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#409142 - 09/05/12 09:59 PM Trying to believe
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3294
Loc: back in the USA
Having a discussion about the problem – no – MY problem (I notice I do that a lot – distance certain things by not using possessive pronouns or trying to reject the ownership. Often I even omit the personal pronouns as a means of self- effacement and minimizing myself. And I promised someone I would not do that anymore. I am finding it REALLY hard. ) I was discussing MY problem of feeling unworthy, disqualified, unforgiven, unacceptable, etc. to God. And I said that I know that – theoretically, objectively, theologically speaking – that is not true. I know that I AM forgiven and accepted by God - and though NOT worthy or qualified in myself, I can vicariously possess those attributes through faith in the completed work of Christ. So God sees me AS IF I am perfect – just like Jesus.

BUT – the problem - MY problem – is that I don’t FEEL forgiven or worthy or any of those other good things – just bad, dirty, rejected, etc. I know that the abuse was not my fault and i don't have to feel guilty for it. I know that the acting out that i did later was my own responsibility and i have repented of that and i know that I have been forgiven by God. But i still feel like crap! I KNOW that is not true but I want to EXPERIENCE and ENJOY that truth – not just mentally assent to the fact.

And then we talked about the unreliability of emotions and how they are not trustworthy. They have been lying to me my whole life! And I KNOW that, too. And I also know the old illustration about FACT-FAITH-FEELING – the train engine, coal car and caboose. There seems to be a common assumption from people who use this illustration that feelings are not important. They say that the train can run without the feelings caboose and it can’t power the movement of the train but has to be last if it is there at all. OK – I get that!

But I am working so hard to get back the use and connection and awareness of my emotions. They were dead and are supposed to be revived and brought back to life. I thought that was what healing means? I don’t understand why I can’t expect the good ones and positive ones to be restored as well as the negative and painful ones. Isn’t that what healthy, normal, functional people have?

So then somehow it came out that I KNOW some things but that is not the same as believing them. So I apparently don’t BELIEVE them. My T says that if I DID believe them, the feelings would more likely come along, too. I guess I am stuck at this point: how do I start to BELIEVE the things that I KNOW? Is that what is missing? Really – I am not relying on feelings – but it would be so great if all 3 – fact/knowing, faith/believing, & feeling/emotions could all be working together – all on the same page, saying the same thing. Is that too much to ask? Am I being presumptuous or too demanding of God? Isn’t that sort of what faith is – an expectation?

Lee
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

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#409151 - 09/05/12 10:51 PM Re: Trying to believe [Re: traveler]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Brother I can feel the frustration u must have. All I can say is pray about it as seek Gods will for yourself. God answers all prayers it is just that sometimes we just don't accept wait or not now as an answer. I do know that all things work out for those who believe in Christ. Also prayer with fasting something is a good sacrifice to show the Lord you ate committed. I wish the best for you.
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#409189 - 09/06/12 08:59 AM Re: Trying to believe [Re: traveler]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
Actually, Hope is an expectation.

Faith is belief in action.

You walk into a dark room, what do you do, without thinking.... you turn on the light switch. You don't think about it, you don't wonder if the light will actually come on, you simply hit the switch and go about your business with nary a thought about that light.

That's faith. I realized recently that in that illustration, I have more faith in a light switch, because I don't wonder and worry, I just hit it and it works.

I want that kind of faith in God.

You are right about knowing something vs. believing something. While they seem the same, believing in God is about faith, which adds in an element of trust.

And who in this world is going to struggle with trust more? Someone with a great family life and childhood.... or someone who has the deepest levels of trust and intimacy violated?

I struggle too. My feelings and emotions rarely go along with what I know to be true, but in that moment who do I listen to. My feelings or what I know to be true?

I've found that: fact/knowing, faith/believing, & feeling/emotions rarely are ever on the same page for me. Maybe that's just because I'm still utterly messed up and broken too. I don't know.

It's like what they say about courage. It's not the absence of fear... it's doing what you know has to be done despite the fear that tells you to run away. Human emotions are fickle. Choose what you know to be true regardless of what your feelings tell you. Yes I know that's not easy, it's my battle every day as well.

So in this, you are not alone.

Oh, and yes, as you heal and begin to truly feel your emotions again, you will indeed get the highs and lows, the good and bad (not that there really are "bad" emotions). Just right now, as you deal with this horrid mess we all have to deal with, you're going to experience the painful ones more than the positive ones. It's only natural. What we're digging in to is horrible painful.


Edited by JustScott (09/06/12 09:00 AM)

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#410804 - 09/20/12 03:45 PM Re: Trying to believe [Re: traveler]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1388
Loc: California
Seeking forgiveness from a higher power doesn't need to be determined by any one religion. Finding forgiveness is something that you can do for yourself. Indeed, it is one critical step of recovery - releasing shame, and forgiving ourselves.

I've been able to forgive my perps, and my genetic father. And I don't ascribe to any religious belief.

"BUT – the problem - MY problem – is that I don’t FEEL forgiven or worthy or any of those other good things – just bad, dirty, rejected, etc."

Self acceptance is the antidote to finding forgiveness. Once you learn to master self acceptance, forgiveness will show itself to you naturally.

That's how it worked for me.

On the other side of forgiveness, is grace. I've seen it in my own life.

D


Edited by Magellan (09/20/12 03:49 PM)
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#410820 - 09/20/12 04:23 PM Re: Trying to believe [Re: traveler]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Magellan,
None of us are worthy...We were given the gift of forgiveness when Jesus died on the cross...Then we were deemed worthy...I mean just think , He thought so much of you and I that He came and walked amoung us and then died for us... I have forgiven my perps too...I think that in order to be forgiven totally that we must forgive totally..
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#410821 - 09/20/12 04:25 PM Re: Trying to believe [Re: traveler]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1388
Loc: California
That's what you believe.

My experiences demonstrate otherwise.

D
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

Top
#410822 - 09/20/12 04:25 PM Re: Trying to believe [Re: traveler]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
Yeah u got a point...
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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