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#403331 - 07/11/12 05:19 PM Dating a girl
DarkHadou Offline


Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 117
This is a question to guys who were sexually abused who dated a girl who was also sexually abused. How was it compared to other relationships and what should a person expect in this situation?

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#403333 - 07/11/12 05:38 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
In 1991 I was a college freshman and I met this somewhat hot blonde chick at summer orientation. She smoked like a chimney but other than that I was pretty into her. Dunno how it came up but we were having beers or whatever and she mentions she's been raped. That made a huge impact on me because I couldn't imagine disclosing like that and I was in awe of her. Orientation broke and I wouldn't see her till the Fall. Being alienated and reclusive I did nothing but obsess on her seemingly awesome superpower to unemotionally disclose.

I wanted to be with her in a naive little backwards puppy-dog kind of way. I'm 19 and I'd never had a girlfriend but I was sure she was going to be the 1st.

Well she treated me like shit and we were never together. Here I thought she was so evolved but actually she was a very negative person. Probably the rape soured her on men, but then again there were other dudes she did hang with.

My point is that a person's past can be an attraction. You share a commonality. But the real issue is whether or not that other person can be a healthy and positive influence on your life. And are you well enough to be a positive and healthy influence on them? I'm married now and my wife is not a sexual abuse survivor. But she as had her fair share of near-fatal experiences and agonizing pain. Both physical and mental. She's strong because she's been through those times. I don't think I'd be able to get along with someone who hadn't made it through some traumatizing event. But let me assure you there have been PLEN-T of time she's threatened to kick my sick ass to the curb. Why am I still around? I'm a good cook.


Edited by scottyg (07/11/12 05:44 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#403335 - 07/11/12 05:53 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
JoeUniverseHP Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 72
My first serious girlfriend came from a broken home, lived with verbal/mental abuse from her mother, no sexual abuse that I know about, she ultimately cheated on me a couple of times (nothing serious, kissed a guy when drunk...she was in retrospect a love addict, always needed the validation of being in a relationship).

Second serious girlfriend was probably covertly incested by her dad. She was alcoholic, drinking some wine for courage before work, etc, and also an active bulimic. She broke up with me probably because i had addressed her bulimia and had "gotten too close".

Third serious girlfriend/fiancee had a verbally abusive father who was very, very sick and abusive. She turned into a real control freak, hard to live with. In the end we just drifted apart.

The "trauma bond" is a good bond, but then you actually have to live together and interact after the euphoria and newness of the sexual compatibility wears off.

Now I think I would prefer either a "normal" girl (if there are any) or someone working a 12 step program...But even the 12 steppers, I wouldn't want to "shit where I eat"....

But I know some successful 12 step marriages, and some successful addict/normie marriages.

Wow, what a tangent! Hope that helps. In short, I dated trauma victims, not sexually abused that I know of (could have been but I didn't know about it). Actually, the bulimic was seduced by a much older coworker at about 17 years old...That is kind of abuse-y.

Good luck DarkHadou.

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#403336 - 07/11/12 05:57 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
JoeUniverseHP Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 72
When I was not yet that recovered, I imagined that the only girl I could date was one who was "as fucked up as me". Sick attracts sick.

Now that i am healthier, I am setting my gaze a little higher. That has to do with a greater self esteem and more recovery. I hear people in the rooms of SLAA talking about how they were attracted to the "low hanging fruit" before recovery, but now with more recovery, they date more evolved people. Yay.

I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there...


Edited by JoeUniverseHP (07/11/12 05:57 PM)

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#403337 - 07/11/12 06:17 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
DarkHadou Offline


Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 117
This is going to maybe sound strange but I wish that a girl was abused with me, that we experienced the same thing at the same time so we would have a strong emotional bond. That would mean she would of been abused from 5-12 so no matter how many friends or even if she gets popular she can't reject me, I will be part of her life forever, she can't reject me, I don't have female friends- never did in my life believe it or not and I'm almost 28, I don't have any friends now. She might end up turning into a girlfriend most likely, which is what I would want. I would trust her and she would know everything about me.

If a girl ever told me that she likes me the question that would come into my mind would be " Why" So many other guys you can choose from, I'm not good looking, I have social anxiety, my behavior is not that of a normal social person. So my conclusion would be that she must be lying to me. She must be lying and has a motive. Money? Most likely. Another motive? To embarrass me? I won't let it happen. Being seen with her in public or with her friends and family would be embarrassing to her. If I fall for the trap then I just put myself in a position I never been in before. I never been on a date, I never even had a female friend like I said. Now the sexual stuff. That's a problem. I want to be asked if it's okay to be touched. My mood changes every day, I'm mostly pissed off.

I will have to take precautions, maybe part of her plan is to get money by suing me? She might claim that I sexually assault her. This is kinda a paranoia I have, I guess you can call that, related to the abuse. I don't want to be blamed for anything sexual that I never did in the first place. I would need proof that she is lying. I will give an example. It's just made up but still. Let's say I'm at the library and it's about to close. A girl around my age needs a ride. I know the risks I'm taking. She can simply claim " he touched me" so I will audio record the entire conversation and evidence that SHE is LYING. That is what I think about dating.

I want a girl that is on my level. Socially- I have social anxiety, I was sexually abused.

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#403341 - 07/11/12 07:09 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Well. That's a stark picture of pain and dysfunction and, unfortunately, I totally get it. I hate crowds. Claustrophobic, huge inferiority complex, hate to be touched... I think I've seen your neighborhood before.

The ideal relationship you're describing sounds more like a subservient prisoner [I will be part of her life forever, she can't reject me] than a real girlfriend. It's ok I get that too. I have deep rejection issue, mama never cared and daddy was a robot. Mostly what I do is push people away and reject them before they can (inevitably) reject me. It's a nifty self-fulfilling prophecy.

Let me reiterate that having a relationship with an abuse survivor does not guarantee compatibility. Far from it. These unresolved issues you're going through will prevent you from having the healthy, loving relationships you need, want and deserve.

I hate the sentence "I was sexually abused." No, you were not sexually abused (passive language with focus on victim not the monster who is responsible). A sexual predator(s) repeatedly abused you as a child. (focus is on the criminal and the unspeakable act.) For me being here on Male Survivor means shedding that victim mentality (I was...) and re-defining myself to the world as a strong survivor. That is what I encourage you to do before you begin any relationships -except beginning a relationship with a therapist.

As I said elsewhere, we are not easy people to live with. But I will list some of the reasons why our partners stay. We are caring and empathetic and sensitive and creative and conscientious and kind and helpful and deep down inside all of us here are wonderful people. Sometimes we just gotta do a lot of digging and heavy lifting to get that guy out.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#403350 - 07/11/12 08:24 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
chambers Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 118
Loc: VA
I can see where you are coming from and relate to it. According to statistics aren't 1 in 3 women sexually assaulted? I dated a girl who disclosed she was raped, it did initially make me feel closer to her. She and I both had issues that made it a bad fit in the end. I don't think you need to date someone who has been sexually abused to be able to relate to them.

The best thing to do is focus on your recovery and then slowly start dating once you feel ready.

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#403355 - 07/11/12 09:01 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
DarkHadou Offline


Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 117
women don't really want to date men who were sexually abuse, only a few wouldn't mind, I don't want to be seen as weak and I don't want to have sex with her knowing I had sex with my dad, it's only fair to have both who were abused, that's the only way I would really feel comfortable


Edited by DarkHadou (07/11/12 09:01 PM)

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#403363 - 07/11/12 11:31 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
All the relationships I've had with women, it turns out they were also abused. I found out either when I disclosed to them, or after our relationship ended.

I've often wondered if wounded attracted wounded or if us survivors were the only ones left in the singles pool... but my experience is that while it makes sense on one level that female survivors would understand us male survivors, the opposite seems to be true -- and everything ends in tears, at least for me.

Here's a quick breakdown:

Alex -- met her freshman year of college. She's awesome but off somehow, treats sex as a commodity. We dated when I moved to NYC after college, but neither of us were in a good place psychologically (I was going to the old-men gay bar and she couldn't eat a meal in front of me). We broke up and her last note to me was a card taped to my apartment door that read, "I love you and I hate you." OK!

Miriam -- ex-girlfriend of a close friend of mine (so bad news to begin with) but she was the first person I told that I was molested. She gave me the strength to find my first T, but then pulled away from me, and I had a complete emotional breakdown. Later she told me that she too had been raped as a girl by a neighbor man, and that I had done "nothing wrong" when we were together -- small consolation after ripping my heart out.

Jennifer -- was my "pal" in grad school, she led me on but it never went anywhere. Then I saw her leading other guys on in the same routine, and called her out on it at a party. She left in tears, and then I was the bad guy. Turns out her brother abused her. Now she's a TV personality and is married to a career military man, so maybe out of my league all along.

Victoria -- Older than I by 5 years, and so I got hit by her biological clock. She wanted a baby and I didn't want to give it to her. She was also raped by her brother. I used my CSA as a reason to not have sex with her because I knew she wanted a baby and she turned her nose up at my hometown and my family. I could have called her out on being a snob, but instead used the CSA as the reason to get out of a messier argument.

That was nearly six years ago and I haven't had a meaningful relationship with a woman since.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#403426 - 07/12/12 05:08 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
Robert1000 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 336
Hey DH,

That's an interesting question you pose. Here's something to keep in mind, one in four women has been sexually abused in her life. So there's a pretty good chance, when you meet a woman, that she has something in common with you, abuse-wise.

Here's a thought: Maybe it's more accurate to say that you have something in common with women in general. Women in our culture are often objectified... viewed and treated as sexual objects. And however you define "abuse," being objectified is part of it. That's actually one of the most confusing and painful things for me.

It's weird to think that in the fourth grade I was a sexual object for someone. (I actually typed "something" just a moment ago, because sometimes when I visualize that time I think of a dick as a piece of wood and myself as some kind of lifeless humanoid a million miles away from my own consciousness.) I tried to make sense of what happened to me by making all these strange connections, which I now call "magical thinking."

Like, if I did something specific, I could keep myself safe. And I also objectified myself to a certain extent, and objectified other people. There were periods of my life when I pretty much fucked anyone and everything. I have pretty much no natural sexual boundaries left. (That's a frightening thought to me!)

Anyway, I have always been very supportive of women (and men, I guess) who have sexual abuse in their history. I guess it was my way of trying to be supportive of myself, back when I was hiding the fact that I had been abused. (Who am I kidding? The only place outside a therapy office and away from my wife that I have ever been open about my history is right here!) But I hadn't dealt with my own issues, so I've in many cases been a selfish and self-involved boyfriend/partner.

My point is that abuse/objectification will fuck you up if you don't deal with it honestly. And that's true of women you meet, too. So if I were you, I would stay away from anyone who was abused but who has not received tons and tons of counseling. And I think you'd probably be better off dealing with your own issues for awhile before getting into any kind of relationship.

Here's the thing that you know yourself, if you stop and think about it, and that you will see on this forum again and again and again. There's an old saying about it. "I and the public know/ what all school children learn/ that he to whom evil is done/ does evil in return."

So watch out for someone who overshares... and forgive me if I'm wrong but someone who comes out and says they were raped to anyone they just met is giving WAY too much information... because that's a classic sign of NO BOUNDARIES! When you find someone with no boundaries, be careful, man. Be very careful. Because they will come traipsing into your business and fuck you up big time.

Here's what I should have said first. Have confidence, man. You will find someone good, someone loving, someone understanding. You will. Everyone is screwed up, in one way or another. Well, almost everyone, I guess. If you ease off the desperation, take care of yourself and grow as a man, you'll find someone who will love you for you, someone who will respect you and grow with you. You don't need "low hanging fruit." You want someone who you can respect, someone who you can be good to, who you can love.

If you want understanding, if you want people who will accept you and share stories of abuse and recover, keep coming back to this forum. This is a great place to affirm you experiences.

You'll be all right.

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#403538 - 07/13/12 07:15 PM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
chambers Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 118
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: DarkHadou
women don't really want to date men who were sexually abuse, only a few wouldn't mind, I don't want to be seen as weak and I don't want to have sex with her knowing I had sex with my dad, it's only fair to have both who were abused, that's the only way I would really feel comfortable

I wouldn't disclose my abuse to someone I was dating unless I had been seeing them for quite awhile and knew they really cared for me. You're probably going to end up having sex with someone you're dating before that ever gets brought up unless you bring it up.

Robert is really spot on about the oversharing and issues you will encounter if you and/or the person you're seeing hasn't dealt with past abuse.

I'm discovering all this as I've started dating again, it really sucks. I've found that I still have a lot of work to do for my own recovery. Honestly I'm sick of it, sick of trying, sick of failing, sick of being fucked up, and no one caring.


Edited by chambers (07/13/12 07:15 PM)

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#403607 - 07/14/12 11:36 AM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
WriterKeith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 945
Loc: southern California
DH, and guys,
I believe this is one of the bravest and most helpful threads we've had on the site.
Thanks for bringing this up, DH, and thanks to everyone who is posting on it.
Taking the risk and building healthy relationships is one of the most important steps we survivors can take.
_________________________
"A burned bridge can be a gift; it prevents us from returning to a place we should have never been."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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#403667 - 07/15/12 01:51 AM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3357
Loc: somewhere in Africa
i am married. but i can still relate to this thread.

when my history of CSA came out and the tactics i was using to try to cope were discovered by my wife, it put us into a weird limbo state - living together and sleeping in the same bed - but i was so triggered that i couldn't even attempt anything sexual. and she was so traumatized by the huge can of worms she had opened up, that she couldn't handle it either.

now we are in a strange situation - almost like "dating" - with me trying to court her all over again. trying to win her trust and affection and work up to the point where we can be sexually intimate - for the first time. because intimacy was not anything we had before - not emotional or sexual. i was always so detached and had so many reservations - not letting her get close to me because of fear and insecurity.

and i think that the important part is the intimacy - letting myself be known for the first time without reservations. i knew she loved me before - and i did the best i could t love her - but felt stunted and limited in my ability to feel and express love. i knew that there was probably more - but had no idea how to get there. you can't really receive unconditional love unless some of the "conditions" are out there that could cause a less persistent and accepting lover to back away or shut you down.

so now - i think we might be getting closer to a more physically fulfilling relationship - but only because i am stopping the hiding and deception and withholding and becoming more vulnerable. it is VERY SCARY. i'm like - this is me - warts and all - take me or leave me. amazingly - she is still with me. whatever happens next - it is still better than it was before.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#403683 - 07/15/12 11:27 AM Re: Dating a girl [Re: DarkHadou]
clay Offline


Registered: 06/16/12
Posts: 1
Loc: Select a State
Twenty years ago I lost the girl of my dreams over my sexual dysfunction. we both were 23 and didn't know how to handle my issues. Broke off engagement and a bitter breakup. Thought I was gay due to I couldn't "do it" with a girl. Been in a gay relationship for 17 years and I had a trigger earlier this year. Realize now that I've never done "it" with anyone, that I'm not gay that I was so messed up from the abuse. Have a great counselor helping scrape to the bottom of the barrel. Very good friends with exfiance, she understands now. Partner of 17 years is not taking this well at all, thinks I'm having a midlife crisis. He won't go to counseling with me. Ready to be out of this relationship but I feel guilty doing this to him. I realize now that I didn't want to do it with girls because of past failure with my fiance. Scary road ahead for me but I have to conquer the demons that the abuser put in my head. This site has been great in my recovery.


Edited by clay (12/05/12 09:53 PM)

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