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#408953 - 09/04/12 07:27 PM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Sometimes mommies and daddies can still love each other but not really like each other. That is what is happening now. Mommy and daddy still love each other and love you very much. You are the most important things in our lives. But right now we're working to like each other as friends in the way we did before. While we're learning to get along better without fighting we'll be staying in different parts of the house. It's just a little break we need. It has nothing to do with you and we will both always love you, no matter what! (hugs)
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#409026 - 09/05/12 10:06 AM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
CndDW,

Good luck to you. I appreciate how much you poured out in these posts. You're in a tough spot, but you're not alone. And I'd go so far as to say that we all know what you're going through. I think I know what your husband is going through, too. I think he's probably clinging to the porn and alcohol because, in a strange way for him, he thinks it'll be less painful than shame and humiliation and powerlessness that he believes he will face when he confronts the truth about his past and continued abuse/transgressions/what-ever.

If you want, ask him to read my posts. I think I can identify with him. I can definitely understand the urge to create and foster a double-life, a secret and dirty and shameful life. Because it proves that he's right about himself. It proves that he's a dirty, secretive and shameful person. BUT THAT'S TRUE ONLY SO LONG AS HE DOES IT! If he wants, he can change... and accept himself. You know what? He could still watch porn and be in a relationship! If it's that important to him, why not!?! He'd just have to do it without being secretive from you! Or hurtful to anyone else! I'll bet that if he was honest about what he wanted and how he felt, he might even be able to live chat with people with you (and if that sort of thing is so important to him, with someone else if it's more than you can stand)! But... but... he can't put you and your kids in danger by drinking when he's watching them.... He can't have a secret life whose only purpose is to destroy your life together... because that's the only thing that secret life is good for. And he has to be honest about his wants, needs, feelings and what-not... not every single second but about all the stuff that's important.

Get over yourself. Get your head out of your ass. Your pain is a big deal, sure, but it's not THAT big. Is it really worth wrecking your marriage and your life? And if your life and marriage is that bad, then be a man and either make it better or end it like a man.

CdnDW, I hope I didn't step on your toes too much there.... I apologize if I did. Or if I offended you.

Bob

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#409039 - 09/05/12 11:09 AM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Good luck. Take care.

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#409045 - 09/05/12 11:27 AM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
CdnDW Offline


Registered: 08/24/12
Posts: 105
No offense... Very, very thick skin at this stage of the game. I will suggest your posts to him - but so far as he has told me, he has not yet come to this site.

Porn use itself is not the problem. We used to use it together. I remember when we were dating 13 years ago him finding out I liked to mix it up sometimes and then revealing a HUGE stash of vids he had hidden in his place. Still not red flags for me. As time went on though, our intimacy dwindled (not by my desire at all) and his porn use became addictive. Got to tbe point where he could only get off if we had sex while watching porn. Our sex life became very impersonal. He was never much for foreplay or kissing, but it got so that he only wanted to do it with me facing away from him. There was no holding each other or eye contact. Then got to the point where he was using it to masterbate multiple times a day, but then he was unwilling and unable to be intimate with me at all. He also took more and more risks. Came home mid afternoon to get in a whack (he worked in outside sales) and would hide every moment he could in his basement office viewing and whacking to porn even when he was the only adult at home with the kids. Thank god they never walked in on him!! Anyway, "addiction" was his word for it. I just wanted intimacy back and didn't mind a little porn use, but whenever he could kot control it. We'd go on vacation where he had no access to the internet and would finally make love. I'd think it was because we had made a connection with each other, sex would cease completely. I actually became jealous of his porn (which I still think is silly), but I began to feel like it was "the other woman". All this time he was using, he would go through bouts of honesty about it coupled with long period of complete denial even though I was much more skilled with the computer amd could prove his lies!

So, when we started couples therapy (it was the closest I could get him to a therapist), he would not talk about the problem or his pas at all, but only the symptomatic behaviour. He promised to give it up completely to save our marriage and has kept me under the assumption that he has done this for the past 16 months.

So this porn use is an addictive behaviour that ties back to his abuse. At least one of his abusers was the 50 something neighbourhood arena skate sharpener who would invite boys from the rink to come to his place and watch porn with him. Don't know if there was contact here, but throughout the same time period he was being sexually abused by an older brother who was violent and cruel with him as well. He kept up the appearances of being this great young hockey star, but was living with a few years of violent abuse at this point. His brother hated him, was extremely jealous and has a psychopathic temper. In his speech at our wedding (i had no knowledge of the csa and my H had him in our wedding party) he told this terrible, humiliating about my H getting so profoundly loaded on homemade wine at 13 yo, that he was found passed out in his pyjamas, in the middle of the street by a stranger and subsequently spent the next 24 hours in hospital. I was livid at the time about this supposedly "funny" razing story, but my husband laughed ot off as just stupid shit his.brother says. But I wont go further or I will loose focus. There are some days I just want to hunt down his brother who has never been held accountable or even confronted for his abuse.of my H and his younger brother, but I know it is not my fight and I would hurt my H.

In any event, whatever might get me off sometimes, I don't think is at all healthy for him. Tis is why it is such a huge, end game point for me.
I have not given up on him, but he is out of my bed and there are some pretty big walls of emotional protection up right now. If he chooses to FINALLY start therapy, I am confident I can soften these actions because I will feel like we are moving forward (even of slow), but right now he has committed to nothing. He says he.loves me more than life itself and says he.wants to save our marriage, but hasn't yet started to fight. I know it's hard as hell, but it is the only direction because he is sitting square on rock bottom right now.

Again, thanks Bob for your insight. In absence of him being willing to talk, it is such a relief to hear some of the shit that.might be rolling around in his head.
_________________________
I am not your rolling wheels, I am the highway
I am not your carpet ride, I am the sky
- Audioslave

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#409060 - 09/05/12 12:45 PM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Thanks, CdnDW, I feel your pain. I think your husband has yet to even come close to reaching the point where he'll dig deep into the real issues. It sounds like he suffered a mountain of pain. I can sure as hell identify with growing up around a 50-year-old neighborhood guy who sits around in his underwear, watching porn with the middle-schoolers. If I could go back to that guy, I might kill him. But what you're talking about is true porn addiction. The fucked up thing is that your husband sounds like he probably meant and fully intended to "keep his sexual urges" in check. He probably thought he could kill or suppress the desire. What he needs to do is understand that it's not desire at all. It's something else. It's an escape. He won't understand that until he truly understands and confronts what he's trying to escape from, what makes him feel unsafe.

You know, as a funny aside, I tried an anti-anxiety med a few years ago for the first time. It's addictive, so I don't use it anymore and never used it much. And... it was amazingly effective. But here's the funny part. When I used it, I told my therapist that it's also an appetite suppressant. I didn't feel hungry at all. She laughed, because it's not an appetite suppressant at all, but my reaction is a common one, common among some men and women, anyway! Some people mistakenly think that the sensation of anxiety is the feeling of being hungry! And so they eat to quiet the anxiety! And we keep stuffing ourselves long after we're full, because we're still anxious!

Anyway, my point is that people develop fucked up ideas about what feelings are what. I hope your husband can figure out a way to get his head out of his ass and deal with the life he has.

Good luck to you. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for being so frank and honest. I can't tell you how much it helps me to see the world from the partner/spouse point of view.

Bob

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#409085 - 09/05/12 02:51 PM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
CdnDW Offline


Registered: 08/24/12
Posts: 105
For any passerby readers, I apologise for the explicit details shared. I actually feel quite guilty about sharing this much about him as he would be mortified, but I have gotten to the point where I'm done with being silenced. I think his addiction is deeply connected to his association with sexual arousal and shame and fear of being caught. Sometimes it seemed he wanted to be caught... I think he can't connect me to his sexual dysfunction because he does love me and sex is about doing shameful, dirty things that hurt the soul but feel really good in the moment. He can't connect love with this hateful act. He wrote a song this year called Beautiful You and the lyrics go something like "beautiful you and painful me, beautiful you and hurtful me. Oh, I wish I could hide inside my Beautiful You". He posted it on SoundCloud and facebook with a couple other songs (like he was trying to bury it in the pile) but I knew as soon as I heard it that it was about us. I texted him and told him I knew this, but he didn't acknowledge or confirm.

Music has always been the only place where he lets his emotions show. It's part of what I fell in love with... This beautiful man with an incredible voice who breathed such honest emotion and sometimes anger into his performances.... It was the 90s and the height of the Grunge scene and he was the singer in a band my brother played drums with. Since then, we have come world away. We are both professionals is well paying, but not particularly fulfilling jobs. We live in a world of responsibilities to our employers, our kids, our bills and our aging parents. It is not always fun, but it is our life and I love it. I encourage his outlets that are healthy. He still sings in a band, now writes and records his own music in a home studio he build, and still plays hockey and goes to the gym regularly. But, underneath this surface of normality, there is a barely perceptible rage and fear. There is a broken child.

He has voiced on occasion that he doesn't feel it's the right time to start recovery because he fully expects he will be consumed by the emotions and unable to function. He fears he would loose his job over it AND he fears his older brother(and primary abuser) will find out and spread damage control lies about him throughout their industry. Unfortunately, all three brothers work in the same industry, and are known to many. The idea that people who currently respect him will see he is the dirty, shameful disgusting person that he thinks he is just paralyzes him. For this, I don't know what to say. I feel like "eff them!" I feel like it doesn't matter if he can't work in the same job and makes a quarter the income. I have never needed material things for my happiness... I just need him. I've told him all of these things, but he will only act when NOT taking action is more humiliating than Taking action.

Wow, phew. Every post I intend to keep it short and end up writing a novel. Guess I have a lot banging around in MY head right now. Thanks for reading and for giving me a safe place to explore this stuff.
_________________________
I am not your rolling wheels, I am the highway
I am not your carpet ride, I am the sky
- Audioslave

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#409091 - 09/05/12 03:22 PM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
I bet I have a TON in common with your husband. Especially the part about being a jock. Being a victim of abuse. Being a sometime participant in the abuse, too. I mean, let's face it. I was a confused kid, and some of the shit that I saw and did seemed "appealing" at the time. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that other people got their rocks off on me in painful and hurtful ways. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that that early sexual stuff, some of it before I reached puberty, wrecked my boundaries toward sex and intimacy and prompted me to build a double-existence, one where I usually lived and existed, and another secret and disgusting and sexual one. It pains me to say all this stuff, because the legacy of abuse is so fucking complicated with disgust and attraction.

But if he wants to get to a healthy place, he has to just dig into it for himself. If I were you, I'd give him these posts. I don't know who you are. Nobody knows who I am. But I'm not in the closet. I'm not denying who I am to anyone. This is nobody's business but mine and my wife's. My brother was abused with me. He doesn't know that I'm in therapy, dealing with my issues. I mean, he could maybe suss it out if he read these and connected a ton of dots, but I don't give a damn about that. But the last thing I want to do is spread my dirty laundry all over the fucking place.

I'm seriously glad that you replied. That you talked a bit about the particulars of your situation. It's really, really helpful to me.

Thanks again. Good luck.

By the way, grunge fucking rocks. Melancholy and rage, to me, are twin emotions. And those two emotions, plus an acute awareness, I believe, are the foundation of grunge.

Bob

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#409726 - 09/10/12 02:33 PM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
Hey CdnDW... and other people, too. How come I'm the only guy who seems to be coming back to, checking, and replying on old threads like this one? Is this all handled now? No more issues? I much prefer hashing and re-hashing shit on threads like this one rather than searching through the new posts. So... what's the deal?

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#409730 - 09/10/12 03:04 PM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
CdnDW Offline


Registered: 08/24/12
Posts: 105
Lol, not sure I'd say all has been handled smile. Busy, busy weekend! I do have good news tho... I just got a text from my guy. He's made an appt with a csa therapist for Friday! We talked a little on Sat afternoon too. One of our toughest hurdles is finding time to talk. Our lives are so damn busy and its really to have private talk time with the kids around... Esp if it could be emotional. Anyway, we seem to have found a neutral, respectful place for now. I am feeling hopeful tho.

Thanks for checking Bob. And yes, grunge rocks!!!!
_________________________
I am not your rolling wheels, I am the highway
I am not your carpet ride, I am the sky
- Audioslave

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#409737 - 09/10/12 04:03 PM Re: Boundaries versus Expectation [Re: CdnDW]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 307
I'm glad to hear it! That's great. Thanks for sharing.

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