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#403173 - 07/10/12 03:35 PM Shackle of Shame
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 406
Loc: west coast
"But we've been asking people with same-sex attractions to overcome something in a way that we don't ask of anyone else."
Says Alan Chambers who has just departed as one of the leaders of the Ex-gay movement Exodus, who's basic tenets say you can overcome same sex attraction with a combination of psychology and prayer.
Reported in the New York Times, July 8, 2012
http://www.smh.com.au/world/movement-spl...?skin=text-only

Exodus leaders claimed its network of ministries had helped tens of thousands rid themselves of unwanted homosexual urges. (sort of like a really big dump).

Andrew Comiskey, founder and director of Desert Stream Ministries, based in Kansas City, one of 11 ministries that have defected. Why? According to his words and ideology its "for those with same-sex attraction seeking an authentically Christian hope." "due to leader Alan Chambers's appeasement of practising homosexuals who claim to be Christian"

What does that mean. That the two are mutually exclusive, there is no authentic christian sex to be had amongst men with men- you can think it but heaven help you if you JUST DO IT. Nike and Homo's be damned.

So again we have a schism of those who doggedly claim that it is not possible to be a "practicing homosexual" and a christian. It must be fun to be a practicing heterosexual clearly this is natural, better and acceptable to god and the heirarchy of eternal hope.

Mr Chambers, who left the gay life to marry and have two children, said gay Christians like himself faced a life-long spiritual struggle to avoid sin and should not be afraid to admit it. further virtually every "ex-gay" he had ever met still harboured homosexual cravings, himself included.

But one promimant repair therapy advocate claimed it had helped him confront emotional wounds and "my homosexual feelings began to dissipate and attractions for women grew". emotional wounds imposed upon him by who or whom. the church, family , society, and even his repressed sense of self. Sinful!

I applaud Mr. Chambers for his courage and evolved reasoning that this forcing a change of orientation is a shackle of shame put upon no other group on earth.

This position is extremely sensitive and painful with many who struggle with a sense of self and moreover acceptance of that. It makes it even more complex when there has been sexual abuse of the child who now his even bigger deamons to face.

I makes me realize that no matter what evidence or logic , there will always be an ex-gay movement because they use a toxic mix of a little psychobabble and a lot of biblebabble. Imagine if this was the 15th century and we were talking about whichcraft , try to reason with them that the acts of a midwife or person that uses herbs to heal were not the result of some ungodly act. Nature would have that the baby to die and the sick to parish, "it's god's will". But to this day with homosexuality or those that struggle with their sexual identity whether, bi, gay, trans or anywhere on the continuum are "unnatural and going against gods will". What utter bunk. Its for people to finally say "I call bullshit".

Its not enough that they believe it, but those beliefs are to be thrust upon the rest of us. Sadly there will always be people incapable of logic and understanding because to quote a wise man once, "if you could reason with hyper religious people, there would be no religiously intollerant people". They are entitled to believe as they wish, but shut the f**k up already!

Shame on THEM.

grant
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#403176 - 07/10/12 04:03 PM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: 1lifenow]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
No, you shut up. As a god-fearing, wife-beating, penis-hating psychotic white American male it is my God-given right to poison the earth with my paranoid vitriol. I can't stop hating you cause then I'd start hating me and that ain't gonna happen.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#403177 - 07/10/12 04:31 PM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: 1lifenow]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Kc,Mo
I think the religious got it all wrong that is why they are called religious. They miss the point immensely . For it is not about imposing ones will upon one another truly it is about loving and treating one another with mutual respect . I view homosexuality as a thorn in my flesh . It keeps me humble it does not effect the fact that it infiltrates my mind my urges my appetites . NO different from anyone struggles with anything . We all struggle with something and it does not matter whether it is homosexuality, stealing,lying,cheating , you get the point .
Quote:
Might i add that it is not the urge of same sex attraction that is the sin . It is the acting out the urges acting out the sexual lust no different than heterosexuals acting out the lust .Being attracted to someone anyone same sex or opposite that is not sin. added to my post



The fact is people have made a big stink over one thing in order to hide the fact they have their own THING to deal with .

I will try to explain my view even though i no i am opening a Pandora's box .

I believe that the way people take the bible and try to make fit into their lives to suite themselves. I truly believe there is in fact sin . I believe you should not force your beliefs on people because if I really believe the bible and free will you must extend that courtesy to everyone . If God gives a choice why can we not impose or enforce our beliefs on others .

I am simply stating my belief not imposing i respect your belief if you do not believe in God or Jesus that is not only your right but it is also a freedom we have . So please do not assume that i have all the answers . I just want to share my 2 cents


If God says homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven nor the sexual immoral one must keep this in focus and inline with the rest of the word of God . Not just picking and choosing what they want to justify their own sin with .

Jesus said many things and i do not believe that there are contradictions . If one believes homosexuals are not going to make it into heaven simply because they are homosexual they are so far misguided in that belief . Because if they are not going to make it than none of are . Because one only have to recognize the sin in there life .


I think this is the whole key to Jesus and God and sin when you acknowledge sin in your life NO SPECIFIC SIN JUST THAT YOU INDEED SIN ask Jesus to cleanse this sin except him to inherit that sin than the sin is gone .

At that point it is between YOU AND GOD to work on the things he would have you work on . If you have excepted Christ into your life you are clean you are cleansed indeed.

It is a done deal whether gay,strait,bi,lair,thief, what ever it is that you are which plainly put is a sinner than you are now able to be welcomed into the kingdom because you are now looked at as clean by God .

The problem people make is trying to play God and pick and choose who is worthy and who is not . When you are born again you are new from that moment on , the holy spirit within you will determine what goes and what stays and i believe this is a private matter between you and God .

He decides what you work on not people . If you are working on things in your life and shedding other things besides the ones people think you should be ,than who the hell cares . He might decide that homosexuality is the thorn that keeps your focus on him while other things are being worked out . While you are working out your salvation just as planned .
I am using homosexuality because this was the topic and is so easy to illustrate just how far Christians have it wrong. Jesus excluded no one and the people that so called Christians condemned the most are the ones he loved the most the ones he ate with forgave and illustrated his love for all people not anyone perceived to be more of a sinner than another.

People can not go around thinking they have it all figured out as if they are God . Yes the bible is up for many different interpretations but when one realizes he does not have it all figured out and there is room for not understanding it all and also realizes there are things we will never understand we just have to trust that HE does and leave it at that. Instead of ad libbing or engaging in improvisation .
God uses people he uses sinners to do his work he came to save sinners no matter what the sin .And when people start making up their own minds who is worthy and who is not than you already no God has nothing to do with that . I hope some of this makes sense .

It is the work of the holy spirit that changes people and if it is not in Gods plan to take this sin or that sin away than that is Gods choice if the sinner has excepted that he or she has sin in their life and begins to allow the holy spirit to work in their life than what the holy spirit works on is between you and God not people.

If someone does not allow a homosexual in their church because of that reason than they should excuse themselves also because they should be welcomed just as Jesus would have welcomed them because they are no less sinners than the person judging them in fact the person realizing the need of forgiveness of sin probably is better of than the person judging the specific sin they think is more important than their own . Jesus would love them except them and if HE chooses to change their character than that is between God and the homosexual no different than changing the character of the whorlet or the thief.

We are all just human beings we are all people and no one is better than another i believe we all struggle with this thing called sin and Jesus allows me to come to him with this struggle and takes the burdens of my struggle . Nothing more or less I recognize my sin and the only thing that has worked with this struggle is Jesus now i will not say that you must do this or that i am just saying for me this works if at some point what you are doing is not working i would be happy to share what works for me.

Jesus loves all people he dislikes the sin we make it to complicated . If you believe you have sin and want help with it ask for his help . After that it is between you and him to work it all out . It is not homosexuality that needs to be removed from people it is only sin that needs to removed . If God made people than he made these so called homosexuals we are all just people not this or that we are all people in need of love and respect for one another to love one another just as we want to be loved .

This is not complicated how can hating someone have anything to do with loving ? As soon as people bring up their own beliefs about who is worthy and who is not than i no that some how they are missing the mark they are not getting the foundation of the Jesus which is love one another as yourself and except one another leave the rest up to God




Edited by nltsaved (07/10/12 10:30 PM)
Edit Reason: added more
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#403179 - 07/10/12 04:48 PM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: nltsaved]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: nltsaved
We all struggle with something and it does not matter whether it is homosexuality, stealing,lying,cheating , you get the point .



uh... methinks YOU might miss the point here. Reasonable people object to the notion that one can be "cured" of homosexuality because it's often couched with the truly reprehensible behaviors you listed: stealing, lying cheating. You get the point.

Ask Rick Santorum how that went, the equating of an identity with a reprehensible act.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#403180 - 07/10/12 05:14 PM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: 1lifenow]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Kc,Mo
really just trying to lend my 2 cents and i was in the middle of editing my post because i hit enter on accident . So not trying to make a point just trying to say something that has been on my mind and this just happen to be the time to do it .

I do not think homosexuality can be cured because i do not think it is something such as a disease , diseases needs to be cured not homosexuality
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#403199 - 07/10/12 08:09 PM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: 1lifenow]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1991
Loc: durham, north england
I always find it absolutely amazing when people start spouting this sort of rubbish, it is just so absolutely ridiculous to me to claime homosexuality is sinfull, straight out of the box with beliefs about a flat earth, or beliefs in phrenology, that people with higher foreheads are automatically more intelligent.

i suppose there will always be some wacko somewhere, but tht they get taken at all seriously in places like the united states I just find ridiculous.

A good friend of mine when i was doing my degree was studding to be ordained, and was one of the most practically decent and responsably christian people you could meet, ----- and was also gay.

I also love the way that it's always gay men specifically, and nobody mentions women at all, as if that victorian atitude that women were too innocent to be homosexual still exists (quite ironic sinse my next door neighbors are a happily married lesbian couple).

I'd be really sorry if this sort of belief system had a bad effect on any abuse survivers, sinse sa survivers are quite capable of making themselves feel enough shame without some idiot spouting as was said 15th century beliefs about s/xuality which is confusing enough anyway.

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#403401 - 07/12/12 01:32 PM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: 1lifenow]
betterdays Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 3
Loc: tennessee
what i believe is this.
it doesn't matter who you bed. it doesn't matter how much you have.
honestly part of me even thinks it's not of the utmost importance to believe in jesus and god. but i believe that no matter what you have to be kind and caring towards everyone. i mean everyone no matter the color of their skin or who they sleep with.
bible or not it only makes the world a more enjoyable place for all of us.

i know that this is just another page in the book of this ageless debate but as all things do, with time the general views will evolve. it may or may not be to the favor of tollerance but i do hope so.

we are all entitle to our own ideas and views and i don't wish to push myne onto you or anyone else. but this is what i believe.

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#404632 - 07/24/12 03:13 PM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: 1lifenow]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 07:18 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#405461 - 08/01/12 02:06 AM Re: Shackle of Shame [Re: bodyguard8367]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: bodyguard8367
I sometimes wish I could go back and be born into a family who lived in California or someplace where it was accepted to be gay.


I have a different wish, one that may eventualy come (but not in my lifetime): I wish it was accepted to be LGBT everywhere in the world when I was born. I have a dream where a strait kid and gay kid can play together in the street…

Everything I have seen on the EX-GAY movement is that it is bad. I believe the “Ex-Gay” movement preys on the prejudice against gays while also creating those prejudices. They help to create the problem, and money off it at the same time. I really fell for those who want to change their sexuality but their appears to be no magic pill or treatment to change that.

It’s like taking a bunch of blacks and teaching all the negative "stereo types" about blacks so he will want to become white and then handing him some makeup. Next thing you know they start wearing white makeup like Michael Jackson, but they are still black. A lot of blacks would have wanted to be white when decimation was at its’ high; you could have made yourself rich if white people believed it worked even if it was just white markup and a lot of self hate to create the desire to take the time to put on the make up every morning. Similarly “Ex-Gay” treatment provides a lot of self hate to create a reason to hide it and therapy is like makeup so you can say your better to those that knew you were black.

Somewhere I read that the Same Sex Attraction never goes away even with treatment… Some residual attraction still remains. Ex-Gay = Gay with enough gay hatred to hide who you are.



Edited by Napoleon (08/01/12 02:10 AM)
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“Your only limit within reason, is the one that you set up in your own mind.” Napoleon Hill, The Law of Success, 1925.

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