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#406681 - 08/13/12 01:14 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: Jude]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Quote:
Be aware that some guys will have a problem with some of your back round because of their own trauma. You are still welcome here, without judgement.


Thanks for that. I can never justify what I did to those boys and I carry that guilt and shame today. I'm a family man with a nice job and I still hate myself for what I did. I always will. I think I'd rather be guilty of murder than this.

Quote:
Alas fellow survivor, it is not to be. Nothing, save porn OR offending survivors OR perpetrators( the commonality is in the assumption of the act of grooming, nothing more in this context) can again drown us in that groomed "love", acceptance and intimacy.

We desperately need to detach ourselves from that grooming, that lesson, the control of which destroys us. That is what we do here, male survivor, in MaleSurvivor. We learn to love in terms of respect, of admiration of human will and inalienable right, in mutual equality.


I hear what you're saying and I agree with it ... the acting out certainly fits that description. The problem is that when I'm acting out, I feel like I'm rebelling against the shame I feel.

What is the shame and why does acting sexually outside 'feel' (according to whatever my baggage is) like the answer?





Edited by SkyLukewalker (08/13/12 01:18 PM)

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#406704 - 08/13/12 06:13 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Shame is :A painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior. Words like shame are: disgrace - dishonour - dishonor - ignominy - opprobrium.

When we act out, viewing pornography, phone sex, hooking up, or masturbating, we attempt to connect with the fantastical feelings of "first abuse" that completely overwhelmed us. This may a bit difficult to understand, or accept, but we knew what we were doing was wrong, or at least, foolish. We did not care, we hungered for the attention, we thirsted for the acceptance. We knew it was wrong, and we did it anyway, thus shame.

You may be rebelling against the negative feelings that you had at that age, feeling alone, feeling abandoned, rejected by your distracted parents. This is a composite issue, Sky. Almost no one wants to be "different", the abuse you suffered was a chance, a foolish chance, but one through peer pressure and acceptance you took. While you made the choice, you were not to blame. Your parents are to blame, not you. They conceived you, and they owed you time and attention, gifts and praise, protection, lessons, discipline, smiles, acceptance, yes love. Your "eyes" of awareness, should have been for the present and future, assured that the past was exactly as it should be, that you were "right on track", and maybe a little bit ahead.

That was the past, Sky. Now it is up to you, you are the parent. Show your survivor the attention, forgiveness, mercy and joy he is owed. Forgive him for his foolishness, for his mad desire to find that overwhelming acceptance, that even yesterday, or this morning when he looked at porn, that you forgive him. This is impossibly hard, Sky, but look in the mirror, touch his face and tell him you were sorry for what he endured. Cry. Be amazed at his strength and conviction to survive, the sheer determination to keep going. With kind eyes, reassure him you will take care of him, you will never let him go and you will always answer, will always respond kindly. Smile. Touch your heart with an open hand, calm his beating heart. Hug yourself as you would a distraught child. Speak consoling things, and hope for better times with recovery soon, very soon.
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#406719 - 08/13/12 08:43 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 409
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Excellent post Sam.
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Jim
Male/USA

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#406720 - 08/13/12 08:46 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 409
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Excellent post Sam.
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#406728 - 08/13/12 09:11 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SamV]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
I appreciate the words, guys, I do. Here's the extra bugaboo:

The reason all of this came to the surface is because I had a conversation with a spiritual adviser a couple of weeks ago. He had been checking up on me, was aware that I had a problem with 'porn' in the past. He asked me about it again and also asked about what kind of porn. I had to admit, with tears in my eyes, that I had relapsed on occasion and not only with straight porn but with gay porn.

My world caved in again - this guy is really nice but he's an old-school guy in his late 70s and the mechanics of child sexual abuse are frankly beyond him. I can't begin to explain to him - in any way that he'd understand - why this is happening. I wouldn't blame him if he was frightened for my son or for the kids in our congregation. I have no idea how on earth to explain this to him.

So - I appreciate the affirmations but my reason in opening up now is much more concrete. I don't know how to explain this to him but I think for my sake as well as my family's, I'd better find a way.

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#406729 - 08/13/12 09:28 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 409
Loc: Louisiana, USA
How much work is he willing to do to understand the situation, Sky? Perhaps you could guide him to some articles here, or give him the book Victims No Longer.

Just some thoughts.
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#406732 - 08/13/12 09:41 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
These processes continue the effort to disclose, to reach out and to find support. Recovery specific to sexual abuse is often precipitated by an emergency in the life of the survivor. You seem to be within the event, Sky, and that can be.., well, unsettling at least.

There is a great article here in MS by Ken Singer on disclosure, what we can expect for ourselves and for others. This will help you to clarify what disclosure can do for you. http://www.malesurvivor.org/ArchivedPages/singer3.html

It may not be possible to explain this to him, we must offer that. The abuse, the offense and/or the crime is not in thinking about an offense, as has been recently said, it is in the act. Flashbacks, memories of the situation and of pornographic images are automatic, they are not controlled. When we react in anger or frustration at our perceived failing, we give them power and interest. Our conscious can prioritize those images as having a powerful effect, and retain them. If someone were to share with you a similar struggle, how would you respond? What advice would you give them? No one can read hearts, but intentions only. If you are repentant and have an affliction that was thrust upon you, then as a Christian, you can be forgiven 77 times, meaning throughout your lifetime, according to Christian teaching.

It may be best that when you attempt to discuss this with the Advisor, that you and your wife speak with him. in that context there is support, a boundary for your children from any acting out. While this is not an issue within your fortitude Sky, it may be in his, and this additional protection for your children may placate him.

Allow him to speak about the wrong and the righteous. Be sincere in your responses. If the life you seek is the life you present to him, the above information will make it's way into it.
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#406736 - 08/13/12 10:06 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SkyLukewalker]
Publius Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 396
Loc: OH
I appreciate your candor and am relieved to hear about your rehabilitation as a youth. You see I was one of those younger kids (although I was only 4). I was groomed with video games and special games by a kid three years my senior. I also broke down to my mother except the police never got involved and the school failed me so he kept abusing kids well into adolescence while I received no assistance whatsoever. Don't take this the wrong way but I am glad you got caught.

As much as I want to hate on you in this thread and condemn you outright I recognize you were only a boy yourself, victimized, and largely unaware of the greater implications of your actions. I realize the real person I hate is the adult who started the cycle in yours and my neighborhood. Your rehabilitation and continued recovery can be a testament to the possibility of healing despite grave wounds. Keep at it and good luck.


Edited by Publius (08/13/12 10:08 PM)
_________________________
"Life is like this dark tunnel. You may not always see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if you keep moving, you will come to a better place." ~ General Iroh

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#406738 - 08/13/12 10:17 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: SamV]
Job121 Offline


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: sasuva
When we act out, viewing pornography, phone sex, hooking up, or masturbating, we attempt to connect with the fantastical feelings of "first abuse" that completely overwhelmed us. This may a bit difficult to understand, or accept, but we knew what we were doing was wrong, or at least, foolish. We did not care, we hungered for the attention, we thirsted for the acceptance. We knew it was wrong, and we did it anyway, thus shame.


I never realized acting out was all of these things. I thought it was actual sex... Definitely changes my ways of thinking...

Sky... you are healing... I definitely get it... try to be easy on yourself.

Job
www.coresaving.com
_________________________
Job
www.coresaving.com

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#406745 - 08/13/12 11:33 PM Re: Guilt ... Baggage (TRIGGER WARNING) [Re: Publius]
SkyLukewalker Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 31
Loc: West Coast, US
Quote:
Don't take this the wrong way but I am glad you got caught.


I don't take it the wrong way ... I'm glad I got caught, too. I think it saved my life. I can't judge you if you're angry with me - I know I hurt people.

I'm so very, terribly, sorry for your pain.

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