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#405252 - 07/29/12 10:57 PM When To Tell
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally For The Good Men Project



When to Tell Her
July 13, 2012
Robert Brown


You don’t just blurt something like this out. I mean jeez...what I’ve been doing for 20 years has been working! Why would I just throw a great-big wrench into the gears? It would be the death of the best relationship of my life!

I love this woman beyond words! Imagine that! We met at Business School instead of a freakin BAR! I’ve waited so long to find the right person. I prayed fervently to meet someone like her. Everything is perfect about her. She’s simply the most amazing person I’ve ever met.

Everything is perfect about HER.

Lots of things are completely f**ked about ME!

No one can handle news like that. Its one of those things that was never supposed to happen! But I was a wimpy-boy, a colossal loser...at complete freak to allow that to happen without being reported, stopped, avenged...allowed to ever happen to begin with. I simply must never let her know. As planned, I’ll take it to the grave.

Oh God! Will she figure it out? Will she decipher from years of intimate behavior that I was raped over and over again by older boys? Will she figure-out that I was forced to provide oral gratification for them...that I can’t get these f**king images out of my head?

She wonders why I cry for weeks about a murdered or stolen child. She does not “get” why I sit-up all night drinking about 10-nights per year.

If she finds-out, she’ll believe everything conventional wisdom says about guys like me: “Destined to molest!” “Certainly Gay!” “Musta liked it if he didn’t report it.”

Your first 1000 orgasms were with older boys? WTF? C U L8R Rob!

The Sex and Couples’ Therapists figured it out in about 15 minutes; each and every one of them. They would then look me square in the face and say “Rob...man...you show ALL the signs of childhood sexual abuse...and its the only explanation for all of this!”

No, no, no NO! NOT ME! You’re wrong. I’m fine. If I tell her, I’ll lose everything! I’ll lose everything!

In 2007, I told her. 18-years into a marriage that still makes me cry today from the perfect love I had for her, I told her.

I lost everything. I lost her.

So the meat of debate: When do you tell your future spouse or significant-other that you were sexually abused as a child? Should you even have a spouse or significant-other?
_________________________
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#405308 - 07/30/12 03:28 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 07:43 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#405314 - 07/30/12 05:21 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
I have thought often about all of this - and what Geoff wrote... over and over and over again.

My husband's disclosure only allowed me insight into his family or origin issues. I didn't think less of him because of his disclosure.

He has treated me poorly (and I let him). He has endangered my life (and I let him). THAT will be why my marriage ends. Did he make those poor decisions because he is damaged by neglect and abuse? Probably. Will I blame his disclosure for the end of our marriage? No. In fact, had he disclosed BEFORE he hurt me, he would have had unqualified support and love. Now, I am a little afraid of him. Could he attribute my fear to his disclosure? Sure. Would he be right? Nope

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#405319 - 07/30/12 06:17 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
In 2007, I told her. 18-years into a marriage that still makes me cry today from the perfect love I had for her, I told her.

I lost everything. I lost her.


Like so many survivors, you have a nightmare of a story, Rob. You suffered horrific abuse- abuse no child should have to endure. Your abuse left you fractured, but you were, by outward appearances, getting along okay with your job, your wife, your children, your families, your church, etc. On the outside, it all looked grand.

As a wife who thought her married life was grand, I congratulate you on acheiving the same. Unfortunately, after ten years of marriage, a nuclear bomb went off directly in front of my house, and I got a snoutful of bitter reality. As it turns out, my/our life was FAR from being the life I thought it to be! My husband, who'd carefully and skillfully hid so much of himself from me, was FAR from the man I knew him to be. And I was confronted in the mirror by a face that looked like mine had looked just hours prior, but now looked twenty years older.

I'd had NO clue the abuse my husband had suffered. I'd had NO clue the secrets he carried, nor the double life he'd been leading. I have to wonder if, like me, your wife woke one morning married to the man she knew better than anyone else did, only to see the sun set on a day during which she learned she knew nothing about that man afterall.

Truly, from the supporter's perspective, your abuse is NOT the game changer! The survivor too often can't grasp it, but we get it: You were abused! You were raped! You were traumatized! You were a kid! You lacked the maturity and experience to process any of it! WE GET IT! I've yet to find a partner of a survivor who's decided to leave the relationship because of the spouse's childhood abuse. HOWEVER, I've seen enough and am living it myself to know that it's the stuff a survivor does as an adult that can, and sometimes becomes the game changer.

I don't know your situation, so I'll speak only from my own. If my husband would not have finally been honest about his past he'd never have come to MS, nor would he have gotten a counselor. Without real effort made to learn about his trauma, and without the humility required to look at the damage done to his self and his life, and without the continued effort to recover, we would be O-V-E-R. Our marriage wouldn't be over because he was so horribly abused and taken advantage of as a child and an adolescent; our marriage would be over because the boy in the man's body would have decided he wouldn't/couldn't become a thriver. And marriage must be between two healthy adults. It can't work any other way.

So, what happened between 2007 and the divorce, Rob? What didn't happen between 2007 and the divorce? Have you recognized areas of recovery that you were not able to embrace back then? Most importantly, what has happened between the divore and today? What do you need to do to put your abuse in the correct and proper perspective? What more needs to be tended to in order for you to leave behind Rob the survivor and become Rob the thriver? I think your soulmate is out there looking for you, and I'm sure you want to be at your very best when you two meet!

Get out of the harbor, Rob. The only people who are there with you are your abusers. Turn your back on them. Set sail for your healthy fulfilling future! Someday, your kids are going to grab ahold of adulthood and thrive because you will have taught them how to sail through the most dangerous of waters!

((((Robbie))))
herowannabe

P.S. You should tell a prospective spouse as soon as you identify her as a prospective spouse. And YES, you should be part of a relationship, if that's what you want! You'll know you're healthy enough for a relationship if you can not only tell her about your abuse, BUT can tell her about your RECOVERY! You can do this, Rob!
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#405320 - 07/30/12 06:21 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Esposa]
herowannabe Offline
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Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
SPOT ON, Esposa!!! Spot-freaking-ON!
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#405332 - 07/30/12 08:41 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Esposa and Hero's reaction to this topic is wonderful insight Rob, I hope this clarity, that spouses may react sympathetically to a disclosure, but are excruciatingly hurt when the survivor acts out (non abusively)sexually or abuses physically, sexually or emotionally. That a survivor can bring a sexually transmitted disease to his supporter is absolutely true and immediately clear and present danger. I appreciate their articulate expressions in their replies and wish them much recovery in their relationships.

Quote:
So the meat of debate: When do you tell your future spouse or significant-other that you were sexually abused as a child? Should you even have a spouse or significant-other


In your question I perceive a leaning towards a misconception. If I may, whether or not the survivor has the cognitive ability to make others aware that he was abused, and much more so himself. The shame and embarrassment of sexual abuse is so intimate, so personal that it creates dissociation and incredulity in the life of the survivor. What labels sexual abuse in the mind of a victim? Was he experimenting? Was it simply a lifestyle choice at that time? The experts are still coming around to those perspectives and it is important to get the information to children, young men and adults so that an informed decision can be made in that traumatic, chaotic part of life.

Once that decision has been made, then there is the matter of the disclosure. Someone with whom a sexually abused survivor wishes to re-create, and that is important, to re-create feelings of longing, attraction, trust, unity and sexual feelings with he first must disclose that he was sexually abused. I feel it apropos to point out to potential partners of survivors that the survivor may so desire the ideal of love and compassion of another being interested in them that sex and it's accouterments would be pushed down in his awareness as it had been since the abuse. He may expect that once the relationship has been developed, he will simply be expected to "perform". Sex is an act, at one time it was demanded without possibility of exclusion, now it is a release of the abuse controls or simply a part of a relationship equal to and maybe even as repulsive as menial fluid procurement that happens in relationships. All of these feelings, traits and structure had already happened in his life. He may have once longed for the attention of his abuser, attracted to the sexual feelings his body was arbitrarily producing, trusting the abuse as it may have been his authority, an older peer or a dominant personality, unified in a perceived exclusive relationship with the abuser, and sexual abuse, of necessity, includes manipulation and/or penetration of sexual organs. The idea of disclosing previous sexual abuse depends on so many variables, and is inherently full of potholes as to make it almost impossible. The juxtaposition of this would be to ask a potential partner if there were any events in their lives that they feel would negatively, even fatally impact a relationship. My hearty congratulations to those who have, and to those who say they have produced every situation up front prior to an emotional response that could potentially harm a survivor in a relationship. But that is where the whole thing may fall down, an emotional response is usually first, imho.

Relationships are about growth and potential. A game changer could be simple contention, children, maturity, divided interests, not spending enough time, unrealized pursuits... are these to be a topic of a potential relationship? Absolutely! But within these, coupled with the above considerations, when would a survivor input about that, and how would a supporter respond? Would the partner be turned away? Would they be at the emotional point where that would be reasoned or rationally removed as a former event, would it emotionally draw the partner into the relationship. Imagine a survivor who was accused of disclosing the abuse to illicit a nurturing response!

So then we come the "meat of debate": When do you tell your future spouse or significant-other that you were sexually abused as a child? The answer is, of course, as soon as you are capable. It is impossible to tell of something you are not aware of, nor of something which is felt to be resolved, nor something that is felt to be insignificant in the present life. When, and this is important, when the light of understanding becomes evident, then the survivor MUST disclose, abuse is done in secret, recovery is done out loud. Disclosure is for a survivor can be much different and for much different reasons than the hearing of it is to a supporter. A survivor discloses for support, in order to hear himself say those words, in order to begin a process of individuality, or healing frozen traits in his personality, to overcome stressful trauma, to heal. Survivors are terrified of abandonment, rejection and destruction, the very contenders of disclosure. The ability to overcome these is within the cope of recovery, not at it's inception, and certainly it may not be within surviving.

This brings us to the next segment: Should you even have a spouse or significant-other? The answer is yes. The question is when. Ideally, during the time in recovery when the rage and unfairness, the hatred and revulsion of our actions and those of the abusers/enablers are minimized to thoughtful, sad responses.

Without the ability to access healthy, positive recovery however, I feel this is discussion is academic. Every time a child, in this case a male child is sexually abused, the health care necessary to assist becomes increasingly sparse.

The question is more problematic than simply asking "when" and "if", I am afraid. The answer is more complex than "shoulds" and accountability. No disrespect intended, dear survivors and supporters, but please be careful with our ideals, they are not meant to be merciful nor forgiving. Instead a gradual coming together for ourselves and future readers will allow for the greatest healing and compassion, for both parties.


Humbly Yours,
Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#405343 - 07/30/12 09:57 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
...but looking at this for 35 years now, all I've seen is that "disclosure" and "acceptance" are in fact mutually exclusive elements of life. I honestly have seen no exceptions to this rule, baring the fine filtering naturally provided by the membership of MS.


Edited by Robbie Brown (07/30/12 09:58 PM)
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#405344 - 07/30/12 10:57 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
...but looking at this for 35 years now, all I've seen is that "disclosure" and "acceptance" are in fact mutually exclusive elements of life. I honestly have seen no exceptions to this rule, baring the fine filtering naturally provided by the membership of MS.


Trigger: Not true Rob. I can name 5 women on this board who know our husbands first orgasms were w older boys/men, who are used to having to sexually gratify others. My husband was anally penetrated repeatedly by age 10. Why am I being so graphic ? Because I need you Rob to completely understand that these facts that my husband has shared w me are limited but horrific. And I'm. Still. Here. When he told me he was abused it was BEFORE he started treatment. I NEVER thought less of him. Not for one millisecond. Leaving him for that? That is nutso. I inately understood and was sympathetic to why he couldnt tell me for 7 years. Now fast forward 3 years and add some acting out. Guess who wanted the hell out of their marriage. This girl! 3 years of deception, 4 women, porn binges--that made me want to leave! But guess what? Still here. Working my ass off in individual therapy and couples therapy. Not doing it for myself or my health. It would be so much easier to leave but I'm still here. I don't know which part of your story your wife couldn't grasp but just know that all women aren't the same.

And you should tell when you know you are serious about the person. If she can't handle it, better to know early and good riddance.

Ps: as usual love my ladies hero and esposa responses. Spot on for me as well.
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#405345 - 07/30/12 10:58 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
What you may have experienced first hand versus the first hand telling of disclosure with acceptance that you have personally read about here in MS Rob.., Rob, please pay attention, it happens.

Don't let one situation become the rule versus the exception.

It happens. It will happen again, it may even happen to you.

S
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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#405403 - 07/31/12 02:28 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Robbie your story is one that I will never forget, I want to hug and squeeze that little boy, who carried a knife to protect himself. I admire the spirit and strength which carried a beautiful little boy through a brutal time. I am just sorry my husband didn't trust me enough to tell me. I had to find he was acting out. I know why he did it and we are still together. We are both working hard. You deserve for someone to love you, all of you, for you, I am sorry your wife let fear get the best of her. I have had my moments. No one is perfect or normal, everyone has their problems. Don't give up and she wasn't/isn't as perfect as you think.

I am with GoodHope the disclosure isn't going to be the reason I leave. Actually for me I don't think the acting out will be the reason I leave, it will be because his behavior hasn't changed. I hope it has but that's not enough. The jury is still out.

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#405470 - 08/01/12 02:51 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
I don’t know if she left over the disclosure.

But I can tell you that if she really did, she was not the person you thought. Your happy relationship was based not so much on a lie but was not based on the whole truth, perhaps part of it. Anyone who would leave you because you were bi- or because you were abused… you may be better off without them.


Edited by Napoleon (08/01/12 02:52 AM)

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#405535 - 08/01/12 03:12 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Ok, here goes....I wholeheartedly agree with everything Esposa, Hero, Hope and Gretta have said.

I think your thinking is way off. Let me tell you this.....had my husband NOT disclosed his CSA I wWOULD have left. It would have been his silence that would have caused me to leave. Had he not told me about his CSA, the only conclusion i would have been able to make is that he is gay, or a sociopath or just plain creepy.
So there you have it. The opposite is true. I would not have let the door hit me in the ass on the way out had he not diisclosed. Ask Hero, Esposa, Gretta or Hope.....I am pretty sure they would agree to a certain extent.

The behaviours caused by CSA are very scary. The realization that I am living with someone who risked his life, my life and was doing unspeakable things that I am still 2 yrs later freaked out about. Because of disclosure and coming on MS, I can understand. I don't know if I forgive and forget, but at least I haVE some type of explanation for the insantiy.

Just my opinion but whenever I hear you talk on here about this, I want to ask what happened? I know your wife used to be on here and was very supportive so what changed?

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#405539 - 08/01/12 03:23 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 244
Loc: us
For me as not just a wife but a fellow csa survivor, I feel more afraid of my husbands silence then anything he could reveal about his past or csa. Him shutting down and trying to pretend like we a like everybody else it what hurts. Him not believing I love him or really want him is what hurts.

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#405548 - 08/01/12 04:42 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 244
Loc: us
To robbie. Thanks you so much for your story. I feel like my husband might have a lot of those debates in his head. He won't tell me anything specific. One night he had one of his drunken episodes. Maybe is was wrong of me but I just stared asking questions about what happene to him . He freaked out heand curled up in ball on the floor and started to sobb like a I have never seen. I just put my arms around him a cried too. Told him I love him and I'm so so sorry. He went to couseling for awhile but now has dropped out and is pushing away from me. I feel like the only reason I'm handling things like I am is because I was abused when I was little. I got help and I healed and want him to do the same. I think the emotion for partners of victims that don't understand abuse could be a lot harder. Maybe your wife just couldn't process it. Just like you couldn't for so long. Maybe she is afraid. But I've have learned that all we have is ourselves. You haven't lost that. I haven't either. I hope that you can find your way. Don't give up its hell but its worth it

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#405560 - 08/01/12 06:41 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
Knowing what Lucy has been through, I know for a FACT that what she says is an understatement about what she would think of her husband WITHOUT the context of CSA. I would think similarly of mine - A MANIAC, AN ATTEMPTED MURDERER, AND ABUSER. Thank god for the CSA context and all of you.

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#405568 - 08/01/12 08:33 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Esposa, my friend, I am so grateful to call you my friend and to have a witness to this life of mine. I don't think people who aren't in our situations could possible understand or even believe the insanity we have seen. If they knew about it, they may lock us wives up in the looney bin.

As for disclosure....I think if I was a man going to disclose, it may be helpful to hand your loved one some information to read like percentages, myths and such and possibly you could explain some of the struggles that come along with csa. Even as intelligent as I am I couldn't possibly comprehend what all this ould mean in my life.

For example...if my husband would have told me he was a sex addict before marriage (yeah, right!) I would have thought that meant he would be bugging me all day every day. Even though I had heard about alot of the stuff that my husbnd ended up doing, I had no idea why people did that or that it had anything to do with sex addiction or childhood abuse. They were just creepy strange men in my eyes. Now I see them as being the wounded men that they are.

I think it would be helpful to know the struggles you have too. If he would have told me he had an incident of abuse when he was young I would not have been able to guess of the ramifications it had in his life or would have in mine.

I guess that would be asking too much apparently......

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#405583 - 08/01/12 11:01 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Exactly, Lucy!

However, if we'd have known of the abuse, we would have not ignored the "weird, little things" along the way. We'd have given those things more thought, would have done some research, asked some questions and likely would have insisted on counseling. Perhaps, just maybe, we'd have been proactive and would have been able to nip in the bud much of the misery???

No one can make up this stuff, and no one can imagine they'd have to deal with such things in their very own happy world.




Edited by herowannabe (08/06/12 01:07 AM)
Edit Reason: Blah, Blah, Blah. Who cares...!
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#405609 - 08/02/12 03:49 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
How are you Rob? Did you find relief in the shares here? Did you find hope? Please let us know how you are doing fellow survivor, keep letting yourself know you are worthy of love, positive support and a healthy relationship. If you are too hurt, then let those who care about you hold you up until you are able to walk again.

Resolve this issue, correct your heart, then find the joy you hear so much about, it is searching for you!

Sam
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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#405793 - 08/04/12 02:17 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
There's the loss of my "intended path" that still burns. The pain of the "actual path" that distorted my life and there's the loss of a blood-diamond.

Any one of those three elements of dread and torture are "enough." That's where I am.

While making my Thorozine-shuffle through life, I'm trying to end as much evil as possible. My town meeting on Child-Safety-Zones flew like a led-zeppelin. The town Board just stared at my passionate plea and flapping evidence charts in slack-jawed disinterest. Not one word was spoken when I stepped-down. They went on for an hour about who would install the fence surrounding a vacant lot.

So here I stand with all my sht...all my elements of dread...not even today's parents care enough to head-off their own kids' demise. Not ONE cared enough to show-up at the town meeting.

But hey! The cable still works. The SUV still runs. The kids remain peachy-keen.

--The New Prairie Home Companion
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#405954 - 08/06/12 01:03 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Rob-

I'm sorry for the lackluster participation you got from people who most certainly should enthusiatically embrace your teaching and suggestions. It is so frustrating and downright depressing to hold in your hands a "cure", but not have anyone willing to take what you freely offer.

I guess it's human nature to gloss over things we assume would never, could never become our reality. I don't know how to change that, but I know you are trying your best. And your best is all you can do.

Know that you make a difference, and you will reap the fruits of your labor! I believe in that and I absolutely believe in YOU.

Sending Love-
herowannabe

P.S. I'm sorry that my post above sunk into me, me, me! It was a dark day best spent in a dark room by myself. I am sorry.


Edited by herowannabe (08/06/12 01:06 AM)
Edit Reason: P.S. Added
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#405981 - 08/06/12 09:31 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
Quote:
So the meat of debate: When do you tell your future spouse or significant-other that you were sexually abused as a child?....


I used to think I knew the EXACT day that H SHOULD have told me. The more I know about CSA, the more mature my understanding of it is - the less I know about when he SHOULD have told me.

When SHOULD he have told me? When he was emotionally the best capable to say it AND when I was emotionally the best capable of hearing it. I don't know when those two golden roads SHOULD have intersected.

I used to think I knew, but, I have no idea NOW of what was best to do THEN. I don't think there was a BEST time, a PERFECT time, a wonderfully EASY time. I don't think it exists.

He did the best he could to say it - I did the best I could to hear it. I think that is the same story for a lot of people. It is what it is.

Quote:
Your first 1000 orgasms were with older boys? WTF? C U L8R Rob!


It is intersting to me that H may be concerned about this. Honestly, I never really thought much about it.

I had to come back and edit my post for this.....I honestly never even thought this may be an issue for H. Is it for most of the guys here? It seems logical that it would be but I am just blown away that I never even thought about it......and God knows I over think most things! smile

For me, the fact he had physical reactions to being abused, or how/or where he was abused, is like......100 universes away from what he and I share.

Quote:
Should you even have a spouse or significant-other?


Yes. There is no debate there.




Edited by sugarbaby (08/06/12 10:00 AM)

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#405994 - 08/06/12 10:25 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Quote:
He did the best he could to say it - I did the best I could to hear it. I think that is the same story for a lot of people. It is what it is.


Yes indeed sugarbaby, so simple, yet so wise.

Deeply appreciated,
Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#405995 - 08/06/12 10:34 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1290
Loc: kansas
agreed...
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

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#405999 - 08/06/12 12:04 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
I agree with what is said about the details of the abuse - and feeling like it was so irrelevant to our relationship. I don't feel like his disclosure or the details are anything other than something that we can share - and bind us together in understanding and compassion.

What I wish I had known was how he was feeling, how he felt out of control, how he felt angry, how he wanted to act out, numb. Those things would have been useful for me.

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#406036 - 08/06/12 07:36 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
Wow Robbie. This came up in our last session together with our therapist. My husband said, I never should have told her. This never would have happened. Meaning our marriage being over. We both looked at him like he lost his mind. Of course he should have told me.
If he hadn't told me, he would still be prisoner. HE IS FREE!
Our marriage didn't die because he told me. Our marriage died because he didn't/wouldn't do the work to save it. HE REFUSED. HE STONEWALLED. He felt controlled. He didn't want it more than the GHOSTS. He didn't chose me.
He didn't chose us.
Of course you should tell. Reach out for your destiny. Don't be a hostage. LEAP. JUMP. GO!. RUN! TELL!
_________________________
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I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

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#406038 - 08/06/12 07:38 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
and as my husband has told me from the beginning "you gave me my soul back", I say "no, baby you took your soul back. I didn't have it to begin with. I was just loving it."
_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#406041 - 08/06/12 08:02 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Oh Annie, my heart goes out to you. My wife and I have recently began to reach the structural issues, and our marriage, our commitment feels so shaky at times, it is as if we continue, we could lose each other.

You are so clear about what he needs, what he has accomplished, you get "the supporter star of the year award"(That was spoke in earnest, just shoot me if it sucks as bad as it sounded in my head). You also are stable enough to be able to demand limits be respected and when they cannot be, to respect yourself.

I am truly amazed at your balance, dear supporter.

Sam
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#406175 - 08/08/12 12:18 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
Robbie,
You can't blame people for wanting to not look at this situation or bury their heads in the sand. This is heinous, its hideous, it is evil. No one wants to look at this unless they are forced to look at it. And most times they are forced to look because it in in their living room. The only thing we can do is show up. Bring it up. Be unafraid and face it down. When they look away, say watch out!

WE ARE THE WATCHDOGS FOR THE LITTLE ONE NEXT DOOR. We know, we talk about it, we are affected by it. We have a personal responsibility and a moral obligation to sound the alarm AND be heard.

Acceptance is the name of the game. You have your cross, I have mine. No amount of complaining will make it lighter it will only made the hill steeper.

Go back to work Robbie. You know what you have to do. You've been doing it all along.

I've been watching you for nearly 1 year. I see your cycle. You're tired Robbie. And when you get tired you threaten to quit. You announce you are quitting and then you sign off, say F this I'm done. You go under ground for a while but you never stay there. This fight is your mission. Your life's mission. When the burden and realization of all that it has cost you come to the fore front of your mind you get discouraged and tired.

You need to take breaks. You need to give yourself a break. Yes, this is not what you had in mind. You lost your family unit (as it was). Your wife was a huge disappointment. (and she really was). Well I'm pretty pissed too. This was sooo not my fairy tale. We made plans.. God had something else in mind.

But you know what? If you have saved 1 kid. Just one little boy or girl... was this worth it.?

Because I WOULD GIVE MY LIFE FOR A CHILD. NOT JUST MY OWN. ANY CHILD.
and so did you. and so you will continue to do. And save as many marriages, families, survivors and wives as you possibly can.
_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#406232 - 08/08/12 08:32 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I can't even get the zombies in my small town to look at protection measures. NO ONE in this child-rich, affluent town gives a flying fk even with all the sex-offender history we have.

NO ONE CARES! What happened to instinctual child protection?

Take a look if you wish: chestercitizens.com
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#406274 - 08/09/12 08:11 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
learning2remember Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 248
Loc: Europe
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm having a rough day and it is related, it feels like it is related, to the question, "When to tell."

I thought yesterday was a normal or better than normal day. I worked, my wife worked. The kids are out of town. At night we walked to some freinds' house to pick up something that was mine, and on the was there and the way back we talked about everyday things, and even held hands.

In bed, I thought we might get intimate, but then she asked me about the 5 love languages. (I'm not up for explaining that whole thing here. If you don't know it, it's not hard to find on Google.) She asked me what I thought the order was for her. That is: among the languages of gifts, acts of kindness, words, quality time and touch, which did I think was most important for her, and 2nd most important. That felt like a really complicated question to me. (Sorry ladies, this is one area where I'm just an emotionally stupid man. It really felt like a hard question and a trap.) She said she would then tell me what she thought the priority was for me. I wasn't in the mood for this kind of game. (Confession: I didn't know the right answer and knew if I got it wrong it would not be good.) I think I tried, and of course I got it wrong. She told me that touch is the most important thing to her, and obviously, she said, it is not important at all to me. (I don't think this is true, but I really don't know anything.)

She continued:

On a scale of 1-10, she told me my passion level was -5.

She said whenever she touches me, I freak out. (Her words. This made me said, cause I really thought I had gotten better. All that work for nothing.)

She said I NEVER let her put anything in my mouth, like feeding me. (I used to think this was normal. I mean, I SO don't want anybody to put a spoonful of ice cream or whatever in my mouth I'll turn my head and back away. It's just a reflex I thought everbody shared. I'm not even interested in making it a goal to change this. I don't want anyone to do that. FULL STOP.)

I felt like she was fishing for me to confess that all of these things are about CSA. I've told her about the CSA, so I'm not hiding that from her, and I know that I am less than she deserves, but I just couldn't explain the background again in bed last night.

When I first told her about Mom touching me, she just flat out told me I was mistaken, that it wasn't true.

I told her about my brother, and memories I have of his genitals in my face. She said I could go on this website or to therapy or support groups or whatever, but only on the condition that I not come home one day and tell her I was gay.

Reading this post, it sounds like I'm setting her up. I'm not trying to get anyone against her.

All I'm saying is, if the qeustion is when to tell, I don't know. There is no guarantee it will go well, and, I find, it can be used against me any time after that.
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#406284 - 08/09/12 09:37 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
Quote:
I can't even get the zombies in my small town to look at protection measures. NO ONE in this child-rich, affluent town gives a flying fk even with all the sex-offender history we have.


My 2 cents: Walk softly Robbie....and carry a big stick. Sometimes gov't doesn't change because it is the right thing to do. Sometimes, gov't changes because they are in a corner.

Give them their arguement. Hand them the proof they need to make the changes you want. You do the leg work. Site other town ordinances in the state or nearby states. You can find them online at twp./county web sites usually under zoning. Use examples from those places. Maybe it just starts with school zones.....and later expands. Your local officials will not be as passionate about this issue as you are so you'll need to hold back a bit and work slowly. You will find a way, but, it may be slow and steady winning that race.

I wouldn't berate them much. They can become very useful if they don't stonewall you. Even if they are not useful on paper or in public, behind the scenes they can make changes that work for you and your goal.

There was a case in Newton NJ where an offender lived with his mother in what became a restricted zone around a school. I THINK he fought it and lost - then had to move. I'm not sure since I didn't keep up with the case. Start with research like that in the big town around you. No town wants to be a haven for criminals because they lack the enforcement of the areas around them.

I'm in a small (aka micro!) sized town and recently had an issue with a neighbor. On paper the town disagreed with the evidence of my arguement HOWEVER the problem miraculously resolved after they talked with the neighbor. What they officially said on paper and what they said to him - were two different things.

I keep editing this - sorry. Here is the case: http://sentencing.nj.gov/downloads/pdf/articles/2007/Apr2007/story02.pdf

If this is the end of it they referred it to the state - most likely that is where you would need to go as well. Look at other states in the N. East for laws. The same principle applies: no state wants to be a haven for criminals because they lack the laws of surrounding states.

and I edit again! Here is something that attacks the issue from a different angle. It is a lawyer web site but the Act he is siting might be food for thought for you.

http://www.njlawattorney.com/Megans-Law-PC/New-Jersey-Sex-Offender-Monitoring-Act-Lawyer.shtml

And from NH: http://forum.nhliberty.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=c653d3bf0ca16901cb5d8c8656575925&topic=79.0



Edited by sugarbaby (08/09/12 10:13 AM)

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#406421 - 08/10/12 05:12 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Thanks sugarbaby.

Just for some background. The Board's behavior has been reprehensible for over a year now. I've tried the nice way for a full year and been treated like sht at each and every step.

The situation is very very dangerous at this point, as the huge park in town is literally 99% forest and trails. The crime there has gone through the roof. Two weeks ago it was 7 arson fires in ONE DAY. A live home invasion (with the people home) happened a month ago.

Zillions of kids go to recreation programs there, and some have to wait for parents, some wander-off, some stand too close to the woods and can dissapear in the blink of an eye.

After one solid year of really bad sandbagging my efforts, I've had to take off the gloves. I'm doing all I can to disgrace them, embarrass them in their arrogance and hold them fully accountable for the Gary Britton case. He was a very very agressive baby-rapist and outrageous pornographer...but he was also a prominent figure and a friend to the Board.

I'm done playing nice. At this point in time, I'd be a like a passive whimp to not go to war on their arse. The web-site has a ton of traffic. Today, I bought space in the local paper with nothing in the space but 'Chestercitizens.com"

If, in the meantime, a child is even approached at the park, I'm going to the Governors Counsil to have the board removed. (Yes, thats a provision in New Hampster)
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#406422 - 08/10/12 05:20 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Oh...and I even did the research for them. All I asked for was "an examination or the possibility of adoption." People actually laughed that I could soft-step that much....cuz ah....you know....I'm possibly known as a volatile jerk when I git on this topic.
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#406466 - 08/11/12 08:37 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Robbie: I am glad you are fighting the good fight. People are so puritanical and ill-informed on the subject that they need to be made uncomfortable about it until such time that they get passed their own mental garbage and start to actually LISTEN!

But with regards to how you started this topic: there is no good time to tell. I knew before I ever got serious with my husband. I knew he had "some issues" related to his CSA (mostly depression and cutting), it didn't stop me from falling madly in love with him and wanting to build a life with him. What I didn't know, because he himself wasn't even aware, was how all those issues would manifest down the road (porn, infidelity, etc.)

I look around myself and I cannot believe this is my life now. I am hurt, angry, and sad nearly every day. I have cried more in the last 9 months than I have in my entire life. But I am also still full of love and compassion for my husband. I would not have stayed with him all these years if I had not known about his CSA.

I just wish now that I had done something earlier to educate myself about it all. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...

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#406467 - 08/11/12 08:57 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Quote:
But with regards to how you started this topic: there is no good time to tell.

(((Valkyrie)))

I think a combination of advocacy and awareness within the family circle, schools and government would help support a young one in not only avoiding and reporting abuse he or she may be subjected to but also to create awareness in a potential mate as to what they may struggle with within the coupling.

Keep up the good work Rob. Please remember this is a marathon, not a horse race. You are a fine charger fellow survivor.
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#406469 - 08/11/12 10:59 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Valkyrie]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Valkyrie
I look around myself and I cannot believe this is my life now. I am hurt, angry, and sad nearly every day. I have cried more in the last 9 months than I have in my entire life.


As you already know, we see this constantly in this forum. For me, F&F is the toughest place to tread. In my own weird way, its not just the raw pain that I see and feel; Its beaten and soul-crushed little girls. I don't see adult women. Rather, I see your core-being. I see optimistic girls who found their prince and then assigned their best years to him.

I'm not assigning fault here. Not at all. What I see is greatly like rolling-up on an accident scene as I did during my two years with the police. A family (Dad, Mom, 3-kid and a dog) all battered and bleeding, strewn-about the road, wondering what happened to them, how did this happen, what will become of them?

Then I see the drunk driver who ALWAYS is oblivious to the carnage he created...complaining that his "Corvette is ruined...someone is gonna pay to get this fixed, and its not me! Get that guy's insurance info for me!"

We can't undue what the self-centered drunk-driver did. To do so would require that we go back so much further than his trip to the bar. We'd have to venture all the way back to where his selfishness flourished and directed his life and character into a speeding freight train on his own set of tracks.

I see the carnage. There's only so much I can do to help. And I'm so crushed by all of it.

[EDIT] Comparing the drunk driver to the perps.


Edited by Robbie Brown (08/11/12 03:03 PM)
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#406480 - 08/11/12 03:27 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
As you already know, we see this constantly in this forum. For me, F&F is the toughest place to tread. In my own weird way, its not just the raw pain that I see and feel; Its beaten and soul-crushed little girls. I don't see adult women. Rather, I see your core-being. I see optimistic girls who found their prince and then assigned their best years to him.


WOW.

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#406500 - 08/11/12 06:46 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Thank you, Rob. A lot of the time we're made out to be stupid, selfish, cruel whiners. That's devastating when you're trying to ignore the knife in your back while you help the one who put it there.
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#406609 - 08/12/12 08:41 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
(((Rob))) and (((Hero)))

I understand how we may be perceived like girls looking for princes, but I assure you, I was an adult with a career and a mortgage when I met my husband. I wasn't looking for a prince to save me or take me away. I wanted a friend, a partner, a lover...

My husband was and is all those things. His abuse has never lessened him in my eyes. He did things to bang up this marriage something awful, but I am still here. Right now sucks and is sometimes unbearably hard, but I have faith that my/our best years are still ahead of us. Yes, right now, my soul has been crushed, but I have a sledgehammer and some duct tape and I am doing my damndest to put myself back together.

But I don't really know how to help my husband on his journey. And I am also prepared that the marriage may not make it. That does not mean that I won't continue to love and support my husband. Our marriage may fail, but I would still do everything in power to support him in becoming a whole and healthy person and I would never consider that a waste of my life.

My husband's biggest fear is how to "make it up" to me after all the hurt his CSA has caused. I told him, that if he really and truly wants to make it up to me then he needed to do the work to put himself back together. And I mean that. He has to stop beating himself up over what has happened and put his energy into making himself a whole person. If he does that, no matter what happens to this marriage, I will consider us square.

Rob, I worry you are beating yourself up in the same way. A thousand hugs are being sent your way.

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#406624 - 08/12/12 11:20 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Valkyrie]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Valkyrie

My husband's biggest fear is how to "make it up" to me after all the hurt his CSA has caused. I told him, that if he really and truly wants to make it up to me then he needed to do the work to put himself back together. And I mean that. He has to stop beating himself up over what has happened and put his energy into making himself a whole person. If he does that, no matter what happens to this marriage, I will consider us square.

Rob, I worry you are beating yourself up in the same way. A thousand hugs are being sent your way.


Contrary to what any lawyer, judge or thinking person would do, I wrote to my wife (makes me too upset to call her "ex") and apologized for each and everything possible that may have hurt her. I threw myself at her feet of hopeful mercy. I knew that position well as I used it throughout my childhood with a nightmare-violent father and perps who knew no limits to anything on, in, with my body and soul.

I mean it when I say that "I don't feel human nor among humankind." Though they won't let me in the club, I feel I ought not injure any one of them or cause them any setback with my existence. I don't see it as "beating myself up." I see it as a near cast-system that is fully alive in this world, if only observed by mortals. God pays it no-mind, but the people I love, know and have never known do adhere to it.

And tonight I remember....tonight I remember...oh dear God, tonight I remember. I considered my childhood the night before our wedding. I actually thought I had overcome the worst soul-infection ever. I actually felt strong and victorious. What a blithering fool I was...a self-centered dried lump of rat dung. My closest brother...not the rat. The rat dung.

Anyway, she never wrote back...never said a word. That's not her fault.
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#406700 - 08/13/12 05:37 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
Quote:
For me, F&F is the toughest place to tread.


For me too. Sometimes I want to vent and if I read to much I find something new to be annoyed about. smile


Quote:
Anyway, she never wrote back...never said a word. That's not her fault.


When my H first started therapy he wrote me letters. At the time I was to PO'd to reply without being nasty so I never did respond to them. He asked me at one point to write a letter for his DWI class about how his accident effected me. It was supposed to be 1 paragraph and it was 4 pages where I just ripped him to shreds. He was embarrassed to hand it in but he did. I wasn't proud of that so afterwards I wouldn't communicate much until I came to a place where I could be constructive/supportive instead of just verbally beating up on the crime victim.

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#406721 - 08/13/12 08:46 PM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I think God might be the only one I don't make feel sick.
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#406781 - 08/14/12 09:08 AM Re: When To Tell [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
You don't make me feel sick Robbie. You make me THINK.

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