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#403953 - 07/18/12 08:36 AM Moments of Anger - How to Manage?
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Today's a very rough day in terms of realizing my needs aren't being met. Long story short, I got my hopes up based on an agreement my P mad and then forgot about. It became hard to just forget about it and move on. It feels like the massive snowball of hurt is rearing its head again. I'm quite tired of being mad and hurt right now, but I can't shake this. Things escalated, an argument ensued, and all the hurt and pain I've felt has come rushing back. I don't want to feel thus way any more. I know this really isn't about me, but it's hard not to take it personally.

Do some CSA survivors distort and manipulate the situation so they don't have to deal with the guilt of hurting anyone? I feel like I'm a bit crazy in my thinking right now, yet I know this isn't all me. It can't be.

Thoughts anyone???

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#403960 - 07/18/12 10:32 AM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Being held emotional hostage. That's the best was I'd describe it right now. :-/

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#403978 - 07/18/12 04:20 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
oh, ya. We're ALL distorted in our thinking. That's the disease of sexual abuse in a nutshell, deeply distorted thinking. That's why therapy is so important. It allows us to ID and dismantle those lies we so firmly believe. In the meantime we're so busy feeling worthless and beating ourselves up inside we can't see the harm we're causing. But c'mon Haps. In your short time here you've read enough posts to realize what we're gonna say:

Articulate clear boudaries, make the consequences of hurtful behavior explicit your partner, stick to your commitment to demand respect and stand up for your own sanity. No one deserves to be treated like a doormat. Being supportive does not include absorbing abuse.

Remember: it's not all about him. Your feelings are just as important as anyone else's. If you devalue yourself and your needs then you will fall into a dysfunctional relationship that's governed by the destructive cycles of the abuse victim. That helps no one. You're not crazy. You're an agent of sanity within a crazy circumstance, so the juxtaposition makes you look like the one who's nuts.

Feel free to PM me if you wish.

-Scott
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#403996 - 07/18/12 07:26 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Scott - thanks for the reply. Agent of sanity... I like that. Especially in a rough day like today.

I realize that I'm trying to change him. Repeating over and over where I'm coming from HOPING that something will click with him. I guess this is one of those "steps back" days in my own recovery.

Probably hanging my hat on hope a bit too heavily here, but is there any chance he heard what I said? I shared some stuff about how my T and I discussed his attitude and actions. He asked what else she said, and I let him know a few other things about how I'm not insane - just staying in the line of fire, manipulation, and misplaced anger/blame. Then.... Nothing. Crickets. I must have run through my slogans 900 times in the silence. Then, he'll say "I don't understand why... Yada yada." At least I thought I explained it. :-/

So, more Al-Anon/Codependent work, or is there a darn good book that can help me not take this personally?

Yep... Tough slide back today. Tomorrow is a fresh day, though, and I'm looking forward to it!

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#403997 - 07/18/12 07:51 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
The first book that I always recommend to everyone who asks is Geek Love by Katherine Dunn
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#404002 - 07/18/12 08:22 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Hmmm... A bit different than what I expected by the description. Why the recommendation? smile

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#404005 - 07/18/12 08:34 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
It's no good to dwell on these issues we discuss here 24/7. I know I certainly over-think and obsess. It's good to get out of your head and focus on someone else's freakish problems once in a while. It's a book about accepting and imbracing our quirks and fnding acceptance in a judgemental world and quietly sacrificing for the good of the family. Plus it really weird, so I like that.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

Top
#404027 - 07/18/12 10:52 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
Haps, for me the struggle is where to put the anger. I phrase it like that because it feels like a hot ball of air or something inside of me. I don't know where to put it. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know how to make it go away. It sucks the life out of me. I think if I did something physical like swim or run, it might shrink, but it is hard for me to do those things without lots of planning ahead.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#404036 - 07/19/12 12:20 AM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 675
Loc: NJ
Our anger sucks...

Try seeking the actual source of the anger. Sometimes that helps me. Sometimes I am angry at myself - or sometimes I am angry about the manipulation more than the situation. I posted this article before but it was eye opening for me.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evol...essive-behavior

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#404052 - 07/19/12 06:22 AM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Do some CSA survivors distort and manipulate the situation so they don't have to deal with the guilt of hurting anyone? I feel like I'm a bit crazy in my thinking right now, yet I know this isn't all me. It can't be.

Thoughts anyone???

Well hell yes we do, Our lives revolve around manipulation. We blame everything and everyone besides ourselves.
Does this sound familiar?
I told you not to do this, now I am doing X and it is all your fault, why don't you just listen?

The second place you are wrong is
"I know this really isn't about me, but it's hard not to take it personally."
This is about you, if you cant be happy then your life will be a mess. You cannot control his feelings an pain but, you can control yours. Deal with the things you can control and leave the things you cant.
Imagine if he has a rant, and you listen and dont take it personally. When he is done, you calmly turn around and say "feel better now" and walk away. You have given him the ability to rant but don't ever take it personally, it is not your fault, it is not your problem.
Sounds dumb to say it is not your problem because you live with him, but it is not your fault that he doesnt want to deal with his past, it is not your fault that he is always angry.
Learn to live your life in conjunction with his, not because of his. Live life on life's terms FOR YOURSELF, go out because you want to go out, invite friends around because you want to. If he doesnt want to get involved in the joy of living, then you do it in spite of him, carry on, live life and enjoy.
YOU ARE NOT A DOORMAT OR HIS WHIPPING POST. It is not your fault tht this had happened to him.

Hope you draw strength and courage from this.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#404059 - 07/19/12 09:42 AM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Scotty - Dwelling is hard not to do, but I can say today I'm doing less of it that before. I need to,celebrate that fact a bit more. smile. Practicing not dwelling is painful, but it's the only way I'm going to learn, no?

Good - Swimming! Yes - love it! Helped quite a bit.

Esposa - the link didn't work. Can u repost? Seems interesting from the title. wink

Martin - Keeping myself sane and happy is key. I hear ya. Hard to do when I forgot how. :-/ Back to practicing, tho, no?

Everyone - I've seen posts on passive aggressive behavior here. Im not claiming perfect here, let me say that. I'm learning to be much more direct in my needs. Any advice about 1) recognizing this behavior and 2) setting boundaries around it? I fear if I say "Unless we can both be more honest, upfront, and clear I can't have a conversation right now", we would seldom talk.

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#404076 - 07/19/12 01:23 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: Haps
I'm not claiming perfect here, let me say that. I'm learning to be much more direct in my needs. Any advice about 1) recognizing this behavior and 2) setting boundaries around it? I fear if I say "Unless we can both be more honest, upfront, and clear I can't have a conversation right now", we would seldom talk.


We talk on the other side about triggers: an event or place or sound or smell or subject matter or touch that sets us off into a wild roller-coaster ride of emotion -none good. I lived for a long time enduring waves of fear and anxiety from triggers I was unaware existed for me. I was unhappy and upset all the time because I was unknowigly getting triggered by stuff all around me. Yet I did not examine why this was... I just suffered through it thinking this is how my life is going to be. When I had the chance to step back and examine those situations it suddenly became clear to me. So, dear Haps, I cautioned you not to dwell. But I do encourage you to step away from a situation and examine the part you played as an objective observer. You may start to recognize direct causal relationships. As in when he does A then I do B. Or, when I do X then he goes Y. Seeing these unhealthy patterns of behavior is one key step. You can't fix what you don't accept, right?

A second and perhaps more important skill is the component of emotional self-awareness. This has helped me to diffuse knock-down drags outs in the past. Strong emotions seem to come over us like a tidal wave and we're swept up in the heated moment. But with a deeper mindfulness we can feel the first twitches of anger and frustration and indignation from their relatively mild beginnings. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THAT. A sensitivity to your own building emotions will guide you toward a healthier manner in which to express them. When you're mindful of those early signs then you can address them appropriately before a torrent of strong emotion sweeps you out of control.

Be warned, this stuff takes practice. Lots and lots, everyday, all the time. I learned about these techniques in an anger management class that lasted 10 weeks. (You may find it helpful to enroll in a short class presenting these skills in a more formal way than I do here.) However, once you begin to recognize those specific patterns that trigger angry or passive aggressive responses AND you can address those emotions before they spill over, then you will be highly effective at communicating your needs. Oh, one more thing: this is actually my main point.

I fear if I say "Unless we can both be more honest, upfront, and clear I can't have a conversation right now", we would seldom talk.

It may be hard to take, but I think that seldom talking is ok right now. You deserve healthy, non-abusive communication. Every partner does, regardless of circumstance. Asserting your demand for healthy, non-abusive communication is raising the bottom on him. I feel that a few productive conversations with real breakthroughs in communication are far better that lots and lots of pointless conversations that only re-inforce the negative patterns. Refer to the Mountainous Buck quote below.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#404175 - 07/20/12 09:28 AM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Scotty,

I never thought of triggers in terms that apply to me. Put in that context, there are plenty of them, though. The smell of our house, feet stomping on floors, a door slamming, an harsh tone of voice. Hypervigenent? Yep! Most of these are overspill from my childhood for sure. Triggering fears of abandonment and impending confrontation. Oye. Huge realization here right now. Of course I'd find someone who trips these -- it's comfortable.

Do you have any examples of context you can share to keep my thinking going on this? Also, given my CSA survivor doesn't share this language, would it be wise to talk this way with him? How can I broach the subject?

This is awesome. It really points to my own recovery and how I can actually be happy whether he's in active recovery mode or not. I want this feeling to stick!

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#404209 - 07/20/12 05:33 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Happy to help you gain insights, Haps. But I'm not sure what you're asking me to contribute. Please give me a clearer idea what you mean by "examples of context you can share."
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

Top
#404228 - 07/20/12 09:19 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 675
Loc: NJ

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#404235 - 07/20/12 09:46 PM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Thanks, esposa!

Scotty - I'm looking for an example on the casual relationship front to spark my thinking. I'm way on board with trying to break my "tailing" him looking for resolution immediately. That just escalates quickly. What else u got?

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#404245 - 07/21/12 01:46 AM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Still unsure what sort of "examples on the casual relationship front," I can provide. Examples of what? No matter... I have some food for thought for you based on your inquiry about a dialogue and whether or not using the language of recovery is aprapos.

The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is a theory that I buy into based on my own experiences. I lean toward the strict view and feel that people who remain uneducated in these mental health matters have difficulty participating in a meanigful dialogue without a prior understanding of the terms and concepts. More likely, the terms we throw around here will only earn ridicule at home. Psycho-babble. So the trick is to introduce these concepts in anon-threatening way. I use the 1st person voice here to talk about myself when I;m actually instructing others what to do.

You might talk about yourself and the triggers you have realized about yourself. You might share an insight about the distorted thinking that you've had about something which turned out to be wrong. You cannot pour all these terms out all at once but you can gauge his willingness to discuss these kinds of topics by slowly disclosing intimate details about yourself.

You are right about healing: it's an idividual sport, not a team effort. As you heal and become a healthy, centered person I invite you to give him (and us!) progress reports. Pay close attention to reactions. Supportive people will be thrilled for you. Manipulators will resent your changes. BUT: you can and must find yourself alone. Whether or not your current partner is supportive of that endeavor will inform you if he's worth waiting for. over & out

-Scott
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

Top
#404254 - 07/21/12 09:16 AM Re: Moments of Anger - How to Manage? [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Scott - thanks again. I find this ver helpful for where I am right now, actually. It reminds me when I would try to change or control him through my sharing my knowledge. Having a strong psych background has helped and hurt. I know where to go and what to look for, but I haven't gained appreciation for the struggles involved in healthy change until I started on my own recovery. A recovery I was in denial about myself, and one which is only becoming more clear day by day. I need to sit back, relax, and enjoy this journey and afford him the same opportunity.

I have also found him stepping back when I share some of the deeper, emotional parts of things. I also have taken things very personally that he's done - the fleeing, passive aggressiveness, shutting down. Managing my urge to "solve this now!" not only hurts the relationship, but it's hurting me. I am only now learning to treat myself better. I need to stay my course and find outlets for the tough times that don't involve him. You're signature line nails this for me -- I can't keep doing the same thing over and over. It only hurts more!

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