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#41088 - 06/16/03 10:09 PM What if this is as good as it gets?
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Been falling back into the complacency of isolating and being alone. Rage came on once last week, but it was bad; I intentionally bumped into a guy and was ready to fight. I'd have lots of rage before I discovered my SA, but then I usually took it out on inanimate objects, seldom on people.

Now that I want to interact with others, I find myself getting depressed with being alone. At 53, how do you begin to find relationships? For the past decade I've been pretty much a recluse and happy to be alone. The only thing I now find rewarding in my depression is being asexual and without a desire for any deviancies. Seems only in depression do I feel pure and with a solution to what often feels like hopelessness.

Now that my eyes have been opened to a life better than the one I've lived as a believer of the lies I told myself that it was my own doing, what if this is as good as it gets? Kind of like coming out of blindness only to find no light at the end of the tunnel.

_________________________
Michael

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#41089 - 06/16/03 10:29 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Mec.

Rage is a normal thing for us especially when we realize that the rage was directed inwards at ourselves. Now you know the lies that you believed just like we all did.

Quote:
Now that my eyes have been opened to a life better than the one I've lived as a believer of the lies I told myself that it was my own doing, what if this is as good as it gets? Kind of like coming out of blindness only to find no light at the end of the tunnel.
Mec you have led a reclusive life. Do you belong to a church group, a bowling league or something like that. If not maybe you should consider it. Remember you are like a young man taking that first tentative step into actually living and not just passing through life. Hey brother it is natural that you would think that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. It takes practice . Do you have any friend at all who could help you in this. Someone you can trust. Really I think the best place is, if you are a regular church goer, to become active in the activities.

You might also consider doing some volunteer work where you would meet people.

And Mec just remember where the Rage belongs; the gd perp thats where. It is not your fellow man or woman just one who was a sick asshole. Take you anger out on a pillow. It cant hurt you and it sure cant hurt the pillow.

Mec it wont be easy but I think that might be the best way to do it.

Hope this helps a bit.

Mike

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#41090 - 06/16/03 11:21 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Marc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Indeed MEC,

Quote:
...what if this is as good as it gets?
Where do we go from here? As whacked out as mikechurch is... hee hee, KIDDING!!! \:D he brings up some very valid suggestions.

My take is that, "HEY!!! you're still alive! You're still depressed! I don't think that your journey/self-discovery has ended yet!" You seem to be still attempting to control and decide what your own environment is. You have some control but not over everything. More importantly, your thinking is still at least 'a little' distorted so why not let the people outside of you whom you do trust, help you to determine when your journey is finished? Not determine... HELP determine. Use them or even us as a sound board for you. What the hell? I've got nothing better to do sometimes! Coming from my perspective... at 53 you're still a kid! You've got a few oil changes left under the hood! \:D

What's this about being asexual? How is it rewarding? If you want to be ok then. But you certainly don't have to be. There are plenty of women and men out there that go for an older man!

Quote:
...like coming out of blindness only to find no light at the end of the tunnel.
Me thinks that you need to open your eyes further chinaman! \:D

No chinese men were harmed in the commentary of this thread.

Patent pending... all rights reserved.


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#41091 - 06/17/03 07:40 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
JAG719 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 4
Loc: Detroit
Wow I'm asking this same question myself. I been through this years ago. Thought I had dealt and figured everything out and now 25 years later I'm still trying to still understand things. I'm getting numb again, its like its recycling it all over. I'm so tired of it all. I want my head to stop thinking about it anymore. STOP. I hate everyother feeling to be sexual content and acting out in my head. It doesn't seem to be subsiding inside anymore. It's be a way to long of a raod and I'm tired. But a new day is here. I'm a survivor at least I can say that. I'm broken the cycle in the family of abuse. I will pray to GOD and thank him for another beautiful day that he has given me and to ask for help with the thought in my head. Thanks everyone here.JAG

_________________________
JAG719

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#41092 - 06/17/03 09:12 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I have a lot more of better times than I do bad times and the rage can sometimes come and go with me. If I get real tired or have been fighting a lot of stuff, the rage can more easily take over. But for the most part it, the rage is much less than it was.

I do remember one year at christmas (that is when rage can hit me the hardest) and I was walking out to my car in a shopping center parking lot. A couple of "fairly good sized guys" were walking by and I took what I thought was them laughing about me. I went into the "attack mode" and started to get quite mouthy with them and challenged them. Fortunately, they were in a good mood and just ignored me because I was ready to rumble. And most likely with two of them, I would have got my butt kicked.

The part that really gets me right now is the buttholes that I deal with at work. Some days it is all I can do to just not tell them where to go. With jobs the way they are right now, I have to hold on for a few more months, but they sure spark the rage within me.

I'm finding that sleep, relaxation and doing fun things in life are helping me. But, that volcano still simmers below.... AT least I'm not like my father where I attack people and beat the day lights out of them. I do remember the temper he had and what he used to do with me in regards to it.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#41093 - 06/17/03 09:49 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Michael,

Quote:
At 53, how do you begin to find relationships?
I should know better by now than to try to answer questions like this, but I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet. \:D

You begin at 53 the way you would have at 13. You find something that interests you, and someone else who's interested. You make the effort to listen to what they have to say and the effort to really understand what they mean. Repeat it back to them, maybe in your own words, to be sure you've got it. Make it clear to them that you are interested in what they have to say.

You have to decide what interests you. Where to find the other person? Where do you do the interesting things? I like Mike's suggestion that you start with your faith community, but it's possible that you're not one for organized religions. How about organized hobbies? You like to bike, check bike shops for info on clubs and local trails. You like sports, join a sports league. Check the web sites for your local area to find more contacts for different activities.

OK, lucidity approaches as I finish cup #1, so I'm going to post now.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#41094 - 06/17/03 10:52 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Joe,
That was simply an elegant bit of advice. Heck, I'm 25 and I struggle with that same question. Thanks for sharing.
Mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#41095 - 06/17/03 01:58 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Seems only in depression do I feel pure and with a solution to what often feels like hopelessness.
Michael, maybe that's becuz you are facing the pain you've been burying in rage & in acting out or numbing out the pain. It hurts yet it gives you clarity. Which sometimes makes you wonder if ignorance isn't bliss. It isn't. But who likes pain?
http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/daffy_duck/ltdd_182.wav



Quote:
Now that my eyes have been opened to a life better than the one I've lived as a believer of the lies I told myself that it was my own doing, what if this is as good as it gets? Kind of like coming out of blindness only to find no light at the end of the tunnel.
Michael, perhaps you were "Blinded By the Light."
Were there a light at the end of the tunnel it might be a Mac Truck! Now you can emerge from the tunnel with its extremes of total darkness or dangerous light, into the real world.

And it seems that is what you're doing.

And yes it does get better! \:\)

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#41096 - 06/17/03 06:37 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
It depends on what you mean by better Michael. If you mean some absolutes such as: will you be free of depression - will you be free of anger - will you be successful and content with your success - will you be popular - will you be amusing and socially adept ????? The answer is probably not. The fact is: everyone experiences ups and downs in life, and few people are wholly satisfied with their lot in life. People who have never even heard of SA issues are prone to ups and downs. Navigating life is a learning experience for everyone and some will learn better and faster than others. It isn't necessarily about sexual abuse. I am a year younger than you and have also experienced the asexual non appetite thang for periods of months, I put it down to age and a lower hormone level, no big deal. As we are well into middle age, our interests, abilities and perspectives change. Sometimes I look at life and ask myself "is that all there is Alfie". And then I am reminded to ask myself "how much am I putting into this". If the answer is: Not much, but I'm sure feeling sorry for myself. Then don't expect much back.
Peace, Andrew


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#41097 - 06/17/03 06:58 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
I'm lucky in that I have my wife and friends around me, and I don't experience loneliness unless I want to be alone, which is a an entirely different thing I know.

But as I shifted my old behaviours - deviances as you call them fits my old acting out I suppose - I found the empty feelings you feel as well.

I had to make a concious effort to fill my head and my time with something new, hopefully something better as well.
I started with small stuff like listening to talk radio instead of music as I drove around all day at work. That way my mind was active as I ranted and raved at the idiots on the radio, although sometimes I even agreed with them. But it turned my mind away from being a vacant lot just waiting for a fantasy to fill it.

From there I returned to my old hobbies of woodworking, reading and becoming active with the 4x4 Club I was in. I started to edit the newsletter, became a committee member. I'm building a new competition 4x4 at the moment.
I also find time to help here and at a local charity that helps survivors.

Five years ago I vegetated in front of the TV every night, now I hardly turn the thing on. I was a recluse in my own mind, I met people but didn't interact with them in any meaningful way at all.

We make a tremendous effort to start our healing, and as it progresses we find it takes less effort to maintain, at least that's what I felt.
So I diverted that effort, I looked around and saw what my friends and workmates did and I wondered how they managed to fit it all in ?
And when I tried I found I could too, well most of it I fit in anyway.

I spent so much time as a victim thinking that I was useless and nobody would want to bother with me that when I did get off my arse and try new things I was shocked to find that I was very little different to anyone else. Now my relationships with friends are completely different, I share myself with them I guess, and I get a lot in return.

Pick up a local paper and see what's going on, they advertise so people go to their events whatever they may be - so that's half the battle won.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#41098 - 06/17/03 07:59 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Thanks to everyone. I have to think I was just feeling sorry for myself slipping back into my old nasty habits. Relative to the 'high' of the first three weeks of this new life of mine, I didn't like - don't like - HATE being in that dirty place. Makes me feel like hiding again, unlike the new me who has really become a good, solid, caring person to be around.

Last week I even went to my niece’s daughters' recitals, dance for the 7 yo and piano for the 9 yo.

My boss likes the changes and progress I've made since she put my job on the line if I didn't get help for a rage I could not honestly see. I tell her that was the other guy and he agrees. Yet, today she invited me to go with her to DC for a conference and my mind immediately went into the thought that she might get to know the despicable person I am was... Same old shit as before, the lack of giving of yourself because maybe it - Holy COW!! As I was writing I could SEE the protection mechanism kick in.

After I told her I don't think I could go, because of some bogus excuse, I went into her office and asked if I disappointed her in that she maybe wanted my company. I think she understood, but I still feel I let her down. She told me that (my decision to not go because of disappointing her) that that shouldn't concern me.

I think I'm still getting lost in the forest for my focus on the tree, on me.

Off to meet people at a gay AA meeting. ?Two birds with one stone?

_________________________
Michael

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#41099 - 06/17/03 08:10 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Good luck at the meeting Michael.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#41100 - 06/17/03 10:54 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Have a good meeting Michael. But about the two birds thing ..... isn't there something about a "single mindedness of purpose" ... just asking.
Peace, Andrew


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#41101 - 06/18/03 07:20 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Hi Andrew,
I'm not sure what "single mindedness of purpose" means, sorry.

I know I want to go to AA, but , because my sobriety is better than I could imagine after having unlocked some of my past, I use AA to at least get out of the house. If I should meet some one at a meeting and a relationship develops, all that much better.

Stay well

_________________________
Michael

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#41102 - 06/19/03 04:21 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
HI Michael, It was my understanding that AA espouses that a recovering alcoholic maintain a single mindedness of purpose during meetings, that being focussing on the 12 steps leading to sobriety.

I quote: "The source of strength in A.A. is its singlemindedness of purpose. The mission of A.A. is to help alcoholics." by Dr. Vincent Dole,for several years a trustee on the General Service Board of A.A.

I'm sure you've also heard of the AA 12 traditions. The 5th one makes reference to this issue.
"Each group has but one primary purpose ,to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers."

It is also my understanding that they discourage relationships within the first year of sobriety Michael. If someone has more clarity on this topic .... please jump in. At any rate, in my very humble opinion, I don't believe that an AA meeting is a good place to find a date, look for potential relationships, or as you put it, "kill two birds with one stone".
Peace, Andrew


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#41103 - 06/19/03 09:03 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Michael,Andrew et al,

Very good discussion, guys. Michael you really hit me where I live.....and die.

For me being aware of the truth of the abuse in my life was a huge event--watershed I believe people say. I though the world would change. And it didn't. But I did....very slowly.

While this new info relieved some of the anxiety of not knowing why I felt so crappy my whole life, I had to learn the next big lesson for a smart-ass, cynical intellectualizing, over analyzing, "I'm going to control this by the power of my own mind!"

Ha!! I couldn't even control my intake of alcoholic beverages and I was going to "think" my way out the nightmare of sexual abuse...alone?

Someone much wiser than me once said, "The real
addiction of the alcoholic( sub. ragea holic, etc) is SELF RELIANCE."

I expect to solve my own intransigeant lifetime
problems such as surviving sexual abuse ALONE and UNAIDED by simply understanding it better.

When I start using my understanding like I used everything else in my life, as a tool to try to control or change the past, then I am being very unreasonable in my expectation of myself.

It pisses me off at myself. It leaves me feeling sad. Hopeless. Worthless. After 10 or 20 years of this, it all coalesces in RAGE.

Being an Aware Victim without moving forward into true Acceptance is a really hard place to be.
I know.

For me acceptance is when I cease fighting and trying to manipulate what has already happened like the abuse. Acceptance does not mean that I like or approve of abuse. Far from it.

It means that I recognize it's true nature in relationship to myself.

Go to AA for whatever reason gets you in the door. The smallest amount of willingness to break open the wall of denial is a miracle.

One of my favorite meetings is in NYC, "the Mustard Seed." I'm no Christian, but I know the quote from the Bible. "if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, nothing is impossible to you...(paraphrase)".

Mustard seeds are pretty goddamned tiny, but grow into very big plants--not by dint of willpower or skill or good looks, but by surrendering their nature of a seed, sacrificing the life of a seed to grow into a plant.

Rather than requiring efforts to grow, it more requires effort to stay out of the way of the sun and the rain.

I haven't been on a date or met anyone in that way for the last two years. I got so sick from the realization of the sexual abuse (and other things) that I had to devote my energy to getting better.

God really got my attention--I didn't have the energy to run away from my emotions. or seek to find the escape from reality in some guys levis.

I had to sit still, feel all that I had been unable to process before, ask for and accept the help, the sun and the rain that God puts in my life.

I've met someone through the personals this week.
We're scheduled to have dinner together on Saturday. I am going out of my fucking mind with anxiety. I am so afraid of failing again, of getting hurt, of fucking up one more time.

So thanks for all the good suggstions about caring for myself, being patient, focussing on what's good in me rather than what's lacking.

The sexual abuse continues to torture me to this day. I felt the joy of closeness to another man, the abuser, then realized it was all bullshit. He was using me. I still feel so ashamed.

He was using me and I feel ashamed. Go figure.

For the weekend, I've talked about ways I can not fall into old behaviors. Up front I told this guy that there would be no sexual contact at first. I hope to have the strength to stay true to that. I have been so lonely and needing the touch of another man.....but giving myself away on first day don't leave much to give and unreal expectations of what I should receive.

Instead of trying to make myself liked by him, I'm trying to think of myself as a real catch..that he is lucky to get to meet me. That I'm going to honestly look at him to see if he has the qualities I seek like honesty, compassion etc. instead of falling in lust because he sucked my dick.

It's scary to give up the old life, because our new one is like that little seed. Don't look like much. I guess that's where that tiny bit of faith in ourselves, in God if we can and certainly in you guys here in the group.

One of you called me last night when I was really down and out emotionally, crying and just feeling like shit.

There was no magic bullet, just one survivor talking to another. When I hung up the phone, nothing had really changed, yet I felt so different, less agitated and more at peace.

Thanks. I love you guys because of the way you make me feel. You are a blessing in my life, the miracle I've always wanted and needed.

Go to that AA meeting. Check out the cute guys (stay away from the new ones) and listen and learn. You're on the right track buddy.

What got me started responding is what I'll close with.

Two questions:

One:

How do you find and follow YOUR primary purpose?

Two: Why the hell would you want to throw stones

at those tiny little creatures and What the

hell good would you do with two dead birds?

Sending you all best wishes for a steady recovery,

Lycanthropic love is the best!

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#41104 - 06/19/03 09:42 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Danny,

Quote:
Someone much wiser than me once said, "The real
addiction of the alcoholic( sub. ragea holic, etc) is SELF RELIANCE."
Ain't that the truth? It's my fierce determination to be self reliant that contributed so much to my isolation that drove my need to be self reliant that....

Quote:
Being an Aware Victim without moving forward into true Acceptance is a really hard place to be.
And another truth. Geez, before I finish my first cup of coffee again. \:\)

I'm unsure what my memory holds now. I have always, since the horrifying moment when it began, been aware that I had been molested, abused, raped. Since I disclosed to my wife last year I've been examining my memory to find that I don't have a clear memory of any of those nights, start to finish. But I have always been aware.

Acceptance. Hmm, how to get there? How many lies will I give up on the way there? That I was somehow responsible? I'm working on that one. That I should have told someone? I don't know how to work on that. Maybe it's not a lie. Or does that stem from the need for self reliance and lead back to me being responsible?

Anyway, there's a lot of road to travel between here and acceptance.

Quote:
Go to AA for whatever reason gets you in the door. The smallest amount of willingness to break open the wall of denial is a miracle.
Michael,

By all means, if alcohol is getting in the way of living the life you want and deserve, then go to AA. Listen and learn. Even if you only get dry instead of sober, you're better off. And the chance to get sober is still there.

Quote:
The sexual abuse continues to torture me to this day. I felt the joy of closeness to another man, the abuser, then realized it was all bullshit. He was using me. I still feel so ashamed.

He was using me and I feel ashamed. Go figure.
No matter how much coffee I have, I can't figure that one. I could have written those words, they're so close to my experience.


Quote:
How do you find and follow YOUR primary purpose?
I can't really say yet. I'm still working on "find" and that work may turn out to be the essence of "follow" for all I know.

Danny, I hope you meet someone nice this weekend, and have a relaxed good time sharing with each other about your lives and likes. You most certainly deserve no less.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#41105 - 06/19/03 10:23 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
I have refrained from posting to this thread because I only have negative things to offer as I continue to get more frustrated, looking for non existant outlets or people who actually give a tinkers damn. And the only ones I see responding here are living on some sort of theraputic cloud, praising the miracles of modern counseling. But... thank God for at least having this site with success stories.
What about the rest of the world here who do not have the therapy option available to them, Christian or secular? And I think one has proven to be just as hideous and potentially dangerous as the other, and I won't even start on that tangent.
I believe this IS as good as it gets.
Personally, I am about ready to go out and TAKE back some of what has been stolen from me.
It has to be more fufilling than continually having to defend this..

quote: 'In this time of economic uncertainty, it's easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks.'

Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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#41106 - 06/19/03 10:37 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
I believe this IS as good as it gets.
Personally, I am about ready to go out and TAKE back some of what has been stolen from me.
It has to be more fufilling than continually having to defend this..
Tom,

I'm glad you did join the thread.

I don't know how "good" it is for anyone, so I can't say whether you're at the "good as it gets" point or not. But I would like to know more about what you will "take back." As I learned back last month, and discussed in this thread , "take back" is literally the IndoEuropean root of "recover." I posted about some of the things that I want to take back, but I'd like to hear more from you and others about that.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#41107 - 06/19/03 12:46 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hi
I am taking back my LIFE, SEPF RESPECT AND MY DIGNITY so that I might live as who I really am and not what some assholes forced me to become.

Why am I doing this? Because I want to enjoy my wife, daughter, in the future son-in-law and grandchilren. I want to see things with my wife and to relax with her and be close without constantly worrying.

I dont think that is too much to want. Is it as good as it gets? LETS JUST SAY IT IS AS GOOD AS I AM CAPABLE OF RIGHT NOW AND IT WILL IMPROVE AS I IMPROVE.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#41108 - 06/19/03 01:50 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Tom,

I'm really glad you joined this thread too.

All the therapeutic pink cloud experience in the

world ain't worth a damn if it don't work.

I need some healthy skepticism about everything,

especially as a survivor of sexual abuse who

lost faith and trust. Hard to get those back with

my eyes squeezed shut and holding my nose.

Thanks for giving me the poke I need to keep me

from faking a spiritual orgasm.

And thanks also for reminding me--Of course this

is as good as it gets!! This moment is all there

is. Past is non-existent, future is a product of

my warped imagination.

You are so right! This moment, right now is as

as good (beautiful, dramatic, scary, loving and

everything else there is) as it gets.

Because this is all there is.

Joe, the recovery theme is so good for me--the

definition that works best for me at the moment

is just like yours.

Recover:

"To regain or get back that which has been
lost due to illness or injury."

Recovery for me has to be based in the present,


the here and now. I must look at the past----

but it's dangerous to stare.

I want to of plan on a great future. Planning on

a lousy one seems to work all too well. To be

able to live successfuly I need hopes and dreams

Life really sucks without them. But I can't

live in that imaginary world; after a while

they lock up people like that, like me.

I done been there.

For me recovery focusses on living in the

present, being able to leave the past behind and

learning to believe in the possiblity of a future.

What I have to watch out for is an obsession

with Revenge, an irrational attempt to

change the past or a fantasy of punishment set in

the future.

Sure a little daydream of sticking

the abusers head in the toilet and repeatedly

flushing is a good catharsis for me.

I have to watch out not to become fixated on it,

since that puts the focus back on the

offender. He's already had free rent in my life

for too long. After becoming painfully

aware of the devastation of the past, it is

the process of recovery that leads me forward and

away. Revenge takes me back to the past, to the

offender, to what is wrong with everything,

to doling out punishment.

I know I'll be first in that line.

That is not my primary purpose.

Wow, thanks so much. You guys are brilliant.

Tom, you've got a lot to say, guy. Can you

believe it when I say I want, I need to hear it?

An overly stimulated fellow MS lycanthropist,

\:D \:D ;\) :p :rolleyes: \:\) :p

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#41109 - 06/19/03 06:38 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom S.:
I believe this IS as good as it gets.
Dear Tom and all,

Maybe I have just become adept at inducing hope, but something in me can't concede to this statement being an abolute truth.

I firmly believe that currently, in this moment of time and space, we, in a defining moment of the culture, are involved in a "series of steps toward a desired result" [I wanted to avoid using the word "P" word.......] I see in the microcosm of my own life how obstacles have been overcome that could never have been surmounted by sheer willpower alone. I feel and believe that the same evolution of consciousness is occuring in the macrocosm of this social construct where we abide. Things have gotten better for women, people of differing color, culture, sexual orientation etc. Justice is being served to the world on a bloody platter, but there you have it.

5 years ago or 10 months ago or 3 days ago, or 7 seconds ago, things WERE as good as they were gonna get at that exact moment, to be sure, but in retrospect we can look back and say they have definately gotten better since then. I am healthier, happier, richer in many ways, etc, but none of it happened by accident. It all became better because I cooperated with something beyond my limited souce of power and continued to proceed to chose courses of action that would lead to desired results, even as the seconds ever so slowly or quickly became minutes, the minutes hours, the hours, days, the.........

To say it is as good as it gets implies that I have, at this point, discovered the full range of my capacities, and have no more room to develop, nothing more to learn. That is so far from the truth for me; I am done when I say I am done, when I give up or give in. But as long as I have strength to take on the next battle with the next substance that stands between me and more inner freedom, then I have something higher and better to reach for. And when I have transcended all of the chains, and for as long as my faculties engage me, then piece by piece I will restore back to myself that which was taken from me without willingness.

If I can't believe in that then what can I believe in? Hope is all I have, and for me has been the best training ground for learning about trust. through hope-ing I have learned to trust myself and that's the best place to start, me thinks.

I am not sure if anything I've said made any sense to anyone else, but it sure helped me, to try to say it. Thanks for the bandwidth, and I pray all be well............

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#41110 - 06/19/03 06:49 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Oh,

Quote:
And the only ones I see responding here are living on some sort of theraputic cloud, praising the miracles of modern counseling
I just wanted to mention, not that it amounts to a hill of beans, but I am not in therapy, and never have given it any more than a couple of months at a time [guess I just didn't find the right match, but at least the little bit helped]. Also, I do not have the hand of religion making my mouth move..none of my recovery rests entirely on any of those things, but rather on my belief in the parent power that wants good things for me. I am part of this brotherhood of wolves and for that I am grateful.

Danny, once again your perceptions knocked my socks off; I always make sure I am sitting down when you speak............... \:D

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#41111 - 06/19/03 09:00 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Thanks to all for the words of wisdom.

Danny, you made me laugh for what appears our similarities; the sudden uncovering of what has kept us down, now allowing us to fly; the isolation; and wanting the weekend date most to be mind contact.

I wish you luck and do believe it will go well for you.

_________________________
Michael

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#41112 - 06/20/03 08:55 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
ernie Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 121
Loc: Portland, Maine
Now that my eyes have been opened to a life better than the one I've lived as a believer of the lies I told myself that it was my own doing, what if this is as good as it gets? Kind of like coming out of blindness only to find no light at the end of the tunnel.

Michael, there is light at the end of the tunnel, we have to shine that light. It isn't as good as it gets, it will be what we make it. We were deprived of so much and it continued for me until I finally realized that it wasn't me that asked for it, I can now stop passing blame on myself, I can grow and develop into that person I always wanted to be.
Unfortunately, I woke up too late, my wife asked me to leave, people I thought were friends have basically had nothing to do with me for almost 3 years. I have had to be my own support mechanism. With the help of those here, I can see beyond my dispair that there is hope, it can be better.
The downers are really down, I was so low for so long I forgot what it was like to feel good. One day I woke up and said there is no one that can make me feel good until I help myself feel good. I got off my ass, stopped feeling sorry for myself and engaged in things I enjoy.
Yes indeed, there are down days, I get so lonely for my wife some days, but I know I need to give her time to sort through all that has happened.
No one said it was going to be easy, but man when a good day comes along or someone says something positive about you, it sure makes the task easier.
Stay tough Michael, be proud of you, be proud that you identified the problem and are working to make your life better
Bob

_________________________
The roads of life are full of stones but, they can be moved take my hand we will help each other.

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#41113 - 06/20/03 09:33 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
One last time guys, just to mkae sure we are understanding each other completly about this theraputic cloud thing.

If you have a system available to recieve theraputic help and are making progress with a professional, thats what it's all about.

But, if you live in that theraputic cloud, maybe even further clouded by Prozac or Lexapro, the danger of being further vicitimized is REAL.
I don't know about each of your personal "T's" but I know about what I have been exposed to and it is in many instances worse than the original f*****ng I was seeking help for.
Perhaps in Boston or southern Ca. there are stricter sets of guidlines that the T community follows. But here in middle Tn, there is not one damn thing to keep any young girl or boy from being 'court assigned' to walk right in to see a counselor who could very well be on the Sexual Offenders Registry. There is NO system of policing, and anyone, espicially those who are dependant on title 6 programs are vulnerable.
There may be good qualified help out there, but from my experience, you had better well know there are destructive people also.
The peril of being re-victimized must be made public, due to the covert nature of it's use.

quote:' In this time of economic uncertainty, it's easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks.'

Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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#41114 - 06/20/03 10:49 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
Perhaps in Boston or southern Ca. there are stricter sets of guidlines that the T community follows. But here in middle Tn, there is not one damn thing to keep any young girl or boy from being 'court assigned' to walk right in to see a counselor who could very well be on the Sexual Offenders Registry. There is NO system of policing, and anyone, espicially those who are dependant on title 6 programs are vulnerable.
Tom,

I just wrote to Mark Crawford about joining the Advocacy and Activism SubCommittee . Thanks for the kick in the ass that I needed. If the children are that unprotected, someone (not Noman, someone) has to help them. I don't have to be on TV to be helping.

Gratefully,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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