Newest Members
lilac, The Wife Of, smusab, whiteflag, North101
12287 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
cards (33), korbin2003 (39), Rosemary (53), Zebra (47)
Who's Online
2 registered (Obi, 1 invisible), 24 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12287 Members
73 Forums
63212 Topics
442012 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#40719 - 02/04/03 11:25 PM Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Ever since I started down the pot hole filled role of recovery about 6 years ago I have been having nightmares. At first I felt like I was in a glass case looking down on what was happening to me. I could not breath and that woke me up terrified. I could have 5 or 6 of these every night. All the time that I was not dealing properly with my abuse I had no dreams. I did however, go looking for the violence and humiliation that had me by the throat. It was a re-enactment of my time on the streets as a male prostitute catering to the very rough and kinky element of so-called normal male society.
Anyway these dreams got worse and worse and I graduated from the glass case to a participant in the abuse of me and then on to me being abused. My wife has helped me through this because she could tell when I was having a bad one and she would gently wake me up. As the dreams continued I could not tell if the dream was a recall of an event or a fabrication of my imagination. I say this because I still feel drawn to the violence and it scares me. Is my mind trying to give me what I physically deny myself. This is a bad time of year because when I mountainbike or inline skate I get the pain and adrenelin rush that I need and is safe. I searated my shoulder, broke 4 ribs and badly wrenched my left knee and hip in one biking accident last summer and I have to tell you it felt great. I have always been able to wrap pain around me and make it my own. Walking out of the bush for 6 miles was the ultimate andit gave me a huge erection. I was so ashamed afterwards. Am I crazy. Sometimes I think that I am. Back to the dreams. When I have a particularly bad one I wake up with a pounding erection and that makes me feel like a piece of shit. I have tried everything that has been recommended about changing dreams and nothing works. Now they are starting to include people I know and like and they have turned into monsters. Sometimes I feel like a little child afraid to go to sleep because something will get me.

I have read about survivors and perpetrators here and it make me really uncomfortable to think that as a prostitute I may have been a perpetrator by being available for whatevery anyone wanted. Is that totally screwed up logic. I have never ever tried to influence someone younger than myself or gone looking to have an innocent involved but the low lifes I got paid by got what they wanted because I was available for them. I had absolutely no feelings for them; only the rush of the blinding pain or danger that I knew I could get. The rougher and more dangerous the situation the higher I got on the pain.
Has anyone else ever experienced this. I do not know how to break the cycle. My T has tried to work it through with me but I just go numb when I try to deal with it. I am afraid that this is one thing that I cant let go of and yet the addiction to it is the reason that I decided that my abuse was a really big thing in my life and I had better deal with it before it killed my.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#40720 - 02/05/03 09:13 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Has anyone else ever experienced this. I do not know how to break the cycle. My T has tried to work it through with me but I just go numb when I try to deal with it. I am afraid that this is one thing that I cant let go of and yet the addiction to it is the reason that I decided that my abuse was a really big thing in my life and I had better deal with it before it killed my.
Mike, I've only been in recovery 18 months, and the nightmares I had pretty much came & went years ago. What I had to deal with was flashbacks,
which are a bit different. Not much problem with those anymore, for now anyway.

What I do very much relate to is my addiction being the reason I decided, or discovered, abuse was a big issue in my life I needed to deal with before it ate me up from the inside out. The difference is that my addiction is to fpm (fantasy, porn & m*sturb*tion).

But like you I don't know how to break the cycle. Or maybe I should say I know how but I've been having a hard time acting upon what I know, instead of just continuing to act out or numb out.

Sometimes it seems like the 12 step work, the online (and now live) support, the readiing, the therapy, etc, is really helping. Sometimes this still seems like that one thing (or main thing) I can't let go of. Or don't want to? Or am scared to? I guess overall I'm making progress...

I hope you are too. Mike, you've probably tried more groups & therapies & books than I have. But I don't like to assume. I've heard that some of the concentrated therapies like EMDR or TIR can be helpful in dealing with nightmares, and wonder if you've tried or thot of trying such therapies.

Maybe someone else who's been thru something more similar to what you're experiencing can offer more help. But know that you are not alone in your struggles, fellow survivor. Take care.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#40721 - 02/05/03 11:05 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
al Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 143
Loc: canada
Mike
I could have written that myself except I've never been mountainbikeing plus add daymares for me -- even the antipyschotics don't take complete care of those.

It is so weird to see someone going through the same thing as me. Hard to admit but I have the same types of dreams, wake up with an erection too. And I hate myself for it, feel so ashamed. But what I think it is, is that when the climax finally happens, it is over -- the abuse ends or at least the worst of hte pain. I used to do whatever I could to make them climax faster so it would be over. Marc's brother tortures me with suggestions that I liked it. I didn't like it, I hated it. But I did what I had to do to survive. Maybe this is how your mind is dealing with it too. I know when I am in allot of pain, deep down I think it's good because one of two things is going to happen -- one it will just get worse and kill me, or two the punishment is over and I am released from responsibility of the crime.

Don't know if this helps but just my thoughts.

Alan

_________________________
Those who dance appear insane to those who cannot hear the music. Mark Kleiman

Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. Winston Churchill

Top
#40722 - 02/05/03 11:49 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
Victor, you said:
Quote:
Mike, I've only been in recovery 18 months, and the nightmares I had pretty much came & went years ago. What I had to deal with was flashbacks,
which are a bit different. Not much problem with those anymore, for now anyway.
How did you get rid of the flashbacks?

_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

Top
#40723 - 02/05/03 01:31 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
MrEdd, I used to have flashbacks years ago, but they have abated. I have a theory, but don't know for sure if it's correct. But here goes: just as the mind gets forgetful with old age, or a computer's hard-drive gets full and kinda slow, so works my theory. I am suggesting that if you fill your mind with heaps and heaps of good memories by just going out and experiencing happy and healthy things, then eventually, in time, the bad flashbacks are pushed to the back of the pecking order. I know this sounds super simplistic, but I think there is some truth to it. Maybe we need to quantine our bad memories as much as we can, then get on with living and looking forward. Peace, Andrew


Top
#40724 - 02/05/03 03:52 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
MrEdd, Mike, Al:

Just wanna toss out some links & a few helps here:


Some links with many good helps:

http://www.stardrift.net/survivor/helping/tsld016.htm

http://mysteryicebengals.tripod.com/id45.htm

A couple of good piece on flashbacks, also nightmares & triggers:

http://www.survivingtothriving.org/triggers

http://www.crcl.org.uk/flashbacks.html


Brief helps from The Mental Health Sanctuary:

Nightmares and day mares are normal for PTSD. They are actually part of the flashback set of symptoms. And I believe they are from a healthy part of people. It is one way your mind is trying to master your trauma (s).

You see, when something happens to people that is overwhelming; they cannot digest or integrate it at the time. But you still need to do that. So your mind continues working to digest this awful event. Kind of like you digest a big meal. One side effect of digesting an overwhelming mean might be heartburn or indigestion. Similarly to that, you have flashbacks while your mind is trying to digest your traumatic event.

Re-framing your experience can help somewhat. Most people are horrified by their flashbacks and judge them as symptoms of 'craziness'. That simply is not the case. Flashbacks are healthy and normal.

Self-talk also works somewhat. What you do is figure out all the logical reasons why you are safe from and no longer vulnerable to the traumas that happened to you. Then you make statements to yourself as if you were your best friend. Some ideas for self-talk in this situation are:

* You are safe now.
* I can take care of you.
* Give yourself your reasons why you are safe.


More detailed tips from http://www.oneinfour.org:

Coping with Flashbacks
If you are finding flashbacks or intrusive thoughts and images difficult to deal with here are some practical steps to help you deal with and cope a little more effectively.

1. Tell yourself you are having a flashback and that this is okay and very normal in people who were traumatised as children (or as adults).

2. Remind yourself that the worst is over - it happened in the past, but it is not happening now. The' child' inside you who was abused is giving you these memories to use in your healing and, however terrible you feel, you survived the awfulness then, which means you can survive and get through what you are remembering now.

3. Call on the 'adult' part of yourself to tell your 'child' that they are not alone, not in any danger now and that you will help them to get through this. Let your child self know it's okay to remember and to feel what they feel and that this will help them in healing from what had happened to them. However hard it is for you, your “child” is communicating in the only way he or she can.

4. Imagine that the images that you see are on a TV screen. Turn the sound down, turn it up again, turn the TV off so that the images fade away. Remember that you can choose whether to remember and re-feel.

5. Try some of these ways of 'grounding' yourself and becoming more aware of the present:

· stamp your feet; grind them around on the floor to remind yourself where you are now.
· look around the room, noticing the colours, the people, the shapes of things
· listen to the sounds around you: the traffic, voices, the washing machine, etc.
· feel your body, the boundary of your skin, your clothes, the chair or floor supporting you
· have an elastic band to hand (or on your wrist) - you can 'ping' it against your wrist and feel it on your skin - that feeling is in the now, the things you are re-experiencing were in the past.

6. Take care of your breathing: breathe deeply down to your diaphragm; put your hand there just above your navel and breathe so that your hand gets pushed up and down. You can also count - to 5 - as you breathe out and in. When we get scared we breathe too quickly and shallowly and our body begins to panic because we're not getting enough oxygen. This causes dizziness, shakiness and more panic. Breathing slowly and deeply will stop the panic.

7. If you have lost a sense of where you end and the rest of the world begins, rub your body so you can feel its edges, the boundary of you. Wrap yourself in a blanket, feel it around you.

8. Get support if you would like it. Let people close to you know about flashbacks so they can help if you want them to. That might mean holding you, talking to you, helping you to reconnect with the present, to remember you are safe and cared for now

9. Flashbacks are powerful experiences, which drain your energy. Take time to look after yourself when you have had a flashback. You could have a warm, relaxing bath or a sleep, a warm drink, play some soothing music or just take some quiet time for yourself. Your "child”, and you deserve being taken care of, given all you went through in the past.

10. When you feel ready, write down all you remember about the flashback and how you got through it. This will help you to remember information for your healing and to remind you that you did get through it and can again.

11. Remember you are not crazy - flashbacks are normal and you are healing.


Hope you find some of these helpful. I have.

Take care.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#40725 - 02/05/03 05:03 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Great ideas Victor. Thanks. Peace, Andrew


Top
#40726 - 02/05/03 05:48 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Andrew, you're welcome.

Those ideas, some of which I've used and some of which I haven't (yet), are summed up pretty well in what you shared:

"...fill your mind with heaps and heaps of good memories by just going out and experiencing happy and healthy things, then eventually, in time, the bad flashbacks are pushed to the back of the pecking order...Maybe we need to quantine our bad memories as much as we can, then get on with living and looking forward."

How true. Hopefully some of these ideas from all over the place well help. Might even help me, my flashbacks have slowed to a trickle but it's too soon to say they've stopped yet. At least it's not the "flash flood" it was for several months in 2001-2002!

Glad yours have abated, Andrew. I wish that for everyone here.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#40727 - 02/05/03 09:25 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thanks everyone for the replies and support. I am so afraid of this addiction that I cant seem to shake. It is much like heroin was. The reason for heroin addiction is that the first time is like nothing else that you have ever experienced. It is like your whole being is turned inside out and really alive. Unfortunately it only happens once and then you chase after it till you kick the habit or die. With the violence I think that although I hated it it was something I was used to because of my early childhood. When the sexual element was added it was like wow they really want me and them the rush from the endorphins was overwhelmning. I knew it was wrong as I knew heroin was wrong but what a high. This continued in my life on the street. I found that I could manipulate the customers by either being high on heroin or booze or both because this would infuriate them because I was imune to the pain, or so they felt. In reality I was cocooned in the pain. So I ask who was the agressor or perpetrator. ME or THEM. God that bothers me, I think sometimes worse than anything else. Was I fulfilling their needs. I dont think so. I was feeding my addiction. On a given week at the height of my prostitution I would have 12-15 clients in a week. I wish that that part of my memory could be deleted as you would a file. I find that the movies I watch are filled with sexual innuendo and violence and I get erections it theatres or watching TV. Them I feel so guilty. I try to put it out of my mind but when I do I find that I punish my body by myself. Today, for example, I really pushed my body at the health club and the pain I felt was intoxicating. I am so sore now and it still feels great. I guess the best way to describe it is that I feel totally alive when it happens and I seem to wait expectantly for the next time. When I read about abuse of others by whoever I become enraged at the perpetrators and the judicial system for lack of conviction most of the time. I could cheerfully murder any and all perpetrators but only after they experienced what they did to others for at least 6 months. That rage is for the innocent but I dont feel the same about the abuse I endured as a child and as a teenager. God I am so screwed up in this. I just cant think straight about it. I feel like a dumb moth being drawn to the flame. I know it is wrong but the hunger is immense.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#40728 - 02/06/03 11:56 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
Thanks for the link Victor. My Bipolar has Re-emerged and I haven't slept in 51 hours. No problem though - I'm not sleepy, Just weepy.

_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

Top
#40729 - 02/06/03 01:30 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thanks for the advice. I have tried everything before and cannot get over this addiction to violence. I avoiding it but it now intrudes onto everything I do and think. All the issue around being a hooker and manipulating people to my advantage. Help

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#40730 - 02/06/03 04:57 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
__________

CAUTION
__________

I wrote this recently and to me it seems to fit in this discussion. Here it is:

______________________________________________________________________________

The skill that I need to be in place before doing such regression work is the skill of being able to put one foot in the past while maintaining one foot in the present(the here and now where the abuse is no longer occuring)

During the earlier period of my compulsive sexual acting out, I was doing things that shamed myself. Things that repeated or reinforced the feeling that that behavior was all I was good for and how I defined myself. I was impotent with my mother, and my brother showed me what i was worth as a man and how I could be used. I knew how to make men, perfect strangers, spend time with me. Male friendships were terrifying for me. While I couldn’t perform well sexually wih women, I could wow them in about every other way. Much like how I learned to wow my mother. The 0ne-two punch of what my surrogate father did to me, and what my mother had done to me left me with such sexual confusion that I never had a chance to sort it out with the only skills I had as an adolescent. The Alfred Hitchcock film , Psycho was the nearest thing I had to a role model for how to deal with my traumas. It was a surreal life with a surreal mother and a surreal big brother/dad. I was a surreal kid image juxtaposed next to the image of my mother in her bed with her hand “LOVINGLY” (right ? !!! please....) inside the waistband of my Fruit of the “Womb” briefs. As empathetic as I was to the character of Anthony Perkins, that was not me. The massive nuclear explosion of impossibly silent impotent rage was me. With hormones raging, resignation to the fury of impotent rage left me numb and dissociating and wandering in the shadows at night many years later. I was the tragic figure of a gothic vampire wandering the streets devoid of hope and long lost humanity only to re-enact my sexual traumas from my adolescence as if i were trying in some way to figure out how to get it right this time. The piece I could not actualize was that I was not an adult man when it first happened, so I was still trying to understand with the skills and remnants of warped magical thinking of an emotionally anihilated adolescent.
What I encountered on the streets was others like me, that many of whom, I believe, were resigned to the same self-destructive and hopeless lot we were all assigned. We were the blind leading the blind into deeper shadows, knowing well where the dirty secrets of this driven folly would lead us . My fellow driven and willing victims. We were ships at first passing in the night, then heading for the same iceberg whose depth of foundation was unfathomable. We were moths fatally drawn to the flame. From my bed with my wife, I would compulsively and stealthly bolt upright resigned in revisited terror in flashbacks. I had brought to our bed my seedy contamination of it and my shame. I did not deserve her love, and I tried to prove it.
They didn’t seem like flashbacks in the way I expect flashbacks to occur. I expected to be able to describe flashbacks as coming out of the blue. They didn’t and still don’t occur that way. Its more like a parallel universe that is kept apart from the here and now by a transparent osmotic membrane invisible from the side of the here and now, and opaque from the vantage point of life in the past lane. I’m suddenly into wrote>

Top
#40731 - 02/06/03 07:50 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
RJD
That must be the most haunting account of acting out I've ever read, it made my skin crawl as I recognized where I'd been, how I felt and why I was there.

You write about "My fellow driven and willing victims." - those that we meet, or met. And I have sometimes wondered just who they are.
I know that in something I wrote long ago I called them "PERVERTS" ; it's probably what I wanted to believe at the time. But I now believe that many of them are just like us, victims who remain trapped. Maybe some will have the courage to join us. I hope they do.

The movie "Manhunt" was on TV here only a few nights ago, and I love Michael Mann ( Miami Vice ) films so I watched it again.
The first time I saw it was when it came out, long before I started recovery and I viewed it as a thriller without understanding any of the dynamics of the Tom Noonan character 'Francis Dollarhyde'.

But the other night I lived it, my wife kept looking across at me as I sat sweating and tensing up in the chair. I recognised little bits, movements and phrases, and realised just how close we come to the edge sometimes.
It's a great movie, and I'll watch it again - even buy it maybe - but it needs to be handled with care.

The character of Francis is one of the most disturbing bad guys ever created, he is stereotypical to a degree for the publics consumption I agree, but someone - either Michael Mann, or the author of the novel it's based on Thomas Harris, has a very clear understanding of the mind of a perpetrator.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#40732 - 02/08/03 05:53 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
In a P.M. this is part of what I said to Dave. "Thanks Dave I crave that kind of feedback. You have helped me with your honesty both here and in the past...."
Here is another piece that continues from what I wrote from above.


I had read books that talk about the child within while I was still sexually acting out. I was holding other men accountable for their behavior and violence in their lives. Yet I was still acting out my secret life, another form of violence and lack of respect for myself and those I loved.

On one such shadowy night I slipped out of the house succumbing to my obsessive compulsion and went cruising to live out my victimization once again. I knew it was the shame of it I was drawn to, but to know this didn’t seem to halt the behavior. It was the profound shame that was inseparably tied to sexual stimulation and secrecy that was my opiate. As I drove near the place of icebergs, I was feeling powerless. I felt so undeserving of life itself, and the proof was happening again.

Instead of fighting it, which always feeds the flames I was drawn to, I suspended judgement for a moment. Detachment comes all too easy, but this time was a little different. I decided to just look at what I was doing. I took a skeptical but somewhat caring (adult as I now see it) stance. With the frustration, anger and impatience I as a child, had learned to expect from adults, I asked this so called child within,“ O.K. Bobby what do YOU want to do here.”

Instantly I was in abandon and tears pleading,”I want to go home.” "I don't want to do this anymore." I had to immediately pull over. I cried and cried tears from a place deep, deep inside. I cried for another 20 minutes then drove home. Things started changing in my life around my acting out behavior.

I had learned to force him ( Bobby ) to do what he didn’t want to do. I then was able to experience the knowledge I never really wanted from my brother what he did to me. Sexual stimulation was too powerful an experience for me to be able to deal with as an early adolescent, late pubescent. I needed my brothers mentorship, his love, his esteem. I did not need to experience my maleness as something to have contempt for, or to see it as a mirage as he and my mother needed for me to believe. I did not need to be used sexually and have that as my only worth.


Top
#40733 - 02/08/03 06:50 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
RJD

Quote:
On one such shadowy night I slipped out of the house succumbing to my obsessive compulsion and went cruising to live out my victimization once again. I knew it was the shame of it I was drawn to, but to know this didn’t seem to halt the behavior. It was the profound shame that was inseparably tied to sexual stimulation and secrecy that was my opiate.
Once again you hit the nail on the head, acting out isn't about sex, it's confirming our place at the bottom of the shit pile.
We were used as kids, and it doesn't matter one bit who did what to us the important thing was, and still is, the abuse of power.

They tricked us, forced us, bribed us, beat us and lied to us. Their older intellect had an unfair advantage on us. Most times we loved or admired those that abused us - why the hell weren't we going to believe them ?

We did believe them, and we kept their secret safe for so long. Why ? because we knew no different at the time, and as we grew up we became ashamed of what happened to us because we hadn't learned otherwise.
Our distorted thinking told us we were 'participants' and because we also realised it was wrong and dirty we thought "this is how I am, I'm just like them" So we continue their cycle.

Sex is just a vehicle that carried the shame and guilt. I know I never enjoyed the sexual aspect of acting out, it was always fleeting and disgusting.
It was a very minor part of making myself feel bad about myself.

Even a minor frustration ( not just sexual frustration ) could, and still can, kick it off.
Today I was working in my garage and I needed 4 small nuts and bolts. I could only find 4 bolts and 3 nuts. I looked some more and found a slightly different size - 3 bolts and 4 nuts. And so it went on for about 2 hours. As I got frustrated with all this I could feel the acting out urge creeping in, the hint of sexual thoughts coming on stronger the more frustrated I got.
I went up to the house and made a coffee, back down and drilled the holes bigger and fitted bigger bolts - problem solved.
But I can remember a time when it would have led to me closing the garage door and masturbating or worse, driving off and cruising.

The point is that I was feeling bad, inadequate for not having the right stuff to hand when I needed it. Then I began to lose it and not think straight and the distraction behaviour started.
I felt bad, and I was about to make it worse.

The 'Joy of Sex' had nothing to do with it, and I dont think it ever had.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#40734 - 02/08/03 07:00 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
Amen Dave...


Top
#40735 - 02/09/03 04:14 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
When I was at my worst and acting out almost daily my job ( I still have the same one ) meant I was driving around on my own and basically unsupervised. I could lose myself and soon justify it with my 'magic pen'.
This real bad period lasted about 4 years, but it had built up over many, maybe 20 years.

When I started therapy I would tell my T that it was "boredom" that created the situations where I would act out. And I clung to that idea for a long time, believing it to be the sole cause.

So I started listening to news and chat radio instead of just music. I tried books on tape - no luck. It wasn't boredom.

It might well have been a part of the deal, but probably no more than providing the window of opportunity.
The bigger causes were loneliness, and the thought of human contact, which is why the cellphone became so important to me.
Loneliness is so different to being alone. I can cope with being alone for the most part, but I hate feeling isolated and out of touch.
Abuse does that to me, I feel different therefore I feel alone. (Not any more though ! )

The need to degrade myself, which I didn't understand at that time, was also a major thing.
And very slowly I started to put myself down, and it felt good because then I had nothing to live up to, life was easy. But it doesn't last.
Unfortunately I can see a close friend going down this path for different reasons, a bad divorce.
His answer to everything is "fuck it, what do I care" and he's getting so he wont do anything.

I can remember that state clearly, I went to work and did the minimum, came home, ate dinner and watched TV. And all that down time gave me time to sit and fester, dwell on how fucking useless I really was. So as a distraction I started the next days fantasy and planned my acting out route.

I suppose the why's and how's of dealing with it all are very much a 'what came first - the chicken or the egg ?' situation.
And I just don't know. But I do know that making the decision to get help led me to understand myself a lot more. I gained confidence and started to do other things, which distracted me from the life I was leading. Now I haven't got a spare minute.
Have the new distractions displaced the acting out, or have I learned new things by being a survivor that have enabled me to do those other things ?

And one more important question - do I care ??
If it works, that's fine by me !

Dave ;\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#40736 - 02/09/03 04:48 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
OneWithStrength Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 5
Loc: U.S.
Well i guess i just wanted to reply to all of you by saying i do to understand mostly what you have said and i am trying this out for the first time because just like all of you i am sick of myself and my thoughts. see it all started with me when i was a kid (7 to be excact) and i guess i have done nothing but try to run leave all of my problems on the back burner. Until now FUCK IT ,nothing is getting better only worse and worse everywhere i go i fuck up i can't hold a job, i can't not lie about myself to make me look like someone who isn't fucked up and won't admit it cause i mean who really wants to admit there shit is wacked i mean the things i don't quite understand is the being turned on state of mind that some of you recieve by your thoughts but maybye it's in a different way i mean i am sex addict,when i was a kid i knew the shit my pops was doing was wrong and i hated and feared him then kinda like now 25 and still scared, shit has got to turn around here soon!!! but i just wanted to say thank you to all you guys out there who is posting there reply's cause it does help .

_________________________
One With Strength...

Top
#40737 - 02/09/03 06:57 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi One,

There is no human being who is normal who would not be terribly harmed mentally and often physically by what happened to us.

There is a huge difference though. There a lot huge number of people walking around our nation who are at least as messed up as wwe are but are to dense to realize it--or so harmed, they just can't admit it.

Terrible things happened to you One. There is no way yo0u wouldn't have problems. But you are admitting them, you admit you know where at least some of them come from and I suspect you will begin to methodically work on them with the help of a therapist.

One, you have no idea how much energy you have to do the hard work of healing, energy that guys like myself are too old to come up with. You are bright and heroic to work on your problems now. And by the way, lately, there have been a lot of new members between the ages 20 to 26 or so. You have a lot of company here.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

Top
#40738 - 02/09/03 09:45 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Dear OneWithStrength,
You are a Survivor like we are. We are here to support you and we need your support as well. I am sorry you suffered the trauma of abuse. We have too. This has caused such untold damage in our lives that many of us could not feel "normal" or like other guys. Many of us have acted out in various ways which have left us feeling cheap, dirty, disgusting, unclean and most of all guilty and ashamed. We have suffered from depression, obsession, addiction, isolation, etc. I know this has to sound familiar to you, as it did to me when I first found this MaleSurvivor site. But I found a Brotherhood of men who understand me and what I have been going through all of my life, all alone. Now I am no longer alone, I have Brothers who can give me wise counsel, comfort me when I feel bad, and listen to me when I feel lonely and afraid. This is what you have here too. You have our support. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is helpful to others who see themselves in the story you relate. it gives hope of healing and recovery to others who may have felt they were alone and the only one who felt like this. Hang in there. You are on the right road. Sincerely, Jess.


Top
#40739 - 02/09/03 10:42 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
Hi OneWithStrength,
I also want to welcome you here. Sorry it has to be the profound sense of shame and pain that brings you here, it is the link we all have in comon that we had no choice other than learn to carry. It is our perpetrators that coersed un into carrying it by the nature of a trusting relationship. What we learned is that "trusting" and "relationship" cancel each other out. It is not supposed to be that way. You are welcome here as our individual paths converge on these pages. We have much to learn from each other in our time here. You are already a teacher. We teach each other our truths.


Top
#40740 - 02/10/03 10:08 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
One With Strength:

Welcome to MS. I'm not glad for why you're here, but I'm glad you're here for why you're here. This is a great place for recovery, a true brotherhood of male survivors.

Just posting here took a lot of courage for you, and gives a lot of courage to us. Thanks.

Take care

Victor


_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#40741 - 02/10/03 03:03 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
OneWithStrength Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 5
Loc: U.S.
I am writing this to Bob, RJD, Jess and Victor. I am going to start by saying thank you very much for your replies. It helps me incredibly. Yesterday I didn't know what to expect out of this post. My mom woke me up this morning and told me to check it and at first I did not figure it was going to turn out like it did and I'm incredibly happy to know I am not alone.

To answer some of your replies, you are never too old to get by this. I might be only 25, but I feel like I'm 50 sometimes. All of us here obviously have the energy and the want to, to get through this shit, that the people we love the most, have put us through. There is no doubt in my mind that all of you in here are survivors just like me and also no doubt that we will all get through this shit together because now I see the love in this room and how much it can actually help me to hear other people with the same problems.

Most of my problems have resulted in me getting arrested, me getting kicked out of my home, losing jobs, shit, just call me "can't get right". All this shit because I haven't be able to see the real solution to my problems. The real solution is opening up my heart and letting all of you strangers know about who I am. Sometimes I just hate myself and wish I didn't have to go through this shit. I feel like a freak show, but it is okay because I found you all. Thanks.

No more excuses for myself. It is time to change.

Shaun

_________________________
One With Strength...

Top
#40742 - 02/10/03 06:55 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
I stand and salute your courage my brother. Again Welcome. I envy your early start.


Top
#40743 - 02/10/03 08:50 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I once had a boss who told me I would cry at the opening of a K-Mart. It is a small exaggeration.Many of the posts here bring me to tears--it is good, cleans out my dry eyes. Thanks much.

Shaun, I hope that you can change those things you are saying to yourself. Shaun, you are a precious man who as a child had the worst thing possilbe happen to you. You are not fucked up. You are showing the evidence of a child who was harmed, nothing more or less.

I see us like a big mound of clay that we have been working on. It has no beauty--except in potency--in what it can and will become. We have to handle ourselves carefully or we wreck what we have already accomplished. We may change our minds several times before we know for sure what we want to make with the clay--ourselves.

Shaun, remember, there was a day when you were a beautiful, darling little baby. Everyone who looked at you wanted to hold you and kiss you and hug you close to them. You are still everybit as loveable as you were in those days of your infancy. You have been smashed and twisted and right now you just see the pile of clay. But believe me, your beautiful baby is in that mess, waiting for you to mold him into the fine man he has grown to be.

Dave and Mike and the guys who worked the streets. I worked them in a different way. You were driven to do what you did--you were going to do something and that is the way you went. There could have been MUCH MUCH worse ways to go--you know it. I have never meet a woman of the street who said she just loves going out and being purchased property. Everyone of my ladies had a story of the most god-awful things that drove them. I think that fancy call ladies might be different. But not the street folks.

The guys who used you probably needed you. Maybe some of them we cruds who just used you. But I am willing to bet that they truly apprecaited you and hated themselves because they needed to pay to feel someone, anyone, could show them anything that even vaguely approached affection or acceptance. Hard as it may be for you to see it, you have no idea what it is that you may well have kept them from--and for some, you may have saved their life on a night of extreme self-loathing.

I know you would puke if I told you I think you need to see that as very much less awful than you do. But it is how I feel.

I know you now, today. You are precious guys, wonderful men. We have had several guys who have posted here who did what you did. I just believe you can see that as a past that just was not a free choice for you. Today, today, you are great, loving courageous men. Let's celebrate that.

Dave, it sounds like you have a terrific wife. I hope I meet her someday if you are on this side of the pond.

Peace to all.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

Top
#40744 - 02/11/03 01:43 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
OneWithStrength Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 5
Loc: U.S.
Today i called a counselor , i am on my way !!
I know it will be a long journey but i am so ready !! thanx Bob, quite inspiring words i too am a very emotional man it's all good !
me and my mom sit and cry on a good movie and i am nowhere near fem , we just have got good hearts , hang in there bob we are all on our way !!!!!

_________________________
One With Strength...

Top
#40745 - 02/11/03 01:58 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
Great news OneWithStrength.

Sure are living up to your nickname.

Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

Top
#40746 - 02/11/03 05:14 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Shaun - OneWithStrength,

Good for you, Shaun! I am very happy for you. You are on the right road. It took much courage for you to write your post here. It took a lot of courage for you to include your mom in what you are going through. It sounds like your mom is a wise, wonderful and supportive lady. You are very lucky you have her with you. Finally, you have shown great courage and have taken a great step in your own recovery by finding a therapist. You will find healing and recovery as you work with your therapist. Remember to share all the good things so that others can find encouragement from your successes. As they read your story they will also find the strength to face their own fears and start on their roads to recovery. We support each other around here. Be well, Shaun. Jess


Top
#40747 - 02/11/03 11:03 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Most of my problems have resulted in me getting arrested, me getting kicked out of my home, losing jobs, shit, just call me "can't get right". All this shit because I haven't be able to see the real solution to my problems. The real solution is opening up my heart and letting all of you strangers know about who I am. Sometimes I just hate myself and wish I didn't have to go through this shit. I feel like a freak show, but it is okay because I found you all. Thanks.
Shaun, I could have written this about myself, right down to getting arrested, getting kicked out of more than one home (yes I took the advice of The Village People and spent some time at the Y-M-C-A! ), losing jobs, and feeling like a freak, an outcast!
Shaun, my long-time theme song & favorite song has been "Couldn't Get It Right" by The Climax Blues Band!

But like you I'm also finding the solution, learning not to hate myself, beginning to find love & support--and so much of it is right here! I'm glad you're finding it! I'm glad I found it!


BTW, Shaun, I'm also glad you've found a counselor
and that you have a supportive mother. Nothing to take for granted, that's for sure--and I can tell you don't! Good for you.

Quote:
No more excuses for myself. It is time to change.

Shaun
Some good friends have been trying to get that across to me lately. So that goes for me too, Shaun. Thanks & Take Care. \:\)

Victor


_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#40748 - 02/11/03 11:22 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Victor & Shaun,

Quote:
No more excuses for myself. It is time to change.
Change always causes discomfort and anxiety. I would add.. change never happens until we are too uncomfortable to remain as we are.

Quote:
There is no courage without anxiety - Dr. Jan Foudraine .
Peace, Andrew


Top
#40749 - 02/11/03 12:59 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
I would add.. change never happens until we are too uncomfortable to remain as we are.
Exactly, Andrew--and I'm going from "comfortably numb" to "uncomfortably numbed"! The reality of my present pain is becoming greater than the imagined & probably unlikely future pain of the hard work, surgery & recovery my healing will require.

Thanks for adding the good words Andrew. Take care.

Victor



_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#40750 - 02/11/03 01:20 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Good luck Victor! You deserve the best. You contribute so much to everyone else's recovery, that karma dictates your road will be a fast track to some peace and serenity. ... Andrew


Top
#40751 - 02/11/03 02:07 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
this is like a good movie where we cry a bit and it has a happy ending.

The end is yet to come, but I think I might have seen this movie before.

Dave
PS. Vic' I like your taste in music, The Climax Blues Band are still gigging around these parts, and they're a blast to see live.

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#40752 - 02/11/03 04:05 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
This to everyone who has posted. It does not matter whether you are 25 or 90 we are on the same road, each and every one of us. We are bound together by the commonality of what happened and in a kind of sad way that makes me happy to know you all. We are all brothers in this and keep remembering that WE WILL WIN no matter what. It does not matter where you are on the continuum in your recovery. What is important is that no matter what slips occur or roadblocks we are faced with we will perservere. To do otherwise THEY WIN. If you are young physically like OnewithStrength or older like myself we have bonded in a common purpose and that is to reach an inner peace with the child within us all.And OnewithStrength you may be young but are old well beyond your years in what you have had to endure. So are we all. Remember everyone that We support each other here without judgement and with compassion. Everytime one of us wins just a little bit we all take joy in the accomplishment. Someday we will all see the stars.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#40753 - 02/11/03 05:01 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
OneWithStrength Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 5
Loc: U.S.
You guys are great man, really ! I do feel a significant bond with all of you for sure !!
there is just so much compassion and concern in all of you ! wow!!anyway, on with my update of myself ! i have a app. with a counselor on the 28th i am trying to get in sooner but just waiting on a few options to come through , but until then you guys are my therapy kinda,but more like my outlet to life ! as this life thickens into a deep dark place i will soon see the light
i know this in my heart there is no other way the time is near and the battle is on , my thoughts a lttle poetic i guess !!
May God Be With You All
,My Friends
Shaun O.W.S.

_________________________
One With Strength...

Top
#40754 - 02/11/03 05:22 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Shaun, you are kickin' butt man. Keep up the good work! Peace, Andrew


Top
#40755 - 02/11/03 06:05 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
OneWithStrength Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 5
Loc: U.S.
thanks Andrew appreciate the support i really do !! -
-Peace Within-
A mysterious and yet so powerful of a force
have driven us to the tip of sanity's edge and now it's and it's either jump or fight your way back onto level ground , i ask myself why ? why should i have to go through all this shit , what did i do wrong ? nothing !! find the child inside of you and become one with him once again ,it's the only way to find your level ground !

_________________________
One With Strength...

Top
#40756 - 02/11/03 11:16 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Andrew: Thanks, that's nice of you to say. I hope for more peace & serenity for you, and for all of us, on Recovery Road!

Dave: That is so cool! Seeing the CBB would be a real blast!

Mike: Thanks for those wonderful encouraging words for all of us!

Shaun: You really are One With Strength, and you share that strength with us. Thank you!

Yeah, you guys ARE great!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#40757 - 02/16/03 12:22 AM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Shaun,
Such mature poetry! Are you sure you're as young as you say? Keep up the good work. Sincerely, Jess.


Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.