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#408811 - 09/03/12 03:07 PM Re: Female Perpetrators [Re: Tiff]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
I meant pissed of by unequality. Of course.

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#408854 - 09/04/12 12:26 AM Re: Female Perpetrators [Re: Tiff]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
I agree.

I agree completely.

I know myself that I have rather more feminine character traits than masculine ones, but disavowing one of my traits because it belonged to either gender would be incorrect. For instance, I love young babies and children because I get on well with animals, but todlers after the age of 2, or children below the age of rationality, ---- forget it!

Likewise, i am utterly happy doing housework and like my flat to be tidy, but there are some tasks i intrinsically dislike, such as hoovering simply because I dislike them.

I fully agree on sterriotypes in tv, but again this is i think where the feminist movement is to blaime, sinse while they will be up in arms about a war film with a damzel in destresss, they won't mind a comedy about an ugly, stupid man, indeed much as I enjoy the simpsons for it's social commentary, i find the amount of serious! programs with characters like homer simpson who we are expected to take as real representations of men whhile women are seen as inteligent and independent spirited quite worrying.

Still worse, I find the s/xual portrayal of men just plane wrong. For example, while as I said I mostly enjoy the simpsons, i saw a seen the other week that absolutely appauled me, not because it was unrealistic, but because it portrayed whhat was quite obviously s/xual abuse of a young boy in a humerous light.

homer as a ten year old had met, and had his first kiss with the young marge simpson. Going back to find her at the summer camp where she was staying, he runs into her older sister, perhaps 13.

he asks where marge is, and marge's less than pleasant sister gleefully tells him she's gone and never wants to see him again. he says "we kiised, it was special" where upon marge's sister grabs homers face and forceably, and in an adult way kisses him, even though he is protesting and saying no. She then asks sarcastically "was that special?"

We are supposed to think this iss humerous, but frankly i was shocked, particularly sinse had their genders been reversed that just wouldn't! have happened (imagine a 13 year old boy forceably kissing an unwilling 10 year old girl).

Maybe this was simpsons social commentary again, indeed in other stories they have featured quite ironic portrayals of children's behaviour, but the fact that it was seen as okay I find quite disturbing, ---- and in more mainstream comedies or romantic dramas things are even worse (why can a woman hit a man for instance).

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#408873 - 09/04/12 06:05 AM Re: Female Perpetrators [Re: Tiff]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
D E: Oh I agree with you SO much about this. Havn't seen this episode of simpsons but have many other examples. Jokes about adult men getting raped by other men seems to be standard and supposedly funny. And sexual abuse against boys too when conducted by women, especially if the woman in question is supposed to be attractive.

I lost interest for a tv show (weeds) in wich a father brings his definitely under age son to a prostitute so that he should lose his virginity and the whole thing is portrayed in a way that is supposed to be humorous, the boy getting really scarred at first and happy afterwards. I was so upset by this! And it is not one single event, this occurs as a pattern in all media. The jokes about male rape and of children getting their first "sexual experience" like it was not real abuse that really affect the real people that are victimized.

The part where we seem to differ is the topic of what feminists do and don't, and that seems to be largely because of different experiences of feminist movement. Because the examples above and the all over medial advocation for this male stereotype are in Sweden really much critisized by feminists while non feminists just state that the feminists are boring, make politics out of everything and destroy the fun.

Actually the question of the humour shows and the portrayal of masculinity, male sexuality and minimized or ridiculed sexual abuse against males seem to be one of the main targets of the modern feminist /gender equality movement. So of course, for me it is really difficult to see how these problems can have been caused by feminism.

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#408881 - 09/04/12 10:21 AM Re: Female Perpetrators [Re: Tiff]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
As i said blessedcurse, I think "feminism" in sweedan is closer to what I would call gender equalitarianism, than what it is in Britain or America. in academic and political writings, in cryticism of art, heck even in literature, not to mention in the job markit and in business, "feminism" over here means basically promoting the interests of women and more often than not dennigrating those of men. Look at the way for instance in writing these days, it's no longer acceptable to use "he" as the only! pronown when referring to people generally, but increasingly "she" is used exclusively instead and this is seen as perfectly right and fine by most authors in academia.

I've never read or seen a feminist cryticize violence or abuse of a man in the media, where as the converse is utterly true. The same is also true on a smaller scale, ---- as I said above if a man so much as holds a door open for a woman he can be cryticized as being sexist, and a woman can quite freely make sexist statements about men.

Just last week for instance I heard a female radio presenter in one breath complain about adverts that still show girls playing with dolls because it "forces girls into motherhood" and then propose that men should be barred from taking the bus after nine O.clock at night "to protect women who've had a night out from them"

so, it's not right to encourage girls to be mothers, but all men are potential abusers and should be segrigated? When a male caller into the radio show actually said that he! would hate not taking the bus at night because he didn't drink, the female presenter told him that even if he did meet an unpleasant drunk he should be able to protect himself because he was a man.

this is just what I mean by the double standard of feminism, or at least what is called feminism over here, on the one hand deploring female sterriotypes, on the other keeping! those sterriotypes including demonized views of men that make women's lives easier.

I think it is quite significant that though many authors and feminists (including Jk rowling), bitterly complain at the pacivity of female characters in traditional fairy tales, ---- nobody ever mentions the lack of value such tales give to the suffering of men.


As I said,this isn't to say that things are perfect for women, especially around corporate hiering and the job markit, it's only necessary to look at the hole fashion industry to see exactly what ridiculous female sterriotypes do, ---- however where as these sorts of things are frequently and violently attacked in the media by feminists, similar abuses of men are not mentioned at all, ---- indeed many feminists as I've said take the complete opposite line and advocate! the misstreatment or denigration of men.

Obviously, even if they aren't quite as perfect in terms of recognition of abuse, this is something Sweedan does far better than either the Uk or (from what I've seen), the Us, ---- after all, where does most of that sterriotyped media come from?

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#409356 - 09/07/12 08:32 AM Re: Female Perpetrators [Re: Tiff]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
I think our main difference is where we see the root of the problem, and thus where we focus our energy in trying to change the system.

To me the root of the problem is quite obvious patriarchy and the celebration of masculinity that follows, with the degradation of femininity. I think that to make any real changes we have to focus on deconstructing the patriarchy in all its parts, wich means also getting rid of those parts of patriarchy that women in general benefit from. I think feminism historically has failed to recognize and deconstruct a lot of these parts of patriarchy that women benefit from and I think that is because feminism has been advocated almost only by women.

It is always easier to recognize the structures that are a disadvantage for you as a person or group. Therefore, I think, to put the parts of patriarchy in focus that is a disadvantage for men, men need to highlight these and take active part in deciding the direction of the feminist movement. Wich is what is happening in Sweden even though the men are not that many.

Focusing on the feminist movement as the opponent I think is just splitting the gender equality struggle, getting us stuck in this "who is the best/worst" war that will never get us anywhere, leaving lots of ground for the people who want to preserve the system as it is.

Did you read the article posted by Yerac? It is written in English and I think the surveys are from many different countries so it should be pretty representative. It says much of what I've been trying to say only in a so much better way smile


Edited by Blessedcurse (09/07/12 08:36 AM)

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#409410 - 09/07/12 04:21 PM Re: Female Perpetrators [Re: Tiff]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
I will have a look at the artical, sinse it did sound interesting.

I think due to the way that over here "feminism" has a vastly different meaning, I'd myself prefer to attack the problem at it's source rather than adopt modes of language and expression that could too easily be served to fuel the interests of one group or another.

My own belief is that even in a society characterized as patriarchal, both sterriotypes are equally damaging but in different ways.

For the feminine lack of personal power, dependence, lack of expression or freedom outside domestic relationships and a sense of self wortth attributable only by relations to others and how someone is perceived by others, eg, fashion, status, personal appearence, and worth gained from husband and chidlren.

For the masculine lack of emotion, enforced competitiveness, any personal expression limited only to power over others, and a sense of self value attributed only to what can be possessed.

Both also have their own forms of shallowness and arrogance as well, which differ slightly in tone but are similar in their effect, --- -for instance the well dressed woman looking down on the well dressed woman or man looking down on someone not of their social standing, though for the feminine this is based on appearence where as the masculine tends to base it on personal power.


So, just as it's wrong to assume for instance that "a woman's place is in the home" assessing a man only by what wage he earns (the good old provider idea), or by who he knows is equally wrong.

Of course, in both sterriotypes there also are possitive traits.

From the masculine confidence, self reliance and freedom, from the feminine compassion, emotional expression and empathy.

I'd actually prefer myself to remove this language of feminism and patriarchy, and talk instead of gender equality vs traditional values.

In practical terms this would mean attacking both sets of sterriotypes and holding freedom of personal choice and expression irrispective of gender as the core value, with the belief that any differences betwene genders bare only as much significance as individuals themselves want to give them, ---- so that for a woman who doesn't want children the fact that she could have children doesn't have any baring on her life and it's choices, eg, she is paid as much as a man doing the same job.

likewise, a man is not automatically thought of as threatening to those around him without good reason, and if a man does not possess great physical strength or wish to compete in sports or other such activities, that is not held against him.

Unfortunately, male sterriotypes are as I said not recognized as wrong over here, so while I certainly believe both are wrong, the fact that men can! be the victims of sexism just as much as women needs emphasizing, ---- albeit under the proviso that this is not as you said yourself a case of opposition.

A really good example in fact of this sort of view is the statement about abuse on male surviver and the existance of the ms website and organization itself.

it is not that on ms there is a belief that women's victimization in abuse is less important than that of men, still less a refusal to acknolidge that it happens, however ms exists primarily to support male victims of abuse simply because so many other groups in society do not.

if there was no such sexist belief about abuse, there would be no need for specific! organizations aimed at one or other particular gender of victim, ---- though of course for reasons of triggering, comfort etc there would probably still need to e gender specific areas for those who wished, (though of course that is a much different motivation than the women like my nasty lecturer who argue men are all potential abusers so abuse of men doesn't happen).

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#415066 - 11/02/12 10:07 AM Re: Female Perpetrators [Re: Tiff]
Cassialla Offline


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 7
I am actually the girlfriend of someone that was sexually abused by the females in his family from he was 9yrs old to about 12.He lost his virginity to one of those females.I just recently found this out.He is an extremely loving person,very affectionate and aware of my emotional needs.He's not very sexual tho,it comes in spurts.Sometimes I wait a whole 2weeks before we have sex only because I try to give him space because I want him to know I care and understand what he may feel toward women sexually in his adult life.But I am a woman at my sexual peak and have needs and don't want to pressure him.I try to use different methods like sex toys.I have tried to please him with fellatio but he won't let me do it and simply says that it does nothing for him.AND he just revealed to me that he is not sensitive at all down there.So I am very distraught because here I was thinking he was enjoying sex and feeling everything when he was not!He does say that he enjoys it because there's the strong emotional attachment he has with me and he loves me but he just is not sensitive there.Do you think his abuse has de-sensitized him?I am so mad at those women for doing that to him and that part of his adult life is taken away from him.Feels like the relationship will never be complete if that problem is not fixed.I want him to want me like I want him and feel what I feel sexually.Are there any ladies with this same problem?

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