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#410331 - 09/16/12 10:27 PM Making Peace and a Question for All
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
I pretty much made peace with the violence that was done to me (sexual, emotional and physical abuse), the emotional damage (lack of ability to really have more than superficial feelings--deep feeling just doesn't exist for me) and the physical damage (bad illness for 4-5 years, bipolar, anxiety disorder). I've come to accept there was really no help around when I really, really needed it(as a kid and when I lost it at 26-28 years old). There are some good people here who got me through extreme anger and suicidal behaviour from Dec. 2011 to March 2012. But, thanks to my intelligence and bipolar, I'm still alive. I don't feel grateful or ungrateful for that though. Like I said, no deep feelings in me.

Sometimes it makes me feel bad knowing I have no mate now or in my past at all. I haven't had good touch in almost a decade. Hugs really don't do anything for me except shut me down and piss me off (one abuser hugged me as a kid to soothe his conscience) sometimes. Nobody has offered to hug me in a long, long time. I've hugged a few people (in the last few years) to comfort them, but no idea why that works. Yes, I'm superficial. Not by choice. That's what they, my abusers, made me. Since I really don't connect to anyone, I wonder if I'll end up alone the rest of my life. It doesn't depress me though. I can't blame others for not wanting much to do with me when I couldn't and din't connect to anyone. I've been through religion, it was used as a weapon against me by one of my abusers and it was so oppressive that now I hate it with a passion.

The only thing that really hurts me is I never had the opportunity for any progeny. I doubt I would've been good with a kid, but it does affect me I never had that opportunity. Since I'm bipolar (it kept me sane for decades) and other family was, too, there's a very high chance any offspring could have it, so practically it wouldn't have been a good thing along with my lack of ability to connect at all. It's really the last thing I get upset over since that joy, as people call it, was certainly stolen from me. No idea what joy or peace is; I never had any.

Here's my question--now that I've gotten to be nearly as good as I possibly can get (still working on self-hate), what's the point? I'm not suicidal, but the question I've been asking is, what's the point of this life? Getting rich and successful, in society's eyes, is my goal. But, when that's achieved or now, what was the point in my life? Why did and do I exist? Religious dogma has no place here. I despise it for the reasons I said. Hold thy tongue if that's what you have to offer my question. It just seems to me that I've never lived at all just existed. So, I ask those smarter than me, what was the point in the life? I really have no clue.



Edited by phoenix321 (09/16/12 10:27 PM)
Edit Reason: add
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#410343 - 09/17/12 01:49 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3566
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Phoenix,
you posted very difficult question. What is the point?
I think that there is no direct answer on that. We all are different and it is not possible to copy someone's else solutions regarding meaning of life.
For me finding and doing things that fulfill me inside is part of that quest.
It is nothing specific, nothing planned in advance. I just need to follow my inner voice and that is, small things. I know that I need company of some friends, would be nice to start family, I can't live completely alone even I'm living like that currently. There is no guaranty that I'll accomplish my dreams.
I'll try avoiding living in accordance to society's views, I hate that and their values, I need to find my own and to fertilize them. What are your values Phoenix, can you find it and follow it?


Pero
_________________________
My story

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#410373 - 09/17/12 11:49 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Hey Phoenix, thanks for sharing. The answer to your question is simple. Love. I'm not referring to God's love or empty platitudes. This is how I explain it to my kids, and to myself for that matter. Do you know how terrible life is when people are cruel or simply not there? That's the absence of love. And it sucks. Have you ever experienced something that was fun? Have you felt happy, either by yourself or with someone else? That's love. You can't weigh it. You can't hold it on your hand. But it makes all the difference in the world whether it's there or not.

My advice for you, when you feel like there's no point in life, is to do things that allow you to express your love. If you don't have someone in your life who you could do fun stuff with, you could express yourself in other ways. You could volunteer somewhere. You could make art or music. You could join theater. You could simply do something that makes you feel good, that's fun, that allows you to appreciate the world.

I believe you do have the ability to empathize. Otherwise, you wouldn't feel pain. You can pass on the things that are important to you without having children.

Keep working in therapy. That's a road that we're never done with. Keep seeking peace. Keep it up. Good luck. Bob

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#410376 - 09/17/12 12:11 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: Robert1000]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Robert1000
Have you ever experienced something that was fun? Have you felt happy, either by yourself or with someone else? That's love. You can't weigh it. You can't hold it on your hand. But it makes all the difference in the world whether it's there or not.


Do you know how terrible life is when people are cruel or simply not there? That's the absence of love. // Been alone my whole life. I've definitely had the absence.

Fun? Bipolar highs are the fun.

Happy? When all is quiet and I don't think, that's happy I guess. A feeling? No, just calm. I crave calm. "Nothing" (have to do nothing) is calm to me.

Happy with someone else? Nope. Others drive me nuts because I have no clue what they want. Yeah, my abuse made me superficial. Life's a bitch. People say I'm cold. Well, sorry, not on purpose.

Therapy? I'm not in any and couldn't afford it anyway. Had quite a few of those losers use me for money in the past.

You have kids, great. Not getting that opportunity is all that gets to me sometimes.

Thanks. Not really the answer though, Bob.

Thanks, Pero. The answer to that question is elusive, ain't it?
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#410385 - 09/17/12 01:56 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Good luck, man. You're in a dark spot. I hope it passes.

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#410409 - 09/17/12 04:53 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Yerac Offline


Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 45
Loc: Southern CA
.

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#410451 - 09/17/12 09:23 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: Robert1000]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Robert1000
Good luck, man. You're in a dark spot. I hope it passes.


I actually mentally feel better than ever. My mind is quiet. I had to come to peace with all the emotional damage and that emotional life (most people have--you had kids--and a wife probably--so you'd be one of those) that was stolen from me. Being superficial is kinda easier to be honest. I always fought it and finally just had to accept that's the way I am.

I explained in detail the reasons I deduced I'm like this, chemically from abuse, sexul and non-sexual, here: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...168#Post406168.

The users would definitely include several piece-of-shit therapists along the way that I have come to know were abusers, too. I despise the therapy profession after 11 disastrous therapists who just used me to make a buck and lied to me and did nothing in return. One actually told me being "human" like most people was useless. I don't think much of her since she didn't explain it, but, have to give it to her for seeing through the bullshit and telling me the truth. Yeah, she was abusive in saying that without the explanation (see the link I posted above for the explanation).

Other than constantly being used so others could get their jollies off (sexually and non-sexually) or feel better about what losers they truly were, I just wonder what the point was in me ever being here to begin with. It just seems totally unfair I was totally screwed for 40 years (I'm 43). Life is unfair, but come on. I never got a break from this shit.


Edited by phoenix321 (09/17/12 09:29 PM)
Edit Reason: add
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#410456 - 09/17/12 10:36 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
For me, discovering the "meaning of life" has been a strange paradoxical trip.

I've heard a lot of wisdom over the years, and MUCH of it has resonated deeply since working at recovery from CSA.

We don't try to figure out the meaning of life, but to bring meaning TO life. The "meaning of life" denotes some sort of god or something, which I know you don't ascribe to (neither do I). But as a buddhist (non practicing), taking the power to define your own meaning in life is so empowering, and lends itself to recovery from the broken thought processes and dysfunctional beliefs that haunt us.

We have the power of choice, and thus, have the power to change. We're not victims of our genes, nor are we victims of our heritage.

I can say this with distinct command over feeling victimized by life; I was born with 2 known disabilities, and an assortment of genetic anomalies and defects. I felt victimized by my genes (bad hearing and crossed eyes).

I am now coming to a place in my life where I no longer feel victimized or cursed. And this is all because of the work I've been doing to learn to love myself.

I'm glad to see that you've undertaken the same challenge - to learn to love yourself. It's a monumental challenge that will bring you very surprising rewards.

D

_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410476 - 09/18/12 12:58 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: Magellan]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL


I've worked really hard and am getting rid of the self-hate and self-loathing. I realize I can't be perfect and have cut myself a ton of slack. The problem is I don't connect to others at all. I was never allowed to as a kid. I wasn't allowed to have friends as a kid. Any that tried, there was sabotaged by my useless sperm donor. I do think my inability to connect to others is my main problem and the last hurdle in the self-hate category. Others can drive me nuts since I really have no idea what they want from me emotionally. I also don't want to be manipulative and just use my superficial charm to "win" people. Maybe I won't ever connect with others. Certainly people haven't made the effort here in real life to try and connect with me either. I've gotten used and abused a lot trusting. I attract the worst people it seems. I may have to be okay with that not ever happening.

I don't have any regrets missing a lot of emotional stuff in my life. It wasn't my fault I didn't (and don't) get it. Magellan, I do believe you're wrong that we can change everything. There is a lot of research on low Oxytocin (human bonding, love chemical in the brain) not being produced (or very low quantitites) because of abuse (sexual and non-sexual). Bipolar actually inhibits it. Being on guard, survival mode really inhibits it. I really don't know if I'll ever get out of that survival mode. This all turned on at 3.5 years old. I wasn't 14 or 15 and stuff happened; I was 3.5! I have no frame of reference for it being different at all. It literally has been my whole life since the original person died the night I was raped repeatedly. I was robbed of pretty much everything including an emotional life. It's like I never existed anywhere.

Allowing myself NOT to strive for perfection in every damn area has helped tremendously. Perfection is self-hate. I've done extremely well considering I've had no therapist to guide me and no one in the flesh to even talk to about all this stuff. When I needed help (as a kid and at 26-28), there was no one. Heck, I've succeeded in spite of those assholes! Have to pat myself on the back there. It's definitely lowered my opinion of humanity.

I think very few people really exist out there that give a fuck about others. I have yet to meet a therapist that gives a fuck unless they are cashing a check or feeding their egos. Its not about the money there, its about them not cleaning up their growing profession full of bullshitters. Hard to explain. Yeah, I have a lot of anger against those 12 asshole therapists that raped me again and again with their lies to get my money and/or their general, well, he really doesn't matter much anyway attitudes. If I had mattered to them, they would've done their jobs. Treatment plans (never had one from any) is just one beef.

So, I ask, what was the point of me ever being alive?
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#410513 - 09/18/12 11:21 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
My answer is still the same, dude - I believe we give our own lives meaning, and we can deliberately do that with the choices we make.

You talk like no one else has endured what you endured. You're not alone in that, and you don't have the monopoly on being "most broken", either.

You do realize that you are SURROUNDED by a bunch of guys who have had remarkably similar experiences and BELIEFS that you have? And you do also realize that many of these same guys have RECOVERED and CHANGED from this same set of experiences and beliefs?

They're among us, posting and responding to our posts. So yes, I do believe we can change. Indeed, it is the fundamental truth of the Universe - CHANGE IS INEVITABLE. We can mold and guide that change with our free will and creativity. Evidence is all around us here right here at MS.

You have power to change your destiny.

Keep going, don't give up. It's worth it in the end.

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410519 - 09/18/12 11:56 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Phoenix! What do you want me to say? There is no point? That's bogus! I hate to be hard on you, buddy, but come here for growth and healing, not to reinforce your own crappy mood. And don't get me wrong, I used the word "mood" specifically. Your dark view is nothing more than a mood, my friend. It'll pass. It's not some deep insight into the meaning of life. It's a mood.

I hope it passes for you. As Magellan said, Keep going, don't give up. It's worth it in the end.

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#410525 - 09/18/12 12:34 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
Phoenix,
I am also Bipolar and my manic phases were fun...but they were also when I did the most damage to myself and others. I am happily on medication that evens out my moods. I don't have answers to the question "What is the meaning of life?" but I do know that I am finally starting to see daylight, stop hating myself, and trying to figure out how to actually love myself and someone else. Thats waiting for you too. Keep seeking it brother.

Gary
_________________________
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
And I have become comfortably numb."
Pink Floyd

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#410540 - 09/18/12 03:18 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Steve0123 Offline


Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 80
Be. Happy. smile


I amend that ...pursue happiness, I realize some days you just can't be happy but spend your life doing whatever it is that makes you truly happy ( and that may change constantly)....

...your other option is to spend your life questioning everything and never coming to an acceptable answer.


Edited by Steve0123 (09/18/12 03:22 PM)

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#410586 - 09/19/12 01:00 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
*triggers**

Robert, I kinda feel marginalized by your statement. You might want to live in another's shoes before judging. Let's see, I missed being a kid (raped at 3.5 years old, lived in an abusive hell--lived in fear for 18 years--the rest of it, my sperm donor--hell, if there is one, is too good for this dick--wouldn't let me have friends), missed my prom (even though high school was nothing but being bullied daily--that did piss me off), didn't get my high school yearbook (too expensive--mom got one after she found out dad refused) and none signed it because I got one that summer, couldn't participate in after school activities cause of the dick sperm donor, moved every two years because of that shitty military brat lifestyle (I met any and all obligations to the United States of America is my thought--yeah I may not have served but my ass paid as much as any soldier and I left it with PTSD, GAD, Bipolar, an all-night rape by a military man and his wife, etc.) giving me no stability, bullied throughout school, etc. This is just what I know from mom and my brother since I know little of childhood. I also slept with 3 female teachers from 14-15. Truthfully, that was the only good thing I ever got from school. Is that terrible to say? Yeah, it is for 99% of people, but it was nothing compared to the hell I lived in. I would've run away with the 1st one. You know why? She treated me like a human being. I kept that quiet till just this year when I told Pero about it. That's how shitty my life was as a kid. My rape when I was a toddler made me an adult by 5-6 years old. I was sexually active at 9 years old. Now, all that shaped who I was emotionally till now and beyond now. I went through a ton of suicide hospitalizations over my shitty childhood. Those 12 self-serving useless wastes of flesh called therapists set me back 15 years with their lies and bullshit. I hope they all choke on the lucre they stole from me! So, yeah, if I can't ask, what was the point of me existing cause it seemed like I mattered little if at all, who can?

Robert, I'm glad you have the wife (don't fuck it up cause she's the way out not the therapists!) and kids. Other than as a sex toy, nobody wanted me like she wanted you. Yeah, I'm pissed I missed love (no idea what it is to this day) and the opportunity of kids. You had those two so how do you know how someone like me would feel? I had to make peace, not only with the rape and the endless child abuse, with all I lost.

My life experiences is why I know God is an absentee landlord who doesn't give a fuck anyway. Hell, I could talk about that den of vipers who saw me, my mom and my brother's suffering and never gave a shit one iota. It automatically makes me assume all church people are hypocrites till they prove different. Is that fair? I don't know. My sperm donor also used religion as a weapon to control me, too. The bigger reason why I hate religion no matter what one they claim to serve (the assholes in-charge of all religions serve one person--themselves I'd bet 90% of the time).

Steve, yep, what you say is true. I'm gonna get rich, have fun and worry about nothing.

Garydosh, I'm with ya. Self-hate is a biggie. I'm getting through it. My anger, now and then, has turned to those who put me in those positions of loss not myself. That's a big revelation to get. The only ones I haven't really forgiven are my sperm donor (when he's dead I will) and those therapists that did zero for me except line their pockets with my money.

The meaning of life? Maybe, just maybe, there is none. Who cares? It ain't gonna make me money to take care of myself is it? Hell no.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#410594 - 09/19/12 03:27 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
As often happens lately, we're on the same page Phoenix on some of my T$, often not finding peace until my various abusers had finally died, etc. AND, I voiced your question - what's the point? - verbatim with an expletive added a couple weeks ago to the T. He took notes and then handed them to me. I like that this guy's 100% present during the session and nothing else. Dunno if any of this strikes a chord - it might not since they're my issues - but thot I'd put it out there.

1. Expose the perpetrator
2. Protect other children (which brought me to tears)
3. Expose the institutions
4. Put the issue to rest
5. Medical health/mental health
6. Affect my work (part of me died)
7. Desperate to get back the level/quality of my work

(The work thing is a big one for me. I'm in visual media - always my best outlet anyway - and I'm avoiding a project right now by being on MS). Yeah, I use the Devil's Advocate quote(s) quite a bit ;-)

This probably sounds trivial as hell - I probably sound like a total disconnect - but what works for me lately is the thought I was put here to care for the dozen felines I've had over the course of 25 years. Only one elderly one is left and I lavish all the love on him I've ever had for any of them. Nope. Don't have kids. Don't have a partner. Don't care. I'm not religious. I'm not inclined to go metaphysical on people. But I believe the "litter critters" have spirits and that's where I connect. Probably places me somewhere between Native American and Hindu. It doesn't make me rich, powerful, influential or famous. But it's exactly where I feel I fit and where I'm at peace. <--that kind of honesty isn't easy for me to post publicly

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#410601 - 09/19/12 06:40 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: Lancer]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Lancer
As often happens lately, we're on the same page Phoenix on some of my T$, often not finding peace until my various abusers had finally died, etc. AND, I voiced your question - what's the point? - verbatim with an expletive added a couple weeks ago to the T. He took notes and then handed them to me. I like that this guy's 100% present during the session and nothing else. Dunno if any of this strikes a chord - it might not since they're my issues - but thot I'd put it out there.

1. Expose the perpetrator
2. Protect other children (which brought me to tears)
3. Expose the institutions
4. Put the issue to rest
5. Medical health/mental health
6. Affect my work (part of me died)
7. Desperate to get back the level/quality of my work

(The work thing is a big one for me. I'm in visual media - always my best outlet anyway - and I'm avoiding a project right now by being on MS). Yeah, I use the Devil's Advocate quote(s) quite a bit ;-)

This probably sounds trivial as hell - I probably sound like a total disconnect - but what works for me lately is the thought I was put here to care for the dozen felines I've had over the course of 25 years. Only one elderly one is left and I lavish all the love on him I've ever had for any of them. Nope. Don't have kids. Don't have a partner. Don't care. I'm not religious. I'm not inclined to go metaphysical on people. But I believe the "litter critters" have spirits and that's where I connect. Probably places me somewhere between Native American and Hindu. It doesn't make me rich, powerful, influential or famous. But it's exactly where I feel I fit and where I'm at peace. <--that kind of honesty isn't easy for me to post publicly


Thank you, Lancer. Pets give you a purpose and offer unconditional love. Glad you have them. It'll be several years before I'm in a financial position to consider any pet (including a goldfish). lol Good list your T gave you.

1. Mine are dead.
2. I'll not go public with my CSA. Got fired twice over it, someone tried to destroy my reputation, it ain't happening again.
3. None really tied to my CSA. But, exposing those abusive shrinks I had would be an awesome idea. There are shrinks out there doing good I hope. My experience has jaded me to the whole bunch. I've wrote politicians and explained they need a lot more regulation--their licenses should have their expertise so consumers know what they are capable of doing. I do think many, even the so-called 'great' ones, are ripoffs.
4. Mine is mostly at rest. Working damn hard on not hating myself. I do think my lack of connecting to anyone hampers it though.
5. Health is almost there. Mental--quiet in my head for first time since the rape.
6/7. I'm getting back to writing. I'll be back soon. And, I'm gonna prostitute my talent for all its worth. Noble efforts and freebies don't pay. Money talks, bullshit walks. You know, you're creative. Best of luck getting back. Hope self-hate isn't the reason you don't. It is in my case. smile

I don't care about fame. I'd rather be unknown and rich and have financial security. Hate to say it, but rich is the only way you get any financial security in today's shitty economy. Thanks again.

What's my purpose? I think all that is happened took the fight out of me. I ain't into going to war with anyone. I've done that before and found it lacking. Think I've paid enough in life. Certainly way more than normal people ever think of doing.



Edited by phoenix321 (09/19/12 06:44 AM)
Edit Reason: add
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#410617 - 09/19/12 11:19 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
Phoenix,

Writing this note to you now feels like I'm writing to myself from 3 years ago. I was in exactly the same emotional spot and twisted thinking about my life and people as you are now. I was so angry and so judgmental and so distrustful of other people. I could not see that others were reaching out to me with an affirming hand, and instead would see other people trying to attack me whenever they suggested something different than what I thought I knew.

Honestly, I'm humbled to be telling this to you. It confirms for me that the huge changes I've seen in my life are worth it. Because I care about you, and how you're experiencing life. I understand.

Here's my final thought on this topic of "meaning of life", Phoenix;

The anger you have may be part of the wall that keeps you from connecting from other people. All of your writing exhibits a latent RAGE.

Hey, we all have rage coming here. Many of us feel justified in having that rage and anger. We have every reason to.

Here's the thing about anger and rage - it's a wall. It insulates us from further harm. It protects us from people trying to manipulate, use and control us. It's very effective.

Unfortunately, it also pushes people away. Very few people are actually attracted to anger.

I know that you're angry. I suspect you might disqualify this statement and list any number of reasons why you're not angry. Or you may list reasons to justify your anger. Please don't let the anger block the love this site has for you.

You've been here almost a year, dude. What steps have you undertaken to try and change the circumstances of your life? Weren't you at one point dying??! It sounds like that got resolved with the thyroid medication you got. That is something to be thankful for! Celebration! But I haven't seen any acknowledgment from you about how that has been resolved? You're no longer telling everyone you're dying, so that CHANGED? Aren't you the least bit glad that this has changed? Aren't you the least bit proud that YOU stood up for YOURSELF, and YOU were able to see through all that to get the medicine you needed? YOU did that. Haven't heard a peep of gratitude or relief or pride from you.

What else have you done to change the circumstances of your life? I'm glad to hear you're working on not hating yourself anymore. That's MAJOR! You hogtie your efforts to stop hating yourself by basing the success/failure of that by saying you can't connect to people, and trying to make a physiological case for it (lack of oxytocin). You know what? I've done EXACTLY THE SAME RESEARCH, and CAME TO EXACTLY THE SAME CONCLUSIONS. And I now realize that all the self diagnosing I was doing was exactly the same thing you're doing now - DEMANDING ANSWERS.

Well, here's a blunt suggestion for you, dude - Stop dismissing the compassionate efforts that others (including myself) take to help support you and cheer you on and give you pointers along the path of recovery that we're all on. Some of us are further along in recovery than you are, and thus, have more insight (hindsight). And boy are we lucky that they're here sharing their insights with us.

I hope you can find some gratitude for Robert suggesting that you haven't got all the answers (NONE of us do), and to use MaleSurvivors for what its built to do - SUPPORT RECOVERY.

You're very angry. ALL OF US who come here to MaleSurvivors arrive in exactly the same condition - our thoughts running us crazy, angry, thinking, and sometimes saying destructive things.

This whole thread you started has me mystified. You asked "what is the meaning of life?" and when multiple others try to answer with their belief, you dismiss each one so easily and so quickly, and you're quick to agree with those who don't have the answer, or who's words only support your chosen outlook.

Why even ask if your intent is to dismiss everyone who has a different point of view than you?

And this is exactly what Robert said you are doing. You opened this thread under the guise of wanting to know the meaning of life, but your consequent words indicate you're only looking to affirm your rotten thinking and your bad mood.

Trust me when I say that I could have been much sharper with you in my response to this thread. You've contradicted yourself numerous times with your declarative statements about what you "know". Case in point: You said you are making peace, and then conclude with stating you had no idea what peace is. See your 1st post on this very thread - 1st paragraph, and then last paragraph. I'll leave that, at that.

I care about you. I care about how you're tormenting yourself with the obsessive thoughts of trying to fix and resolve things. I care that you're self diagnosing yourself without expertise. I care about how much you're flailing, trying to find sanity and serenity in a seemingly threatening and dangerous world. I care that you feel completely lost and hopeless. I care that you want to give up so bad, but for some reason you're still here fighting. I can relate.

I care about you because I was you 3 years ago. I made the same exact statements you made, and made the same conclusions you made as well. I. Was. Wrong. And that doesn't make me a bad or worth less person for being incorrect.

You've got the power of making choices in your life, and with that power of choice, you have the power to change. There is nothing metaphysical about this statement at all - the Universe (and people) are always in a constant state of change.

You can keep on denying this fact of life and the universe. But as long as you hold onto your unwillingness to take a look at yourself, your thoughts, your beliefs, and your behaviors (these are all things that YOU CAN CHANGE), you're going to remain stuck exactly right where you are, buddy.

With firm and deliberate compassion,

D







Edited by Magellan (09/19/12 02:15 PM)
Edit Reason: edited
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#410619 - 09/19/12 11:58 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
first off, i don't claim to be "smarter than you" - but i hope you'll still read this.

meaning of life? i have no idea. i come at it from a different angle - value of life.

i have read and reread your posts - a lot has stirred in me - a lot of compassion i thought was dead a LONG time ago. and a lot of partial understanding. my abuse started at 3, but i don't think it was as violent or vile as yours.

but my point is when i read your posts, they connect. i feel there's someone else out there who understands, who knows what it's like to be on that edge. not wanting to jump off or "end it all" just wanting an answer. NEEDING an answer.

and, phoenix - if i may be so bold - the fact that i connect to what you say, that i can read your posts and feel something - ME - actually FEEL SOMETHING - in my life it gives you value. i don't cry man - but my eyes feel the burn at spots reading of your pain. so it's real to me.

SO......... i can't give you the meaning of life. but i can tell you your life has value. at least to me. and i count. that means you do to. screw knowing the "meaning" - live with value for a while and see if it changes anything. it does for me - most days anyhoo...
_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#410628 - 09/19/12 01:40 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Good afternoon, Phoenix. One other thing. I know that what happened to you sucked. I know that. I'm not going to try to corner the market on pain and suffering. I'll ask you to do the same. I don't know your pain, and you don't know mine. Don't think you had "greater" pain than anyone here. This isn't the Olympics of pain. And there's no gold medal if you win.... But I know that your pain is real. It's terrible. And you're in the thick of it. I see that. And I feel for you, my brother. I really do.

Use this space to heal. Truly. Use these glimpses into the humanity of others who are in the same predicament as windows into different but similar lives, lives of men who, like you, were violated and abused and hurt and, in some cases, left for dead. But we didn't die. We kept living. And we did that by choice. And we came here by choice. I know you're in pain. And I think I can see that, while you're turning back all the kind words and ideas that people have sent to you, and continue to send, you're still here. You're still looking. You did, after all, start this post with a question that begged an answer.

And let me tell you... if there's a part of you that wants to push me away... and push away the acceptance that I have to offer... if won't work. You can't push it away. You can pull yourself away, but this site has helped me too much already, and I'm done putting up barriers around myself.

Here are my thoughts for you. Here's what I wish for you. Peace. Acceptance. And the conscious choice to go forward, deliberately. Without anger. Let it go. I haven't succeeded with that in my own life, but I've felt the peace that's possible, and I won't stop trying.

Sincerely,
Bob



Edited by Robert1000 (09/19/12 01:42 PM)

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#410633 - 09/19/12 02:24 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Getting By Offline


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 8
Good question Phoenix.

It's different for everyone, but in my experience "to make a difference for better" is as close an answer I have to for a lot of people I've discussed this with.

For altruistic people, that can mean religion, or volunteer work in a developing country, or working with homeless kids or drug addicts, or becoming a better parent, becoming a teacher or making a better type of <cancer drug, computer, chair, mousetrap, ...>

For some it means making a difference for themselves, so making lots of money, buying stuff, picking up trophy partners, collecting rare stamps.

I've met an increasing number of people who take the opinion that there is no "meaning" in that life just *is*. For them, this is not a negative approach: rather "life is what you make of it: nothing more and nothing less"

I'd agree with Magellan: whatever it may be for you, it's within your power to choose.

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#410682 - 09/19/12 11:41 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: Magellan]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Thanks, Magellan,

I just think think I had the right to ask what was the point of my first 43 years of hell on this planet. Others in similar situations have the right to ask, too.

As far as emotions and connecting, yeah, lost is a great description. That I have no idea how to fix.

My rage really is at those therapists I had. It just makes me so angry I went to these people who claimed to want to help (therapists--loved the line in Girl, Interrupted--"your ther-rapist, sweetpea"--it describes them perfectly) and they just lied, scammed and bullshitted me because they could. At that time (26-28 and then 28-35 really--7 years with all 12), I was suicidal, nuts and they just lied to me to get paid. How do they live with themselves? Where in hell do these people come from? It's like I went to the doc with a broken foot and he breaks my leg and calls it "healing".

Until I read that therapist's shopping guide on here last year, I wasn't pissed at them (three were worthless and I canned them back then and I knew about those). As for the other 9, I just can't believe the stuff they didn't do and apparently didn't care to do and certainly lied about doing. I feel extremely violated in every way possible all over again. It gives me flashbacks to the rape to right now so they were nothing more than sicko rapists themselves. It has ruined therapy (glad I have no money for it) for me in the future because I'll always be wondering about their real motives no matter who they are. Any trust in therapists I've had has been destroyed nearly totally. I was so mad last Monday I took a Psychology Today magazine from an office at a college I went to and ripped it to shreds. Didn't realize I did it until I was tossing the torn paper in the trash. I'm that angry at them. I don't want to hear from any therapists (I change the channel on the TV if I see one and curse the screen--it's that bad), see any of these cretins and listen to any of their bullshit (whether it works or not). I even despise the word "therapy" because of it. lol

The abusers (except my sperm donor cause that ahole is still alive and kicking and rubs it in at every opportunity) I've had to let go of.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#410690 - 09/20/12 12:51 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: phoenix321]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
Phoenix,

I've had at least half a dozen therapists over the years. Some were terrible, some were okay, one cried during our session after confiding he was not well endowed, one fired me because I wouldn't take therapy seriously. He was right. The one I have now listens more than he talks and doesn't try to tell me what to do. Most of the wasted time in therapy was my own fault. I wasn't going to get down to my real issues no matter what, until I was ready. Unfortunately that took from age 21 (first T) till age 55 (present T). Nobody's fault but my own.
_________________________
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
And I have become comfortably numb."
Pink Floyd

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#410830 - 09/20/12 05:20 PM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: Getting By]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Getting By
Good question Phoenix.

It's different for everyone, but in my experience "to make a difference for better" is as close an answer I have to for a lot of people I've discussed this with.

For altruistic people, that can mean religion, or volunteer work in a developing country, or working with homeless kids or drug addicts, or becoming a better parent, becoming a teacher or making a better type of <cancer drug, computer, chair, mousetrap, ...>

For some it means making a difference for themselves, so making lots of money, buying stuff, picking up trophy partners, collecting rare stamps.

I've met an increasing number of people who take the opinion that there is no "meaning" in that life just *is*. For them, this is not a negative approach: rather "life is what you make of it: nothing more and nothing less"

I'd agree with Magellan: whatever it may be for you, it's within your power to choose.


I used to be altruistic. Not anymore. I'm just gonna get rich and find a trophy wife (or two). lol
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#410907 - 09/21/12 01:02 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: MarkK]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: MarkK
first off, i don't claim to be "smarter than you" - but i hope you'll still read this.

meaning of life? i have no idea. i come at it from a different angle - value of life.

i have read and reread your posts - a lot has stirred in me - a lot of compassion i thought was dead a LONG time ago. and a lot of partial understanding. my abuse started at 3, but i don't think it was as violent or vile as yours.

but my point is when i read your posts, they connect. i feel there's someone else out there who understands, who knows what it's like to be on that edge. not wanting to jump off or "end it all" just wanting an answer. NEEDING an answer.

and, phoenix - if i may be so bold - the fact that i connect to what you say, that i can read your posts and feel something - ME - actually FEEL SOMETHING - in my life it gives you value. i don't cry man - but my eyes feel the burn at spots reading of your pain. so it's real to me.

SO......... i can't give you the meaning of life. but i can tell you your life has value. at least to me. and i count. that means you do to. screw knowing the "meaning" - live with value for a while and see if it changes anything. it does for me - most days anyhoo...


MarkK,

Sorry you've been through similar stuff. frown

I rarely cry except watching movies and that ain't about me because I don't see the point. I literally haven't had good touch in at least 8 years or so. What I mean is no one has comforted me in a long time about anything. When I found I had CHF, I craved it but was rejected very badly by a supposed family member. Didn't have anyone else (except booty buddies in another city) I could call and really wasn't interested in sex at the time. I'm healed physically now thankfully.

I'm not suicidal just wanted to know what the point was. smile

Thank you.


Edited by phoenix321 (09/21/12 01:16 AM)
Edit Reason: add
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#410908 - 09/21/12 01:14 AM Re: Making Peace and a Question for All [Re: Robert1000]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Robert1000
Good afternoon, Phoenix. One other thing. I know that what happened to you sucked. I know that. I'm not going to try to corner the market on pain and suffering. I'll ask you to do the same. I don't know your pain, and you don't know mine. Don't think you had "greater" pain than anyone here. This isn't the Olympics of pain. And there's no gold medal if you win.... But I know that your pain is real. It's terrible. And you're in the thick of it. I see that. And I feel for you, my brother. I really do.

Use this space to heal. Truly. Use these glimpses into the humanity of others who are in the same predicament as windows into different but similar lives, lives of men who, like you, were violated and abused and hurt and, in some cases, left for dead. But we didn't die. We kept living. And we did that by choice. And we came here by choice. I know you're in pain. And I think I can see that, while you're turning back all the kind words and ideas that people have sent to you, and continue to send, you're still here. You're still looking. You did, after all, start this post with a question that begged an answer.

And let me tell you... if there's a part of you that wants to push me away... and push away the acceptance that I have to offer... if won't work. You can't push it away. You can pull yourself away, but this site has helped me too much already, and I'm done putting up barriers around myself.

Here are my thoughts for you. Here's what I wish for you. Peace. Acceptance. And the conscious choice to go forward, deliberately. Without anger. Let it go. I haven't succeeded with that in my own life, but I've felt the peace that's possible, and I won't stop trying.

Sincerely,
Bob



Bob,

It was about me and what I've gone through. I used to think, well, there are people that have had it worse discounting my own hell, avoiding looking at all that stuff that happened to me. I need to put me, yeah, me first. I've never done that before really always putting others before me. I have big abandonment issues since I was left with those two child rapists the night my brother was born.

I have a high IQ and we think incessantly about abstract shit like the meaning of life. Forget who mentioned it, but there is no meaning to life sounds good to me. And, it really doesn't matter anyway. If there was some grand meaning, I'd certainly be justified in hating the asshole in-charge of it all, right? lol

I'm off to bed. Thanks for understanding.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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