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#406622 - 08/12/12 10:57 PM Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING)
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Greetings - I've been lurking here for a while and wanted to join the group and share like so many here have shared with me. This is a long post and I'll put the 'Too Long / Didn't Read' version at the bottom:

I'm aware of being a survivor of sexual abuse but I have no specific knowledge of where or when. After years of acting out a therapist finally told me, "I know you don't remember being abused but you exhibit all the signs of a person who has been abused." I had to accept it and I've been learning a lot from the experiences of everyone here.

I'll say it in advance: my story is not typical for what I've read here. Most people start with their abuse and then talk about the mistakes they did because of it. Since I have no memory of what happened to me all I can do is talk about the things that I did, the overwhelming guilt I have because of them and the confusion and frustration I feel because after all this time, acting out sexually (although not with another person and certainly not with a child) through porn and specific role-play still turns me on like nothing else does. I have no idea what to do with any of this.

As I said - no knowledge of any abuse happening to me. Yet, I was compelled to do things. As a child, I acted out with other children in the neighborhood who were younger than me. That went on for a couple of years until I was caught and served a lenient sentence of probation and group therapy from age 13-15. I spent years seeing myself as a walking monster. Sometimes I wonder if any of you were the kids I hurt. I never hurt anyone ever again and made a promise to myself that I'd off myself before I'd hurt anyone ever again. I never have.

I didn't wake up acting out one day at 10 ... there were incidences leading up to that. When I was younger, 4 or 5, the older kids of the neighborhood led me into the bushes where we took turns showing each other ourselves, peeing - if there was any mutual masturbation I don't remember it. I remember how much it turned me on, though. We moved away from there and in our new neighborhood I would find semi-public places to strip off in. The act of getting naked in such a place always got me off in a way that nothing else did.

I started experimenting with getting other kids to do things with me. I talked a neighbor kid into going into a neighbors yard and defecating in public. In 2nd grade, I singled out a classmate, led him into the trees for many rounds of 'show me yours and I'll show you mine.' We did that until the end of 2nd grade - we never spoke of it again.

The guilt from what I did in 2nd grade made me too ashamed to ever do anything with someone for several years. In 5th grade, I was a poor, anti-social kid with a high IQ. I was the kid the teachers wrote "Not living up to potential" on every report card. My parents were broke, Mom and Dad were tense trying to find jobs, ways to save money and maintain their social standing within our religious community, I had few friends and fewer chances to play with them.

Out of all of that stress and depression, I started experiencing those former emotions and decided to act on them. They were a bright spot in among a lot of unhappiness. Even though they were wrong - they made me forget how unhappy I was for a while.

Oddly enough, though I had sexual thoughts I had no idea what masturbation or other sex-ed topics were. It wasn't until 7th grade - after I had been caught but before the court case - that I even knew how male/female intercourse worked.

Trigger Warning: I Need to Talk About This But If You Can't Handle Some Frank Recollections - Stop Here









My role play had a voyeuristic component to it. I wanted to get naked in front of other kids. I would suggest different things to do with other kids and was pleasantly surprised to find that they were open to doing them. I don't remember when the line was truly crossed, convincing several kids who were 3-4 years younger than I was, to do sexual things. I just remember that I started convincing them to show themselves to me and convincing them to participate as we took turns undressing each other. I had the guilt for a few days, but then the desire to do what we were doing would start again and I'd start working on when we could 'play.' That ended when school started in the fall for 6th grade.

I should mention here that I had been slowly edging my parents out of my life. I was handling trips to the principal's office without them knowing, minor school issues. They were still busy with their lousy jobs and climbing their social ladder and left me to my own devices. I don't want to say that they willingly checked out of my life but they were ignorant, overwhelmed and unaware of their own emotional baggage. It was a perfect storm of circumstances. I was disconnected from them - unhappy because I knew that what I was doing was wrong and yet I was powerless to deal with my emotions. After all, if Mom and Dad can't handle a D+ on your report card or a note from the teacher, how the heck are you supposed to give them this?

By 6th grade, I was dangerous. After vacation, I resumed and stepped up what I was doing with the kids. I won't go into detail but it involved touching, oral sex and many afternoons of misbehavior until one kid I'd recently groomed and began 'playing' with broke down to his Mom. My world had caved in.

I'll cut this short - the story of how I got caught and my later police report, trial and two years of group therapy and probation are a story in and of themselves. Their details aren't why I wrote this but wanted to give you some context for everything else I say.

I came out of that experience convinced of several things:

1) I was a monster.
2) My job was to never harm anyone ever again.
3) The rest of my life was meant to be spent to make up for the harm that I had caused, to my parents and the others.

I spent years determined to live non-sexually. I gave myself OCD making sure that I wasn't focusing on other males, on wrong thoughts. I didn't want to be gay but I didn't think I'd ever meet someone who could tolerate my past either. I started to build a life for myself as this boy scout-type with a bunch of rigid morality and almost no intimacy. Intimacy frightened me - it was better to be alone than to open the box where the bad stuff lived. My life was supposed to be about keeping that box shut, I thought.

When I was 21 - I met my wife. I told her about my past almost immediately, to the upset of my parents who never wanted to talk about it. 14 years later, we've been married for 12 years and have a wonderful 6-year old son that I love more than life itself.

But still - there's the acting out. It doesn't go away.

I want to stress that my acting out has nothing to do with my son. I love him, I would kill myself before harming him. I could never imagine letting him anywhere near this filth.

Acting out for me is about me finding semi-public, deserted places to strip off and masturbate. Or waiting until I'm alone to watch and masturbate to gay porn. When I do those things, I feel incredibly guilty - the guilt, self-loathing and depression can last for weeks. As much as I hate feeling guilty, it's always seemed to be the best defense for the gnawing desire to start doing things to trigger or get myself worked up to acting out again.

It's taken years and some therapy to understand everything that's going on. Thanks to therapy, medication and what I've read here on MS - I understand much better what I'm going through and why it's happening. I'm grateful to you for helping me to see that but I'm also seeing that I haven't reached the end of my road yet. Let me continue:

Even though I've been through the therapy and can see the acting out for what it is, I still have some things I'm trying to sort out. For instance, I trigger off of young guys who fit a specific profile (swimmer's build, confident, do or wear things that are stereotypically 'male' without any self-effacement or timidity). I've battled that triggering by working to make myself into what I trigger off of. I've been successful somewhat but I always feel like I'm playing with fire. Since I cannot make a pear-shaped 35-year-old into a ripped and cut 21-year-old, I'm often frustrated and depressed about it. There's more to say about that but this post is long enough (Please don't fall off into telling me that 'working out and eating right will make it better' - there's something deeper here that 16 years of working out hasn't uncovered).

Additionally, being a professional and a family man, I'm usually balancing the stresses of raising a family, running a business and other projects against my baggage. I often tell people that I'm like a rocket who 'gimbals' against all of these different forces to keep pushing forward. Or it feels like I'm treading water in the rapids - I'm trying to keep my head up while many different forces exert themselves on me - some of them I can control but many of them I cannot.

My goal is to meet my goals, turn my emotional baggage into something positive and not fall off into the hole of acting out. I've been successful, for the most part. When I'm not successful, the desire to act out starts in my head and it will start ratcheting up as the stress and other negative things in my life occur.

Successfully managing this has always been a struggle. My wife tries very hard to understand me and be sensitive to my needs - we've improved quite a bit in that area from 4 years ago. Still at the same time, this desire is there and I want to understand what this 'Perfect Guy' is supposed to have and why does acting out feel so horrible and so good at the same time?

I know I have more to say but this post is too long as it is and I'm exhausted. I'll add more to the story along with responding to what you say.



Too Long / Didn't Read: Still have lots of emotional baggage in my head - how can I even begin explaining this to people who aren't CSA survivors?


Edited by SkyLukewalker (08/13/12 12:11 AM)

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#406625 - 08/12/12 11:36 PM Re: Long Time Listener-First Time Caller (Triggerish) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Well, you can start real slow and work up to it. In the meantime, toss out some of the baggage by unloading it here on us. I promise we are really good listeners and will definitely understand.

Love ya brother. Welcome home.
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#406633 - 08/13/12 12:12 AM Re: Long Time Listener-First Time Caller (Triggerish) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Thank you - I appreciate that. I posted, then added A LOT more to this thread. I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly.

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#406635 - 08/13/12 12:53 AM Re: Long Time Listener-First Time Caller (Triggerish) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Letourski Offline


Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
I can relate to many parts of your story. The shame of acting out, the constant need to be one of the ripped guys. I am not sure what a sexuality looks like, much less feels like. I have spent most of my life acting out with pornography and masturbation. I know for me, I have to stop acting out and get control of my behavior before I can claim my sexuality as my own.

But I am afraid of living life without acting out, because it's the only life I have ever known. What will emerge remains a mystery me, and that unknown scares the living hell out of me.

Heal well my friend. It takes great courage to post as honestly as you have. We are right here with you.
_________________________
I am the warrior.

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#406656 - 08/13/12 09:05 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Had to cut it short to get some rest - I have a job interview today but will have to call off because I lost my voice over the weekend and I sound like either a Mafia don or Donald Duck. Neither of which go over well for a 2-hour in-person interview.

All of that context gets me to where I can finally confront the real questions I wanted to ask in the first place.

Upon looking at my story written out - I'm starting to wonder if I equate being naked and sexual with male acceptance since that was one of my first 'acting out' memories.

Does acting out ONLY mean that I'm trying to re-enact abuse?

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#406662 - 08/13/12 10:51 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Additionally, seeing the "Perfect Guy" somewhere - whether it's on the streets, on television (watching the Olympic divers was torture for me) or seeing a statue of a man - I'm instantly drawn to this male form. It's like it's saying "That's what a man looks like" and I instantly feel both ashamed and drawn to them because ... I don't look like that. I never have ... except for maybe a short period of time when I was working out and working on my feet for 6 hours a day when I was 18. Seems like a very small return on such a large investment.

Part of me idolizes persons like that. I remember feeling that way about other boys in my class as far back as kindergarten - the kids who could do things that I admired whether it was the kid with the piano lessons or the boy in 3rd grade who was an accomplished gymnast and threw backward flips around the playground or the kid in 4th grade who could kick a kickball into the stratosphere. There's been a mixture of admiration, idolization and sexualization that over time translated into whatever this attraction/shame is that I feel when I see the 'Perfect Guy' somewhere.

It's taking a lot out of me to unpack this - I'll post more later when I can. Thanks for reading.

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#406663 - 08/13/12 10:53 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3621
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi SkyLukewalker, welcome to Male survivor.
Wow what a powerful intro!
Part of your story is so familiar to me, expect I was one of younger boys that were involved into sexual games by couple of older boys.
I've never looked at those older boys as some "monsters", they were also kids and they needed some attention and care at that time. We were all kids without mature insight on things that were happening nor to possible consequences, it was sort of play for us. One part of me is angry to adults (my parents) and imposed too strict rules for us. That is one of the main reasons for my shame at that time. For me it was impossible to talk about that stuff with my parents, I knew that I would have some terrible consequences and I've been scared. I've tried but never felt sure enough to reveal my story and related problems to them, sex was taboo.
Now, many years after I have struggles with SSA (same sex attraction) and watching gay porn, but I'm in therapy and see huge progress with my life.
To make it short, in my case acting out trough watching gay porn means that I want to re-enact abuse and that some trauma is left unhealed. There is some specific reason and set of feelings that drive me to numbing and I'm learning how to cope whit it, how to see it coming and how to manage it. Because of early age when I was involved into all this, I guess that some scars left would be always present.
Please take your time, there are many similar stories here as well as articles. I'm sure you'll find your answer!
Keep sharing with us!
Pero

_________________________
My story

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#406666 - 08/13/12 11:09 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1782
Skylukewaker

What an honest and open introduction. Parts seem so familiar to me. I have learned the acting out was a way to recreate the abuse--through recreation the mind believes it can heal, but it has the opposite effect--the trauma remains and is left to fester and impact our lives. Through therapy you learn of the trauma and realize it is not always who you are when re creating the events of the abuse. I learned, the recreation is a way to connect to the abuser, who twisted our minds to believe we were special or loved.

You are facing your past and move at your own pace-

Kevin

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#406667 - 08/13/12 11:11 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1600
Loc: New England
Thanks for your honesty. Be aware that some guys will have a problem with some of your back round because of their own trauma. You are still welcome here, without judgement.
_________________________
Seems I've got to have a change of scene
Every night I have the strangest dreams
Imprisoned by the way it could have been
Left here on my own or so it seems
I've got to leave before I start to scream
Joe Cocker

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#406668 - 08/13/12 11:37 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Sky,

It has been said in here that urge, that blood curdling sexual impulse to remember/reenact the "first act", that impossibly anomalous flu like rage that propels us, this poison, that it is a child's desire to be loved, to be in the arms of trust, to be accepted. This simple default possession of every other human and animal that have been in functional families, safe neighbors, other children, scout leaders, coaches and religious leaders.

Quote:
When I was younger, 4 or 5, the older kids of the neighborhood led me into the bushes where we took turns showing each other ourselves, peeing - if there was any mutual masturbation I don't remember it. I remember how much it turned me on, though.
This is grooming, fellow survivor. It IS sexual abuse, the presenting or displaying of sexual material to a minor. In the acceptance, the friendship, the secrecy and communal group, you were loved, you joined, you were "within".

This is what you seek, the thrust of such loyalty, such inner joy and comfort. However, at your moment, and indeed many of your fellow survivors, when we would have such community that would pour over us such embrace, we were introduced, we were overwhelmed by the most powerful influence we could muster inside our bodies. This sexual power, associated with love, loyalty and grouping became almost indelibly fused. This is our abandon, our destruction, our rejection, but again, this is NOT OURS. It is the behavior that we copy over and over in our lives trying to find that connection.

Alas fellow survivor, it is not to be. Nothing, save porn OR offending survivors OR perpetrators( the commonality is in the assumption of the act of grooming, nothing more in this context) can again drown us in that groomed "love", acceptance and intimacy.

We desperately need to detach ourselves from that grooming, that lesson, the control of which destroys us. That is what we do here, male survivor, in MaleSurvivor. We learn to love in terms of respect, of admiration of human will and inalienable right, in mutual equality. We attempt to construct our interrupted selves from the grooming, from the abuse, for we will never have what was lost to us. But we WILL unlearn, with setbacks. We WILL begin anew, with frailty. Then we will be victorious. The hope of freedom, the courage and strength we get from conviction of doing what we internally agree on, what is right and good to us, that solidity is ours.
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#406681 - 08/13/12 01:14 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: Jude]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Quote:
Be aware that some guys will have a problem with some of your back round because of their own trauma. You are still welcome here, without judgement.


Thanks for that. I can never justify what I did to those boys and I carry that guilt and shame today. I'm a family man with a nice job and I still hate myself for what I did. I always will. I think I'd rather be guilty of murder than this.

Quote:
Alas fellow survivor, it is not to be. Nothing, save porn OR offending survivors OR perpetrators( the commonality is in the assumption of the act of grooming, nothing more in this context) can again drown us in that groomed "love", acceptance and intimacy.

We desperately need to detach ourselves from that grooming, that lesson, the control of which destroys us. That is what we do here, male survivor, in MaleSurvivor. We learn to love in terms of respect, of admiration of human will and inalienable right, in mutual equality.


I hear what you're saying and I agree with it ... the acting out certainly fits that description. The problem is that when I'm acting out, I feel like I'm rebelling against the shame I feel.

What is the shame and why does acting sexually outside 'feel' (according to whatever my baggage is) like the answer?





Edited by SkyLukewalker (08/13/12 01:18 PM)

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#406704 - 08/13/12 06:13 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Shame is :A painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior. Words like shame are: disgrace - dishonour - dishonor - ignominy - opprobrium.

When we act out, viewing pornography, phone sex, hooking up, or masturbating, we attempt to connect with the fantastical feelings of "first abuse" that completely overwhelmed us. This may a bit difficult to understand, or accept, but we knew what we were doing was wrong, or at least, foolish. We did not care, we hungered for the attention, we thirsted for the acceptance. We knew it was wrong, and we did it anyway, thus shame.

You may be rebelling against the negative feelings that you had at that age, feeling alone, feeling abandoned, rejected by your distracted parents. This is a composite issue, Sky. Almost no one wants to be "different", the abuse you suffered was a chance, a foolish chance, but one through peer pressure and acceptance you took. While you made the choice, you were not to blame. Your parents are to blame, not you. They conceived you, and they owed you time and attention, gifts and praise, protection, lessons, discipline, smiles, acceptance, yes love. Your "eyes" of awareness, should have been for the present and future, assured that the past was exactly as it should be, that you were "right on track", and maybe a little bit ahead.

That was the past, Sky. Now it is up to you, you are the parent. Show your survivor the attention, forgiveness, mercy and joy he is owed. Forgive him for his foolishness, for his mad desire to find that overwhelming acceptance, that even yesterday, or this morning when he looked at porn, that you forgive him. This is impossibly hard, Sky, but look in the mirror, touch his face and tell him you were sorry for what he endured. Cry. Be amazed at his strength and conviction to survive, the sheer determination to keep going. With kind eyes, reassure him you will take care of him, you will never let him go and you will always answer, will always respond kindly. Smile. Touch your heart with an open hand, calm his beating heart. Hug yourself as you would a distraught child. Speak consoling things, and hope for better times with recovery soon, very soon.
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#406719 - 08/13/12 08:43 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Excellent post Sam.
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#406720 - 08/13/12 08:46 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Excellent post Sam.
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#406728 - 08/13/12 09:11 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SamV]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
I appreciate the words, guys, I do. Here's the extra bugaboo:

The reason all of this came to the surface is because I had a conversation with a spiritual adviser a couple of weeks ago. He had been checking up on me, was aware that I had a problem with 'porn' in the past. He asked me about it again and also asked about what kind of porn. I had to admit, with tears in my eyes, that I had relapsed on occasion and not only with straight porn but with gay porn.

My world caved in again - this guy is really nice but he's an old-school guy in his late 70s and the mechanics of child sexual abuse are frankly beyond him. I can't begin to explain to him - in any way that he'd understand - why this is happening. I wouldn't blame him if he was frightened for my son or for the kids in our congregation. I have no idea how on earth to explain this to him.

So - I appreciate the affirmations but my reason in opening up now is much more concrete. I don't know how to explain this to him but I think for my sake as well as my family's, I'd better find a way.

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#406729 - 08/13/12 09:28 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
How much work is he willing to do to understand the situation, Sky? Perhaps you could guide him to some articles here, or give him the book Victims No Longer.

Just some thoughts.
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#406732 - 08/13/12 09:41 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
These processes continue the effort to disclose, to reach out and to find support. Recovery specific to sexual abuse is often precipitated by an emergency in the life of the survivor. You seem to be within the event, Sky, and that can be.., well, unsettling at least.

There is a great article here in MS by Ken Singer on disclosure, what we can expect for ourselves and for others. This will help you to clarify what disclosure can do for you. http://www.malesurvivor.org/ArchivedPages/singer3.html

It may not be possible to explain this to him, we must offer that. The abuse, the offense and/or the crime is not in thinking about an offense, as has been recently said, it is in the act. Flashbacks, memories of the situation and of pornographic images are automatic, they are not controlled. When we react in anger or frustration at our perceived failing, we give them power and interest. Our conscious can prioritize those images as having a powerful effect, and retain them. If someone were to share with you a similar struggle, how would you respond? What advice would you give them? No one can read hearts, but intentions only. If you are repentant and have an affliction that was thrust upon you, then as a Christian, you can be forgiven 77 times, meaning throughout your lifetime, according to Christian teaching.

It may be best that when you attempt to discuss this with the Advisor, that you and your wife speak with him. in that context there is support, a boundary for your children from any acting out. While this is not an issue within your fortitude Sky, it may be in his, and this additional protection for your children may placate him.

Allow him to speak about the wrong and the righteous. Be sincere in your responses. If the life you seek is the life you present to him, the above information will make it's way into it.
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#406736 - 08/13/12 10:06 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Publius Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 425
Loc: OH
I appreciate your candor and am relieved to hear about your rehabilitation as a youth. You see I was one of those younger kids (although I was only 4). I was groomed with video games and special games by a kid three years my senior. I also broke down to my mother except the police never got involved and the school failed me so he kept abusing kids well into adolescence while I received no assistance whatsoever. Don't take this the wrong way but I am glad you got caught.

As much as I want to hate on you in this thread and condemn you outright I recognize you were only a boy yourself, victimized, and largely unaware of the greater implications of your actions. I realize the real person I hate is the adult who started the cycle in yours and my neighborhood. Your rehabilitation and continued recovery can be a testament to the possibility of healing despite grave wounds. Keep at it and good luck.


Edited by Publius (08/13/12 10:08 PM)
_________________________
"Life is like this dark tunnel. You may not always see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if you keep moving, you will come to a better place." ~ General Iroh

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#406738 - 08/13/12 10:17 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SamV]
Job121 Offline


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: sasuva
When we act out, viewing pornography, phone sex, hooking up, or masturbating, we attempt to connect with the fantastical feelings of "first abuse" that completely overwhelmed us. This may a bit difficult to understand, or accept, but we knew what we were doing was wrong, or at least, foolish. We did not care, we hungered for the attention, we thirsted for the acceptance. We knew it was wrong, and we did it anyway, thus shame.


I never realized acting out was all of these things. I thought it was actual sex... Definitely changes my ways of thinking...

Sky... you are healing... I definitely get it... try to be easy on yourself.

Job
www.coresaving.com
_________________________
Job
www.coresaving.com

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#406745 - 08/13/12 11:33 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: Publius]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Quote:
Don't take this the wrong way but I am glad you got caught.


I don't take it the wrong way ... I'm glad I got caught, too. I think it saved my life. I can't judge you if you're angry with me - I know I hurt people.

I'm so very, terribly, sorry for your pain.

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#407104 - 08/17/12 02:14 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Took a break for a few days to get my head together. Some of you have sent me private messages that were very kind - thank you. smile

I guess the point of the thread is "This isn't real - stop stressing over it - accept that the 'perfect guy' and acting out are symptoms of how my brain handles abuse."

I have to admit, I don't have a better answer than that, and yet it drives me up the wall to think that these emotions are based on something that FEELS so real and yet DOES NOT exist. That's not fair - that's how schizos go through life.

I feel like the 'Perfect guy' is supposed to give me something - what is he supposed to give me?

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#407157 - 08/18/12 08:34 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
The perfect guy is supposed to give you success, safety a sense of well being. After the abuse, the perfect guy personality came out so you could keep track of.., everything. We made ourselves the reason we were abused, so by watching ourselves the way a warden watched inmates, we made sure we did nothing bad, no mistakes, no problems.

The problem with the perfect guy is that it is an imbalance. When we are not balanced with our personality, we use our emotional energy to support it at the rate of 5 to 1. We burn out. We have to act out or use coping mechanisms to fortify that extreme.

So...
The perfect guy is the extreme, the other would be what, in your life? What is the polar opposite of perfect guy?

What is the balance of these extremes?

How would the balance manifest itself in your life?

Sam
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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#407163 - 08/18/12 11:48 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Hello Sky,

You and I have a lot in common: like you, I don't remember my abuse, but I'm pretty sure it was at the hands of a white-haired man, because when I act out that's what I'm drawn to -- and yes, for me acting out is a recreation of the abuse. Maybe to get control over it in some subconscious way, but I feel like a broken record.

While you work to figure yourself out here with the rest of us trying to figure ourselves out, I would recommend you look into an SAA group so you have a weekly check-in. That might help.

I've just started attending an SAA meeting, and I don't really feel like it's an ideal fit for me, but it does serve a good purpose of giving someone accountability for our actions, and could help with your more risky acting-out behaviors like the outdoor stuff.

As for your pastor, tell him you're suffering from PTSD like a returning war veteran, except instead of a war zone you're a sex abuse survivor. Maybe that will click with him.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407200 - 08/18/12 11:58 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SamV]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Quote:
The perfect guy is supposed to give you success, safety a sense of well being. After the abuse, the perfect guy personality came out so you could keep track of.., everything. We made ourselves the reason we were abused, so by watching ourselves the way a warden watched inmates, we made sure we did nothing bad, no mistakes, no problems.


I'm not sure I understand this but it sounds very close. Can you give me an example?

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#407212 - 08/19/12 09:34 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Hm... are you a Star Trek TNG fan?

"
Quote:
NT. SCIENCE SHIP CHAMBER - ON TIMOTHY

a boy of ten. Trapped beneath a fallen bulkhead in an
even more heavily damaged area. He looks up at Data
and Riker -- panic on his face.

TIMOTHY
Are my parents alright?
"

"
Quote:
12 INT. VICO (OPTICAL)

Data and Geordi are standing by. Riker is crouched
down next to the trapped boy. Timothy appears almost
numb with fright.

PICARD'S COM VOICE
Is the boy ready, Number One?

RIKER
(to boy)
Everything's gonna be okay...

A beat. The boy doesn't answer. But he nods his head
almost imperceptibly.
"

"
Quote:
Everything happens at once:

-- with his android strength, Data forces the bulkhead
upwards. The boy scrambles free, falling to the floor.

-- a second structural member collapses as a result of
the action.

-- Data drops the bulkhead, spins, scoops the boy into
the air and dashes back toward the opposite corridor.

17 DATA (OPTICAL)

shoots into the open corridor, boy under his arm,
tapping his combadge with his free hand.

DATA
(to com)
Energize!

He and the boy DEMATERIALIZE -- a piece of the ceiling
falls right through them.
"

"
Quote:
TROI
If he is lying, I haven't been
able to sense it. Perhaps his
level of emotional trauma is too
high.

PICARD
Why wouldn't he tell us the truth?

TROI
He's still in shock... it's hard
to know what's going on in his
mind.
"

"
Quote:
He turns away and goes to the mirror hanging on a
nearby wall.

He stares at his reflection. Then makes his face
utterly impassive.

TIMOTHY
(Data-like)
I am designed to exceed human
capacity...

He tilts his head in imitation of Data, watching the
result in the mirror until he gets it right. Again,
his voice is an imitation of Data's.

TIMOTHY
(continuing)
That is correct...
"

"
Quote:
OFF another head tilt, as -- in his own mind -- boy
becomes android...
"

"
Quote:
TROI
So... you're no longer a Human?

He cocks his head in pure Data fashion.

TIMOTHY
I'm an android.

TROI
When did this happen?

TIMOTHY
I've always been an android.

TROI
What's it like... being an
android?

TIMOTHY
I am designed to exceed human
capacity both mentally and
physically. But I do not
experience emotions.
"

"
Quote:
TROI
I know it sounds unusual - but
it is understandable.
Technically, it's called
enantiodromia. Conversion into
the opposite. Timothy went from
Human to machine. From being
emotional to being emotionless.
But the underlying trauma is still
there. He's just found a new way
to repress it.

PICARD
How long will this behavior last?

TROI
As long as he needs it to.
Timothy is rebuilding his identity
as best he can. The android
persona is only one step along
the way. When he becomes stronger
and more sure of himself, it
should drop away naturally.
"

"
Quote:
PICARD
(gently)
Timothy, can you tell us what
happened to your ship?

TIMOTHY
I did tell you.

Timothy's struggling to hold on to the android fantasy,
but it's wavering. He gives a few Data-like head
tilts. Picard glances at Troi.

TROI
Tell us again...

TIMOTHY
(evenly)
We were attacked.

STAR TREK: "Hero Worship" - REV. 10/16/91 - ACT FOUR 49.

79A CONTINUED:

DATA
That is highly unlikely. Our
investigations have clearly
demonstrated --

TIMOTHY
-- We were attacked! We were
attacked!

DATA
Timothy, androids do not lie.

A silent beat. Like a toppled wall, Timothy's fantasy
crumbles.

TIMOTHY
(quiet; horrified)
It was me.

Everyone's taken aback.

DATA
Please explain.

TIMOTHY
It was me. I did it. I killed
them all...
"

"
Quote:
Picard, Troi and Data are still reacting to Timothy's
revelation. Timothy speaks quietly, haltingly. He
shivers, repressing sobs, as the agony of revealing
his darkest secret emerges...

TIMOTHY
Everything was shaking. I lost
my balance. I was just trying
to hold on to something. I didn't
mean to do it.

PICARD
What didn't you mean to do,
Timothy?

TIMOTHY
My arm... it hit the computer
panel. That's what destroyed the
ship.

The adults exchange a glance.

TROI
The ship was damaged when your
arm hit the computer panel... ?

Tears roll down his cheek as he nods silently.

TROI
Timothy, listen to me -- the
damage to your ship might have
occurred at the same time you
touched the panel but it was only
a coincidence... this was not
your fault...

TIMOTHY
Yes it was...
"

"
Quote:
DATA
It is not possible. The onboard
control systems for every starship
require a user code clearance.
You could not have inadvertantly
affected any of the Vico's
systems.

Timothy doesn't quite get it.

PICARD
Your computer had safety
precautions. There's nothing
you could have touched that would
have damaged your ship.

Timothy is silent, trying to understand. Troi puts
a hand on his shoulder.

TROI
You're not responsible for what
happened to your parents.
"

"
Quote:
TIMOTHY
Can we still do things together
-- even if I'm not really an
android?

DATA
I have many Human friends. I
would be pleased to count you
among them.

TIMOTHY
That would be...

Timothy smiles -- the first time we've seen a genuine
child's smile.

TIMOTHY
(continuing)
...acceptable.
"

Okay this reply got out of hand lol, many of my replies do Sky. Listen, I want you to watch the Star Trek episode called "Hero Worship", season 5 episode 11 in the season. The dialog is above in this post. There is one click here if your Adobe Flash Player is working at all, mine wasn't today. In it a boy has a traumatic incident, and finds safety in imitating an android, perfect, no emotions, no fear, no mistakes.

It is an interesting piece, going through a boy's reaction to trauma, while not mirroring abuse, it is a sense of what goes through a male child's mind. It makes me wonder what could have happened if an entire community was urgently searching for the answers, as if their lives would be negatively affected if they did not help this one young traumatized boy.

You asked for an example and this is the first thing I thought of, sorry if it is lame. Let's talk about it when you are finished.

Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#407220 - 08/19/12 11:44 AM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
I can't find the episode right now but I think what you're saying is that I'm trying to imitate my life without the abuse.

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#407221 - 08/19/12 12:32 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Yeah, that's about it Sky. We "imitate", in that in mimicking the movements of others, we distance ourselves from the abuse and it's effects. We "mirror" the actions of those we see, so that we do not have to be emotionally involved in life. Without emotions, we can go through life, be functional. Should anyone peer closely, they would only see the imitation, the perfect mimicking of those we follow who are successful, above and beyond. If there is success, there can be nothing else, right? Wrong, but we did not know that.

In the beginning, being perfect means we take the "image" and analyse it, and imitate the success until we master the art of it. It is only later, when the success has been realized that we lose the perfection, breakdown and begin to consider our "beginnings" and wonder at the persistent self doubt and destruction we may have felt. This creates a need for healing, but instead coping mechanisms like drinking, porn and sexual acting out drive us. What we should heal from gets covered over with... ok, I am gonna shut up now. I have had years of recovery, fellow survivor, and am trying to offer that in one post. Sorry for the manic thoughts...

Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#407576 - 08/22/12 05:45 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SamV]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
That's certainly a compelling argument but I wish one of the therapists on this board could tell me. I really want to know what this is from a medical standpoint.

Going to bring up PTSD with my Psych when I visit him in September.

Back to topic - Porn, acting out and this 'Perfect Guy' - I can buy that this is me trying to imagine my life without the abuse but there seems to be more to the story. P.G. seems to be trying to tell me something. What is he trying to say?

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#407587 - 08/22/12 08:48 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Sky, may I offer a left turn?

Don't:
-project adult feelings onto the abuse.
-say what would have happened in hindsight, what you may have done differently with shame.
Don't listen when others say what they would have done differently, they have no idea.
Don't ask, "Why didn't I run, scream, fight, leave?"
Don't search for specifics about the assault until the feelings overwhelm you. As the memories come, reason with them, calm yourself and slowly take in each event, posting, replying and understanding your innocence and hope for the future.
Don't ask blaming questions such as, "Why was I wearing that? Why was I there? Did I lead him/her on?"
Don't ask irrelevant questions such as, "Was he/she good looking?" "Was I attracted?"
Don't allow other's to make your decisions, you are going to need that, urgently.
Don't forget that recovery from sexual assault is an ongoing process that takes months, years or a lifetime.
Don't forget to take care of yourself. You can't recover if you don't support yourself.

Simply put, recovery is different than surviving. Survivors keep chasing the cure, recovery let's the "cure" come to us.

Patience Sky, this is a marathon, not a horse race, and right now in the points standing, your are leading by a nose. wink

Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#407800 - 08/24/12 12:40 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SamV]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
I dig what you're saying but I'd simply like to know what this part of my head is saying to me. It's like it's trying to communicate something important and I'm not getting it and it doesn't stop trying to say it.

What is it?

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#408977 - 09/04/12 10:50 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
quasimodo Offline


Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Kansas City, Kansas
Guilt used to eat me alive. My guilt was so complete that I felt it was partly my fault, while being raped next to another child, that I could not help them in any way. I can hear her crying now when I bring up those memories. But that is how screwed up our heads get because of this crap.

Get rid of the guilt.

My guilt told me I deserved everything I was doing to myself. My mind was trying to kill me.

Thankfully I "crashed and burned" with alcoholism and found AA.

I have no guilt about what happened. I have not one regret about anything in my past. If I could go back and change things, I wouldn't, because I like who I am now. I know where I am, I know the score, and I know where I am going. I am where I am now BECAUSE of my past. Don't know why, but here I am.

lb


Edited by quasimodo (09/04/12 10:52 PM)

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