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#41098 - 06/17/03 07:59 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Thanks to everyone. I have to think I was just feeling sorry for myself slipping back into my old nasty habits. Relative to the 'high' of the first three weeks of this new life of mine, I didn't like - don't like - HATE being in that dirty place. Makes me feel like hiding again, unlike the new me who has really become a good, solid, caring person to be around.

Last week I even went to my niece’s daughters' recitals, dance for the 7 yo and piano for the 9 yo.

My boss likes the changes and progress I've made since she put my job on the line if I didn't get help for a rage I could not honestly see. I tell her that was the other guy and he agrees. Yet, today she invited me to go with her to DC for a conference and my mind immediately went into the thought that she might get to know the despicable person I am was... Same old shit as before, the lack of giving of yourself because maybe it - Holy COW!! As I was writing I could SEE the protection mechanism kick in.

After I told her I don't think I could go, because of some bogus excuse, I went into her office and asked if I disappointed her in that she maybe wanted my company. I think she understood, but I still feel I let her down. She told me that (my decision to not go because of disappointing her) that that shouldn't concern me.

I think I'm still getting lost in the forest for my focus on the tree, on me.

Off to meet people at a gay AA meeting. ?Two birds with one stone?

_________________________
Michael

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#41099 - 06/17/03 08:10 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Good luck at the meeting Michael.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#41100 - 06/17/03 10:54 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Have a good meeting Michael. But about the two birds thing ..... isn't there something about a "single mindedness of purpose" ... just asking.
Peace, Andrew


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#41101 - 06/18/03 07:20 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Hi Andrew,
I'm not sure what "single mindedness of purpose" means, sorry.

I know I want to go to AA, but , because my sobriety is better than I could imagine after having unlocked some of my past, I use AA to at least get out of the house. If I should meet some one at a meeting and a relationship develops, all that much better.

Stay well

_________________________
Michael

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#41102 - 06/19/03 04:21 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
HI Michael, It was my understanding that AA espouses that a recovering alcoholic maintain a single mindedness of purpose during meetings, that being focussing on the 12 steps leading to sobriety.

I quote: "The source of strength in A.A. is its singlemindedness of purpose. The mission of A.A. is to help alcoholics." by Dr. Vincent Dole,for several years a trustee on the General Service Board of A.A.

I'm sure you've also heard of the AA 12 traditions. The 5th one makes reference to this issue.
"Each group has but one primary purpose ,to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers."

It is also my understanding that they discourage relationships within the first year of sobriety Michael. If someone has more clarity on this topic .... please jump in. At any rate, in my very humble opinion, I don't believe that an AA meeting is a good place to find a date, look for potential relationships, or as you put it, "kill two birds with one stone".
Peace, Andrew


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#41103 - 06/19/03 09:03 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Michael,Andrew et al,

Very good discussion, guys. Michael you really hit me where I live.....and die.

For me being aware of the truth of the abuse in my life was a huge event--watershed I believe people say. I though the world would change. And it didn't. But I did....very slowly.

While this new info relieved some of the anxiety of not knowing why I felt so crappy my whole life, I had to learn the next big lesson for a smart-ass, cynical intellectualizing, over analyzing, "I'm going to control this by the power of my own mind!"

Ha!! I couldn't even control my intake of alcoholic beverages and I was going to "think" my way out the nightmare of sexual abuse...alone?

Someone much wiser than me once said, "The real
addiction of the alcoholic( sub. ragea holic, etc) is SELF RELIANCE."

I expect to solve my own intransigeant lifetime
problems such as surviving sexual abuse ALONE and UNAIDED by simply understanding it better.

When I start using my understanding like I used everything else in my life, as a tool to try to control or change the past, then I am being very unreasonable in my expectation of myself.

It pisses me off at myself. It leaves me feeling sad. Hopeless. Worthless. After 10 or 20 years of this, it all coalesces in RAGE.

Being an Aware Victim without moving forward into true Acceptance is a really hard place to be.
I know.

For me acceptance is when I cease fighting and trying to manipulate what has already happened like the abuse. Acceptance does not mean that I like or approve of abuse. Far from it.

It means that I recognize it's true nature in relationship to myself.

Go to AA for whatever reason gets you in the door. The smallest amount of willingness to break open the wall of denial is a miracle.

One of my favorite meetings is in NYC, "the Mustard Seed." I'm no Christian, but I know the quote from the Bible. "if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, nothing is impossible to you...(paraphrase)".

Mustard seeds are pretty goddamned tiny, but grow into very big plants--not by dint of willpower or skill or good looks, but by surrendering their nature of a seed, sacrificing the life of a seed to grow into a plant.

Rather than requiring efforts to grow, it more requires effort to stay out of the way of the sun and the rain.

I haven't been on a date or met anyone in that way for the last two years. I got so sick from the realization of the sexual abuse (and other things) that I had to devote my energy to getting better.

God really got my attention--I didn't have the energy to run away from my emotions. or seek to find the escape from reality in some guys levis.

I had to sit still, feel all that I had been unable to process before, ask for and accept the help, the sun and the rain that God puts in my life.

I've met someone through the personals this week.
We're scheduled to have dinner together on Saturday. I am going out of my fucking mind with anxiety. I am so afraid of failing again, of getting hurt, of fucking up one more time.

So thanks for all the good suggstions about caring for myself, being patient, focussing on what's good in me rather than what's lacking.

The sexual abuse continues to torture me to this day. I felt the joy of closeness to another man, the abuser, then realized it was all bullshit. He was using me. I still feel so ashamed.

He was using me and I feel ashamed. Go figure.

For the weekend, I've talked about ways I can not fall into old behaviors. Up front I told this guy that there would be no sexual contact at first. I hope to have the strength to stay true to that. I have been so lonely and needing the touch of another man.....but giving myself away on first day don't leave much to give and unreal expectations of what I should receive.

Instead of trying to make myself liked by him, I'm trying to think of myself as a real catch..that he is lucky to get to meet me. That I'm going to honestly look at him to see if he has the qualities I seek like honesty, compassion etc. instead of falling in lust because he sucked my dick.

It's scary to give up the old life, because our new one is like that little seed. Don't look like much. I guess that's where that tiny bit of faith in ourselves, in God if we can and certainly in you guys here in the group.

One of you called me last night when I was really down and out emotionally, crying and just feeling like shit.

There was no magic bullet, just one survivor talking to another. When I hung up the phone, nothing had really changed, yet I felt so different, less agitated and more at peace.

Thanks. I love you guys because of the way you make me feel. You are a blessing in my life, the miracle I've always wanted and needed.

Go to that AA meeting. Check out the cute guys (stay away from the new ones) and listen and learn. You're on the right track buddy.

What got me started responding is what I'll close with.

Two questions:

One:

How do you find and follow YOUR primary purpose?

Two: Why the hell would you want to throw stones

at those tiny little creatures and What the

hell good would you do with two dead birds?

Sending you all best wishes for a steady recovery,

Lycanthropic love is the best!

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#41104 - 06/19/03 09:42 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Danny,

Quote:
Someone much wiser than me once said, "The real
addiction of the alcoholic( sub. ragea holic, etc) is SELF RELIANCE."
Ain't that the truth? It's my fierce determination to be self reliant that contributed so much to my isolation that drove my need to be self reliant that....

Quote:
Being an Aware Victim without moving forward into true Acceptance is a really hard place to be.
And another truth. Geez, before I finish my first cup of coffee again. \:\)

I'm unsure what my memory holds now. I have always, since the horrifying moment when it began, been aware that I had been molested, abused, raped. Since I disclosed to my wife last year I've been examining my memory to find that I don't have a clear memory of any of those nights, start to finish. But I have always been aware.

Acceptance. Hmm, how to get there? How many lies will I give up on the way there? That I was somehow responsible? I'm working on that one. That I should have told someone? I don't know how to work on that. Maybe it's not a lie. Or does that stem from the need for self reliance and lead back to me being responsible?

Anyway, there's a lot of road to travel between here and acceptance.

Quote:
Go to AA for whatever reason gets you in the door. The smallest amount of willingness to break open the wall of denial is a miracle.
Michael,

By all means, if alcohol is getting in the way of living the life you want and deserve, then go to AA. Listen and learn. Even if you only get dry instead of sober, you're better off. And the chance to get sober is still there.

Quote:
The sexual abuse continues to torture me to this day. I felt the joy of closeness to another man, the abuser, then realized it was all bullshit. He was using me. I still feel so ashamed.

He was using me and I feel ashamed. Go figure.
No matter how much coffee I have, I can't figure that one. I could have written those words, they're so close to my experience.


Quote:
How do you find and follow YOUR primary purpose?
I can't really say yet. I'm still working on "find" and that work may turn out to be the essence of "follow" for all I know.

Danny, I hope you meet someone nice this weekend, and have a relaxed good time sharing with each other about your lives and likes. You most certainly deserve no less.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#41105 - 06/19/03 10:23 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
I have refrained from posting to this thread because I only have negative things to offer as I continue to get more frustrated, looking for non existant outlets or people who actually give a tinkers damn. And the only ones I see responding here are living on some sort of theraputic cloud, praising the miracles of modern counseling. But... thank God for at least having this site with success stories.
What about the rest of the world here who do not have the therapy option available to them, Christian or secular? And I think one has proven to be just as hideous and potentially dangerous as the other, and I won't even start on that tangent.
I believe this IS as good as it gets.
Personally, I am about ready to go out and TAKE back some of what has been stolen from me.
It has to be more fufilling than continually having to defend this..

quote: 'In this time of economic uncertainty, it's easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks.'

Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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#41106 - 06/19/03 10:37 AM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
I believe this IS as good as it gets.
Personally, I am about ready to go out and TAKE back some of what has been stolen from me.
It has to be more fufilling than continually having to defend this..
Tom,

I'm glad you did join the thread.

I don't know how "good" it is for anyone, so I can't say whether you're at the "good as it gets" point or not. But I would like to know more about what you will "take back." As I learned back last month, and discussed in this thread , "take back" is literally the IndoEuropean root of "recover." I posted about some of the things that I want to take back, but I'd like to hear more from you and others about that.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#41107 - 06/19/03 12:46 PM Re: What if this is as good as it gets?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hi
I am taking back my LIFE, SEPF RESPECT AND MY DIGNITY so that I might live as who I really am and not what some assholes forced me to become.

Why am I doing this? Because I want to enjoy my wife, daughter, in the future son-in-law and grandchilren. I want to see things with my wife and to relax with her and be close without constantly worrying.

I dont think that is too much to want. Is it as good as it gets? LETS JUST SAY IT IS AS GOOD AS I AM CAPABLE OF RIGHT NOW AND IT WILL IMPROVE AS I IMPROVE.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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