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#410578 - 09/18/12 11:29 PM grooming *TRIGGERS*
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3319
Loc: back in the USA
just read this thread about Sandusky and grooming in the news section:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=410575#Post410575

and had a weird response that didn't seem to fit there - so i'm bringing it here.

i know this is probly going to make some guys who were groomed by perps very upset. (so if you are - don't continue, please)
maybe some who were not groomed - like me - will understand what i'm saying.




when i read about the grooming techniques that Sandusky used on his boy victims, and that other perps use on theirs, i hate to admit it - but i envy those boys. i hear about the perp praising them and giving them gifts and making them feel "special." i hear about hugs and spending "quality time" together - doing things the boy likes to do. i hear about the boys being made to feel like they are important and valued and like they were someone that the perp really cares about and can't live without. all the stuff i never got from the step-dad - or any other male in my life. and i get so jealous of that treatment. i would have done anything for just a little of that kind of a relationship.

I KNOW that it all ends up being one big perverted ugly LIE! i know that the perp is just doing it all as an investment for an eventual pay-off - getting his way with the victim - whatever variety of molestation and/or rape happens to be his preference. i know that the boy gets used and hurt and eventually thrown away. and i know that the end result for the victim is a sense of betrayal, self-loathing, trust and abandonment issues, etc, etc, etc. I know the grass is always greener elsewhere - and i can't ever know whose trauma was worse - those who were groomed - or those who were not.

BUT - the way i feel is - i got all those after-effects, too. all the damages - and i got none of the perks - the feel-good stuff that preceeded the abuse. for me the abuse was always perfunctory - no preliminaries - no "foreplay" - no goodies - just the isolated acts of abuse. use em and leave em. the abuse came with a side of ridicule, hate, and threats of violence and public humiliation. i was available - they were bigger, stronger, more numerous or had greater authority - so they got what they wanted - and i got nothing - at least nothing "good." and they didn't even have to work for it.

i KNOW that this is really SICK - to be coveting another variation of abuse that is different from my own. i guess that just goes to show how much damage was done. better would be to envy a normal, healthy father-son relationship. that is just so far out of my frame of reference i can hardly even imagine it. i would have settled.

lee


Edited by traveler (09/18/12 11:31 PM)
Edit Reason: add
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

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#410590 - 09/19/12 01:51 AM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Dragon Boy Offline


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 29
Loc: uk
I've seen both sides. I've been abused by a few people, some who groomed me and some who didn't. Trust me, there is NO greener grass, just 2 different fields fertalised liberally with crap! Being treated rough causes one set of issues and being groomed causes another...and they both screw with your head something rotten.

Having said that, I can understand where you're coming from Lee. Feeling like you weren't worth treating nice and being given good things even for someone to get what they wanted out of you and being emotionally neglected can make you feel so desperate for afection that your feelings are totally understandable to me.

I'm sorry you were treated that way mate.

Gabe

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#410600 - 09/19/12 05:52 AM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3600
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Lee,
unfortunately those things that you've missed as kid should not be nor could be given by perp frown
Abuser actuality never give it, just make false image to looks like live. Such relationship is pure reflection of victims needs and there is no substantial feelings inside, it is one-sided unreal image. Those hugs weren't real ones...
So I would rather say for those who were treated in such "special" way devastating effects after discovery of abusive nature of relationship with their "kind" abuser must be even greater frown
Must say that for me hunger for father's love is much stronger feeling that screams from your post compared to envy to those who were groomed frown ?

Pero
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My story

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#410613 - 09/19/12 09:58 AM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
ShortedDiode Offline


Registered: 11/26/11
Posts: 92
Loc: Hamilton, ON Canada
I agree with the comment about the grass not being greener.

On one hand, I wish the perps just went ahead and did what they were going to do and got it over with, since it ended up happening anyways. At least it would be a little more honest about their intentions than having a big, elaborate lie come crashing down on top of the abuse itself. On the other, one perp really groomed the heck out of a couple of other kids and it hurt not being treated as well given that the tradeoff was the same, so I also understand the frustration you have with not getting anything out of it as well.

I guess CSA is a losing situation no matter what. I'm sorry you had to go through all of that, Lee.
_________________________
If it's a choice between laughing or crying, I'd rather laugh.

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#410614 - 09/19/12 10:16 AM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
As we know, there's no hierarchy of abuse. It all sucks, no matter what.

I'm jealous of survivors who remember the abuse because I can't; I'm guessing there's a number of you here who would want to change places with me in an instant so that you would have no memory of it like me -- but like Lee says, that wouldn't change a thing because I have all the after-effects of it, even without the memory.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#410616 - 09/19/12 11:10 AM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 589
Loc: VA
I wasn't "groomed"--my only involvement with the perv-etrator was a violent rape. I'm not sure how I'd feel now about any "treats" or affection the drunken perv had given me then. CSA is all about the abuser, never about the kid. Remember, it's all done by and for the perv. Peace!

John

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#410635 - 09/19/12 02:29 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Metolius Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 41
Loc: Oregon
Lee:

I'm glad you took the risk and posted your thoughts. I had strong emotional reactions to your post, many which were echoed in the responses.

I cringed because one of my perps, a priest, did nothing but groom me. I was definitely taken in by his warmth and charm, and my need to be noticed, to be touched was high. But at every moment, it still felt icky and creepy. It also created this craziness inside me: I didn't feel I had to power to say no, I thought there was something wrong with me because I was feeling sexual stuff and he couldn't have meant anything sexual by it since he was a priest. The dissonance between what he said he intended and his unspoken intentions left me in a state where I still don't trust the outward appearance of interactions with others, for fear that there is a dark, unspoken danger lurking beneath the surface.

I felt bothered by what seemed to be a bottom-line question of whether one form of abuse would have been preferable to another. I think working on recovery, there's an opportunity to go beyond thinking we can only choose between various forms of abuse. As I ponder your thoughts further, I realize that the desire for attention, soothing touch, etc., point to legitimate needs and desires. The challenge for me is to figure out who is trustworthy enough for me to experience intimacy and healthy touch with -- to reach out for what I need and want for appropriate affection in my life.

Jim

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#410642 - 09/19/12 03:23 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Sunshine1 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Virginia
Grooming...be there done that...

The main purpose in "grooming" is to establish a "bond of trust between the abuser and child". This "trust" often times rewarded with gifts, money, toys, etc. And there are times that these rewards are soley words of encouragement, affection of love or just listening to the child.

As for me, my home life was filled with physical and emotional abuse, I met my abuser who lifted me up when I was down, paid attention to me, I was his "special boy".

But again, the grooming process is intended for securing secrets and trust.

John
_________________________
Tomorrow brings another day

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#410644 - 09/19/12 03:25 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1390
Loc: California
Whoa, this thread surprises me. The question, the desire, and Metolius, your reply "The dissonance between what he said he intended and his unspoken intentions left me in a state where I still don't trust the outward appearance of interactions with others, for fear that there is a dark, unspoken danger lurking beneath the surface." - BAM!!

Right between my eyes.

I hadn't made this connection before. I developed a distrust of my own senses because of this very thing you just described. The abusers in my life had ulterior motives and their words did not match their behavior.

Thank you for giving me this insight!!!

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#410650 - 09/19/12 04:37 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1478
Loc: New England
By the time I was 13 I already had a hunger for drugs and alcohol. My abuser somehow knew that and used grass and beer as his lures to groom me, along with a group of other 12-13 year old boys. The night we were at his house getting high, and everyone left. I thought "Cool, I get to hang out with Tim and get even more stoned". Thats when he raped me.

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#410651 - 09/19/12 04:47 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 336
It's a strange thing to read this thread. I ignored it most of the day. I'm not sick exactly, readying it. But it definitely triggers a string of feelings. I wasn't groomed like treated nicely or praised. I was told that what we were doing was fun, that it's what people did, that it would be practice for sex with women when we were older. I was 10. The main person who raped me was, I think, 15 or 16. I remember crying with my face in a pillow while he did it, and while some other kids laughed. We were all scared shitless, I understand now. But then, I don't know what I thought, just that it wasn't fun. That it felt fucked up and weird. That it scared me. That it hurt. And confused me. For instance, I didn't know what "jizz" was. I didn't know what an orgasm was. I was too young. So I thought he was peeing on me, and I didn't understand why he was acting so weird. It just didn't make sense. That was when I was in fourth grade. In the winter. This was at my best friend's house. And I guess that my friend and his brother were raped first, and they were groomed, definitely, because they're the ones who got me into it, especially my friend's little brother, who was just crazy with what he did, what he put up with, what he said he liked. It's really hard to get away from a situation like that. I was scared. This guy was hurting me on a regular basis, raping me, and yet it was all supposed to be this great warm-up act for girls, and we were all supposed to be together in on it, although the German kid was the ringleader who did all the raping. I can't even begin to describe here how terrible this was, how it absolutely shot my life onto a different course, on that could very easily have killed me a hundred times over. And while I've never thought about what it would be like to be stranger-raped or whatever, I wonder if it would be easier in some ways because you'd know that you didn't ask for it, that it was forced on you, and so you're not so guilty and disgusting and creepy and sleazy. I know it wouldn't be easier. It would just be different. But let me tell you, the abuse I suffered was fucking miserable. And I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. This hurts too much to write or whatever. Hell.

Anyway.

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#410665 - 09/19/12 08:31 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Yerac Offline


Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 45
Loc: Southern CA
.

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#410681 - 09/19/12 11:38 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3319
Loc: back in the USA
SORRY guys!

i hope i didn't cause any hurtful triggers. i can only plead temporary insanity. but i did gain some meaningful insight.

i wasn't really meaning that i wanted to be groomed. and i din't mean that i'd have prostituted myself for the sake of the "goodies" that perps give. i guess what struck me so strongly in reading the article was the overwhelming need that keeps victims from telling or escaping and even keeps them coming back for more abuse. i totally understand that. it is like an irresistable vortex that can just pull you in.

Gabe - i like your comparison about the two fields - equal crap. or - as i thought about it while reading responses - like deciding which leg you'd rather have cut off - right or left? obviously - neither is a good aleternative. thanks for being gentle in your answer.

Pero - "unfortunately those things that you've missed as kid should not be nor could be given by perp" and "hunger for father's love is much stronger feeling that screams from your post compared to envy to those who were groomed" you are so right - i see that now.

ShortedDiode - "I guess CSA is a losing situation no matter what." truer words were never spoken! thanks for seeing and describing both sides from your point of view. helped restore my balance and sanity.

cant_remember - well worth repeating: "there's no hierarchy of abuse. It all sucks, no matter what." i do sympathize with you predicament. can't really tell you which is worse. mabebe it's like being groomed or not - all equally bad.

unhappycamper - you are right - "it's all done by and for the perv." i guess that would make everything turn toxic in hindsight.

Metolius - "I think working on recovery, there's an opportunity to go beyond thinking we can only choose between various forms of abuse." good reminder - sometimes we forget to look beyond our circumstances. your thoughts were very helpfl.

John - "As for me, my home life was filled with physical and emotional abuse, I met my abuser who lifted me up when I was down, paid attention to me, I was his 'special boy'." yep - i had the 1st but not the 2nd. guess i was deluded to think that would have made it "better." sorry you had both.

Magellan - thanks for that additional insight. you took it another step - and made it even more meaningful.

Garydosh - i can see that being groomed is really nothing to envy - we all end up in the same dump.

Thank you all for your contributions. again - i apologize if i caused additional pain by seeming to suggest that some victims had it better than others. such was not my intent.

Lee
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

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#410684 - 09/19/12 11:45 PM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3319
Loc: back in the USA
i didn't know how to get to the 2nd page while reading the posts on page 1 - so here is part 2 of my responses to your responses:

Robert - SOOO sorry. i honor and respect your courage in even reading this - and even more in writing about your experience. "I know it wouldn't be easier. It would just be different." i guess that is the bottom line for me too, now that i have come to my senses.

Yerac - "That's all that grooming really does...it convinces you against all logic that the abuse was somehow your fault." news for you - many of us who weren't groomed also feel that way. i know it doesn't make any sense - but there it is. i guess we are more alike than i thought.

Lee
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

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#410687 - 09/20/12 12:21 AM Re: grooming *TRIGGERS* [Re: traveler]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
I think I know what you mean.

I'm sure that my older brother was also abused by our older half brother (to a lesser degree if that is possible) But they used to do fun normal boy stuff together as well. I didn't get any of the good stuff - just the yukky stuff.

I feel a bit ripped off.
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More than meets the eye!

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