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#407028 - 08/16/12 09:37 PM The C Word
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 636
Loc: NJ
I think I have asked variants of this question several times - but I am learning as I go and I might be able to articulate my question clearly at this point.

I get it - control is important for a survivor.

But here's my question... why control when it relates to perceived self destructive activities?

Some context... it's okay to have an opinion around here about cars, clothes, education, children, dinner... but when you have an opinion about alcohol, drugs, extramarital affairs, drunk driving, and general self destruction, then the C word rears its ugly head. Then it becomes a contest, then there's a fight. WHY???? If you want control, then control away. But why does it seem (at least here), that the control battle is fought ONLY on topics of negative consequences?

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#407033 - 08/16/12 10:46 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
SamV Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5924
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Esposa,

Using the term "you" is confusing in this context, at least to me. Are you desiring to offer opinions about negative consequences of survivors and addictions on this site? Are you upset over a conversation you and your survivor had?

Control is just that, control. In this context, the ability to conduct oneself in a manner one so chooses. Everyone has a free will, the ability to conduct themselves autonomously. When two people get married or enter into a binding relationship, then there SHOULD be confidential talk and planning that allows both parties to understand the actions of the other, no surprises. The extent at which both parties utilize this effects the perception of the relationship. Control is not something to be fought over. Local and federal authorities will not interfere with one's decision so long as it does not interfere with (the survivor's safety) or another's safety or right to conduct themselves how they choose. No matter what we wish for with regards to the health and well being of another, we can only deter or encourage our own thoughts from being expressed, considered, acted on or rejected. The strongest man or the wisest woman has no right to demand or control another.., any other, save minor children or those who cannot determine their own safety, as in those who may be intellectually disabled.

A supporter's opinion carries much weight in MaleSurvivor, so much so that it is mulled, commented on and considered at length. A supporter can offer their perspective of the survivor's personality and lifestyle while controlled by such influences, however, the decision to engage in such, even at the perception of the survivor's detriment by those who truly care for him.., is his alone. The supporter has an authority too, the supporter can decide that these influences are negatively affecting their relationship, their children's safety and/or their quality of life. The supporter can make affirming decisions, including creating healthy boundaries that have to be adhered to by the survivor, or else the supporter needs to make sure the children and themselves are safe. A quote that may be of interest is: When personal boundaries are created and enforced, the one creating the boundary lets go of the conclusion of the matter.

In my personal life, my wife and I share the responsibilities and consequences of life's decisions. There is no control but instead a mutual cooperation, then accepting whatever happens as the best we could muster at the time. Adjustments, setbacks and successes mark our history, we have few regrets.

Is something of concern to you, something that you wish to share with other supporters and survivors here in MaleSurvivor? That is very acceptable here. Is it about addictions, acting out or destructive behavior? Is something preventing you from posting about this here? Please bring it to the Moderators attention, we can help you resolve it. Are there replies that are negative or attacking in other posts? Again, the Moderators are here to support and encourage a healthy, healing environment.

Please feel free to contact us,
Sam

_________________________
My SENSITIVE Difference

"Lets talk about that."

Go Get A Hug: HUG>porn

*When provoked* "Anyone holding back his sayings is possessed of knowledge. (Proverbs 17:27)"

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#407034 - 08/16/12 11:04 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 636
Loc: NJ
Sam - I am not sure I understand your response. I fear that you didn't understand my question which is probably my fault.

This is one of the most perplexing issues in my relationship for me. I am merely asking for input on something that I may not completely understand.

I am not talking about actual control. I am talking about the survivor feeling as though he is being controlled - AND only when it relates to activities that are destructive.

If I am drunk and get in my car and my husband says to me, you should not be driving. I will hand him the keys. But if this scenario were to happen the other way around, not only would he not give me the keys, he would make sure he was drunk for the next 4 days JUST TO SHOW ME. When I ask him about this, he tells me it has to do with feeling in control, that no one will tell him what to do.

So my question really is - WHY is this only applied to destructive things? I can buy him a shirt. I can help him write his resume. But I can't express my concern over his drinking, drug use, infidelity.... then he will fight me for control. He doesn't feel controlled when I pick a restaurant, or a tutor for our son, but he feels controlled if I tell him that I don't want him to do drugs in our home.

Is this clearer now?

I just don't really understand.

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#407036 - 08/16/12 11:29 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1248
Loc: kansas
is it possible that, on the destructive things, he knows it's out of control for him, that he's fighting for control over it and for a spouse or friend or relative comes along and tries to help he may feel even more worthless because he may feel he can't get control and here's someone trying to do it for him.. in a way feeling emasculated, so out comes the the more defiant personality to try and prove he can do it and gain control?

just a thought... i could be totally wrong.
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

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#407037 - 08/16/12 11:36 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
Esposa you bring up an interesting observation and I now that you mention it, I have noticed this in my survivor also. We can happily and freely debate virtually any other topic (religion, vegetarianism, sports teams, shoes) but when it comes to self-destructive behaviors, he becomes instantly defensive and closes his ears. He's so protective of his negative coping mechanisms, it's astonishing for someone who is otherwise highly intelligent and self aware. It's like he's been programmed. That's the only word I can think of. Abuse and pain is so central to his concept of himself, that if I question the need for him to abuse himself, it's like I'm questioning (threatening) the very core of who he is. Maybe my questioning his behavior activates the fear and confusion he feels over his behavior, and maybe the confusion and loss of control he feels when he acts compulsively, he projects on to me.

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#407038 - 08/16/12 11:39 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
SamV Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5924
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Ah yep, not your fault dear supporter, I assumed without all the information, my bad, forgive me Esposa.

I think we are referring to paranoid contention. Contention is: a point advanced or maintained in a debate or argument. In this case, it is the abuse control he is contending with, albeit unwittingly. A piece of himself feels that should he allow any contrary thought to "control" him, he would again be abused. This is definitely an abuse recovery process. The rigid demand of self control is directly linked, especially when in the clutch of over use of a coping mechanism, to the avoidance of abuse through being perfect, absolutely convinced that the thought process is above consideration, less any doubt would let him slip into the abuse clutches. Survivors live in fear of being abused again. We create such mental and emotional exercises that we "safeguard" ourselves from any possible abuse. It is hyper vigilance, being on guard 110% of the time at the highest possible awareness. To second guess that would be to invite possible abuse. It is, in short, paranoid contention.

What could begin to change his mind? How do you feel? "I am scared", "please, let's be safe", "I am not going to drive with you", "help me to help you".

Taking away a coping mechanism is tantamount to ripping the board away from a drowning victim of a boat accident. Demanding that the survivor does not do them in your home is not only prudent but could save your home in the event of a raid! Personal boundaries, Esposa. Creating and enforcing these are the key to effectively removing harmful coping mechanisms from your(plural) home and environment.

http://joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm This is a wonderful article that is non invasive with your survivor, and serves to create a healthy, positive environment, a safe haven for you and him.

Would you like me to remove my original post as it is not on topic?

Sam
_________________________
My SENSITIVE Difference

"Lets talk about that."

Go Get A Hug: HUG>porn

*When provoked* "Anyone holding back his sayings is possessed of knowledge. (Proverbs 17:27)"

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#407039 - 08/16/12 11:39 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
I just read Obi's response, and I think he said sorta what I was trying to say, but better, that our questioning them on their behavior reminds them of how out of control they are. Thanks Obi.
Also thanks Sam for the article.

Helpful thread.

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#407041 - 08/16/12 11:53 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 636
Loc: NJ
If you remove your post Sam, I will need to edit my clarification. You can leave it, I am not offended. Is it good to be pushed to articulate wink

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#407042 - 08/16/12 11:54 PM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 636
Loc: NJ
Obi just shifted my reality. And mmfan, I am glad to hear that I am not the only one who is confused by this.

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#407061 - 08/17/12 07:28 AM Re: The C Word [Re: Esposa]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Right there with you Esposa. I demanded that my husband end the 12+ year relationship he had with his phone sex operator, made him aware of a friend who was not only talking to people about his issues but was manipulating his other friendships, and informed him we could no longer afford his phone sex habit.

His complaint? "You're just trying to control me and TAKE AWAY ALL MY COPING MECHANISMS!"

Yup. HIs words. Verbatim.

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