Newest Members
0128, jeremywickers, JScott12, TMatti2, DaiseyLady
12502 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
asdude1981 (33), Avery46 (51), hans32 (46), jean-noel (49), Kirk (59), Kirk Wayne (59), Mechanical (21), OldTrafford (50)
Who's Online
3 registered (don64, tbkkfile, 1 invisible), 11 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12502 Members
74 Forums
64192 Topics
447956 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#405684 - 08/03/12 05:43 AM Religion.
CloudyFalls Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Ohio
America is one of the most religious countries, and it makes me uncomfortable. I hate wondering who's religious, will they judge me without even knowing me? What brought this whole idea up to the surface was watching the Olympic games today. There was an American girl in the gymnastics who I was watching and rooting for. She ended up winning the Olympic gold, and I was so happy for her. But then she was interviewed and she proclaimed that it was her trust in God that she received these blessings. It made me wonder if she too was among those that fight against my human rights. Another thing that's got this whole thing going on in my mind is all the publicity with Chick-fil-a, and how adamant they are that the LGBTQ community is the scum of the earth. In both cases, religion is the perpetuator of this hate. The truth is it's hard for the LGBTQ community knowing there are people in this country actively protesting against out human rights. It creates a psychological problem, for me at least, and I think a lot of times it's downplayed. The fact is there are beliefs out there that we as a community are inhuman and a disgrace to "all that is holy". From personal experience, this has a huge impact on my self-worth, whether or not I admit it. It's so prevalent that it's even a belief shared by almost an entire party in our Government, the Republicans. When a presidential candidate himself (Romney) shares these beliefs as well, it's a very astounding issue. That a possible leader of the country that I live in, hates me without even knowing me, and will proactively pursue our demise and oppression. It is a HUGE issue in this country, HUGE. It affects SO many people, and just because we're a minority does not make it any less significant. I was raised catholic, and this too makes it difficult for me to accept and love who I am. Even though I don't identify myself as catholic, it still lingers in the teachings I was forced to accept growing up. Going to catholic school was in one word hell, and really that's all I feel like saying about it, otherwise I'd ramble on and on. I am currently having many identity issues, whether or not I'm gay or bi, but also with gender identity. I wonder, how do you guys deal with this influence? It is almost omnipotent in our society, and like my mom says things have gotten better, but the truth is, it's still not enough. What are your thoughts?
_________________________
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

Top
#405695 - 08/03/12 10:53 AM Re: Religion. [Re: CloudyFalls]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Hey CF!
I used to be there, my life revolved in "religion" - I was always part of the choir or praise team, instrumentals, something. Still am - the focus has just changed.

In my opinion, 'religion' is man's way of trying to bring the glory and splendor of the Infinite down to terms they can comprehend. So they make a god in their image.

I believe we are all "fearfully and wonderfully made". That God knew us "even while we were in our mother's womb". And loved us. Loves us still. How can a perfect being hate that which He has made?

It's taken a long time (still takes work sometimes) - but I am managing to free myself from religion and immerse myself in God.
_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

Top
#405716 - 08/03/12 02:41 PM Re: Religion. [Re: CloudyFalls]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 07:46 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

Top
#405725 - 08/03/12 03:57 PM Re: Religion. [Re: CloudyFalls]
CloudyFalls Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Ohio
MarkK, I'm not sure I understand, you're still in choir and praise teams? But you are trying to free yourself from religion and come closer to God? I think I have an idea of what you mean, but I don't want to assume anything.

bodyguard, I think I have internalized homophobia, and it's very confusing. I by no means think being gay is wrong, but for some reason it's difficult for me to be truly proud and comfortable with myself. It's not like I feel wrong or bad for being gay, it just makes me socially awkward because I don't feel comfortable. And what's more confusing is I feel like I'm both a girl and a boy mentally, I've been reluctant to really say that to anyone because I've never heard of that being something real, like I hear of transgender but not someone who's both. Idk all of this confusion makes me awkward and uncomfortable around people, I'm always wondering what they would think of me. Especially my dad, I always wonder how he would react if he saw me dress androgynous. And of course, I was definitely taught shame, and it only made it worse that I was being abused as well, as it made me extremely shameful. I remember being in catholic school where they had a homosexuality seminar on why it was wrong and all the while I was thinking what would they think of me if they knew what was going on at home, I must be so sick. It was horrible...
_________________________
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

Top
#405783 - 08/04/12 01:07 AM Re: Religion. [Re: CloudyFalls]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific
I only narrowly avoided attending a Catholic school myself; I can imagine how horrible that must have been for you. But ultimately, my parents both had different religions and didn't raise me and my siblings in either of them. Yet they and my brother shared a deeper, cultural homophobia among them that went beyond any of that.

Sadly at the same time as gay marriage recently passed in New York, the democratic mayor cut funding for gay homeless youth services in half despite the demand going up. In disproportionately high numbers, GLBT youth are being thrown out of their abusive homes and are living on the streets, often being exploited sexually. Neither presidential candidate nor the federal government is interested in addressing this. What good is marriage if you're a teenage prostitute with no place to live and no future? People don't even bother to protest against the idea of the economic rights of GLBT people who have been thrown out of society, they are just ignored.

Anyway, I bring that up because that's something I've dealt with, economic consequences of cultural homophobia. The abuse definitely made it impossible for me to come out before I was 20 years old, and then healthy relationships were a long way off still. I've never felt very connected to either gender label myself. I think it's understandable, Cloudy, that you feel you are both genders at the same time, they are people in the world who will accept for however you are or want to be, even if it isn't your father or mitt romney.

Top
#405795 - 08/04/12 02:35 AM Re: Religion. [Re: CloudyFalls]
Metolius Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 41
Loc: Oregon
It's tragic that religion and religious experience can be so tied to feelings of being judged and shamed. Especially when we so quickly fall outside the norm of what is accepted in a prevailing culture or religious organization.

I tend to think I have received the very best and the very worst that the Catholic Church has to offer. I resigned from the priesthood a little less than two years ago. I am a survivor of sexual abuse by a priest, and as I began to face the reality of my abuse at his hands, and the exploitation I suffered from a few other priests and a bishop, it became apparent it was time also to address where I stood in the church as a gay priest. The secrecy and shame that were the legacy of my abuse were perfectly mirrored in the secrecy and shame of having to hide my orientation at all times.

These days I am so angry about the inept attempts by the church to truly deal with the abuse crisis in an honest and transparent way, as well as its ever increasing homophobia and lack of openness and honesty about anything sexual, that I can't bear to take part in the life and practices of the church.

And yet I know I'm a deeply spiritual person -- and I had a number of positive influences among those who taught and guided me along the way. I'm doing a lot of sifting these days, what to keep and what to discard by way of practices and resources that are useful to me or not. I just googled the title of an article that was hugely influential in teaching me I am loved and accepted by God, no matter what, and found it's posted online. It was written at least 35 or 40 years ago by a Jesuit priest. Here's the link, if it could be helpful to you: http://onlineministries.creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/courage.html .

The bottom line of what was planted in me by this article is the following line: "I am accepted by God as I am--as I am, and not as I should be." The better grounded I am in how much God loves me and how present God remains to me, the freer I feel to explore who I am and the kind of life that honors the unique personality God created me to have.

It was helpful and encouraging to see your post and the comments that followed. Thank you for your courage and honesty. I wish you well as you ask tough and honest questions of yourself and hope you will come to know and love yourself more deeply as you let the mystery of who you are be revealed bit by bit each new day.

Top
#405822 - 08/04/12 11:31 AM Re: Religion. [Re: CloudyFalls]
CloudyFalls Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Ohio
Vadrian, you are absolutely right, issues like these are swept under the carpet, people simply don't realize what kind of difficulties our society and it's teachings have on us especially growing up. It's so much more than just marriage like you said. This is what I meant by how immense of an issue this is. Thank you so much for your condolences, I hope I can find some people in my life that will do just that, accept, love, and embrace who I am. I think that's what I need right now.

Metolius, I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you and to know it still happens today. That's another issue I have with the catholic church, is that they don't want to address this issue honestly and responsibly. I think I'm similar in a way, I too am a spiritual person, looking for what to keep and discard. For me, I believe God is personal. He reveals himself individually to everyone throughout their life. Maybe we have to search within ourselves to find God, because he's in everyone of us, as he is also in everything around us. We are all God's miracles, and for me this was so obvious when I fell in love for the first time. To see an imperfect person perfectly and see what a miracle they are. I want to thank you for your insight and wise words.

I'm always thankful for everything I hear on this site, it kinda makes me laugh. I feel like thanking everyone lol, it's just such an experience, it's so different because for once I feel like I'm not so alone anymore. And I can talk to people who have gone through a lot of the same things, and I can learn so much from the people here. I have so much respect for everyone here.
_________________________
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

Top
#405825 - 08/04/12 12:00 PM * [Re: CloudyFalls]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 11:48 AM)

Top
#405876 - 08/05/12 12:36 AM Re: Religion. [Re: CloudyFalls]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Good post CF...

FWIW, you've described the inner conflicts most of us have experienced. LOL...good news. You're normal! No, really!

Stonewall happened just as I was a teenager dealing with exactly these issues...among them a group of Jesus freaks who repeatedly tried to convince me I was the freak. One of 'em today is a homophobic intellectual at a major university, continuing to publish and pass judgment from his ivory tower. Well, live and let live. Whatever blows your skirt up.

And you'll see in some of my posts that my perp was deeply involved and respected staff with a church camp - go figure. Straight, married, kids...and a pedo to whom the church turned a blind eye.

I'm amazed that in my lifetime the GLBT community has progressed from being regularly harassed and beaten (legally) by NYC police to being able to marry, serve as bishops and serve in the U.S. military. Simultaneously, the religions which vilified me have become increasingly irrelevant as their dirty laundry has emerged for all to see (the reason many of us ended up here, right?).

For me, my approach has been to take care of my little part of the world. When threatened - it's happened plenty - I've been right back in the homophobe's face. They back off pretty consistently. Have a million stories about that. Others' talents are elsewhere.

Almost forgot to mention you can actually have a life, too! For example, we've had a GLBT athletic group here for a quarter century...baseball, running, yoga, aerobics, etc. And you don't have to be butch...lol...some of 'em have been the biggest screamers I've ever met. But we've had fun and fellowship, which was particularly important in that time when a lot of us were going to yet another funeral every month or more often.

So, yeah, it's still frustrating sometimes. But it's better. Wow, if I could be around to see the next 40 years. Find your talent in GLBT rights or just the community - it may be trial and error - but believe me, every little bit makes a difference for someone.

Top
#408702 - 09/02/12 10:49 AM Re: Religion. [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1250
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/16/13 09:33 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.