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#406292 - 08/09/12 10:47 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: LN3(SS)]
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: LN3(SS)
Former players are also appealing the sanctions. I couldn't agree with this article more.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-ncaa-sanctions

Brian


Because egotistical blowhards throwing infantile tantrums is so newsworthy.
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#406296 - 08/09/12 11:07 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1401
Loc: kansas
Former players losing wins.

Yup, that is so important that if they don't have them their lives are completely shattered. They will have to have years upon years of therapy just to make it through every single day. Yup, their lives are totally shattered now.

Perhaps they ought to start a support site for athletes that lose wins. Get Congress to provide funding so that they can get the help they need. Hate how I read in the newspaper about all these athletes that kill themselves because their wins were taken away.

doesn't the world understand how much damage it does to these athletes? It sickens me when these sexually abused boys don't just get over it when it's really the athletes that are truly tormented from having their wins taken away.

*sarcasm now off*
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#406301 - 08/09/12 12:16 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1401
Loc: kansas
brian,

you, i'm guessing, are believing that the sanctions that were handed down hit innocent people.?.?

well, if you do believe that, then you of all people should know that when it comes to sexual abuse that there are innocent people that get hurt, other than the actual victims....

family members, spouses, children and so on... there are innocent people that get hurt along the way...

what i'm believing is that the ncaa said these are the sanctions that will cause the least amount of hurt to innocents caught up in the middle of this.. told the president of penn state to take it or there will be more harsh sanctions that will come...

the president, i'm guessing, signed off on that knowing full well that ncaa could've delivered more harsh sanctions to the school than what they did....

if these, former players, are worried about their wins instead of the damage to lives that were done there, that speaks volumes to me of what's more important to them...

i'm an athlete. i'm very good a lot of sports, and i wouldn't even think twice of any of my wins being taken away, honors that i won, etc. if i knew that children were being abused while i played for a school that harbored a predator... those wins and honors that i won do not even come close to the welfare of children.... i would gladly give up all the wins i had if i knew it would help even one child/adult to get through their issues...


Edited by Obi (08/09/12 12:16 PM)
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#406302 - 08/09/12 12:27 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1401
Loc: kansas
even in my professional life...

i know i'm one of the best in the world at what i do...

in 2006, i won several awards, even did something that nobody else has ever done, in my field, and that is tied myself for the overall champion... i tied myself in a competition that is world-wide! me! i did that! got the plaques, ribbons, magazine recognition and so on....

however, i would STILL not have a problem if that was taken away because of a sexual abuse cover up that happened...

those that were sexually abused are MORE important than any win...

i know how good i am at what i do... do i need a WIN, AWARD, HONOR to prove that? no... it's meaningless as compared to a child being abused...
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#406305 - 08/09/12 01:44 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
The fallacy of Brian's argument (and the argument of his fellow Penn State defenders) is that somehow the members of the football team are "victims" of the NCAA. This is not true.

The student-athletes of the Penn State football program are young men who have a choice: transfer anywhere and play ball without sitting out a year, OR stay at Penn State and bask in the love of Penn State fans as they work to rebuild the program.

Sandusky's victims had no choice. There is no comparison.
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#406417 - 08/10/12 04:25 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
If I may, the fallacy of the last five or six replies is the presumption that one may dissuade an internel troll from posting inflammatory statements. In fact, the opposite is the case. The more we respond to a troll with outrage and dismay, or even logical refutations, the more the troll has succeeded in his goal: inciting a response. That's the aim of trolls, "to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure."

Let's have fun deconstructing our pet troll, shall we? I mean why not? He's having rather a lot of of with us. One interesting theory as to why trolls troll is that it is a normative behavior that asserts a social identity among a certain user group. This collective forum at MS is our user group. Within this group we have specific in-groups and out-groups based, I think, on sheer numbers. By far, the largest in-group within our population is the CSA group. It is so large, in fact, that many of us may not even realize there are out-groups. Because the troll is not a member of this in-group he self-identifies as a member of an "opposite" out-group. As such the troll utilizes passive-aggressive tactics to accentuate the subtle yet substantial differences between the two. Of course, this is a manufactured fracas. Two interest groups with overlapping needs need not become oppositional. Mustard users are not at war with ketchup users at the condiment bar. Both have similar and yet distinct interests. They each get what they need and move on. Sadly, our troll would rather point out these differences ad nauseum than fix his own burger.

Because the troll desires attention and he seeks negative attention rather than positive, it defeats our purpose to respond to his negativity in any way. ever. Any response only reinforces the negative attention seeking behavior and it fuels still more of the same. So regardless of where any of us stand on the issues at Penn State, one conclusion is clear. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

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#406420 - 08/10/12 04:58 PM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Actually, I've got the correct answer to it all right here in this linked article:

THIS guy has it knocked!

THE Correct Perspective
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#406444 - 08/11/12 12:06 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1401
Loc: kansas
scottyg,

while i don't agree with brian's views on this subject, he isn't a troll...

he's passionate like everyone else here... i think his passion is misguided in this issue, but i don't think it's right to take him down like that...

he's a survivor, like everyone else here...

i have no issue if you want to debate the topic... i do take issue with attacking him....

debate the issue... not the person...
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#406450 - 08/11/12 01:19 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
While I commend obi for his valiant effort to remain inclusive and create harmony I fear he may not have been paying attention.

Survivors who contribute in a positive way to the MS forum post their own questions / concerns or respond in earnest to others who're in need. That is what is so remarkable about our community.

Others are here to be disruptive and have little more to offer than to focus on single subject issues with incredibly divisive and insensitive postings like this:

Sandusky Trial and ASA

or this:

Paterno Defense

or this

Paterno Statue

or this

Paterno Family Again

While I've reached out both publicly and privately to assuage this unfounded level of animosity directed at fellow members of this community it has gone nowhere. An attempt has been made to debate the issue and the answer has come back that there will be no debate. Only steadfast dogmatism and a contnued onslaught of inflamatory statements.

Fine. MS doesn't limit survivors speech. Obi has his considered opinion, as do I. My aim was simply to encourage the community to resist the urge to respond to remarks that encite a strong reaction. I am not naming names, I encourage everyone to ignore any contributor who posts inflamatory statements that are clearly aimed at divisiveness. Let the Mods and admns deal with policing these matters. I simply say bygones.

To make clear, I think "misguided passion" is a rather generous description of the tactics we're debating here. I really don't see any reaching out or attempts to heal with these posts. There is no meaningful exchange of ideas, as you've done obi, in your chastening me not to single out individuals with an unflattering label. These "debates" are talk-only regurgitations of myopic logic. There is no consideration of viewpoints or the feelings of others. There is only digging-in. When the goal is to be deeply insulted and to express that level of indignation time and time again within an otherwise innocent community we have something beyond missguided passion. We have classic trolling. And as much as I admire the inclusiveness that you embody with your post and that we all share within this community, I am not so diplomatic as to enable a known instigator to escape comment.

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Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
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#406465 - 08/11/12 08:27 AM Re: Paterno's Family Is At It AGAIN [Re: tshodson]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1401
Loc: kansas
scottyg,

with all due respect, i went back through the threads you provided links for and read every one of brian's posts.

I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH HIS THOUGHTS!



however, in all of his posts, not a single one of them did he attack any other user. he debated the issues. he debated the thoughts... he didn't attack other users....

i'll even admit that i got snarky in some of my replies towards his thoughts.. even in this thread i posted a very sarcastic reply to what i thought about the former players having the wins taken away.

he's passionate about his thoughts on the subject and does have the right to express them. even though they are misguided.

but then i completely understand where you are coming from, scottyg. i take issue with a particular user on this board that has an agenda to take swipes at survivors here on ms. had many battles with this user and i have attacked that user for attacking survivors. yes, it is wrong of me to do so. yes, i should follow proper procedure and just report the posts/user to the mods to take care of. yes, i let my emotions take over and went after this user.

i agree with a point that you did make in that we probably shouldn't respond to his posts, if all it's going to do is create heated debates...

i also know that this discussion we're having is not on topic with the thread. for that i apologize to you and to everyone else in this thread. we can take it to pm's if you wish to discuss this further.
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