachers, Monks, Priests, Bishops, and Seminary Schools of thought since time immemorial, but I do know that to assume (as I once did) that God doesn't exist because I was not spared from rape, prostitution and sexual abuse did not solve the answer for me.

It could be that our souls (which are said to be everlasting) do not bear the stain of our abuse, nor the pain of our abuse, nor the loss that our physical forms bear. If that is true, what long term effect would our abuse have in our afterlife? If our souls are not marked, then why would God intervene to save us when all we stand to gain is understanding in the long run? All of these questions are difficult to see, ask, and even more so to answer.

Assign not to God what he "should" have done and argue his existence thusly, assign to God the strength we grow from survival, and know that we are his special creations that prove to be an instrument for teaching.

Anyone can see the Glory of God in a sunset or a flower's bloom. Understanding the bittersweet sacrifice and victory of the crucifixion of Jesus is another matter....are we any less important in our own suffering? Is it possible that we are more so because of our humanity? Our capacity for love in spite of the pain, our capacity for forgiveness, our capacity for triumph against all possible odds; these are the things we have been given to show to the rest of humanity.

I regret sharing so much of myself and hope others are not offended, take what you like and leave the rest if that is how it must be.

BDGD

there have been times when someone will mention something they are going through - something I've gone through.

I believe sometimes we are given a path to learn it - so we can help travelers later on the same route. Not the greatest answer, I know ... but sometimes ... sometimes it helps.

I do believe in God.
I don't pretend to have all the answers.
In fact, i have a ton of questions.
One of the biggest is why didn't God save me from the abuse - or better yet - prevent it - when i prayed for intervention?

The one thing that has helped me most in keeping a balance between these contradictory beliefs and questions is reading about the sufferings of Jesus. if he was - as i believe, the son of God, then why did God allow him to go through all that he endured and die a torturous death? presumably - God loved Jesus more than he loves me - and yet... no rescue. I can't quite forgive a Father/God like that (stand back for lightning strikes!) - but my faith tells me that he forgicves me. and i can totally identify with a God like Jesus - who understands my pain - and then some!

so i am grudgingly accepting the ambiguity and inconsistencies and unanswered questions for now. because i need to believe in God and especially Jesus. it gives me hope. someday i hope to have answers too.

Lee

Because I believe "religion" resides within the people, I'm posting this picture about Christianity. The same can be said for Islam (especially this week), and every other religion. But people DO watch...and they do discern ...

*

Not all religious people are bigots. Not all christians are judgemental. But so many men here have been hurt by religion, or by abusers in religious disguise, that its easy to paint all religionists with the same brush of contempt. Prejudice works both ways, so lets try to be tolerant.

Wow Cloudy

So you do exactly what you fear of those "religious types" judge with out even knowing the person. tsk tsk tsk.
I love the topic, and for that for being a staunch "Christian".(Great desire to become a Pastor)
So lets explore the facts shall we.
Religion has caused more harm than good, it has been the direct cause of wars, hunger, bigotry, racism, class-ism, sexism, lust and greed, but mostly religion has turned many a good soul off what the real goal is.
What's the real goal? well to win souls, and how is that done? well through love and compassion.
Most religious churches today practice a form of worldly "Christianity" which is a lets make it so we don't offend anyone and so that we can fill the seats of our auditorium, and off course our coffers.

It pains me when I watch our gay pride marches and I see the "Religious ones" on the side of the road with there stupid posters "turn or burn" "god didn't make Adam and Steve" (WOW lke they are lke so cleva riiite.)

I cry for the damage done to the people that most need God and how they are turned against Him because of a bunch of ignorant conservatives.
Don't concern yourself with religion or religious doctrine, rather turn to the author of our faith, the One that went and spoke to the harlot,(Whore) the One that said "let he who is with out sin cast the first stone" the One that touched the unclean (lepers)and made them clean, the One that healed sinners (Non Jews) when it wasn't cool to do so.

It is not man that saves and loves souls, Only God can do that.

So don't stress yourself about silly little man, rather look to the author of our faith.

Heal well Bro'
Martin

Yup, Things have gotten so much better!

Today in the news.
In a strongly worded attack, Benedict XVI insisted that marriage should be founded on the "indissoluble" marriage between a man and a woman.
The Vatican regards being homosexual as a "deviation" and an "irregularity" and the act of homosexual sex as a sin. Further, a leading Roman Catholic cardinal reinforced the message, saying that homosexuality was an "insult to God" and that homosexuals and transsexuals will never go to heaven.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion...-dangerous.html

We are clearly on the dawn of the age of enlightenment. This does not sound anything like the dark ages. I am so greatful they know the mind of god.

The muslim president of iran also demonstrates this new vision in a tv interview yesterday.

" Do you believe that anyone is giving birth through homosexuality? Homosexuality ceases procreation. Who has said that if you like or believe in doing something ugly, and others do not accept your behavior, that they’re denying your freedom? Perhaps in a country they wish to legitimise stealing.”

So there you have it.

Catholics have been porking boys for centuries with impunity( one of the guys in my survivor group said as he was being raped as a six year old it was all good the priest said cuz he now could feel and experience the "rod of god"), and muslims condemning gays to death cuz in that world if you are strickly a top and have coitus with a manbutt its all good , but if you are the catcher well that is a ticket str8 to hell.

We have come only so far as we have limited the religious from their greater good. I have to agree with Dawkins that we are still evolving, so when a back woods boy says we dont come from monkeys you can clearly see he wrong as he is only a generation or two from flinging poo. In fact men like benedict and even some well known politicians such as Emmett C. Burns, the black democratic legislator and Baptist Minister who said the football player should shut up about "gay marriage" and "cease and desist from such injurious action" are still happy to let the shit fly.

This is the day and now is the time when gay men and women must stand up to these so called moral folk and not turn the other cheek. Being pious will get us no where. These leaders of RELIGION are not tollerant in ANY way, so why should we be expected to be any less so.

WORD