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#40498 - 02/04/03 01:58 PM Michael Jackson
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
The interview with Jackson recorded for British TV was shown here last night and will apparently be shown in the US today - Tuesday 11 Feb. Dont know any more than that.

It's a remarkable interview, and without giving anything away I think his nickname of Wacko Jacko is well deserved.
The guy has deep problems.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40499 - 02/04/03 08:04 PM Re: Michael Jackson
gg1978 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/30/01
Posts: 14
I didn't see the interview, being in the USA.. But this web page came to mine.... ;\) ;\) ;\)

HERE


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#40500 - 02/04/03 10:06 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Hey GG thanks for the link.

That was very enlightening...

Crazy pun intended. \:o \:D

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#40501 - 02/05/03 01:10 AM Re: Michael Jackson
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
GG that was in poor taste, funny but in poor tasts. Thanks GG \:\)


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#40502 - 02/05/03 01:03 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Very funny, I enjoyed that. \:D

On a serious not though, are the US police on his case again ?

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40503 - 02/05/03 05:56 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Mark S Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 130
Loc: England
GG

That was SOOOOOOO funny. I've just got in from college, it was a bit heavy going so some light relief was much appreaciated.

Mark ;\)


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#40504 - 02/07/03 02:47 AM Re: Michael Jackson
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
I watched the Michael Jackson interview this evening (Feb 6th.) on 20/20. The words macabre,
ghoulish, mental, sad, pathetic, tragic, dangerous, manic, damaged, scary all come to mind. That boy is in serious trouble, and so are all the children associated with him. The image he portrayed in the interview and his denials and protestations are sadly so typical of both a victim and unfortunately, a perpetrator. I am so depressed for having watched it. Peace, Andrew


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#40505 - 02/07/03 08:14 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Andrew, while I didn't watch the interview, I've followed Michael Jackson enuf to agree with you.

If I didn't laugh I'd cry...

Nothin funny about what he is doubtless doing to those kids...

Victor


_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#40506 - 02/07/03 12:38 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Andrew
How I agree with you, he's so messed up he's a danger to himself and those around him, especially his own kids. But he's lived for so long in a completely alien world he doesn't see what's happeneing to him.

If that documentary had been about some unknown guy from a social housing project or trailer park the police would have taken him away before the final credits rolled.

The press are still going on about it here days after it was shown and most of the opinion is that he needs to be seperated from all kids and investigated thouroughly.
But there are many out there saying "you just don't understand, he's a caring person".
Sorry, but I think I understand too much.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40507 - 02/07/03 02:21 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Mark S Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 130
Loc: England
I see that the Authorities aren't even going to look into the matter. Whilst living in the U.K. I read that they would need a victim to come forward for them to act. The prosecutor claimed that as far as he knew it wasn't a crime to sleep in the same bed as a child. Maybe not, but is sleeping all he is doing? How do you know unless you investigate?

Well one of his Victims did come forward. It may have been a few years ago, but they came forward never the less. The problem they were bought off.

I felt sorry for Jackson, but is it right that the authorities don't look into this matter? After all he intends to adopt MANY more children.

Mark


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#40508 - 02/07/03 02:53 PM Re: Michael Jackson
nethos_1 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/04/02
Posts: 9
Loc: colorado
In his defense \:\( ! Do any of you see that he could be "one of us" Do you think that maybe he could see some of the things he does as being okay because of all the things he's been through? Does anybody know all about him in the first place? I don't think so. I think I might have a lot in common with Michael with me being so strange \:\( ..... I see a lot of things about him that even I would consider strange but I do understand where he comes from. I have to be "unorthadoxed" with a great deal of my treatment and my survival non of which is perpetrating and I don't believe he does either. I don't believe he would hurt a kid much less a fly without crippling remorse. You can see his heart through all the pain, how else would he be so "wierd" as some of us are "wierd"? You can obviously see how much of a kid he is himself still, something was taken away from him also. You judge me when judging him because in the same sense I feel the need for protection and none of you know how vulnerable I might be, I've had friends "pertect" me my being in the same room also because I HAVE ISSUES TOO! Besides.... don't you think those kids' parents way back when, would have rather had Michaels conviction rather than the money????


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#40509 - 02/07/03 07:23 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Nethos
yes, I can see many similarities between Jacksons problems and ours. His childhood was a mess, his father was violent and demanding and he had unimaginable wealth as a kid. Nothing was normal at all for him. So I agree that he's the way he is now due to the way he grew up.

His problem however is that he doesn't recognise that he's in a mess, we do - you obviously do to come here as well.
He's living as a child in amongst people who wont, for whatever reasons, tell him the stark truth. And he hasn't recognised it for himself.

For all his craziness it's still hard not to feel some pity and understanding for him. I hope this exposure will be a turning point for him. But he'll have to make an effort to return to the real world first.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40510 - 02/07/03 08:23 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Mark S Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 130
Loc: England
I agree with Dave and at the end of the day if all he is guilty of is being a survivor, their can be no harm in the justice system having a look at the situation.

Nethos, you mention that his last victims parents would have surely have wanted a conviction rather than settling for money, but that assumes a great deal about that persons parents. There are many parents who (sadly) sell their children into prostitution.

I'm not suggesting that he be sentenced on the outcome of an interview, but maybe a little further look into his actions might have been appropriate.

Mark


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#40511 - 02/08/03 01:04 PM Re: Michael Jackson
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I didn't get to see the interview but have read the accounts of it in the news media. I really feel for Michael Jackson although I think he needs to stop running in life and take a good long look at himself.

The part that really bothers me greatly is how he likes to sleep with young boys. If it was his own children that were JUST sleeping in a bed with him much like many children do from time to time.. that is one thing. But I've got a feeling that it is much more than that. I know he's got money to basically buy freedom but it angers me that it is not being investigated.

My two cents worth....

And hoping that this world will wake up and begin to treat our children with the respect they deserve, not what adults feel they have to give out of obligation.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#40512 - 02/09/03 12:10 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
To my knowledge Michael Jackson has never said he was sexually abused. Still he apparently was abused physically & verbally and in that sense is a survivor.

Or to be more accurate, from my perspective, he is a victim. It doesn't seem to me MJ has moved to survivor yet. He is still using his childhood abuse as an excuse for, well, seemingly everything, including sexually abusing children, which I think sleeping with children is, even if he isn't doing anything else.

That he is still excusing his abusive behavior, in spite of all the money & fame he has (which just goes to show these aren't everything!), is what aggravates me about MJ.

I suffered plenty of abuse myself, grew up poor, sure never have or will get rich or famous (don't especially care to either), and I haven't abused my children or anybody else's.

Doesn't make me better than him; that's not the issue. I just find his arrogance irritating & his abusiveness frightening & very triggering.

He tries to make it sound so nice & innocent, so loving & nurturing. Reminds me way too damned much of my mother...

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#40513 - 02/10/03 01:11 AM Re: Michael Jackson
jaketk Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 49
Loc: illinois
Okay, I think we have a problem then. I let my cousin sleep next to me sometimes, and my neighbor's son has fallen asleep with a few times. So, that makes me a pedophile, right? Granted, I haven't been accused of assaulting any child, nor do I change my face every year, or make my kids wear masks, or dangle my infant from a balcony, but I'm not making the connection. It's sleep. Since when did sleeping next to someone become a crime?

I'm not sure whether Jackson has done anything sexual to any child. I didn't get that from him, or the boy they interviewed, though it was being radiated by the reporter. I find it odd that he wants to sleep with a child, not that he does. But I think it has more to do with him trying to reclaim what he never had growing up than it does with sex or harm. That he doesn't acknowledge his problem isn't unusual, nor surprising.

Obviously he's using his money to avoid the authorities, and his actions are definitely strange. That nothing has been done to him when it would have with a less known person says more about the system, and the power of money.

jake


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#40514 - 02/10/03 08:52 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
RIGHT ON. I think he is trying to recapture something he lost. I do think he is wierd and that his money protects him. As power protects others. Remeber we are the great unwashed, pay the freight and suffer the consequences. I do believe that sleep is sleep. When children are terrified of something they seek strength from adults who care for them. In my case my daughter received obscene phone calls at the age of 7 from an ex hospital employee who had access to patient records. He picked on the name TANYA. For months Tanya had to sleep between my wife and I and she was terrified when the phone rang. She did recover and went to sleep in a sleeping bag next to our bed in about 3 months. She is now a well adjusted, and if I do say so, a drop dead gorgeous woman in 4th year university and sitll remembers the comfort we gave her.

_________________________
Mikey

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#40515 - 02/10/03 11:01 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Jake, Mike:

What the two of you did/do is quite different, as you yourselves pointed out, from what Michael Jackson did & does.

At least one boy he slept with did say MJ sexually abused him. This was the case MJ settled out of court financially in 1993.

Yes, I do think Michael is looking for his lost childhood. Apparently he was abused, tho he's never said anything about being abused sexually. He was pushed out of childhood into the early adulthood of fame & wealth & power. But I still think he's abusing that, using it as an excuse to abuse children.

It just doesn't seem that the way for an adult to find their childhood is in sleeping with "other" children...

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#40516 - 02/10/03 10:01 PM Re: Michael Jackson
jaketk Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 49
Loc: illinois
this is a link to the deposition of the 13 yr old boy that accused jackson of abuse.

fair warning, it's not easy to read.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjdec1.html

jake


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#40517 - 02/11/03 06:27 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Jake,
Thanks for posting that link of the declaration. After reading it I don't see how anyone can believe that MJ is not a child sexual abuser. Some of that boy's story was a little like mine. Tough to read. Thanks, Jess.


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#40518 - 02/11/03 11:19 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Ditto Jess!

Reminds me too damned much of when I was raped...

Victor


_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#40519 - 02/11/03 01:37 PM Re: Michael Jackson
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
I'm just glad that kid got out of there before he gat f***ed.

_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

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#40520 - 02/11/03 01:49 PM Re: Michael Jackson
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Money talks .............

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#40521 - 02/12/03 09:55 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Mark S Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 130
Loc: England
Nothing More needs to be said. He needs investigating!!!!!!!!

Mark


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#40522 - 02/13/03 06:55 AM Re: Michael Jackson
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
Ones abusers view of Michael Jackson

Views on Michael Jackson
Author: JK, Feb/12/2003 23:03:57

Michael Jackson - what an extraordinary show. But the truly disturbing part of it wasn't Michael at all. Clearly a very sad man, at best failing to cope with a ruined childhood and the negative aspects of fame, but a TV show is never going to reveal the true man - a huge talent and a musical giant, whatever else. No - the frightening thing for me was the predatory desire of Martin Bashir - on behalf of the media and, of course, us - to reveal the worst. We WANTED Jackson to be discovered as a freak and a pervert. We HATED the possibility that he might be an innocent. That was the most upsetting aspect. This century has witnessed the turning against innocence by civilization. Although Michael is not the best champion for the philosophy of true love and affection, and clearly has never managed to experience it himself, his ideal world, of adults actually caring for children, has been destroyed. As Bashir kept nagging away - it's not NORMAL for a 44 year old man to indulge in friendship with children. He pushed his suspicions into the face of Jackson's 12 year old friend. Two clear messages. We now see sexuality in everything - and are disappointed if it's not exposed. And, as society, we now regard sexuality as wrong and evil, no matter what we may pretend. The total destruction of innocence. That was the most frightening revelation of all. King (FF 8782) HMP ELMLEY, SHEERNESS, KENT, ME12 4AY 4/2/03

Check out the Jonathan King threads for continual coverage of an abusers PR campaign from his prison cell.

And all that was left was hope. :p

Archnut


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#40523 - 02/13/03 07:50 AM Re: Michael Jackson
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
I didn't see the Jackson interview in it's entirety, I'm just not that interested in him. I have seen parts of it here and there. In what I have seen, I felt a great pang of sympathy for him.

This man should not be around children, let alone rasing them. For his own good. But, sadly I don't think that there is going to be anyone willing to tell or make him change his ways.

I think it's clear that he has very poor judgement in regards to children, but I'm not going to speculate about his reasons for sleeping with other peoples kids. What ever his reasons it shows a real lack of forethought, why open your self up like that. I don't know if his kids are in danger of long term harm or not, but I think he is.

Society's first concern must be the health and welfare of his or any children. But I for one think we need to show a little compassion for this man, unless there is clear evidence showing him to be a perp.


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