Newest Members
susanhepp, Breathe, georgetwo, frozen45, lilac
12291 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
adam319 (46), Bellemaman (36), Bob G. (58), S D Witwicky (38)
Who's Online
4 registered (randombreeze, ethereo222, 2 invisible), 22 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12291 Members
73 Forums
63227 Topics
442139 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Topic Options
#403880 - 07/17/12 06:32 AM Research is needed
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Research is needed
I have been thinking about this for a long time now and the other day someone sent me a message that galvanised my thoughts and my desire to continue in this direction.
Besides helping men that need the support, it is important to start a study into the prevalence and impact that Sexual Assault has on men. Why?
Well the other day I was told of a man that lost custody of his children and may only visit them under supervision because of a MYTH, Read more
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#403926 - 07/17/12 09:15 PM Re: Research is needed [Re: whome]
chambers Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 118
Loc: VA
I think you're right, they need to research it. We already have enough stigma attached to being survivors of sexual abuse, don't need people assuming we're going to be abusers too. I know of the myth and it's a big reason I won't tell a lot of people of my abuse.

Top
#403943 - 07/18/12 04:09 AM Re: Research is needed [Re: whome]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
Initially I had the same feelings as you. I hated the myth. But then I started to track down other victims. Of the 7 victims at least two are pedophiles a third is a possible pedophile. I have done extensive research as part of my own healing, and could write a paper on this. To sum it up: While being abused will not make you a perpetrator it is a risk factor.

You say we need studies... many have been done. The effects of the abuse on our brain are significant, but can be seen on brain scans. Exactly what happens mentally varies a lot from one victim to the next, but there are patterns. The biggest factors are the severity of the abuse, length of the abuse, number of perpetrators, state of the child before the abuse, and the support/ treatment they receive following the abuse.

On your blog you talk about being afraid to touch your daughter (when your wifes not around) , this is not uncommon… By far and large most people who are abused will never abuse anyone because they know what it feels like. Many abuse victims will have issues even having contact with children because they are unsure of where the boundaries are.

Personally I hate the myth, but unfortunately its not entirely a myth, a few victims do become perpetrators. It is not uncommon for an abused child to mimic the behavior. Some then become lifelong perpetrators, not only abusing other children while still a child but this behavior continues all the way into adulthood. Some will be too young to know otherwise, and will simply “learn” the behavior. Others will escape much of the trauma by “learning” it as an acceptable behavior.

About half of convicted child abusers confirm they were abused as children. This does not include people who conceal the abuse or simply don’t remember so, over half of convicted sexual abusers were sexually abused as children. Your chances of becoming an abuser are 3 times greater if you were abused. These statistics make the myth/stigma very hard to dispel, because it is not entirely a myth… and has some basis in fact.
_________________________
“Your only limit within reason, is the one that you set up in your own mind.” Napoleon Hill, The Law of Success, 1925.

Top
#403946 - 07/18/12 05:33 AM Re: Research is needed [Re: whome]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
Where exactly do you come up with the 3x greater figure? While it is true that some do but most don't. Those who do end up with these feelings need a therapeutic outlet to discuss them however according to some sources there are circumstances such as having children or working with children that require reporting to child welfare authorities. We do need research and statistics. I do however believe that there is some data out there that some doctors who treat offenders probably have but more needs to be done
_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


Top
#403948 - 07/18/12 07:02 AM Re: Research is needed [Re: whome]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Napoleon

I agree with all you say, but we cant make sweeping statements as there are no published papers on actual numbers.
So if you ask a 100 convicted paedophiles if they were abused as children and they all say yes, that means that 100% of them were affected by their past, but you cant say that the 10000 people that were abused and have not reported it are guilty of the same crime.
This does however give us a number, we can say that of the 10000 people that have been abused 10% will go on to perpetrate.

The Generalization is in fact based on a MYTH. I have asked for any published studies, and the only one available is the study done in 1996, and this study in my opinion is flawed as it asked therapists to give a number based on the people they were treating.

If I were to walk into a hospital and ask how many sick people there are, I will get a number. I cant use this and then say that 75% of the entire population is sick, doesn't make any sense.
The same applies if I as a survivor have survivor friends, and ask them who was abused then I will get a higher number than normal.
The other thing we need is to find out what the classification of abuse is. If you as a child or pre-teen acted out what was done to you, is this abuse?
If you are 18 and are still abusing children, well then no argument there.

What we need is a study of X thousand random people. We ask these people who of them were abused, and if so, if they went on to perpetrate.
Now we start to get a number that can be used for court cases, now we get numbers that are based on FACT, not speculation or personal studies and research.

My biggest problem is that every one (myself included) can be classified as an expert on the sexual assault of men, but our experience is limited to the people that we talk to or know, and the things we read. If I go on the radio in my country and tell people something they are going to see it as fact, but I might be wrong.

This is the sort of information, Good or Bad, that we need to get out of this study. Knowledge is power they say, and I think that this knowledge will give us the power to stand up and defend ourselves, or the ability to prevent further damage to other children.

Thanks for the interest and the comments.
This is something that I am extremely interested in and already have two universities that have contacted me concerning the study.
What I really need is what do we have to research, what questions do we need and what is it that we as survivors would like the world to know about what we went through.

Heal well all
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#403973 - 07/18/12 02:50 PM Re: Research is needed [Re: whome]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
The 3 times as likely is something I extrapolated from: the fact that 1 in 6 men get abused while 1 in 2 convicted pedophiles were abused. The increase in risk is there even if “3 times as likely’ is not percise. While I created the three times as likely this is not some number I came up with out of a hat. The 1 in 6 is based on real studies and is well accepted. The 1 in 2 is based on different correlating studies done on inmates incarcerated for abuse.

The fact that 2 in 7 of the kids abused with me became pedophiles is based on statements and interviews with friends who knew the victims in the small town where we all grew up. One is convicted and on the registry, but there are also a lot of people who can name young children he abused in adolescence. The second had a bunch of legal problems with an underage girl but was never convicted, and has only had very young girlfriends all his life, he also is on a registry but not a public accessible one. The third is based on conversations and suspicions of his step mom, so this may be 3 in 7 became pedophiles. I speculate the high number of pedophiles in my victim group is because the abuse was so sever and at an age just prior to the age that sexual preferences normally develop. … It is rather shocking to get in touch victims and find perpetrators instead…

You are correct in saying that no studies quantify the increase in risk but it is absolutely a risk factor... Not a cause. As a victim that will be discriminated against this was/is hard to accept, but the difference in percentages between general population and convicted pedophiles is hard to dispute. I don’t know if I did the math correctly when is say 3 times as likely but wanted to quantify how large the increase in risk is. I agree that we should continue to study this so the full impact can be known.
_________________________
“Your only limit within reason, is the one that you set up in your own mind.” Napoleon Hill, The Law of Success, 1925.

Top
#403982 - 07/18/12 05:03 PM Re: Research is needed [Re: whome]
Dolphinboy Offline


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 39
Hi Martin
This a subject that is very close to home for me. I was abused as boy of 8 by my brother's friend, 13 at the time. My brother, 12 then, knew about this and carried on with the abuse, starting that same night. This continued almost daily for the next 4 years. My brother is now an ex-convict and pedophile. He was arrested and sent to prison at age 42. Because of our close relationship (as perceived from the outside), many people assumed that I must be part of this and knew about the abuse that was taking place. Just because he is my brother, I was equally treated with mistrust and disdain. A close family member would not allow me near her young children. I know that this friend of my brother had an influence on him from a young age. My brother's friend was just a disturbed kid who tortured animals and had sex with chickens. I was about 5 or 6 when I witnessed these very disturbing events. I believe that he was a victim of sexual abuse himself, but I have no evidence to prove this. Does the fact that he introduced my brother to sex (there was anal sex), mean that my brother was abused by his friend? He always claimed that he was never sexually abused as a child.
Shortly after my own abuse started, there was a point where I almost acted out with a younger boy, but this did not happen. I remember thinking at that stage that introducing my friend to sex, would be the right thing to do. But something stopped me, I don't know what it was. Maybe it was that even at that young age the comprehension of what is wrong and what is right, kicked in. Or maybe there was just never an opportunity for me to do it to the younger boy. Whatever the reason, my brother became a pedophile, but I never touched a younger child - not then, not later, NEVER.
So yes, more studies about the prevalence and impact of sexual abuse on men as children, certainly need to be done. But I have another question - how do we treat pedophiles that have been released from prison and must now live and function in society?
_________________________
When there are dolphins in the waves,
the sharks wont get to us.
I believed my dad that day
and became Dolphinboy,
my own protector.

Top
#404029 - 07/18/12 11:31 PM Re: Research is needed [Re: whome]
Anomalous Offline
Greeter Coordinator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 1341
Hi Guys,

Here is a post about The Abused Becoming Abusers.

This post has a link to the original research article from which that erroneous conclusion was drawn and another research article which dissects the original research and points out the flaws in both the original research and the inappropriate generalization of the conclusion. The analysis of the original research starts on page 4 and continues through page 6.

In short, the original research was done on males incarcerated for sexual offenses. Of that population it was found that many had been sexually abused. But that does not mean that the abuse caused those men to become abusers.

What was grossly inappropriate was generalizing that presumption of causation to an UNstudied population, namely NON-incarcerated sexually abused males. Those men had NEVER been studied as part of this research, yet the researcher chose to apply the faulty conclusion to them, a gross deviation of accepted protocol for research.

Since that study in 1979, ALL abused males have been tainted by that poor research and inappropriate application of a faulty conclusion.

While it may be true that a percentage of sexually abused males are also perpetrators, that is not true for the majority of sexually abused males. That myth has been accepted as "fact" by too many including judges and attorneys in custodial litigation. That myth has also been the primary reason why politicians saw fit NOT to put money or emphasis on treatment programs for males who had been sexually abused. The prevailing attitude was "why treat men who are only going to abuse?"

Unfortunately, the research which counteracts that myth has received little public attention compared to the original research. As a result, most people in society will tell you that sexually abused males will become abusers, even though they cannot tell you the genesis of that information. Sadly, most who hold that myth to be true, do not give a damn about the reality. They "know" they are "right" and do not want to hear factual evidence to the contrary.




Anomalous
_________________________
Acceptance on someone else's terms is worse than rejection.

Top


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.