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#405984 - 08/06/12 09:55 AM Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN
tshodson Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 131
Joe Paterno's family is trying to appeal the NCAA sanctions against Penn State. PLEASE people...give it a rest and gain some perspective.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-ncaa-sanctions

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#405985 - 08/06/12 09:56 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
tshodson Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 131

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#405986 - 08/06/12 09:59 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
tshodson Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 131
This was originally posted by a member in another thread. I read it. It deserves posting again...

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/1...g-to-irrational

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#405991 - 08/06/12 10:11 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 562
Glad they rejected the appeal. The Paterno clan is clinging to their denial for their dear lives. Can you imagine the depression they will feel if they move out of the denial stage?

They probably will be stuck in denial for the rest of their lives.

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#405992 - 08/06/12 10:13 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1790
It is sad how a parent or spouse can condone such behavior. Children learn from a parent--if abuse is acceptable to a parent it will be passed to the child. It is not love if the family believes his actions were acceptable but rather he had control and manipulated his family in life--creating a false persona that he was their hero, always there for them--most likely he was not--his words were more important than his actions. Sadly Joe Paterno knowingly and willingly allowed and by silence and his actions encouraged the brutal treatment of children. I am sad for his children-what a sad legacy to pass on--abuse is acceptable--now his children will probably pass it on to their children--one day the pattern will turn family member against another family member--then maybe a lesson will be learned.


Edited by KMCINVA (08/06/12 10:34 AM)

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#405993 - 08/06/12 10:15 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
tshodson Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 131
Here is another link to the CBS story...This one works...
http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/1...g-to-irrational

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#406017 - 08/06/12 05:30 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
cant_remember Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Penn State board of trustees member(s) seeking another appeal of NCAA sanctions, on the grounds that Penn State president Erickson didn't have the legal authority to accept the sanctions in the first place.

Expecting the NCAA to reject the appeal, Penn State BOT members are planning a federal lawsuit -- so don't expect this to die any time soon:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-lawsuit-denial
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#406032 - 08/06/12 07:12 PM * [Re: tshodson]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/29/13 11:51 AM)

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#406048 - 08/06/12 09:52 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Ohio
The PSU supporters need to understand at some point that the more they keep picking at the wound the uglier it is going to get. They need to be reminded I guess that the Department of Education is also investigating. The Paterno Estate will face claims from the victims. They will have every chance to present all the evidence they can muster of all the things that Joe Paterno did to stop Jerry Sandusky. From the Freeh report, we have seen more evidence that he knew than we could ever have expected. I have a feeling more digging will be done and it won't look any better. When the victims from the 70's and possibly 60's start coming forward...anyone doubt that 1998 is not really the first time anybody was aware that Sandusky was a predator?
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#406049 - 08/06/12 10:09 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
LN3(SS) Offline
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Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Good for the Trustees.

If the NCAA's case is ironclad, then they should have no problem in hearing the appeal.

This is what happens when things are handled outside the formal channels.

Brian
_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#406053 - 08/06/12 10:49 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
cant_remember Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
I think it's good that this is getting drawn out, too, but probably for different reasons.

I agree that this is the consequence of accepting such harsh sanctions outside of normal protocol, but the PSU BOT and the Penn State community at large will one day wish they took the deal on the table.

What this also might do (although not sure how) is keep the story alive about what exactly was going on at Second Mile.

By keeping this story alive by fighting the sanctions, eventually in federal court, Penn State is going to take this thing way too far.

It can do nothing but good for the survivor community for this story to stay in the news cycle for as long as possible.


Edited by cant_remember (08/06/12 10:49 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity
_________________________
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#406057 - 08/06/12 11:48 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
catfish86 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Ohio
The more they draw this out, we all know this is not all there is to this story, the more they are going to bring to light. People who suffered at the hands of this crowd will grow increasingly sick of the excuses, minimizing and rationalizations.
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#406119 - 08/07/12 03:35 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Jim1104 Offline
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Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
What bugs me about the sanctions, etc. is what effect, if any, they might have on the innocent kids at the University and, more particularly, the kid's playing football.

I would hope that those who played and won the games are not really penalized by the wins being vacated.

As to the record books not reflecting that Joe Paterno was the winningest coach in history? I could care less. The fact is, his teams won the games and, it does not make a difference what the record books say. I understand this is meaningful to some people, but if the only price he has to pay, and it is posthumus anyway, then he has gotten off extremely cheaply compared to the kid's whose lives he could have saved.

As to the effect on Penn State, well, I know the revenues will go down and the athletic program will suffer. I am sorry this is so because of the athletes it may effect, but I don't grieve so much for the leadership.

A few facts from the June 2011 Penn State Financial statements:

Net worth (assets less liabilities) $5.7 billion.
Net income, before any investmen income 343 million.
Cash at end of year 1.6 billion.
Unrestricted endowment investments 472 million.

I think they can afford the $60 million penalty.

Bottom line, I don't know what all the Free report said, and I don't really care. Ultimately, the NCAA needs to act responsibly and within whatever rules guide it and Penn State needs to do the same. The guilty should accept their responsibilities and atone to the extent they can. The fallout to the innocent kids should be minimized.

Ok, sorry to rant.

Jim
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#406167 - 08/07/12 10:31 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Ohio
The MEN who are CHOOSING to play football at Penn State are doing so with full knowledge of the sanctions and the opportunity to play at another school without penalty. As to the players losing victories, how many of them, as Lavar Arrington acknowledged, were used as rewards for sexual favors or silence? The prevention of this is that every college player that sees a coach or program official playing grab-*** with the ball boys will be more likely to say something if they know their wins are in jeopardy.
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#406198 - 08/08/12 10:54 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Sandusky's use of the team's record as an incentive to come to games does not diminish the effort put forth by the team to EARN those wins. One is mutually exclusive from the other.

Do remember that things WERE said. McQueary said something. Paterno said something. The TEAMS still lost those wins.

Brian
_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#406207 - 08/08/12 01:14 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
I agree with the contributors who're happy about the Paterno family and the Trustees defiant appeals. It does keep the spectre of this ugly story hanging around a little longer. It illustrates the insane lengths persons and institutions will go to in order to diminish and deny, even in the face of overwhelming evidence and a criminal conviction. And perhaps it opens Penn State to a whole new round of possible penalties? As I understand it, part of the NCAA agreement with Erickson was for PSU to take their lumps and not complain or else suffer an even harsher rebuke -the death penalty. Looks like the B.o.T. won't take their lumps and the board members who spent 14 years looking the other way are suddenly very involved in issuing their self-serving complaints. It's just amazing how interested and involved folks become when tens of millions of $$$ are at stake. So this a violation of the penalty agreement Erickson signed. Even if the court sided with the Board in ruling Erickson had no authority to accept, the Board is playing with fire. The NCAA could full well come back and decree the death penalty that Erickson worked to keep at bay. How would that suit the board?

I can't see the court siding with the Board, though. This looks more like an out of touch Board trying to save face within a very cloistered community. I sincerely hope that when the court rules on this case it will also take the opportunity to formally and publicly condemn the board for its frivolous lawsuit, it's failures at oversight and it's defiant refusal to refresh it's own leadership with a more competant membership.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#406213 - 08/08/12 02:30 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
have to wonder what paterno, mcqueary, shultz, curley and spanier said, after 2001 when they saw him around campus...

"oh hey, jerry!!"
" glad that you have an office just down the hall from mine."
"nice to see you bringing over soooo many disadvantaged boys here to see the campus, football stadium, lockerroom and showers."
" yeah, jerry, we know you put it to some kid in the shower, but it's great to see you here."
"here, jerry, take some tickets to give to some of them boys you bring over here. let them enjoy the game."

yup, they all said something before... makes ya wonder what else they had to say later... *shakes head*....
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406219 - 08/08/12 04:28 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: LN3(SS)]
MrEdd Offline
Member
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: LN3(SS)
Sandusky's use of the team's record as an incentive to come to games does not diminish the effort put forth by the team to EARN those wins. One is mutually exclusive from the other.

Do remember that things WERE said. McQueary said something. Paterno said something. The TEAMS still lost those wins.

Brian


Try to do one thing in your mind.

I know this will be very difficult for you, you have made this clear. It may prove to be impossible...

Embrace the reality that football is just an afternoon or evening's entertainment.

It isn't anything more than that.
It never has been.
It never can be.

It is, in every way, equivelent to a good game of scrabble.
Or a play in some community theater.
watching a football game, or playing in one is like...reading or drawing a comic book. Nothing more.

Period.

It has no more import, and is worth zero more consideration than any of those other activities.

Ridiculous money spent by self indulgent fans does not and never can give it one iota more importance.

The rape of children, on the other hand is life or death.

If you have some fetish for football, perhaps ESPN has forums better suited to indulging it.

The students, alumni, and players have lost... The equivelent of a few month's issues of Spiderman.
Thats it.
Nothing more.
They will get over it, no matter how many of them there are.


Edited by MrEdd (08/08/12 08:40 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo
_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

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#406230 - 08/08/12 08:25 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: LN3(SS)]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: LN3(SS)
Sandusky's use of the team's record as an incentive to come to games does not diminish the effort put forth by the team to EARN those wins. One is mutually exclusive from the other.

Do remember that things WERE said. McQueary said something. Paterno said something. The TEAMS still lost those wins.

Brian


I Piss on NCAA football. I piss on the players. I piss on Penn State. I'll sht on Paterno's grave when i find it. I HOPE the prisoners will grind Sandusky-mush into the concrete!

I would have paid $1000 cash to piss on Paterno's statue when they tore it down. $5000 to sht on it...$5000 more to hammer at it with a sledge for 10 minutes.

I'm SO SO glad the idiot public has seen what's under the covers the best NCAA Div PoofBall Team!!!

Anyone who can mourn the passing of this team, its accomplishments, or even its shadow has no freaking idea what's up in this life.

Burn in HELL Paterno!
Burn in HELL Sandusky!
Burn in HELL Mcqeary!
Burn in HELL Penn State Board!

I would be fully disgusted if I or anyone I knew still elected to play for that Satanic team.
_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#406290 - 08/09/12 10:16 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Former players are also appealing the sanctions. I couldn't agree with this article more.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-ncaa-sanctions

Brian
_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#406292 - 08/09/12 10:47 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: LN3(SS)]
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: LN3(SS)
Former players are also appealing the sanctions. I couldn't agree with this article more.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-ncaa-sanctions

Brian


Because egotistical blowhards throwing infantile tantrums is so newsworthy.
_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

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#406296 - 08/09/12 11:07 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
Former players losing wins.

Yup, that is so important that if they don't have them their lives are completely shattered. They will have to have years upon years of therapy just to make it through every single day. Yup, their lives are totally shattered now.

Perhaps they ought to start a support site for athletes that lose wins. Get Congress to provide funding so that they can get the help they need. Hate how I read in the newspaper about all these athletes that kill themselves because their wins were taken away.

doesn't the world understand how much damage it does to these athletes? It sickens me when these sexually abused boys don't just get over it when it's really the athletes that are truly tormented from having their wins taken away.

*sarcasm now off*
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406301 - 08/09/12 12:16 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
brian,

you, i'm guessing, are believing that the sanctions that were handed down hit innocent people.?.?

well, if you do believe that, then you of all people should know that when it comes to sexual abuse that there are innocent people that get hurt, other than the actual victims....

family members, spouses, children and so on... there are innocent people that get hurt along the way...

what i'm believing is that the ncaa said these are the sanctions that will cause the least amount of hurt to innocents caught up in the middle of this.. told the president of penn state to take it or there will be more harsh sanctions that will come...

the president, i'm guessing, signed off on that knowing full well that ncaa could've delivered more harsh sanctions to the school than what they did....

if these, former players, are worried about their wins instead of the damage to lives that were done there, that speaks volumes to me of what's more important to them...

i'm an athlete. i'm very good a lot of sports, and i wouldn't even think twice of any of my wins being taken away, honors that i won, etc. if i knew that children were being abused while i played for a school that harbored a predator... those wins and honors that i won do not even come close to the welfare of children.... i would gladly give up all the wins i had if i knew it would help even one child/adult to get through their issues...


Edited by Obi (08/09/12 12:16 PM)
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406302 - 08/09/12 12:27 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
even in my professional life...

i know i'm one of the best in the world at what i do...

in 2006, i won several awards, even did something that nobody else has ever done, in my field, and that is tied myself for the overall champion... i tied myself in a competition that is world-wide! me! i did that! got the plaques, ribbons, magazine recognition and so on....

however, i would STILL not have a problem if that was taken away because of a sexual abuse cover up that happened...

those that were sexually abused are MORE important than any win...

i know how good i am at what i do... do i need a WIN, AWARD, HONOR to prove that? no... it's meaningless as compared to a child being abused...
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406305 - 08/09/12 01:44 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
The fallacy of Brian's argument (and the argument of his fellow Penn State defenders) is that somehow the members of the football team are "victims" of the NCAA. This is not true.

The student-athletes of the Penn State football program are young men who have a choice: transfer anywhere and play ball without sitting out a year, OR stay at Penn State and bask in the love of Penn State fans as they work to rebuild the program.

Sandusky's victims had no choice. There is no comparison.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#406417 - 08/10/12 04:25 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
If I may, the fallacy of the last five or six replies is the presumption that one may dissuade an internel troll from posting inflammatory statements. In fact, the opposite is the case. The more we respond to a troll with outrage and dismay, or even logical refutations, the more the troll has succeeded in his goal: inciting a response. That's the aim of trolls, "to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure."

Let's have fun deconstructing our pet troll, shall we? I mean why not? He's having rather a lot of of with us. One interesting theory as to why trolls troll is that it is a normative behavior that asserts a social identity among a certain user group. This collective forum at MS is our user group. Within this group we have specific in-groups and out-groups based, I think, on sheer numbers. By far, the largest in-group within our population is the CSA group. It is so large, in fact, that many of us may not even realize there are out-groups. Because the troll is not a member of this in-group he self-identifies as a member of an "opposite" out-group. As such the troll utilizes passive-aggressive tactics to accentuate the subtle yet substantial differences between the two. Of course, this is a manufactured fracas. Two interest groups with overlapping needs need not become oppositional. Mustard users are not at war with ketchup users at the condiment bar. Both have similar and yet distinct interests. They each get what they need and move on. Sadly, our troll would rather point out these differences ad nauseum than fix his own burger.

Because the troll desires attention and he seeks negative attention rather than positive, it defeats our purpose to respond to his negativity in any way. ever. Any response only reinforces the negative attention seeking behavior and it fuels still more of the same. So regardless of where any of us stand on the issues at Penn State, one conclusion is clear. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

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#406420 - 08/10/12 04:58 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Actually, I've got the correct answer to it all right here in this linked article:

THIS guy has it knocked!

THE Correct Perspective
_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#406444 - 08/11/12 12:06 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
scottyg,

while i don't agree with brian's views on this subject, he isn't a troll...

he's passionate like everyone else here... i think his passion is misguided in this issue, but i don't think it's right to take him down like that...

he's a survivor, like everyone else here...

i have no issue if you want to debate the topic... i do take issue with attacking him....

debate the issue... not the person...
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406450 - 08/11/12 01:19 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
While I commend obi for his valiant effort to remain inclusive and create harmony I fear he may not have been paying attention.

Survivors who contribute in a positive way to the MS forum post their own questions / concerns or respond in earnest to others who're in need. That is what is so remarkable about our community.

Others are here to be disruptive and have little more to offer than to focus on single subject issues with incredibly divisive and insensitive postings like this:

Sandusky Trial and ASA

or this:

Paterno Defense

or this

Paterno Statue

or this

Paterno Family Again

While I've reached out both publicly and privately to assuage this unfounded level of animosity directed at fellow members of this community it has gone nowhere. An attempt has been made to debate the issue and the answer has come back that there will be no debate. Only steadfast dogmatism and a contnued onslaught of inflamatory statements.

Fine. MS doesn't limit survivors speech. Obi has his considered opinion, as do I. My aim was simply to encourage the community to resist the urge to respond to remarks that encite a strong reaction. I am not naming names, I encourage everyone to ignore any contributor who posts inflamatory statements that are clearly aimed at divisiveness. Let the Mods and admns deal with policing these matters. I simply say bygones.

To make clear, I think "misguided passion" is a rather generous description of the tactics we're debating here. I really don't see any reaching out or attempts to heal with these posts. There is no meaningful exchange of ideas, as you've done obi, in your chastening me not to single out individuals with an unflattering label. These "debates" are talk-only regurgitations of myopic logic. There is no consideration of viewpoints or the feelings of others. There is only digging-in. When the goal is to be deeply insulted and to express that level of indignation time and time again within an otherwise innocent community we have something beyond missguided passion. We have classic trolling. And as much as I admire the inclusiveness that you embody with your post and that we all share within this community, I am not so diplomatic as to enable a known instigator to escape comment.

_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#406465 - 08/11/12 08:27 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
scottyg,

with all due respect, i went back through the threads you provided links for and read every one of brian's posts.

I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH HIS THOUGHTS!



however, in all of his posts, not a single one of them did he attack any other user. he debated the issues. he debated the thoughts... he didn't attack other users....

i'll even admit that i got snarky in some of my replies towards his thoughts.. even in this thread i posted a very sarcastic reply to what i thought about the former players having the wins taken away.

he's passionate about his thoughts on the subject and does have the right to express them. even though they are misguided.

but then i completely understand where you are coming from, scottyg. i take issue with a particular user on this board that has an agenda to take swipes at survivors here on ms. had many battles with this user and i have attacked that user for attacking survivors. yes, it is wrong of me to do so. yes, i should follow proper procedure and just report the posts/user to the mods to take care of. yes, i let my emotions take over and went after this user.

i agree with a point that you did make in that we probably shouldn't respond to his posts, if all it's going to do is create heated debates...

i also know that this discussion we're having is not on topic with the thread. for that i apologize to you and to everyone else in this thread. we can take it to pm's if you wish to discuss this further.
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

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#406477 - 08/11/12 02:21 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: Obi]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Obi-
This thread has gone way off topic but our discourse here is far more important than whatever the origional issue was. I wish THIS topic had its own thread but it is what it is. Right now I think it's of the utmost importance to flesh out our reasoning in greater detail. I want the community to digest our perspectives and not hide in the shadows with PMs.

The ultimate question is what will the community allow within these forums? How do we police ourselves when we detect a rising level of unhelpful or unhealthy discourse? This issue is important to me because I've learned from another long time contributer that certain members or groups have become "punching bags" within MS in the past. As was explained to me, this was further aggrivated by survivors standing silently by while others are demeaned. This was silence in the name of inclusiveness and non-confrontation. I promised myself and that contrbutor, who incidentally has been censored, that I would not sit idle when I detected those unhealthy discourses. I am taking a stand, perhaps in error, for healthy discourse and healing messages and condeming strategies that attempt to agitate and divide us.

In the process I've had to single out an individual who has developed a new career escalating the tension with this forum. I will concede that like yourself, I've become emotional. Although I was vindictive, my aim was less to attack and insult and more to shed light on a subtle manipulation perpatrated by one among us. There is a highly developed level of perniciousness to the tactic. Post a comment watch the forum explode. Lay back, post again, wait for the fallout. One post, two posts there may be an argument that this represents a passion about an issue. However, numerous posts containing the same defiant mantra and without the benefit of any reasoning other than this how it should be because I say so speaks to a much darker purpose. I reject the ideas of inclusion, of non-confrontation, of the diversity of ideas when an individual is making it a sport to create needless turmoil within our ranks. I've reached out to create a dialogue like this one and I've been ignored. I conclude that the ideas expressed are not passionate yet misguided. They are intended to cause hurt.

I know this is out of line compared to our normalized level of discourse. Perhaps I will be the one who is disciplined for "name calling." It will be intersting to see if subtle manipulations are upheld because they do not rise to the level of a blatant infraction while my overt expressions are censored because they create conflict. To be sure, I dropped the troll label to describe an individual who has moved from making positive contributions to someone operating out of a need to seek negative attention. I felt it was an accurate descriptor of the actions we are witnessing. You are correct to warn me that it is also an attack and a violation.

I am unsure how to balance a desire to sheild my fellow survivors from an individual who's going off the rails with his passive-agressive tactics and the desire to remain a voice of reason and support who remains in good standing within the larger community.

-Scott
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And many other things to make it look good.
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#406478 - 08/11/12 02:34 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
scottyg,

respectful reply, which i will respond to.

i know this may seem simple, but sometimes hard to do because i fall into the trap from time to time..

but, if you feel that there is a post/user that is being disruptive then report the post/user to the mods.

it is the mods job to take care of those situations.. it does not belong to us... you ask how do we police it? that is how, by reporting it to the mods. they will take care of the situation. that is part of their job.
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#406484 - 08/11/12 03:52 PM - [Re: Obi]
exhale Offline
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Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 101
-


Edited by exhale (01/13/13 11:45 PM)

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#406488 - 08/11/12 04:15 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
jesper,

as i have posted, a child's life is more important.....

even if that is all i worked toward.. would it hurt? yes. would i be upset? yes... but after i calmed down from the initial reaction to it and thought about it i would realize that in the end a child's life is more important....

and yes, jesper, you should know as well as anyone else here, that there are going to be other innocents hurt from a crime like this that has happened...there is collateral damage that happens....

the ncaa, more than likely, said that these are the sanctions and suggested that they accept them with no appeal, because if they don't that they could've sanctioned them even worse.... they could've handed penn state the death penalty...

as far as the former players go... the ones that are good enough to make it to the nfl are there...

as for future players, they can go to another school and play. they did not lose eligibility nor their scholarships... it's not like penn state is the ONLY school...

and as far as taking away the wins with regards to the victims, well, for me ( and this is only my opinion of how it affects me ) is that i see it that there is an organization out there that is willing to stand up to fight for the victims. they imposed a $60 mil fine that the money is to go towards organizations etc. to help with sexual abuse... the ncaa knowing what has happened there, my belief in that it only has seen the surface yet and that it goes more deeper than what is known now, did what they could do to show that they are not going to allow any school to do what it did and hurt that many kids... to me, i see, them showing that they are trying to do their part in helping in the fight of ending sexual abuse...
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#406491 - 08/11/12 04:35 PM - [Re: tshodson]
exhale Offline
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Registered: 08/12/10
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Edited by exhale (01/13/13 11:45 PM)

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#406501 - 08/11/12 06:49 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
jesper,

none of the students/athletes have lost their scholarships...

if you think that the sanctions they've received now were unfair, in some instances, that would've been NOTHING compared to what the death penalty would've done...
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#406502 - 08/11/12 07:02 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
catfish86 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Ohio
I think the sanctions are right on. To say it is unfair to "punish " the players who lost wins ignores the certainty that more incidents were witnessed than those brought out at trial. How many of these players either saw something and said nothing or were used as rewards for "good " behavior?
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#406508 - 08/11/12 08:47 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
GentleSoul Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 237
Loc: Manhattan
They understand our pain just as much as we understand theirs. Well, there are also Penn State students who are also survivors. Ohhhh, their hearts must be so torn. WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE PENN STATE SURVIVORS!!!

cry


Edited by GentleSoul (08/11/12 08:48 PM)
Edit Reason: i mispelt a wrod
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#406560 - 08/12/12 11:58 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: catfish86]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Do people not think that if such a scandal happened in any other organization that there wouldn't be consequences that proved detrimental to everyone associated with it? For example, if this happened at Wal-Mart would the effect not be bad for business and possibly lead to employee lay-offs or at least some sort of stigma connected to working for a business that failed to report child abuse? Its an unfortunate fact of life that poor management decisions rub off on everyone within the organization, whether they deserve it or not. At least the players at Penn State have the option of moving on without penalty. Most of us in the real world who have been affected by our superior's poor decisions wish we could be so lucky.
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#406686 - 08/13/12 01:54 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1399
Loc: kansas
i'm currently listening to the special meeting, that the penn state board of trustees, held last night with regards to the sanctions handed down...

first point - according to by-laws of the bot, and ncaa, the president DOES have the authority to sign off on the sanctions handed down. basically saying that anyone wanting to file a claim against the ncaa that the president did not have authority to sign off will lose.

second point - penn state president presented his discussions with the ncaa and what they were given... pretty much, the ncaa was going to lay down a multi-year death penalty, which would've been a LOT WORSE than the sancitons that were laid down...

in essence, for those that think the sanctions are unfair now, a multi-year death penalty would've been the end of penn state, all it's athletic programs and would've severely crippled the economy in that area of the state of pennsylvania...

the ncaa gave them this option over the mult-year death penalty... the president, and the board of trustees, accepts the sanctions.
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#406690 - 08/13/12 03:33 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
cant_remember Offline
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Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Thanks, Obi.
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#406718 - 08/13/12 08:43 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: Obi]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: Obi

in essence, for those that think the sanctions are unfair now, a multi-year death penalty would've been the end of penn state, all it's athletic programs and would've severely crippled the economy in that area of the state of pennsylvania...


And that's where we are still making human sacrifices. "Society!" "Civilization!" "Humanity!!" Earth people are none of those things.

So the Azteks, the Ancient Greeks, and the "whatevers" where oh so backward and stupid...sacrificing a virgin for greater prosperity in the village.

" Sh*t Charlie...His father is the family bread-winner. We can't put him in jail. The family will be on the streets for God's sake. We'll all have a talk with him and smooth this thing over."

"Kid...don't you go talking about Mr Sandusky that way! Don't you realize what he does for this community? ... for the poor? Hell, don't you realize what he's done for your very family? Stop telling such horrible LIES!"

So the boys were either human sacrifices for the prosperity of Happy Valley, OR they were unwilling prostitutes.
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#406752 - 08/14/12 02:57 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: Still]
ModTeam Offline
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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 691
Gentlemen,

While we all have points of view that can be deeply passionate on the topic, this is just a reminder to avoid anything resembling personal attacks and to encourage civil discourse. Your cooperation is appreciated.
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Private messages sent to this account are checked irregularly due to personnel and time constraints. Please send messages to one of the moderators for the forum that is concerned by user name, or if there is no named moderator, send a PM to any moderator.

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#406762 - 08/14/12 03:36 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
OMG! what I wrote above was not aimed at anyone here. Just stating a human trait. nothing to do with anyone here. please believe me.
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#406816 - 08/14/12 05:11 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: Still]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Rob. Not to worry. That Mod warning was a long time coming and it was aimed in my direction.

Your post was quite entertaining. I like the metaphor that we're still throwing our virgins into the volcano. Nothing to be anxious about. Please don't stop being outspoken.

-Scott

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#406823 - 08/14/12 06:40 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
cant_remember Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Heh, I think it was aimed at me, too. Carry on, Rob.
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