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#406477 - 08/11/12 02:21 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: Obi]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Obi-
This thread has gone way off topic but our discourse here is far more important than whatever the origional issue was. I wish THIS topic had its own thread but it is what it is. Right now I think it's of the utmost importance to flesh out our reasoning in greater detail. I want the community to digest our perspectives and not hide in the shadows with PMs.

The ultimate question is what will the community allow within these forums? How do we police ourselves when we detect a rising level of unhelpful or unhealthy discourse? This issue is important to me because I've learned from another long time contributer that certain members or groups have become "punching bags" within MS in the past. As was explained to me, this was further aggrivated by survivors standing silently by while others are demeaned. This was silence in the name of inclusiveness and non-confrontation. I promised myself and that contrbutor, who incidentally has been censored, that I would not sit idle when I detected those unhealthy discourses. I am taking a stand, perhaps in error, for healthy discourse and healing messages and condeming strategies that attempt to agitate and divide us.

In the process I've had to single out an individual who has developed a new career escalating the tension with this forum. I will concede that like yourself, I've become emotional. Although I was vindictive, my aim was less to attack and insult and more to shed light on a subtle manipulation perpatrated by one among us. There is a highly developed level of perniciousness to the tactic. Post a comment watch the forum explode. Lay back, post again, wait for the fallout. One post, two posts there may be an argument that this represents a passion about an issue. However, numerous posts containing the same defiant mantra and without the benefit of any reasoning other than this how it should be because I say so speaks to a much darker purpose. I reject the ideas of inclusion, of non-confrontation, of the diversity of ideas when an individual is making it a sport to create needless turmoil within our ranks. I've reached out to create a dialogue like this one and I've been ignored. I conclude that the ideas expressed are not passionate yet misguided. They are intended to cause hurt.

I know this is out of line compared to our normalized level of discourse. Perhaps I will be the one who is disciplined for "name calling." It will be intersting to see if subtle manipulations are upheld because they do not rise to the level of a blatant infraction while my overt expressions are censored because they create conflict. To be sure, I dropped the troll label to describe an individual who has moved from making positive contributions to someone operating out of a need to seek negative attention. I felt it was an accurate descriptor of the actions we are witnessing. You are correct to warn me that it is also an attack and a violation.

I am unsure how to balance a desire to sheild my fellow survivors from an individual who's going off the rails with his passive-agressive tactics and the desire to remain a voice of reason and support who remains in good standing within the larger community.

-Scott
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#406478 - 08/11/12 02:34 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1314
Loc: kansas
scottyg,

respectful reply, which i will respond to.

i know this may seem simple, but sometimes hard to do because i fall into the trap from time to time..

but, if you feel that there is a post/user that is being disruptive then report the post/user to the mods.

it is the mods job to take care of those situations.. it does not belong to us... you ask how do we police it? that is how, by reporting it to the mods. they will take care of the situation. that is part of their job.
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406484 - 08/11/12 03:52 PM - [Re: Obi]
exhale Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 101
-


Edited by exhale (01/13/13 11:45 PM)

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#406488 - 08/11/12 04:15 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1314
Loc: kansas
jesper,

as i have posted, a child's life is more important.....

even if that is all i worked toward.. would it hurt? yes. would i be upset? yes... but after i calmed down from the initial reaction to it and thought about it i would realize that in the end a child's life is more important....

and yes, jesper, you should know as well as anyone else here, that there are going to be other innocents hurt from a crime like this that has happened...there is collateral damage that happens....

the ncaa, more than likely, said that these are the sanctions and suggested that they accept them with no appeal, because if they don't that they could've sanctioned them even worse.... they could've handed penn state the death penalty...

as far as the former players go... the ones that are good enough to make it to the nfl are there...

as for future players, they can go to another school and play. they did not lose eligibility nor their scholarships... it's not like penn state is the ONLY school...

and as far as taking away the wins with regards to the victims, well, for me ( and this is only my opinion of how it affects me ) is that i see it that there is an organization out there that is willing to stand up to fight for the victims. they imposed a $60 mil fine that the money is to go towards organizations etc. to help with sexual abuse... the ncaa knowing what has happened there, my belief in that it only has seen the surface yet and that it goes more deeper than what is known now, did what they could do to show that they are not going to allow any school to do what it did and hurt that many kids... to me, i see, them showing that they are trying to do their part in helping in the fight of ending sexual abuse...
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406491 - 08/11/12 04:35 PM - [Re: tshodson]
exhale Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 101
-


Edited by exhale (01/13/13 11:45 PM)

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#406501 - 08/11/12 06:49 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1314
Loc: kansas
jesper,

none of the students/athletes have lost their scholarships...

if you think that the sanctions they've received now were unfair, in some instances, that would've been NOTHING compared to what the death penalty would've done...
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#406502 - 08/11/12 07:02 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
I think the sanctions are right on. To say it is unfair to "punish " the players who lost wins ignores the certainty that more incidents were witnessed than those brought out at trial. How many of these players either saw something and said nothing or were used as rewards for "good " behavior?
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#406508 - 08/11/12 08:47 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
GentleSoul Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 236
Loc: Manhattan
They understand our pain just as much as we understand theirs. Well, there are also Penn State students who are also survivors. Ohhhh, their hearts must be so torn. WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE PENN STATE SURVIVORS!!!

cry


Edited by GentleSoul (08/11/12 08:48 PM)
Edit Reason: i mispelt a wrod
_________________________
I can finally admit I pretend to say and do nice things so people will think I'm a standout guy.

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#406560 - 08/12/12 11:58 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: catfish86]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Do people not think that if such a scandal happened in any other organization that there wouldn't be consequences that proved detrimental to everyone associated with it? For example, if this happened at Wal-Mart would the effect not be bad for business and possibly lead to employee lay-offs or at least some sort of stigma connected to working for a business that failed to report child abuse? Its an unfortunate fact of life that poor management decisions rub off on everyone within the organization, whether they deserve it or not. At least the players at Penn State have the option of moving on without penalty. Most of us in the real world who have been affected by our superior's poor decisions wish we could be so lucky.
_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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#406686 - 08/13/12 01:54 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1314
Loc: kansas
i'm currently listening to the special meeting, that the penn state board of trustees, held last night with regards to the sanctions handed down...

first point - according to by-laws of the bot, and ncaa, the president DOES have the authority to sign off on the sanctions handed down. basically saying that anyone wanting to file a claim against the ncaa that the president did not have authority to sign off will lose.

second point - penn state president presented his discussions with the ncaa and what they were given... pretty much, the ncaa was going to lay down a multi-year death penalty, which would've been a LOT WORSE than the sancitons that were laid down...

in essence, for those that think the sanctions are unfair now, a multi-year death penalty would've been the end of penn state, all it's athletic programs and would've severely crippled the economy in that area of the state of pennsylvania...

the ncaa gave them this option over the mult-year death penalty... the president, and the board of trustees, accepts the sanctions.
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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