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#40803 - 11/26/04 01:23 AM "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I hope you've all read the "SUICIDE" post at the top of the forum?

It's there for a few reasons, firstly to provide a list of resources that are probably better equipped to handle potential suicides than we are.

The other main point is to discourage people from making easy threats, possibly for no more than attention seeking.

But I would also stress that we would NEVER ignore anyone that we felt was in danger.

Having said that, I would like to start some discussion on the different ways that suicide affects both us and those around us.

It's something that has affected me deeply over the years, a member of my family nearly died from a paracetomol OD. My best friend, also abused alongside me at school, killed himself when he was in his early forties. I've been too close for comfort myself after acting-out. And I've lost two other friends and a work colleague due to depression / suicide.

The scariest thing I've ever heard was the family member saying to me after he'd recovered from his overdose - "once I'd made my mind up the night before, a perfect calm washed over me."
That scared the shit out of me!

But that was the result of clinical depression, and is apparently something that others have noted in the same situation.

For me it was different. After the last incident of acting-out I was so overcome with guilt and shame that I actually set about trying to kill myself.

I think?

I drove home, crying, shouting at myself, and in a blind rage deciding there was no other option.
I drove my 4x4 into the garage and set about looking for a pipe to fit over the exhaust and lead into the truck. I couldn't find one, and eventually collapsed in a heap on the floor where I remained for about an hour.
Before my wife returned home I was washed and changed and sitting reading the paper.

Was that a 'serious' attempt?
No, possibly not. My garage is well equipped enough for me to have found something, I could have driven into the river on the way home, it isn't fenced off.
But at the time I did see suicide as the only alternative - didn't I?
Well, I was also in a blind panic and rage - I realise that I wasn't thinking anything like clearly.
I suspect that suicide is something that is the product of a clearer mind than the one I had that day.
"Clearer" - NOT CLEAR!
I don't think anyone with what we would call a clear mind considers suicide.

I'm beginning to think that what I did was a 'cry for help' - but I hadn't even got the courage to let anyone see it.

It's a difficult and very emotive subject, but I believe that if we remove the taboo's that surround it, and express our.....possible desire ( ? ) for suicide, then we'll form a better understanding of the creeping desire.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40805 - 11/26/04 02:55 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Hi Dave,

I'm glad you brought this subject up for discussion.

For me, it seems that making threats of suicide in a forum like this is

(a) a cry for help (perhaps, though not a lot of direct help is available here, since we are not in physical proximity)

(b) a misguided attempt at manipulating those caring souls on this site.

Neither of these represents the true purpose of this site.

If help is needed, then ask for help. No need for 'a cry for help' like suicide here.
Help is what this place is all about. So unnecessary dramatics and threatened self-harm will get you attention and compassion from some, but also threatens the fabric of our MS community.

Which brings me to the second choice, attempts at manipulation by threatenting suicide.

I have heard the opinion many times that suicide (and threatening it) is the ultimate act of selfishness.

A way of telling everyone we know, who has cared about us--"Your efforts are inadequate, you and your love are not enough for me and so here, now take this (suicide)".

I am not sure if I completely share this view of suicide, but I do feel that it is often the act of angry people seeking to hurt others by hurting themselves.

As has been observed, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

This is not the place to deal with suicidal tendencies. Call a suicide hotline or one of the many agencies that exist to deal with such emotionally charged issues.

This is a place for healing and hope. Suicide threats take away energy needed to help the many others coming here for a bit of comfort and solace.

Each of us owes some debt to this place called MaleSurvivor. Without it, I know for sure that my own recovery from sexual abuse would have been much more difficult, if it had come about at all.

So, please, let's do a bit to help preserve the healing fabric of our community.

Our own individual recoveries and others depend upon this place.

Take the advice posted at the top of this forum. Seek professional help, talk it over in private with a friend, trusted family member or crisis line worker.

But please do not use MaleSurvivor to engage in attention-seeking, drama creating, selfish, self pitying threats of harm to yourself.

MaleSurvivor is not set up to deal with that and you will be depriving yourself and many others of the precious gift of recovery.

Does this seem harsh? Perhaps I should have phrased it more delicately, but I feel very strongly about it.

The men and women who come here have all been exploited in some way. And it disturbs me greatly to see more emotional exploitation taking place by those who will not or cannot take the steps to extricate themselves from the endless self-pity and self-centeredness of victimization.

The rush of exhiliration and flow of concern and attention that seems to come to the victim when making such threats seems to be highly addictive, in that the behavior develops into repetitive patterns.

Ultimately, the good will and compassion of the community is so abused by such acting out that a certain hardening of attitude and chilling of goodwill can occur.

You may be saying, "Well, that sure seems to be the case with you, Danny. You are very cruel and unfeeling about this subject."

In truth, I am not insensitive to the pain of others.

It's just that MaleSurvivor is not the place for threats or attempts at suicide to be answered.

There are many other places where such 'cries for help' can be handled by specialists in the field. But not here.

It does bother me and make me angry when people come here and abuse the resources and welcome given to us all.

A threat of violence, whether against oneself or others, is completely unacceptable in this forum.

And from what I understand, will not be tolerated.

Maybe, I've shared enough of my strong feelings on the matter, so I'll shut up for now.

Enjoy life and its promise today.

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#40806 - 11/26/04 04:22 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 467
Loc: UK
I think Loydy and Danny are right about this. I agree that if any of us become suicidal this is not the place to share that. Members cannot provide the support someone in that state needs. Nor is it good for us to be unable to help someone whom we have grown to care about. People need to feel safe here. I think its positive to share feelings of hopelessness and despair but not suicide plans or threats.


I had suicidal ideation from about the age of nine until about four years ago. My abuse happened in my family and for me the possibility of suicide became like the cyanide pill that some people carry going to war it was the way out, if the pain became intolerable.

My brother according to most of my family died in a freak car accident at twenty-one. Another brother and I believe it was suicide.

For me it was not a cry for help or attention seeking, I acted on it three times, first at eleven and ending at twenty-seven. I never told anyone about it at the time, wish I had been able to seek the help I needed then. Two were pretty narrow escapes; I had some liver damage but its pretty okay now. I was in a trance like state, calm, numb and peaceful. I really believed that I was doing the world a favour. I couldn’t see that I might hurt anyone by my death. I usually felt much happier for up to a year after acting out the impulses. Knowing that I was not afraid to do it ‘if necessary’ gave me a new lease of life.

The two years of therapy I did after the last attempt helped me understand why I was constantly thinking of suicide. When I had a problem my first thought was suicide, I wasn’t looking for other solutions. I felt like I didn’t need a career, house etc because I wouldn’t be around for long, even caring for my teeth seemed pointless. I took anti-depressants for a couple of years and apart from silencing the suicide voice they allowed me to see the healthier part of myself that was smothered by the depression.

My suicide ideation came from the need to escape and from the murderous rage I was holding inside me. The other part is that in my abuse I used to feel like my dad was going to kill me and I was in a crazy way trying to be in control by killing myself.

My suicide ideation is a very old habit but it is pretty much gone now, I still have the ‘cyanide pill’ but I don’t carry it around with me, its in the attic and I am content that it stays there, I don’t expect to ever need it.

I am really glad to have survived and happy to be alive. I would say to anyone who is suicidal to talk about it to someone preferably a therapist. Don’t feel ashamed of feeling suicidal that makes it worse. Do cry for help and do seek attention where you will get the right kind of help and attention. There are other solutions, we don’t need to die to kill the pain, I did not know that back then but it’s absolutely true.

Rustam


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#40807 - 11/26/04 05:31 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
A very interesting topic, and one that I think is good to discuss here. Like the others, I think suicide can fall into broad categories.

My neighbor down the street killed himself a few months ago. Had had a brain tumor which they were going to remove, and he killed himself the day before the surgery. His wife called him on the phone and he was talking incoherently, so she rushed home and found him in the backyard, having shot himself in the head. I spoke to my therapist about it, and he said that brain tumors like that can press on portions of the brain, altering the thought processes in doing so to the point that right becomes wrong, and wrong becomes right. A person could then think it is perfectly logical to kill themself, even to the point of thinking that it would be wrong not to. In the case of my neighbor, he apparently was doing what he thought was the right thing to do, equating it to something as mundane as sweeping the floor.

My brother-in-law killed himself about 10 years ago. He was divorced from my sister-in-law at the time, and they had a then-6-year-old daughter. He wrote his daughter a letter in which he told her he always "liked" her. "Liked", not "loved". Strange. Right before he killed himself, he called his mother and went through a laundry list of things she had done to make his life miserable. He then put a .22 revolver to his head and pulled the trigger. Obviously, he felt killing himself was somehow exacting revenge upon his mother.

I have a cousin who's husband killed her with a point-blank shotgun blast to the chest years ago, and then turned the gun on himself and killed himself. I guess that could be a case of "we're all going down together".

So, there's lots of different triggers and factors that lead up to the event. Some physical, some mental, some anger, etc. But I do agree that this site is not equipped to handle the threats, since we obviously are not in proximity to do anything about it, nor can we judge the veracity of the threat, etc.

_________________________
Eddie

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#40810 - 11/27/04 01:23 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
The way I understand it, there is no problem with discussing self-harm issues.

Threatening suicide is the specific taboo.

Quote:
NOTICE
Do not threaten suicide. We are not equipped to deal with crises of this nature. It puts a huge burden on others in these rooms when someone threatens self-violence and there is nothing they can do.
I'm appreciative of Dave for posting this thread as a way for us to explore thoughts and feelings about suicide in general.

It is helpful to gain some detachment and some perspective, especially about such an emotionally charged and taboo subject as suicide.

But the real issue here for me is the idea of
threatening, which implies menace or harm directed at others! and suicide which is most definitely a form of violence.

So threats of violence are not allowed here--seems pretty reasonable to me. Just because the threat is of harm to oneself does not change the fact the the threat itself is directed at the hearer/reader.

Maybe we should have another thread just about the amount of violence and threats of violence, in addition to suicide, that takes place among male survivors.

What's that all about anyway?

Regards,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#40811 - 11/27/04 01:28 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
I understand that the normal male succeeds in suicidal, because it is a means to a end, and not a cry for help.
When I was unable to work, and was being turned down for social security. I would sometimes look at my life insurance policy and think I would be a better support to my wife dead than alive. It never went farther than that. If I had lost the court case who knows? I do know I was not planning on let anyone know that I would end my life. Also I would have to make it look like a accident so the insurance would pay of.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#40812 - 11/27/04 01:47 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Avatar
Quote:
I didn't really want to die, I just wanted to end the pain.
Isn't this the classic 'cry for help'?

I don't know for sure, but the easy and quick answer must surely be "yes"
I just can't imagine wanting to die, but I can imagine ending the pain. Perhaps suicide happens when the balance of pain becomes too much?

So, if we can reduce the pain, and at the same time revitalise our lives then we're 'cured'
The trouble with that ( deliberately simplistic ) theory is that life just isn't that simple, but it's still a goal worth strivivng for isn't it?


Another aspect of suicide that is maybe particular to groups of people like us is the feelings and thoughts of revenge that we have before our planned demise.
Dissasociation is something very common to us, I certainly had it in my list of coping stratergies.
I would create long and complex day-dreams about how people would react after I killed myseld. I would compose suicide notes in my head that would be so damning that everyone who had ever crossed me would be locked up and left to rot for the rest of their days.
My friends and family would deliver glowing eulogies and I would be hailed as a hero and remembered for ever.

I think the reality would have been very different, in fact I know it would.
And as the day-dream went on this reality would creep in, and I would begin to imagine the grief and struggle to understand that the people left would go through. That wasn't vanity on my part, just experience from attending the funerals of suicide victims and talking to my brother.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40814 - 11/27/04 03:11 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
avatar Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 48
Loc: UK



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#40815 - 11/27/04 09:15 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 467
Loc: UK
I think the clichés used about suicide are taken as common sense because they are repeated so often we think they must be true. ‘The cry for help’ one in my case explains nothing. Acting out suicide impulses happens when we have stopped crying for help or hoping to get it. People may use it as a way to manipulate others in their lives but really suicidal people have given up hope of help.

The ‘attention seeking’ one is another blaming cliché. If you kill yourself you don’t get attention. It may be the case for some, but those serious about suicide are not looking for attention they have given up trying to get it. The ‘selfish act’ seems to me to be a blaming misunderstanding. It explains nothing. When someone attempts suicide even when it is not one hundred percent guaranteed to succeed they are not being selfish. They often have the distorted reality that they are doing those close to them a favour. They cannot see the harm they are doing to others and to call them selfish on top of what they are going through can hardly be helpful.

I have been close to some people who have killed themselves, the grief and guilt for those left behind is terrible but I can’t say in a couple of cases that they made the wrong decision.

What Avatar says makes sense to me and I don’t see it as selfish in the least, having suicide as an option does make life more liveable, it was a coping mechanism for me, I don’t really need it now as I said, but I don’t see it as a selfish thing.

Rustam


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#40816 - 11/27/04 11:42 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
If we do the 'attention seeking' or 'cry for help' failed attempt, and nobody gets to know about it at that time, are we testing ourselves?

Nobody knew about my failed attempts or ( maybe ) serious thoughts of suicide when I was at my lowest, so who was I doing / thinking these things for?
It could only have been for myself, so "why?"

I already felt like shit, I was so low I could see nowhere else to go. Was the suicide thing a reinforcement of that 'shit' feeling - another level of 'shit' I hadn't explored before?

It's so very hard to know if I was serious or not, if I had found a length of hose to fit my exhaust pipe would I have gone through with it?
That's something I'll never know, and therefore it makes the appraisal of what I actually did guesswork.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40817 - 11/27/04 11:48 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
bec Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 187
Loc: chicagoland area
great topic Lloydy:

i dont believe there is a simple answer for why one threatens or commits suicide. i am not a therapist so i do not know the professional explanations.

for me, there are times when the pain becomes GREAT and i feel little hope for anything better. this is when i struggle with suicidal thoughts the most.

i thankfully have never attempted it. i tell myself that my higher power has a time and place for my end and that to creat my own time/place is a violation of that power's will for me and WRONG.

also, i try to think of how such a thing would hurt the people that love me. and, how I DESERVE TO LIVE even if it is in a state of deep pain. these are the things that help me get through those times.


bec


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#40818 - 11/28/04 12:20 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I know I went through times of deep despair, I felt like nothing in the World was right, I felt that everyone was against me.

I tried to do it, but I felt it would cause so many problems if I did, I was almost there, nearly did it, didn't do it, and walked away from the situation feeling so warm at not doing it, and to express my love for my family.

I suppose they went through so much! I could not hurt them by doing it, they put up with me as a broken kid, they never understood the pain.

They never will, so many years down the line of family expecting you to just forget.

I could not live with my mind as a child, but somehow I did.

I really want to cry to my teddy, just as I did as a kid, I find it hard to cry, but crying is the only way ourt. Taking myself back to the hurt and addressing it is the only way of making any sense of the past,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#40819 - 11/28/04 02:00 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I don't know how I came to find this site....it happened whenI was at an all time low....had I not found it?????????????

I didn't think about it at the time...I wasn't thinking about anything (hence the danger of my situation at that time).

I could have been a statistic!

I'm not - thanks again..Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#40820 - 11/28/04 05:49 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Citizen James Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 1
Loc: Melbourne
I am new to this forum. And I thank whatever forces brought this site into existance.

1. The act of suicide is not an act of selfishness.
It is an act of definiteness.

2. Anyone who thinks differently is compict in the misknowledge that suicide is an act of selfishness.


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#40821 - 11/28/04 10:57 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
unknownsoldier Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 105
Loc: Northwest
I've been meaning to add my two cents for a while.

First, I'm sorry about your schoolmate, Dave. And also for all the others who have lost loved ones to suicide.

I know that when I was most recently suicidal, the thing I was most concerned about was my dogs, who would take care of them. But it crossed my mind t try to find a home for them, or even take them to the sholter so I could go ahead and die. If I had been a little bit more desparate, or if it had gone on longer, who knows. So I don't know exactly how that mixes into the debate about selfishness.

I do know that I was not looking for attention. I was aware enough that I thought if I just wanted attention then I should be a man and f*cking ask for it. So when I wanted to die I really wanted not just to escape the desparation but also I think to murder myself. I thought that people like me shouldn't be alive. I thouhgt that I was irreveribly damaged, that I had died a long time ago and that it was time to be done with this stupid mimicry of life, that it was like I was just killing my body, finishing the job that was done long ago.

So I can see that if I was just a little bit more delusional, or if something had happened in the outside world to mess up my life a little bit more, it could have pushed things over the edge.

I guess I don't think its a weakness to kill yourself, I wouldn't judge it. I also understand why the people left behind might be furious at the person.

Jim


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#40822 - 11/28/04 11:58 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
James
I think it's both things, selfish and definite.

To me the selfishness comes from the overwhelming feeling that "I want to kill myself, with no regard to those around me"
Which seems to be the main reason people are giving for backing down from suicide. It doesn't matter if it's close family, friends or your dogs, that feeling and knowledge of the distress we would leave in our wake is, for many of us, a greater feeling than the wish to end it all.

But, in many of my posts I also say that we as Survivors need a degree of selfishness, although I also say that it never be at others expense. I guess that I mean we should try and put ourselves first while we're recovering.

Suicide is a very definite act, that's a fact. But it's one where we only have so much control. After the act we have nothing.

I think I understand the degree of despair that makes suicide a serious option, and it's not a fixed thing; every person has their limit. We also have different support in place.
But once we are in the 'support' system then there should be a more open discussion of the 'suicide option' in an attempt to provide a safe escape from it.
Neither of the two people who's attempt and 'successful' ( I hate to use that word for this ) suicide quests were in any kind of 'help situation'.
My brother was given all the help he needed immediately after, and he's 100% confident that it will never happen again. It's too late for Mick.

Dave

PS. Welcome to MS James, I hope you find the support and help you might need right here.

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40823 - 11/29/04 04:08 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
COULD BE A POSSIBLE TRIGGER(S)

I think that this subject is really really great to have out in the open.

I wil tell a bit about my three attempts and try to put them in context of myself at that time.

My first attempt and my closest to sucess was at the age of 23. I had been transferred by the bank I worked for (less than a year after being a street kid and prostitute and heroin addict, and still an alcoholic.) to a small town in Southern Ontario. One fall day I was out hunting rabbits with a 303 rifle. I was walking down a road in bright sunshine and all of a sudden I just turned the rifle around and shot myself in the chest. No thinking before hand or anything just an impulsive act out of nowhere. Now as I sat on the ground about 6 feet from where the gun went off I never wanted to live more than right then. I missed everything; bone, veins, arteries, heart. Collapsed a lung and that was it. I drove myself to the hospital and bullshit my way by telling authorities it was a hunting accident. Fast forward to 1972. Married 5 years and home drunk on scotch. Had a fight with my wife. Just up and went into the bathroom and swallowed about 75 sleeping pills and washed it down with a big drink of scotch. Went out for a walk. Nicole found the empty bottle of pills and called 911. Woke up in the hospital. Spent 6 weeks in the pschiatric unit and managed to get out without revealing my past. Fast forward to 1999. October. Went to the inline skating rink. Got pissed off. Went down to Lake Ontario to think. Next thing I know I am taking off my clothes and walking into the water. Just decided to swim till I drowned. Got out about waist deep and someone from the beach asked me not to do it. Looked around and it was a guy with a dog. Came ashore and there was nobody there. Go figure.

What this is all leading up to is the fact that I was not aware of every planing any of these events. They just came out of nowhere. It was almost as if they had a life of their own. Was I crying out for help. I dont know. Was I being selfish ? I dont know. I had not planned any of them.
What I do know now is that it is not a solution to the problem but an ending. A final curtain admitting that the perps had won. And that I cannot abide now.

So all I can say is that I do not want to see this particular road taken by anyone at all. It accomplishes nothing except that the person will never be able to live life as he was meant to.

If this is triggering I apologize. Just wanted to let my brothers in on facts without dramatization or self analysis.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#40824 - 11/29/04 01:40 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i think we should never ever close the doors on cries for help here - this is just my opinion -
although attention seekers could exist - i think it is very important to take each and every threat serious regardless - as they are all indicators of depression and despair on a grand scale - and if it is attention getting then there is serious imbalance to consider -

i do not know how to manage it here(MS) but i think you have made a really great start by offering resources that cover any resources MS is lacking-
the friends here have saved me - just by their comradery- from many a downward spiral -
and so i can't imagine that in the state of despair we have to start thinking about
how we might 'cross a line'?
i dunno - i just am glad you put the resources up for people who really need them - I just don't think if someone is suicidal we should curb their expresssion of how badly they are feeling -

but i probably misinterpreted a little and perhaps overeacted ....?

Mark

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#40825 - 11/30/04 07:35 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Dave, I am relieved that MS is finally taking a stand on this issue. Quite frankly,in the last couple of years, there has been a plethora of manipulative, overly dramatic personalities that have taken up way too much time on this board with direct or thinly veiled threats of suicide. Anyone who truly feels that they want to end their life should be seeking professional help elsewhere. ... Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#40826 - 11/30/04 09:56 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
Sometimes voicing the intent is all that is needed to drain away its potency. There may be an assumption in the telling that someone will care and if someone cares then someone can hurt. If someone can hurt, then the act merely shifts your pain over to the one who cares about you and the web of life is slowly re-realized and the ideation is gradually dismantled.

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Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#40827 - 12/06/04 03:39 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
An interesting combination of thoughts on this subject. It is true that this is a moderated, online support group; not a professional therapeutic setting. If that is what is needed, the person does need to go elsewhere; if they are of the proper mindset to do so.

The one serious suicide attempt I made was not 'announced' here or anywhere else in my life, to anyone else. And it was by luck, karma, 'divine intervention' or whatever that it was not successful, although I am quite greatful of that fact now. A serious attempt a friend of mine made, same thing, it wasn't 'announced' or hinted at at all. So as Dave said, who was it a cry for help to? Our own selves? I honestly do not know I was wanting death or absence of pain. I just knew anything had to be better. Honest? The end result in the hospital wasn't better. Was sick as anything, on the breathing machine for a few days, and then not trusted at all by the people I love the most for quite some time afterward.

Yes, to announce it here, it may be the 'attention seeking'. Or even as Danny says, it could be manipulation. This site has witnessed both in my memory. I think if anyone does that, perhaps the best response to to direct them to the posted resources, and back away. Because there may be one or two people here who have sufficient learning, training and experience to help someone who is at that point, but I know that I am not one of them.

leosha

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Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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