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#410692 - 09/20/12 01:05 AM All Guys Do It
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
Allright I got your attention. But lets face it, we all relieve ourselves. Its normal. Some more than others. Some are lucky enough to have regular sex partners. Some are older and the drive isn't as strong anymore. But we all do it. My question is why do I as a CSA survivor still feel guilty about it? I've weaned myself off porn for the most part. I've let go of fantasizing about my abuse and abuser. When I have sex with a woman (a rare thing)I LOVE it. But when I need to relieve myself I feel like a little kid, ashamed of what I'm doing. Any ideas what thats all about?
_________________________
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
And I have become comfortably numb."
Pink Floyd

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#410693 - 09/20/12 01:18 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
already no this will Not be the popular answer but I call it for what it is


SIN



agree or disagree that is my 2 pennies
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#410697 - 09/20/12 02:06 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
I am not so weak that this shames me. Men come here for understanding and support. Keep your judgemental attitude to yourself before you do some real damage to somebody who isn't as strong.
_________________________
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
And I have become comfortably numb."
Pink Floyd

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#410698 - 09/20/12 02:16 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
traveler Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3204
Loc: back in the USA
one reason is that it is so often very closely linked to porn use/habits - which can be very harmful.

another is that it can - in my experience - lead to re-living abusive events - not a healthy or positive practice.

another - that it tends to encourage isolation and withdrawal and if there is someone that you are in a relationship with - it can hurt them and make them feel inadequate and rejected.

and - like nlt says - many people feel it is sinful - or have been conditioned to feel that way - so there is a lot of guilt attached to it.

and yeah - we are taught by society that "real men" wouldn't have to do that. they'd have plenty of other options. so we feel less than whole and immature and weak and undesirable...
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
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#410700 - 09/20/12 02:25 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
I wonder how much religion has to play with introducing shame into sexuality and sexual expression within a society/culture? Shame and guilt seem to emanate from religious belief and judgment.

In many cultures where Christinaity is not the predominant religion, masturbating is considered completely normal and natural and accepted.

I grew up a fundamentalist Christian and became deeply ashamed of my sexual awakening at 13. Masturbation was evil and inherently wrong. I missed out on learning about my body because of this shame for years.

I wish I never had that experience either (in addition to the CSA). Shaming someone for masturbating is as silly and pointless as shaming someone for drinking milk.

No - I take that back. As a CSA survivor who has had to deal with incredible amounts of shame -- I have to say that shaming someone for learning about and exploring their own body qualifies as abuse.

D


Edited by Magellan (09/20/12 02:43 AM)
Edit Reason: clarity
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#410701 - 09/20/12 02:35 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
peroperic2009 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3566
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey buddies Gary and nltsaved, we are at same sides...
For some of us who were introduced to sexual world at very early age I think that some things were simply imprinted and it is impossible to avoid some negative effects - here I think more about some fantasies and same sex attraction and so on. I'm not sure about shame, I don't have it when I need to relieve myself, I thnik it is normal and completely biologically and physiologically conditioned need and that is. But I know that my mum was very against it and I as boy have fight about it, at the end I've decided to not talk about it, her talking was more than distrurbing for me frown
She talked from puritan point of view and I as boy thought how insane that is so I closed myself completely for future talks, must say that I've felt isolated and lonely...

Pero
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#410705 - 09/20/12 02:51 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: nltsaved]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: nltsaved
already no this will Not be the popular answer but I call it for what it is


SIN



agree or disagree that is my 2 pennies


I still AM an evangelical Christian. I've never heard nor seen the Bible directly discuss Masturbation (as in "never"). It does talk about sexual impurity, but I think MB and sexual impurity have precious little to do with each other....no....nothing to do with each other.

We were sinned against and damaged. Though our sex-switch was turned-on prematurely or not, MB is an element of life. Its a body-life element.

I KNOW for a fact that if some younger perpetrators knew they could MB their way out of dramatically-strong urges, some CSA would never take place.

Finally, dropping the "SIN" bomb/label upon someone seeking answers is not answering anything. Its bombing him with a judgement. Judging the item a survivor is seeking help with is not helping. Its tossing a grenade and ducking-down.

Don't do that here please. Its fully non-constructive to God's wishes. it smacks of police enforcement and we are NOT called to be God's earthly enforcers.

"SIN" does not help the wounded do diddly or understand squat. It just comes-off as arrogant Christian Crap.

The truths of the bible are always truth, but this topic is not even defined therein.


Edited by Robbie Brown (09/20/12 02:51 AM)
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#410706 - 09/20/12 02:53 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
On this forum, where we openly and frankly discuss all kinds of sexual issues, and all types of sexuality with acceptance and respect, it dumbfounds me that the subject of masturbation is raising even a ripple of controversy. Forget I ever brought it up.

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#410707 - 09/20/12 02:55 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: peroperic2009]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
Hey buddies Gary and nltsaved, we are at same sides...
For some of us who were introduced to sexual world at very early age I think that some things were simply imprinted and it is impossible to avoid some negative effects - here I think more about some fantasies and same sex attraction and so on. I'm not sure about shame, I don't have it when I need to relieve myself, I thnik it is normal and completely biologically and physiologically conditioned need and that is. But I know that my mum was very against it and I as boy have fight about it, at the end I've decided to not talk about it, her talking was more than distrurbing for me frown
She talked from puritan point of view and I as boy thought how insane that is so I closed myself completely for future talks, must say that I've felt isolated and lonely...

Pero




As a kid, I was compulsive about MB at age 7 or 8 and onward. And hey! I did not even hit puberty till I was 15.5....the last one in my graduating class of 356.

Considering how much time at ages 8-10 I spent covering-up physical evidence of anal rape, MB was pretty background in my life and was some sort of trauma-reaction that I still have not figured-out.
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#410709 - 09/20/12 03:09 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
I find it amazing that you mentioned that you "occasionally have sex with a woman" and here I am assuming that you are not married, and then you mention that you feel guilty masturbating, and the masturbation is labelled as sin. Weird? So it is ok to sleep around but don't spank the monkey.

This however is not the Question that you asked.
I think Traveller has the right answer if there is is such a thing as right in this situation.
I used to spank the monkey as often as I could, this coupled with the porn was my best relationship.
Gary All I can say is the fact that you are asking questions like this means that you are HEALING, you are moving forward, questioning behaviours and checking in to see what is and what isn't normal.
This is, believe it or not, good progress.

Don't be put off by silly arguments, or side tracked by religious discussions. My theory is that if it helps you, put it out there.
Who are we to question whether this or that technique worked or didn't.
We are all different, we all have our own way of healing, don't knock the other guys method, after all the ultimate goal is healthy functioning men, and if following Christ works then it works.

Heal well and keep searching
Martin
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#410711 - 09/20/12 03:57 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3566
Loc: South-East Europe
I guess and I know that some men do it in marriage or in relationship (me), we are doing it and there is no need for denial smile
Some men have reason for such actions (problems in marriage/relationships/health issues and many more...) some men (me) just like to have some comfort and part of intimacy held without sharing - it can hurt sometimes and I'm more than fragile there.
Like Martin has said it is good to talk about it no matter on differences.
It is interesting Gary for me that you've said that you are feeling ashamed like kid. For me the first association that comes to such picture is adults talking with deprecation to small kid about some terrible things (masturbation). Could it be that you have been treated like that in your childhood and you just relive same emotions while you do it?
Believe it or not there are many things like such talks that could be traumatic for child leaving some scars...
Just my 2 cents.

Pero
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#410713 - 09/20/12 05:21 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
The only thing my father ever said to me about it is that its "a waste of time"
_________________________
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
And I have become comfortably numb."
Pink Floyd

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#410716 - 09/20/12 07:23 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
I'm sorry to see, Garydosh, than the stupid, simplistic SIN bomb partially hijacked this thread. And it made me mad as hell...nor do I think I'd be a responsible member of this community if I didn't confront that kind of irresponsible, inflammatory comment. It was a cruel, deliberately hurtful, triggering remark.

Though I'll admit it's a perfect illustration of the judgment heaped on the rest of us by those who don't have the courage to face, let alone ever share, their own doubts or shortcomings, instead casting down "wisdom" from their ivory fucking towers. With apologies to Robbie Brown, who I've come to dearly love for his courage, it also illustrates yet another reason why you'll never see me in a church.

I don't think the poster intended it, but that kind of response goes a long way (pun intended) towards answering your question on why jacking off = shame.

Well, hell yes, pantyhose definitely in a knot. Now it's gonna take me all day to untangle. Hate that.

Perhaps tags like font size="monsterous" and/or font color="red" would have been appropriate. Horns? >;-) Jus' a thot...

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#410721 - 09/20/12 09:03 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145
Gary,
I am not thrilled by the religious undertone this thread has taken on either. I can say that I do attend church every sunday and my family is there at least three times a week with youth groups and such. I would pay no mind to the "SIN" remark that was cast out. I kind of feel it was a cheap shot. In my journey through life I have found that faith has caused me more harm than good while trying to reconcile with my abuse. I fear that throwing the word SIN around can negatively impact an individuals progress and possibly cause one to regress.

Now with that said, I think the negative feelings you may be having may be caused by the view many have towards sex in general. In my life I realize that I have attatched filth and SIN and a whole slew of other negative adjectives to anything of a sexual nature to include MB. So this could be why the guilt creaps in. I was taught at a young age that unpure thoughts were just as sinful as the act itself. As an adult it has taken much time for me to realize that perhaps this is just human behavior and I have nothing to feel guilty about. I think that as children grow up and listen to adults that should be wise and nurturing, we digest all they say and keep it burried deep witin our minds. As adults these things that were told to us creap back in and we apply those things to who we are as adults. Its our job to filter through the BS.

Ok so just my thoughts. sorry if it doesnt make sense, the whole sin part set me off.....

Be well
-Jay-
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#410722 - 09/20/12 09:31 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1099
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Funny how everyone's opinion is not respected here (especially when it IS solicited). Sigh...

I belong to SA (sekaholics anon). SA is 12-step and sobriety does not permit MB. I have been a MB, porn, etc etc etc seks addict since I was 13. MB is my "gateway" drug.

The longest I have ever gone without MB is 3 1/2 months. That was a year ago. It was the best I had felt in a long time. Stress and relational issues (anger) with my wife lead me to fall back into my drug (and worse things).

I also believe that MB is a sin, but that God's grace forgives when I confess. And I confess often...
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#410723 - 09/20/12 09:31 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
I think that we come here for support yes. We also, when a question is posed, may not always hear what we want to hear. I think maybe the mind set of the person when they are masterbating may be where the sin comes in. The impure thoughts that invite lust into your mind an thinking about fornication. With that out of the way.
I would do it alot when I was younger and it it seemed to taper off the older I got. Now it is very rare. I can't even remember the last time I did. When I did do it then usually I was watching porn. I think that when the Lord sanctified me that this urge was taken from me. Let's be honest here, all guys have done it and more than not are still doing it. But and I say but when the lustful thought enters your mind then it is sin. Make no mistake about it. The bible is clear on it. It may not say MB is wrong but what is in your mind when you are doing it could be the sin. May not be what you wanted to hear bro but it is what I can share. I am in no way judging you because that is wrong too. As u said we all have done it or still do it.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410724 - 09/20/12 09:34 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 844
Loc: Northeast, USA
Originally Posted By: Garydosh
My question is why do I as a CSA survivor still feel guilty about it?


Good question and I'm glad you asked it Gary. I would say that the sense of shame, which I have no shortage of and which goes along with having been sexually abused, gets mixed in/confused with the "notion" in our society that MB is a form of sexual deviance, thereby causing an increased sense of guilt when we engage in MB activities. By "sexual deviance" I guess I mean any sexual behaviors that don't measure up to the sexual ideal (whatever that is). And then, in my case, you can add to this self-doubt and low self-esteem which makes it even more likely experience guild after MB.

When looked at from a "reliving of the experience of sexual abuse" perspective, which, if you think about similarity of the feelings that come up during and after MBing and those associated with sexual abuse, it can be thought of like that, you can say that MB is a compulsion rather than a choice. And since it is a compulsion there is no choice, therefore there should be no guilt (radical point of view I guess). When looked at from this deterministic perspective, we are still driven by our past, repeating the patterns that exist within us since the abuse.

Caz



Edited by Casmir213 (09/20/12 09:57 AM)
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#410726 - 09/20/12 10:06 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
On our journey toward healing, as we learn to accept ourselves and to build a positive life with decent and functioning relationships, we have to have sensible boundaries, common-sense rules based on things that make sense.

Rule 1. Do no harm, including to yourself. We have to protect ourselves so that we're physically and emotionally safe.

Rule 2. Accept the things that do no harm, and reject the things that put us in danger or hurt us or others.

These rules are very important. We don't need moral absolutism in which sin is everywhere, and based on... what? Someone's notions of good and evil? That turns our world into an arbitrary mess. Why is masturbation wrong? It feels good. Let's admit that. It can be relaxing. It doesn't hurt anyone, at least not intrinsically. And it's safe. You can't get a disease. You're not at risk. The only reason it's a "sin" is that it feels good and it involves the sexual organ.

Of course, each of us has our own context, our own history, and masturbation may trigger us in different ways. But speaking as someone who hid his abuse for decades out of misguided shame and guilt, I reject EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that labels natural sexuality as bad, sinful, evil, shameful or whatever. When I say "natural," I mean gayness, transgender, straightness, masturbation, whatever. I don't care. As long as someone is not being hurt, as long as those involved are consenting adults I COULD NOT POSSIBLY CARE LESS. And I'll defend anyone's right to be who they are and to live free of shame and without apology to ANY BIGOTS! PERIOD!

It's like racism. I won't stand for it or let it go unanswered.

I'm probably the least stereotypical guy who would say this. I'm six four, 250 pounds white guy from the mountain west. I hunt and love my rifles. I fish, although not as often as I would like. I'm married and a father. But... I find myself tied with a strong sense of humanity to everybody else on this earth, and I would gladly fight to the death for these principles, for freedom and equality. I love my country, which was founded on the ideals of liberty and equality, and I'll be damned before I.... Oh hell, I'm getting off on a tangent.

So as for the question that started this thread, let me say that I can understand how shame can be such a welcome/hated feeling that's attached to your own expression of your sexuality. I say welcome, because I've started to feel lately that we do the things we do because we choose to... even when we feel like we don't. I should temper that by saying that some choices are made somewhat on the subconscious level. But it's important for us to own those choices. At least it's important for me. When I understood that I chose to feel guilty and ashamed for masturbating, because believe me, I did. And yet, I was in a marriage that I had completely screwed up in like 30 different ways, and my spouse didn't feel comfortable or safe having sex with me. And I wanted an orgasm. Hell, that's no so bad. It's a hell of a lot better to do that then have a damn affair!

And that's when I realized that, hey, as long as I was OK with it, as long as I understood and chose to masturbate, I didn't have to choose to be ashamed.

I think that one of the more damaging things that I took from my abuse as a kid was that I was dirty, shameful and bad... and I used everything possible in my life to reinforce that feeling. Everything. Including masturbation. And often in the depths of my depressions, I'd think, Why try? There's no use. I'm a filthy person. I just want to masturbate. I just want to fuck. I'm bad anyway. I'm doomed anyway. Why not just give into the shame and humiliation.

So this is my long and windy way of saying that the idea that masturbating is "sin" is actually incredibly destructive. It makes us lose focus on those rules I talked about above. Masturbating isn't bad, because it doesn't hurt anyone and it's safe. If, in the context of your life, masturbating does hurt someone--like your spouse who you cheated on--then you've got to bring BOTH of you along to a point where you can BOTH express your sexuality in healthy and positive ways.

But there's nothing intrinsically bad about masturbating.

Good luck, brother. Thanks for bringing up this topic. Too bad some people can't handle it. Keep healing. Keep seeking peace.

Bob

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#410735 - 09/20/12 10:54 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
THIS IS A FORUM FOR RECOVERY FROM CHILDHOOD SEXUAL ABUSE AND MOLESTATION - NOT A FORUM FOR RELIGIOUS DEBATE OR DISCUSSION OR FOR PASSING JUDGMENT ON OTHERS BASED ON A PERSONAL RELIGIOUS BELIEF.

I AM HERE TO FIND SUPPORT, AND TO SUPPORT YOU. I EXPECT THE SAME FROM OTHERS WHEN I AM HERE.

RELIGIOUS JUDGMENTS SHOULD BE KEPT OUT OF SUCH HORRIFICALLY SENSITIVE TOPICS WHERE THERE IS TREMENDOUS SHAME ALREADY.

that is all.

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410739 - 09/20/12 11:08 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
If people can post about there religious disbelief then believers can post about their belief. SIMPLE.
I don't know why NLT felt led to say what he did but it did not seem like he attacked anyone. He just said in his opinion it was sin. There were opinions asked or. Then people start seeming to wanna pack up like coyotes and start saying " how dare you share your opinion". Really ? Wow. There was no personal attack that I seen from anyone about their spiritual belief.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410740 - 09/20/12 11:09 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
NO ONE JUDGED ANYONE. JUST SHARED THEIR OPINION AND BELIEF.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410743 - 09/20/12 11:20 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Actually, country, someone was judged. This post started with a question, why do I feel guilty when I masturbate? And then nltsaved said he knew it wouldn't be popular but he knew why... sin....

That's how this thread started. And let me tell you it's damn tiring when some Christians (and yes, I'm a Christian) act like they're the put-upon martyrs of the world. It's literally exhausting. Take this for example. You've got a bunch of guys dealing with issues of shame and guilt tied to the fact that they were FUCKED AND RAPED as children or as adults but AGAINST THEIR WILL! And then, as we're talking about the guilt and self-blame that we feel, as we try to sort through our feelings to see where we stand and how we can be decent and good men in our lives, some asshole walks into the room and drops this "sin" bomb and points at the dude who just asked a question that many of us have wondered about. Wait. That's not an example of what might have happened. That's exactly WHAT happened!

You don't find that offensive? You should. You're a good man. I see your posts. I can tell what you're like. You're a good person who's trying to find his way forward. We all are. You know as well as I do that this is a hard road, a struggle.

So please don't try to whitewash the record that all of us can see. Maybe nlt is having a bad day. I can understand that. I have bad days sometimes. And I'm certainly willing to look past it if he opens up and actually tries to heal himself. But I'm not going to act like what he wrote was just... expressing an opinion. He wasn't. He was assigning shame in response to an honest question. And that's bogus.

Bob

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#410745 - 09/20/12 11:27 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Country]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Country
NO ONE JUDGED ANYONE. JUST SHARED THEIR OPINION AND BELIEF.


Dictionary definition of judgment: (dictionary.com)
1
a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion
b : an opinion so pronounced

You are NOT the authority of "moral values".

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410746 - 09/20/12 11:29 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
It is a very hard road Robert. I appreciate every one here. There are gonna be times we disagree. I stand in no judgement of anyone here. I have been a low down no good nothing for most of my life. Still would be probably. I hate this all started. But I am kinda feeling like this happened for a reason. I hate that what he said incited all of this. I am sure or hope he didn't try to offend. I hold no ill will towards anyone here for their beliefs. But I am a Christian before I am anything and I hope others can respect that. I seen the posts and seen what was written. It didn't seem as bad as some are leading on to me. But I am not Gary and that is what we all need to thing of is the person we are replying to. If I offended by what I said I didn't mean to as I hope it didn't seem offensive.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410748 - 09/20/12 11:39 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Magellan Offline
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Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
I've seen this happen too many times on this board - someone drops in and makes some religious snap judgment "sin" and all hell breaks loose.

Y'all can see it. It happens every fucking time. Every. Fucking. Time.

So you know this, and you see it. Even knowing this and being aware of it, you'll go on right ahead and do it anyway. And when the flames and anger erupts (like is inevitable), you throw up your hands and wonder why? Your response makes absolutely no sense.

How about taking the responsible route, understand that these things only add fuel to a raging fire of shame for many, and withhold your personal judgments?

Why intentionally incite?
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410751 - 09/20/12 11:45 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
The guy sai he thought it was a sin. If you don't think it is then ok. If Gary didn't think he was sinning then ok. It is a null point. But to go on a tyrant like this is what's disturbing. Geez. I am done with this. And Goary I hope what I said didn't offend you. That was not my intent anyway. Magellan none of the comments or beliefs where directed at you. So why u mad and jumping in here like this bashing?
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410753 - 09/20/12 11:49 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Magellan Offline
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Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
I'm angry because calling someone a sinner *is* a judgment, *and* INFLICTS *****SHAME*****

We're all trying to RECOVER from SHAME. Making comments like "its a sin" provokes feelings of shame and self pity in many. That's what us CSA survivors do to ourselves.

How can you not see this simple truth?

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410755 - 09/20/12 11:52 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
peroperic2009 Offline
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Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3566
Loc: South-East Europe
Guys this talk escalated beyond common sense, may I suggest everybody to calm down and move those hurtful feelings from public domain because it affects us all frown ?
Please remember that some things trigger some negative feelings and now negative energy is escalating, please step back, I'm sure tomorrow this discussion will seems much lighter!
_________________________
My story

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#410756 - 09/20/12 12:03 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Well you ain't talking to or about me then Magellan cause I didn't call anyone a sinner.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410783 - 09/20/12 01:58 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2568
As a CSA survivor I think for me the reason I feel bad and shameful over the whole MB issue is that the abuse left me feeling dirty and used. It left me with all manner of wounded feelings and emotions.

Add to that, for me I struggle to not have all manner of degrading thoughts/feelings/fantasies go through my mind when the MB ensues. So when it's all over, I feel those dirty/wounded/shameful feelings again.

Maybe it ties in directly to the fact that most of us at some point feel we were at fault for the abuse or that we somehow caused it?

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#410785 - 09/20/12 02:09 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 575
Loc: VA
In olden times, some people with unhealthy attitudes toward the human body used to refer to masturbation as "self-abuse." To those who know what sexual "abuse" is, that sounds ridiculous. We might feel lonely sometimes when we have to yank our own crank, but the experience (IMHO) is definitely not abusive. Peace!

John

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#410789 - 09/20/12 02:17 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
Guys, guys, guys.......can we settle down and try to get along?

1) I did not ask anyone for their OPINION of MB.
2) However, anyone posting here is free to express their views, so long as its done in a respectful, non-judgemental manner.
3) Unfortunately, NLTsaved chose to express his view in a disrespectful, judgemental manner.
4) This does not mean that all religious people share that view, or share that attutude.
5) Dr. James Dobson, noted fundamentalist leader, known for his anti-gay activism, is on record as having said that "the bible is silent on this matter (MB)" and that he "doesn't think its much of an issue with God" (From Dobson's book: "Preparing for Adolescence").
6) I'm a 55 year old man with ten children, but no sex partner. If I need to relieve myself a couple of times a week to alleviate sexual tension, I will. If I need to deal with guilt and shame, I will. If I need to deal with sin, I will. Now lets move on gentlemen.

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#410795 - 09/20/12 02:53 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by ModTeam (05/02/13 01:36 PM)

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#410797 - 09/20/12 03:06 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
cant_remember Offline
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Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 997
As long as we don't do it too often; as long as it's not compulsive.

I've set up site blockers on my computer so that I get one hour of porn access per day, and only between 10 PM and 1 AM. That way, it doesn't interfere with my day.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#410801 - 09/20/12 03:33 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
ig3 Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 54
I don't believe it is a sin, I just wanted to point out that even those who do and are conservative about it like the catholic church, have a moderate stance:

"To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability".

From the Catechism of the Catholich Church.

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#410805 - 09/20/12 03:46 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
GoHomeAgain Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 110
Loc: Pennsylvania
How 'bout them Yankees?
_________________________
Humble Alumnus of WoR Dahlonega 2011.

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#410814 - 09/20/12 04:14 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
cant_remember Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 997
Jeter is a hits machine but they're only 0.5 games ahead of Baltimore.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#410815 - 09/20/12 04:19 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
hahaha..Go Red Sox...We suck this year
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410817 - 09/20/12 04:20 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
GoHomeAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 110
Loc: Pennsylvania
Don't feel bad... I'm a Phillies fan...
_________________________
Humble Alumnus of WoR Dahlonega 2011.

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#410823 - 09/20/12 04:27 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
monkey Offline


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 53
Loc: IL
I could have easily asked this same question and my feelings toward it are about the same as Garydosh. What he asked is what I have questioned for a looooong time. Thanks to those that gave positive thoughts and explanations. Just talking about any issue I think is a step forward to healing. Don't be silenced on any of it. We should be done with the secrecy.
As for me, I am married, yet I still have that habit of masturbation. I guess I contribute it to the effects of the abuse. Currently having some marital issues at the same time I am trying to go through this healing journey. Yea......it is hell. So maybe I am using masturbation as an outlet of some sorts. Keep the dialog going. We are here for each other to support and sort out these problems. I admire all of you men!!
_________________________
Monkey(Mark)
The Flower Unfolding

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#410841 - 09/20/12 05:56 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Anomalous Offline
Greeter Coordinator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 1334
Hi Gary,

When I read your question I immediately thought of the things we were taught - things others have already stated.

We were taught that masturbation was something one did to themselves, that it was self abuse, and that only those "sick in the head" did such things.

My former T asked me about masturbation one day and I reiterated those things to him. He was taken aback by the veracity with which I said those statements. He then asked me who told me such things.

The fact is, masturbation, when not done compulisively or in a manner harmful (ie. being late to work, taking time out of your work day, etc.) is healthy. Studies show that males between the ages of 15 - 50 who masturbate at least 5 times a week have a lower incidence of prostate cancer.

I was once friends with someone who started shaming her son for masturbating. He would wait until he was taking a shower, a very appropriate place. But she made him feel ashamed of his body and his budding sexuality. We had a discussion about that and her attitude was "I don't like it." I am sorry she ever said such things to her son.

The only things we were taught about sex in the house in which I lived was that there was only one reason for sexual activity - procreation. If one was not going to procreate, or could not procreate, then one should abstain. Any thoughts or deeds were dirty and "evidence" of a diseased mind.

Perhaps you, too, were given such messages and you were made to feel ashamed of yourself. I hope you never had such things said to you. But it might be the genesis of the shame you are feeling.

There isn't anything inherently unhealthy, physically or mentally, about masturbation. Nor does it matter if one is in a relationship. Being in a relationship is not contrary to masturbating, though if one is not getting their needs met, then there needs to be some discussion with one's partner.

Before you masturbate again, ask yourself a few questions:

1. Was I given negative messages about sex/ sexuality?

2. Was I given messages that made me ashamed of my body?

3. Was I given messages that made me feel ashamed of having a biological need?

Think about the messages you were given. If they were negative messages, try to replace them with facts and truth.

Then meet your needs and try to enjoy the experience, during and after.




Anomalous
_________________________
Acceptance on someone else's terms is worse than rejection.

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#410842 - 09/20/12 05:59 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Anomalous]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
Oh shit!

I need to masturbate more!

Originally Posted By: Anomalous
Hi Gary,

...Studies show that males between the ages of 15 - 50 who masturbate at least 5 times a week have a lower incidence of prostate cancer.....


Anomalous


***and excellent advice at the end of your note too, Anomalous. Clarity of purpose when masturbating will keep you from falling onto the rocks of unhealthy masturbation.


Edited by Magellan (09/20/12 06:01 PM)
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410844 - 09/20/12 06:02 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
I did it enough when I was younger to last a lifetime then..ha
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410847 - 09/20/12 06:26 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 844
Loc: Northeast, USA
Originally Posted By: JustScott
Add to that, for me I struggle to not have all manner of degrading thoughts/feelings/fantasies go through my mind when the MB ensues. So when it's all over, I feel those dirty/wounded/shameful feelings again.

Maybe it ties in directly to the fact that most of us at some point feel we were at fault for the abuse or that we somehow caused it?


I think so Scott. The feelings (shame and blame) associated with MBing are as natural and as a part of me as is my own identity. Recovery from MBing in this way is a lifelong process me thinks. Akin to an addiction. I really don't think I'll ever really be rid of that compulsion. If I do recover and develop some sort of "normal" sex life, they'll most likely be that compulsion lying just beneathe the surface somewhere.

Caz
_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#410886 - 09/20/12 10:35 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Casmir213]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10948
Loc: Denver, CO
Gents, I posted this question in another perspective a while back, right here, and got some interesting responses. See what you think.
_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#410900 - 09/20/12 11:40 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
removed per user


Edited by ModTeam (05/02/13 01:36 PM)

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#410926 - 09/21/12 08:20 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: FormerTexan]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 844
Loc: Northeast, USA
Thanks for the info Andy

Caz
_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#410931 - 09/21/12 09:02 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
DannyT Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 402
Hi guys,

I'm really surprised by the weird tension in this thread, so in the interest of unravelling a bit of it, here's what I see:

1. A question was asked, openly looking for answers: But when I need to relieve myself I feel like a little kid, ashamed of what I'm doing. Any ideas what thats all about?

2. One of us, trying to engage, openly answered the open question with his honest opinion "Sin." Then said take it or leave it, it's my 2 cents.

3. People began to react to the implications. And then the judgments started. Suddenly nitsaved is the icon of irresponsible religion mongering instead of the one who gave us worthy response. If you think about it calmly, sin could very well be a reason why someone would have shame over masturbation. That fact doesn't mean that sin is Garydosh's issue, but it sure is a worthy part of the general answer to the question.

4. As members of this group, we need to be aware of the way triggers work and realize that we can't control being triggered by trying to pre-censor other members of the group. We can't read each others' minds, so we can't be perfect in our communication. That means we need to watch our reactivity and ask questions before presuming someone means the thing we're upsetting ourselves about. For example, someone might've asked, "Are you really saying that all masturbators are going to hell?" And the response to this would have taken the thread in an interesting direction. I'm now picturing an afterlife support group of people burning in the firey furnace and sharing their regrets.

5. On the other hand the whole conversation is on track isn't it? After all, masturbation is a cultural shame in this country and the history is probably puritan and involves a lot of censorship.

I hope this is helpful,

Danny

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#410933 - 09/21/12 09:59 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Hey all,

I'd like to chime in again on threads, back-and-forth and tolerance.

I think anyone who read over my posts, as I did, probably saw that I reacted to... oh about 50 triggers or so. I think others might say about the same. But I want to be perfectly clear that while I'll always stand up to what I see as intolerance, I'll never write off an individual. It's like disciplining your kids. Focus on the problematic thing they did, not the person who did it. All of us here... even people who snipe occasionally and then vanish... are here for a reason, on the road to healing. It's a strange and curious road. And it doesn't always go in a straight line. But I trust the road that I'm on, and even when I have reactions like I have had the past couple days... well, I think that ultimately those reactions although painful have been good for me.

And so I hope nobody takes anything I wrote personally. I appreciate all of you, and I respect your processes.

That said... I've also been thinking about why masturbation is such a touchy subject for us. I was abused before puberty, and was exposed to some shitty stuff after puberty. And for me, I find that unless I make a conscious decision I will literally masturbate every time other stuff in my life grinds to a pause... and if I'm alone. I often think of that feeling I get before I masturbate as "bored." I talked to my therapist about this. She suggested I think about and write down the feelings and impressions I get when I think of boredom. What other experiences I associate with boredom, which is a feeling that is sometimes linked to dissociation. Plus, sometimes kids who were abused just have a heightened sexuality. Everyone who's seen a therapist has probably heard that drill....

Anyway, thanks for riding this rough trail, guys.

Bob

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#410936 - 09/21/12 10:54 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
I'm too busy masturbating to reply to this thread - I don't want prostate cancer!...


.... joking aside ...

My apologies to anyone who was triggered by my using my voice regarding religious judgments. Religious dogmatism is a huge trigger for me - I'm one of millions of people victimized by the "church". So, yeah - religious dogmatism, I think - is dangerous.

Others have alluded to it, why masturbation is such a hot topic, I think it is an after effect of the puritanism (victorian era) in the US from 100+ years ago. Strict religious adherence of sexual expression limited to procreation.

Culturally, we're still entrapped in this mode of thinking - that sexual expression and masturbation are inherently wrong and shameful acts if they don't lead to procreation. The resultant repression and suppression and shame disallows us to TALK about these things, and in this SILENCE - ABUSE can happen.

This is why I think religious dogmatism is dangerous... the result of religious dogmatism in a culture leads to a culture where abuse is allowed to thrive in an atmosphere of SHAME and SILENCE. This is classic Psychology 101 - when you repress and suppress, dysfunction ensues.

For those of you who were triggered by my surprising response earlier in this thread, I apologize. It wasn't aimed at you, and I trust that you know that.

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410938 - 09/21/12 11:07 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
**trigger warning** - Do not read if you've had MB addiction issues!!


Something tells me that I should share this experience. As I said earlier, I grew up severely repressed (fundamental christianity) and was denied opportunity to explore my own body without incredible shame. I worked hard at letting all the shame go and was pretty good about it until I was 30 or so.

I met a guy, we became really good friends - best friends - and we became intimate with each other. He identifies as straight, I told him I was mostly gay. One evening when we were both tipsy, he asked if I ever jerked off with another guy. I was surprised to hear him ask. Well, one thing led to another and we jerked off together.

That's not the exciting part. Here's the exciting part ...

When he saw that I was racing to orgasm, he asked me why? I said "isn't that the point?" He said "NO!!" I was puzzled. Then he requested that we take our time. I was pretty stoked about that, so I relented.

After about an hour, something happened to my body that I'll do the best to explain. After coming close several times and stopping, and doing that for a long time, I suddenly found my body communicating to me. It was telling me "thank you". It was as if my body had its own likes and dislikes (aside from my own thinking), and was communicating to me in subtle ways where to move, where to touch, and linger.

It was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. My friend taught me how to learn about my body, how to honor my body, how to love my body, how to start loving myself. My friend taught me to take my time, enjoy my time, enjoy my presence, and enjoy my body. My friend taught me to let go of the moment, to stop thinking, to embrace Love for myself. Yes, all in the act of masturbating.

It was because of that experience that I learned that I can have a relationship with my body. That my body has needs, that my body has wants and desires, that my body knows how to communicate those needs and desires, and that I need to be still and take my time and be silent and listen to it.

I learned this because of masturbation. And I am so forever grateful for that experience.

So, no, I've never had addiction issues with masturbation or porn. I do it when I need the release, and up until that experience with my friend, it was a quick dump and go. But now, occassionally, I'll take my time, to love my body, and to listen to my body, and to be in commune with it.

It's a gift that we can give to ourselves when wielded with the respect and love that it deserves.

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410959 - 09/21/12 01:34 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
No shit, Magellan. That's a cool story. A surprising story. But a good one. Thank you. Bob

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#410966 - 09/21/12 01:51 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
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Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
removed per user



Edited by ModTeam (05/02/13 01:35 PM)

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#410971 - 09/21/12 02:14 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
The bottom line is that we , even the Christians, sin. That is a fact. We are no better than anyone just because we believe. In our beliefs we do believe that sin is wrong. But no sin is any greater than another except blasphemy. What was sai yesterday by myself is my beliefs as a Christian and I will stand behind my beliefs. The discussion of religion was already going on or had been brought into the post when I seen it. I stated my belief on it and said that I wasn't sure if MB is a sin but from MY Christian belief that lust in the mind is sin. But it is no worse sin than judging or than murder. Sin is sin in my opinion and from what I have read and been told by my pastor. I do not think the bible addresses MB. I am not sure on that tho. If you are not a believer then someone saying it is a sin should not have any affect on you. That also is just my opinion. I will always stand up for my faith when I see it is being spoken about. I think as CSA survivors that most of us have issues with MB or did at one point and time. I mean can u blame us? We were mostly raise up in sexual environments.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410972 - 09/21/12 02:22 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Country]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10948
Loc: Denver, CO
"My problem with the whole sin thing is, what are we supposed to do with that?"

That was my original dilemma for a very long time, regarding masturbation. Add to this the effects of abuse and the problem feels multiplied. I consider myself to walk a decent spiritual life, though admittedly there is always room to better myself. I dare not ever say I've arrived in this department.
_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#410974 - 09/21/12 02:31 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Good question Texan. I don't think there is an easy answer for that. I guess it is on the person and their own convictions to deal with it. I would think, now since I am recovering from CSA, that if MB made me feel bad then I wouldn't do it. In my own situation tho, every since I have been sanctified that I have not had the urge to do alot of things I did before. That is just me and my situation tho. Just because a Christian labelled something as sin don't mean you are a bad person because rest assure that Christians sin too. Now some people here don't believe in sin and that is their right and I still respect them.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410982 - 09/21/12 06:00 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Country]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10948
Loc: Denver, CO
Country, I am interested in your take on my original question located here. Being unmarried, this thought has crossed my mind over the years.
_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#410983 - 09/21/12 06:41 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
I will read it Texan and get back with you in a minute. Thanks for asking for my opinion.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410985 - 09/21/12 07:31 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Ok I read the article and it is a tough subject to answer for someone else Texan. I don't know your thoughts and things like that. As far as my convictions and my opinion which don't really mean a whole lot, then I would have to say Romans 13:14 is a clear answer. Now as I stated before, as far as I know the bible doesn't really address MB directly. It does however say to keep your thoughts pure. I can also tell you at work today it was a stressful day and inreally wanted to punch someone so I need alot more work.. There are alot of things that are not addressed directly in the bible. Like this, tatoos is not clearly addressed in the Old Testament, and i am going off my memory here so i may be off a little, it says not to mark your body but at tht time thy were taking brandings to show allegiance i believe.. My pastor , a man i trust said he disnt think it was a sin and said that on things that are not clearly addressed that it needs prayer for Gods guidance.. So I guess it may be left up to the person and their own convictions. I have heard people say that my sins are forgiven if I ask God for forgiveness and that is true but also god knows a persons heart also. I also believe that you must be saved and trying to live by Gods word for that forgiveness to happen by just asking do it. There are several people who say they are religious but go out getting wasted and then pass the offering plate on Sundays. I don't want to be like that. I want to live for the One who died for me. When I was sanctified and the Holy Spirit starting guiding me then I lost most of my urge to sin. Such as getting drunk and gambling and porn. Alot of people try to justify sin to make themselves feel better. I can put dog collar on a cat an make it kinda look like a dog but it dont make it a dog..I use I be like that. I say live by your convictions but if someone is not truly saved then their convictions may be off a bit. This is all just my opinion, but there will be alot of good people that hear " depart from me for I never knew you". Since I have been sanctified I have had no urge to MB. I just know for me I think it would be a sin. I can't speak for you or I can't tell any man that if he MB's it is a sin. I hate that I or we hijacked Gary's thread. I hope he got the answer he needed. I really wish NLT would back up why he said it was sin to MB. He probably knows more of the bible than me. Or JustScott as I think he knows more than me about it and is better at getting his point across. I was an adulterer and a drunkard. You may not agree with me on this and that is totally fine, to each their own. But that is my take on it. I hope there aren't too many typos. These dang keys on the iPhone are too small for me. Take care Texan
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410997 - 09/21/12 08:22 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Alao alot of christians have a hard time doing this, me included

Consider everyone as equal and donít think that youíre better than anyone else. Instead associate with people with no status. Rom. 12:16
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410998 - 09/21/12 08:46 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10948
Loc: Denver, CO
Country, it's alright if we have disagreement, and some of your points I find agreeable. As for "Consider everyone as equal and donít think that youíre better than anyone else," I think if we all remember this point in the survivor perspective, we would also see ourselves as no worse than anyone else. It took me a long time to stop minimizing my abuse compared to others (in other words they had it worse than me, I should just stop complaining about it, for example). I hope that makes sense.
_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#411007 - 09/21/12 10:24 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Yeah it makes sense Texan
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#411060 - 09/22/12 01:31 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Country]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
I have stayed away from the topic because I do not feel the need to defend myself . I do however want to clarify that I cast Judgment on no one . I did not say you are going to hell or this or that I simply stated that I thought sin was the culprit of guilt. guilt is a built in mechanism in my OPINION It is Gods warning system that the laws that he has place on everyone mans heart are not in line . Some is pushed on people to break them down and I understand that . I will not comment on what people have said about me and accused me of this or that for it is irrelevant , for God is my judge I let no man condemn me for there is no condemnation for those who love God and are called according to his good and perfect will. Not putting myself above anyone or anything just confident in what I believe that is all nothing more or nothing less.


I wrote about this a long time ago in the is masturbation a sin in the spirituality forum , and as you can tell there was compassion there was a humbling of myself so this is something that you can go take a peak at if you want. Do not go there and read it though if it is going to trigger you or cause you to act irrational . I learned a long time ago here not to react out of emotion I have given it some time and some days to even post , let the calm come in and I to have flew things out there that i could not take back and as a result I have had some good relationships formed here on the board . Because of learning and growth


This is something I wrote a couple of years ago I went to it and it was not there so went to edit it and suddenly it appeared again but anyway there it is
My take on Sin and masturbation


Here is another link in the Is masturbation a sin topic
that I wrote in April in another forum that had this same topic even though this was not the were I thought this topic would go it has so I will at least elaborate on my thoughts if you are willing to listen

My post in another forum on masturbation being sin

Might I add that just because it is my belief that something is sin does not make me blameless or above measure because the bible says we ALL sin and fall short. Just no that i do not view myself as king ,jury,judgment sealer or anything like that I am in the same struggle as everyone else I sin just as much as the next guy . Sinner saved by grace , nothing i did would amount to a hill of beans .



Edited by nltsaved (09/22/12 02:28 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#411063 - 09/22/12 01:53 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Country]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
removed per user


Edited by ModTeam (05/02/13 01:46 PM)

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#411064 - 09/22/12 02:05 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: nltsaved]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
removed per user


Edited by ModTeam (05/02/13 01:45 PM)

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#411067 - 09/22/12 02:19 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
I stayed away because I needed to make sure I was not going to throw fuel on the fire , I can not help what people respond to I can not help how people are going to interpret what I said the way they did . It was reactions that were out of my control when I did check the thread it had Blown up there were nasty things said and raw emotion that was being spewed out and I was not going to get involved into that and cause further damage . If the issue was that big of a deal why would you not just send a pm and discuss it rationally but i understand everyone is in a different place in there healing and i to have blown up only to calm down reflect and approach things differently and it has allowed me to have a better understanding of people one in particular was Magellan and we discussed it in a pm and got to common ground and i am grateful for that for it allowed me to grow and become more controlled which is the approach I chose and have gotten some pms and I hold nothing against anyone for they are free to have their own opinions and i respect that everyone has a voice if it is something i disagree with you do not see me on here calling people this or that no i simply disagree and that is that . You can disagree just not be disagreeable that is how i feel . If you do not feel that , I have no problem with that .

My intent is never to harm anyone and anyone one who knows me on here should have picked that up . All one needs to do is read my post on here and you will find that I care deeply for people on here and if they disagree with me on anything that is find and dandy with me they have that right they have that option . I always say if my God allows me to have free will than I extend that to anyone I do not shove this down anyone's throat. I never say it is this or nothing I simply state my opinion and there is nothing wrong with that and how do you no if i did not pm people in this process ? It was all emotion I do care for people but I also no when saying nothing is better than speaking . Sometimes saying nothing is better because if i respond in the same tones what is that accomplishing besides more hatred and discord .


Edited by nltsaved (09/22/12 02:20 PM)
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#411069 - 09/22/12 02:26 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: DannyT]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
Originally Posted By: DannyT
Hi guys,

I'm really surprised by the weird tension in this thread, so in the interest of unravelling a bit of it, here's what I see:

1. A question was asked, openly looking for answers: But when I need to relieve myself I feel like a little kid, ashamed of what I'm doing. Any ideas what thats all about?

2. One of us, trying to engage, openly answered the open question with his honest opinion "Sin." Then said take it or leave it, it's my 2 cents.

3. People began to react to the implications. And then the judgments started. Suddenly nitsaved is the icon of irresponsible religion mongering instead of the one who gave us worthy response. If you think about it calmly, sin could very well be a reason why someone would have shame over masturbation. That fact doesn't mean that sin is Garydosh's issue, but it sure is a worthy part of the general answer to the question.

4. As members of this group, we need to be aware of the way triggers work and realize that we can't control being triggered by trying to pre-censor other members of the group. We can't read each others' minds, so we can't be perfect in our communication. That means we need to watch our reactivity and ask questions before presuming someone means the thing we're upsetting ourselves about. For example, someone might've asked, "Are you really saying that all masturbators are going to hell?" And the response to this would have taken the thread in an interesting direction. I'm now picturing an afterlife support group of people burning in the firey furnace and sharing their regrets.

5. On the other hand the whole conversation is on track isn't it? After all, masturbation is a cultural shame in this country and the history is probably puritan and involves a lot of censorship.

I hope this is helpful,

Danny





I really thought this was spot on
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#411070 - 09/22/12 02:29 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1433
no one wants to harm anyone but it happens. my priest made me feel special and wanting his approval. he taught me to love the things he did to me. everyone says it is wrong. why if so wrong does it seem right? help how could he do this to us.


Edited by KMCINVA (09/22/12 02:39 PM)

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#411072 - 09/22/12 02:39 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
nltsaved,

I'm glad you came back to do some clarification.

I want to briefly clarify something as well:

Your answer
"already no this will Not be the popular answer but I call it for what it is

SIN"....

I don't see any empathy or compassion in this answer. It is short, blunt, terse, and bears no witness. There is no sharing of personal experience. There is no thoughtful reflection shared, or compassion offered. You start your answer off with "I already know this will not be popular..."

The question was asked with humility and shame and I believe a more responsible response would have been to include acknowledgement, and empathy.

You have admitted in other posts that you know religion is a hot button topic and that senses can be inflamed. Religion is a trigger point for a huge lot of us here at MS. I know that you know this. Was that not taken into consideration when answering Gary's question regarding shame? It doesn't appear so, to many of us.

This is why I responded the way I did, and I surmise why Gary responded the way he did and why many others take grievance with how the answer was submitted in the first place.

Healthy relationships, I have come to learn, require a sensitivity to the person(s) you're relating to. If you know a group of people have a sensitive trigger point around religion, perhaps a kinder way to have a relationship with that group of people is to have some sensitivity to that?

If you are in disagreement with this, that is fine. I don't take offense. But I believe that when we take other people's known behaviors and trigger points into consideration, we can be far more supportive and loving of one another in our healing journeys together.

Offered humbly,

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#411075 - 09/22/12 02:52 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
That is a huge part of the dilemma for us survivors what was done and taught to us was "right" even though it was deceitful and dishonest . These things no one should have been taught by anyone and because adults are the authority and we should be able to trust and believe what the say is true only to come to find out that what they have done is completely destroy our sense of what truth is. Just because you feel a certain way does not make it truth . You were told that this is truth and the fact that it was a false truth is why you struggle . The trust factor the feelings that went along with it , hell it does feel good so that even makes it even harder to separate these things .

How could something feel so good that it is wrong but it is in fact wrong to molest a child but as a child you do not have the capability to rationalize like an adult . The adult knows without a shadow of a doubt it is wrong but is lead and overcome by his or her own passion and lust and desires with reckless disregard for the damage that is being done.


Instead of living in a healthy environment our normal became what ever our environment dictated to us so not everyone understands why we do feel like these things might be considered "normal" because for us it was our normal .

To someone who has not experienced these traumas will not be able to understand because there "normal" did not consist of these acts.

You just have to learn to unlearn the unhealthy things and replace them with healthy things . For me unlearning was renewing my mind in Christ for others it is therapy for others it is reading and understanding the effects of abuse or all of the above . Just no that you are not alone and that you can heal it just takes a lot of work
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#411078 - 09/22/12 03:03 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Magellan]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 827
Loc: Kc,Mo
I stated that it will be unpopular because religion is a hot topic and that is why i said take it or leave it , if people chose to take it and run with it that is a choice if they would of left it than they had that option to . I gave a way out LEAVE it do not take it up if you do not want to but some people chose to Take it and do with what ever they wanted with it


If he would have came back and said hmmm maybe I do feel guilt because this is something that maybe is being revealed to me and I never thought about it that way. The thread could have gone a different direction but it went in a direction i could have not foreseen . honestly if i would have known how that answer would have turned out than of course I would have i guess explained a little more but every opinion does not have to be backed up because it offended someone. Everyone gets offended in one way or another and I can not magically no when someone is going to be offended in a way such as it went down.

There are plenty of things I disagree with and are offended by on here but hey it is their right to say those things even if i feel some are intended to do harm or get me riled up about a particular subject.

It all boils down to emotion if it was that deep a simple pm would due just fine but like i said by the time i checked the thread it was blown way up
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#411510 - 09/27/12 08:14 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
DannyT Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 402
Hi Magellan,

I've been thinking for a while about how to respond to your points:
Quote:
I want to briefly clarify something as well:

Your answer
"already no this will Not be the popular answer but I call it for what it is

SIN"....

I don't see any empathy or compassion in this answer. It is short, blunt, terse, and bears no witness. There is no sharing of personal experience. There is no thoughtful reflection shared, or compassion offered. You start your answer off with "I already know this will not be popular..."

The question was asked with humility and shame and I believe a more responsible response would have been to include acknowledgement, and empathy...

This is why I responded the way I did, and I surmise why Gary responded the way he did and why many others take grievance with how the answer was submitted in the first place.


First, let me say I respect the overall message that we should be kind to one another wholeheartedly.

However, I think there're a couple of problems with this reasoning. (I may have just uttered a trigger phrase because I've challenged an opinion, and I'm aware of that. Should I have empathetically refrained from speaking?): We're here to grow and develop through contact with each other. I don't think we serve one another by walking on tip toe around each others triggers (even if that were possible) for the following reasons: A. we'd always be second guessing ourselves and trying to please, and this is a serious problem for abuse survivors. One of our great challenges is learning to stand up for ourselves and our opinions. B. we need to learn to deal with our triggers. If the triggers aren't put out there, we don't over react to them, and we don't learn. What safer place could we have for learning to manage ourselves than here?

The bigger issue is that it is not nitsaved words that caused the reaction. The reaction comes from within the hearer. If nitsaved had reasoned things through as you suggest he would have been manipulating your triggers, essentially playing his audience. He would have potentially triggered a different, safer response that would have produced harmony rather than discord. However that would not have solved the triggering problem, as you suggest. It would simply have been a different kind of triggering. He would have triggered a happy response instead of a fraught one.

I would argue that we need to be triggered in the negative way safely in order to witness the triggering in operation, so that we can learn to diffuse it. In other words it was a good thing to have this conversation as we did. Much better than otherwise. The only sad thing would be to have anyone who was triggered think that it was nitsaved that caused the response. Our triggers are inside us. It's our healing process to become untriggered by things in general so we can move smoothly through life (again, in my opinion).

I tend to err on the side of over thinking and managing my posts. I think very carefully about how things will be received, and I work as hard as possible to make every thing safe. Much to my surprise, I've had my own share of flame responses to things I thought were totally trigger free. We really can't know each other well enough to be compassionate in the way you suggest. So I think the best approach is to be compassionate as readers of the posts and to look inward at our triggers and learn to manage them.

I hope this is helpful,

Danny

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#411513 - 09/27/12 08:52 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
To return to the original question:
Originally Posted By: Garydosh
Allright I got your attention. But lets face it, we all relieve ourselves. Its normal. Some more than others. Some are lucky enough to have regular sex partners. Some are older and the drive isn't as strong anymore. But we all do it. My question is why do I as a CSA survivor still feel guilty about it? I've weaned myself off porn for the most part. I've let go of fantasizing about my abuse and abuser. When I have sex with a woman (a rare thing)I LOVE it. But when I need to relieve myself I feel like a little kid, ashamed of what I'm doing. Any ideas what thats all about?
Gary,
The question that came to my mind is what are your thoughts during the MB? If they even flicker back to the abuse and abuser, or that type of situation (mine do at times) - then that is a possible cause for the feelings of shame. As we've seen already - there can be many other reasons - this is the one that hits me the most so this is the one I give in answer to your question. Perhaps paying mindful attention to what takes you to that place and through that place might shed light on what you're looking for.
Another possible would be the simple shame for feeling pleasure. There are MANY of us CSA survivors that felt pleasure then, and are ashamed to feel that same pleasure now.

I wish you peace and wisdom as you seek an answer for your heart.
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#411522 - 09/27/12 10:52 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1433
MarkK

Well said--no one other than us seem to understand the mix message we received as a child--it was wrong but created feelings of pleasure that we could not control. I grapple with shame and guilt as I try to heal. I see more and feel more of the abuse, but it is helping me to heal. I have many glimpses of certain people in my memories but do not know how they all play in the abuse. But I now understand the fantasizing about the abuser and abuse leads me down a path I do not want to travel--it seems I have traveled it for how long I do not know. I would let the part of me that fantasized take over and I would leave--I have cloudy memories and memories of being in places I did not understand how I got there or why I was there.

The power of the abuser and the guilt and shame and sadly that part of us that felt pleasure or special impact our lives until we get control of ourselves and understand we need to break away from the powers of the abuse and live life for who we are. We deserve to enjoy life and the pleasures it offers.

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#411523 - 09/27/12 11:05 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: DannyT]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
Thanks for your input and feedback, Danny.

Well thought out, and you took the time to think about what you were saying, and how I, and others, might receive it. You clearly took care in choosing your words, and were cautious about how it might impact others.

nltsaved's short and terse initial response exhibited none of those qualities. It was short, blunt, terse, and done without care or thoughtful reflection of sharing of experience (like yours did). This is why he got the response he did.

Huge difference between your two replies: One is far more effective and encourages thoughtful discussion, and the other simply doesn't.

As for 'triggers' in conversations - I stay away from intentionally or even knowingly triggering someone. If what I think I'm about to say might trigger someone, I'll provide ample warning, or try to word it in a way so as to make sure that those who might be triggered are acknowledged in the process. This, I believe, is the sign of healthy relating. I *am* my brother's keeper.

There's a slogan in my 12 step group: "THINK"
Is it True?
Is it Honest?
Is it Insightful?
Is it Necessary?
Is it Kind?

If "no" is one of the answers, then it probably is not prudent thing to say.

Thanks again for your contribution.

D



Originally Posted By: DannyT
Hi Magellan,

I've been thinking for a while about how to respond to your points:
Quote:
I want to briefly clarify something as well:

Your answer
"already no this will Not be the popular answer but I call it for what it is

SIN"....

I don't see any empathy or compassion in this answer. It is short, blunt, terse, and bears no witness. There is no sharing of personal experience. There is no thoughtful reflection shared, or compassion offered. You start your answer off with "I already know this will not be popular..."

The question was asked with humility and shame and I believe a more responsible response would have been to include acknowledgement, and empathy...

This is why I responded the way I did, and I surmise why Gary responded the way he did and why many others take grievance with how the answer was submitted in the first place.


First, let me say I respect the overall message that we should be kind to one another wholeheartedly.

However, I think there're a couple of problems with this reasoning. (I may have just uttered a trigger phrase because I've challenged an opinion, and I'm aware of that. Should I have empathetically refrained from speaking?): We're here to grow and develop through contact with each other. I don't think we serve one another by walking on tip toe around each others triggers (even if that were possible) for the following reasons: A. we'd always be second guessing ourselves and trying to please, and this is a serious problem for abuse survivors. One of our great challenges is learning to stand up for ourselves and our opinions. B. we need to learn to deal with our triggers. If the triggers aren't put out there, we don't over react to them, and we don't learn. What safer place could we have for learning to manage ourselves than here?

The bigger issue is that it is not nitsaved words that caused the reaction. The reaction comes from within the hearer. If nitsaved had reasoned things through as you suggest he would have been manipulating your triggers, essentially playing his audience. He would have potentially triggered a different, safer response that would have produced harmony rather than discord. However that would not have solved the triggering problem, as you suggest. It would simply have been a different kind of triggering. He would have triggered a happy response instead of a fraught one.

I would argue that we need to be triggered in the negative way safely in order to witness the triggering in operation, so that we can learn to diffuse it. In other words it was a good thing to have this conversation as we did. Much better than otherwise. The only sad thing would be to have anyone who was triggered think that it was nitsaved that caused the response. Our triggers are inside us. It's our healing process to become untriggered by things in general so we can move smoothly through life (again, in my opinion).

I tend to err on the side of over thinking and managing my posts. I think very carefully about how things will be received, and I work as hard as possible to make every thing safe. Much to my surprise, I've had my own share of flame responses to things I thought were totally trigger free. We really can't know each other well enough to be compassionate in the way you suggest. So I think the best approach is to be compassionate as readers of the posts and to look inward at our triggers and learn to manage them.

I hope this is helpful,

Danny
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#411529 - 09/27/12 11:45 AM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Hopefulone Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Ontario
I won't get into the religious part of the discussion. I am not a Christian...and I'm unwilling to get into discussions regarding SIN...I mean, way unwilling!


All men do not do it.

I, for one, do not. I have a seriously hard time being a sexual being. I've been married for 23 years, and with my wife for a total of 28 years. My issues with sexuality are pretty severe. I sometimes think she's fighting a losing cause...that since my abuse I've been programmed to be a non-sexual entity. I've just never had interest in masturbation. Sometimes, I don't even like catching a glimpse of myself while I'm urinating. I'm very black and white when it comes to EVERYTHING. I have issues with sex (healthy or unhealthy) being BAD. I somehow manage to have a healthy(ish) sex life for months at a time...but then something happens and I'm just off of it for months at a time. It's hard enough facing sex at times with my partner...I have no desire to throw self-gratification into that mix.

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#411539 - 09/27/12 12:51 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
I agree, hopefulone, that all men do not do it. I think the safer saying would be all men have done it. I do not do it anymore. I cant remember the last time I did. I also like Danny's response an appreciate his message very much. I do see magellans point as well. I think the fact that we all got thru the discussion , as troubling as it may have been , shows we are healing.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#411547 - 09/27/12 02:04 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Somebody direct me to the passages about masturbation in the bible. I found a lot about adultery, having multiple wives, about forcing rapists to marry the girl they raped, selling daughters into slavery....... But nothing on masturbation yet.
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Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#411548 - 09/27/12 02:08 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
I don't think there is anything in the bible directly about it. I may be wrong tho.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#411550 - 09/27/12 02:15 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2568
Nothing specific. Most people cover it under the thread of lust etc. There are a few other things people cover it under, but no, nothing specifically on MB.

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#411766 - 09/29/12 12:50 PM Re: All Guys Do It [Re: Jude]
ModTeam Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 689
Gentlemen,

Various viewpoints on this topic add value to the discussion, but for the sake of the original post and its intent, let's continue further points of a spiritual context in the Spirituality forum.

The topic is closed at originator request.
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