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#40729 - 02/06/03 01:30 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thanks for the advice. I have tried everything before and cannot get over this addiction to violence. I avoiding it but it now intrudes onto everything I do and think. All the issue around being a hooker and manipulating people to my advantage. Help

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#40730 - 02/06/03 04:57 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
__________

CAUTION
__________

I wrote this recently and to me it seems to fit in this discussion. Here it is:

______________________________________________________________________________

The skill that I need to be in place before doing such regression work is the skill of being able to put one foot in the past while maintaining one foot in the present(the here and now where the abuse is no longer occuring)

During the earlier period of my compulsive sexual acting out, I was doing things that shamed myself. Things that repeated or reinforced the feeling that that behavior was all I was good for and how I defined myself. I was impotent with my mother, and my brother showed me what i was worth as a man and how I could be used. I knew how to make men, perfect strangers, spend time with me. Male friendships were terrifying for me. While I couldn’t perform well sexually wih women, I could wow them in about every other way. Much like how I learned to wow my mother. The 0ne-two punch of what my surrogate father did to me, and what my mother had done to me left me with such sexual confusion that I never had a chance to sort it out with the only skills I had as an adolescent. The Alfred Hitchcock film , Psycho was the nearest thing I had to a role model for how to deal with my traumas. It was a surreal life with a surreal mother and a surreal big brother/dad. I was a surreal kid image juxtaposed next to the image of my mother in her bed with her hand “LOVINGLY” (right ? !!! please....) inside the waistband of my Fruit of the “Womb” briefs. As empathetic as I was to the character of Anthony Perkins, that was not me. The massive nuclear explosion of impossibly silent impotent rage was me. With hormones raging, resignation to the fury of impotent rage left me numb and dissociating and wandering in the shadows at night many years later. I was the tragic figure of a gothic vampire wandering the streets devoid of hope and long lost humanity only to re-enact my sexual traumas from my adolescence as if i were trying in some way to figure out how to get it right this time. The piece I could not actualize was that I was not an adult man when it first happened, so I was still trying to understand with the skills and remnants of warped magical thinking of an emotionally anihilated adolescent.
What I encountered on the streets was others like me, that many of whom, I believe, were resigned to the same self-destructive and hopeless lot we were all assigned. We were the blind leading the blind into deeper shadows, knowing well where the dirty secrets of this driven folly would lead us . My fellow driven and willing victims. We were ships at first passing in the night, then heading for the same iceberg whose depth of foundation was unfathomable. We were moths fatally drawn to the flame. From my bed with my wife, I would compulsively and stealthly bolt upright resigned in revisited terror in flashbacks. I had brought to our bed my seedy contamination of it and my shame. I did not deserve her love, and I tried to prove it.
They didn’t seem like flashbacks in the way I expect flashbacks to occur. I expected to be able to describe flashbacks as coming out of the blue. They didn’t and still don’t occur that way. Its more like a parallel universe that is kept apart from the here and now by a transparent osmotic membrane invisible from the side of the here and now, and opaque from the vantage point of life in the past lane. I’m suddenly into wrote>

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#40731 - 02/06/03 07:50 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
RJD
That must be the most haunting account of acting out I've ever read, it made my skin crawl as I recognized where I'd been, how I felt and why I was there.

You write about "My fellow driven and willing victims." - those that we meet, or met. And I have sometimes wondered just who they are.
I know that in something I wrote long ago I called them "PERVERTS" ; it's probably what I wanted to believe at the time. But I now believe that many of them are just like us, victims who remain trapped. Maybe some will have the courage to join us. I hope they do.

The movie "Manhunt" was on TV here only a few nights ago, and I love Michael Mann ( Miami Vice ) films so I watched it again.
The first time I saw it was when it came out, long before I started recovery and I viewed it as a thriller without understanding any of the dynamics of the Tom Noonan character 'Francis Dollarhyde'.

But the other night I lived it, my wife kept looking across at me as I sat sweating and tensing up in the chair. I recognised little bits, movements and phrases, and realised just how close we come to the edge sometimes.
It's a great movie, and I'll watch it again - even buy it maybe - but it needs to be handled with care.

The character of Francis is one of the most disturbing bad guys ever created, he is stereotypical to a degree for the publics consumption I agree, but someone - either Michael Mann, or the author of the novel it's based on Thomas Harris, has a very clear understanding of the mind of a perpetrator.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40732 - 02/08/03 05:53 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
In a P.M. this is part of what I said to Dave. "Thanks Dave I crave that kind of feedback. You have helped me with your honesty both here and in the past...."
Here is another piece that continues from what I wrote from above.


I had read books that talk about the child within while I was still sexually acting out. I was holding other men accountable for their behavior and violence in their lives. Yet I was still acting out my secret life, another form of violence and lack of respect for myself and those I loved.

On one such shadowy night I slipped out of the house succumbing to my obsessive compulsion and went cruising to live out my victimization once again. I knew it was the shame of it I was drawn to, but to know this didn’t seem to halt the behavior. It was the profound shame that was inseparably tied to sexual stimulation and secrecy that was my opiate. As I drove near the place of icebergs, I was feeling powerless. I felt so undeserving of life itself, and the proof was happening again.

Instead of fighting it, which always feeds the flames I was drawn to, I suspended judgement for a moment. Detachment comes all too easy, but this time was a little different. I decided to just look at what I was doing. I took a skeptical but somewhat caring (adult as I now see it) stance. With the frustration, anger and impatience I as a child, had learned to expect from adults, I asked this so called child within,“ O.K. Bobby what do YOU want to do here.”

Instantly I was in abandon and tears pleading,”I want to go home.” "I don't want to do this anymore." I had to immediately pull over. I cried and cried tears from a place deep, deep inside. I cried for another 20 minutes then drove home. Things started changing in my life around my acting out behavior.

I had learned to force him ( Bobby ) to do what he didn’t want to do. I then was able to experience the knowledge I never really wanted from my brother what he did to me. Sexual stimulation was too powerful an experience for me to be able to deal with as an early adolescent, late pubescent. I needed my brothers mentorship, his love, his esteem. I did not need to experience my maleness as something to have contempt for, or to see it as a mirage as he and my mother needed for me to believe. I did not need to be used sexually and have that as my only worth.


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#40733 - 02/08/03 06:50 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
RJD

Quote:
On one such shadowy night I slipped out of the house succumbing to my obsessive compulsion and went cruising to live out my victimization once again. I knew it was the shame of it I was drawn to, but to know this didn’t seem to halt the behavior. It was the profound shame that was inseparably tied to sexual stimulation and secrecy that was my opiate.
Once again you hit the nail on the head, acting out isn't about sex, it's confirming our place at the bottom of the shit pile.
We were used as kids, and it doesn't matter one bit who did what to us the important thing was, and still is, the abuse of power.

They tricked us, forced us, bribed us, beat us and lied to us. Their older intellect had an unfair advantage on us. Most times we loved or admired those that abused us - why the hell weren't we going to believe them ?

We did believe them, and we kept their secret safe for so long. Why ? because we knew no different at the time, and as we grew up we became ashamed of what happened to us because we hadn't learned otherwise.
Our distorted thinking told us we were 'participants' and because we also realised it was wrong and dirty we thought "this is how I am, I'm just like them" So we continue their cycle.

Sex is just a vehicle that carried the shame and guilt. I know I never enjoyed the sexual aspect of acting out, it was always fleeting and disgusting.
It was a very minor part of making myself feel bad about myself.

Even a minor frustration ( not just sexual frustration ) could, and still can, kick it off.
Today I was working in my garage and I needed 4 small nuts and bolts. I could only find 4 bolts and 3 nuts. I looked some more and found a slightly different size - 3 bolts and 4 nuts. And so it went on for about 2 hours. As I got frustrated with all this I could feel the acting out urge creeping in, the hint of sexual thoughts coming on stronger the more frustrated I got.
I went up to the house and made a coffee, back down and drilled the holes bigger and fitted bigger bolts - problem solved.
But I can remember a time when it would have led to me closing the garage door and masturbating or worse, driving off and cruising.

The point is that I was feeling bad, inadequate for not having the right stuff to hand when I needed it. Then I began to lose it and not think straight and the distraction behaviour started.
I felt bad, and I was about to make it worse.

The 'Joy of Sex' had nothing to do with it, and I dont think it ever had.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40734 - 02/08/03 07:00 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
Amen Dave...


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#40735 - 02/09/03 04:14 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
When I was at my worst and acting out almost daily my job ( I still have the same one ) meant I was driving around on my own and basically unsupervised. I could lose myself and soon justify it with my 'magic pen'.
This real bad period lasted about 4 years, but it had built up over many, maybe 20 years.

When I started therapy I would tell my T that it was "boredom" that created the situations where I would act out. And I clung to that idea for a long time, believing it to be the sole cause.

So I started listening to news and chat radio instead of just music. I tried books on tape - no luck. It wasn't boredom.

It might well have been a part of the deal, but probably no more than providing the window of opportunity.
The bigger causes were loneliness, and the thought of human contact, which is why the cellphone became so important to me.
Loneliness is so different to being alone. I can cope with being alone for the most part, but I hate feeling isolated and out of touch.
Abuse does that to me, I feel different therefore I feel alone. (Not any more though ! )

The need to degrade myself, which I didn't understand at that time, was also a major thing.
And very slowly I started to put myself down, and it felt good because then I had nothing to live up to, life was easy. But it doesn't last.
Unfortunately I can see a close friend going down this path for different reasons, a bad divorce.
His answer to everything is "fuck it, what do I care" and he's getting so he wont do anything.

I can remember that state clearly, I went to work and did the minimum, came home, ate dinner and watched TV. And all that down time gave me time to sit and fester, dwell on how fucking useless I really was. So as a distraction I started the next days fantasy and planned my acting out route.

I suppose the why's and how's of dealing with it all are very much a 'what came first - the chicken or the egg ?' situation.
And I just don't know. But I do know that making the decision to get help led me to understand myself a lot more. I gained confidence and started to do other things, which distracted me from the life I was leading. Now I haven't got a spare minute.
Have the new distractions displaced the acting out, or have I learned new things by being a survivor that have enabled me to do those other things ?

And one more important question - do I care ??
If it works, that's fine by me !

Dave ;\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40736 - 02/09/03 04:48 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
OneWithStrength Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 5
Loc: U.S.
Well i guess i just wanted to reply to all of you by saying i do to understand mostly what you have said and i am trying this out for the first time because just like all of you i am sick of myself and my thoughts. see it all started with me when i was a kid (7 to be excact) and i guess i have done nothing but try to run leave all of my problems on the back burner. Until now FUCK IT ,nothing is getting better only worse and worse everywhere i go i fuck up i can't hold a job, i can't not lie about myself to make me look like someone who isn't fucked up and won't admit it cause i mean who really wants to admit there shit is wacked i mean the things i don't quite understand is the being turned on state of mind that some of you recieve by your thoughts but maybye it's in a different way i mean i am sex addict,when i was a kid i knew the shit my pops was doing was wrong and i hated and feared him then kinda like now 25 and still scared, shit has got to turn around here soon!!! but i just wanted to say thank you to all you guys out there who is posting there reply's cause it does help .

_________________________
One With Strength...

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#40737 - 02/09/03 06:57 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi One,

There is no human being who is normal who would not be terribly harmed mentally and often physically by what happened to us.

There is a huge difference though. There a lot huge number of people walking around our nation who are at least as messed up as wwe are but are to dense to realize it--or so harmed, they just can't admit it.

Terrible things happened to you One. There is no way yo0u wouldn't have problems. But you are admitting them, you admit you know where at least some of them come from and I suspect you will begin to methodically work on them with the help of a therapist.

One, you have no idea how much energy you have to do the hard work of healing, energy that guys like myself are too old to come up with. You are bright and heroic to work on your problems now. And by the way, lately, there have been a lot of new members between the ages 20 to 26 or so. You have a lot of company here.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#40738 - 02/09/03 09:45 PM Re: Survivor-Dealing with Dreams
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Dear OneWithStrength,
You are a Survivor like we are. We are here to support you and we need your support as well. I am sorry you suffered the trauma of abuse. We have too. This has caused such untold damage in our lives that many of us could not feel "normal" or like other guys. Many of us have acted out in various ways which have left us feeling cheap, dirty, disgusting, unclean and most of all guilty and ashamed. We have suffered from depression, obsession, addiction, isolation, etc. I know this has to sound familiar to you, as it did to me when I first found this MaleSurvivor site. But I found a Brotherhood of men who understand me and what I have been going through all of my life, all alone. Now I am no longer alone, I have Brothers who can give me wise counsel, comfort me when I feel bad, and listen to me when I feel lonely and afraid. This is what you have here too. You have our support. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is helpful to others who see themselves in the story you relate. it gives hope of healing and recovery to others who may have felt they were alone and the only one who felt like this. Hang in there. You are on the right road. Sincerely, Jess.


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