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#402563 - 07/04/12 08:19 PM Speaking in Tongues
Becoming Other Offline


Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 67
Loc: follow early Alice Miller, Del...
I'm going to present an overview of an ongoing child sexual molestation case in a bit. First though I need to provide some background to explain why I am interested in this.

I am trying to advance the position that their should be financial redress for child abuse perpetrated by parents. I'm going even further than this, I'm saying that the abuse standard sets the bar too high. I say that their should be redress any time a child is being used. By this I mean any time parents are using a child in order to gain adult identity, social legitimacy, or to keep a marriage together. What is the test for this? I say that it should be simply that there is animosity.

So in doing this I am intentionally attacking the self-reliance ethic. People say things like, "Your parents don't own you anything", "It's their money", and "You have to rely on yourself". I do not agree with any of this. I have had to endure harsh online treatment over this, but I still don't agree. I say that all it amounts to is an exoneration scheme for parents who have themselves acted in Bad Faith.

No, I don't equate this with severe abuse cases, but I still say that it is important that the parents be penalized and the child vindicated. Further, I feel that most of the exploitation of children is legitimated by the self-reliance ethic. So I am opposed to this and opposed to all the ways it plays out in our ethics, economics, and legal system.

I say that children should have rights, and these include rights to economic and social support independent of the family. When someone has used a child as property, even had a child for this reason, then they should be penalized and the child compensated and vindicated.

As such I have been trying to locate Comrades, those who share similar views and are working to advance them. In particular I want to know of attorneys who are trying to find ways of advancing such an agenda.

At a minimum I say that disinheritance should be prohibited. My understanding of this is that in Europe it is this way already. But I don't know this.

Here is a law firm in Vancouver which is working to establish the idea that family dysfunction is cause for litigation.
http://www.disinherited.com/article/dysfunctional-families

In an effort to pursue this and learn of works going on, I have interacted with those fighting for justice in the area of Catholic Clergy Sexual Abuse. I have learned of some of the attorneys involved and have talked with activists. As I see it, clergy abuse and family abuse are closely related, as the Catholic Church seems to do little more than promote the Good Family, and this alone constitutes child exploitation. I have found though that the Clergy Abuse activists have little to contribute to what I want to advance, and are made very uncomfortable by the subject.

So I learned of a paternal molestation case on going, where I casually know both parents. Of particular importance to me is the black sheeping of this eldest daughter. I finally got the chance to read the file. First, it is a religious fundamentalist family. Second, the father earns his living as a motivational speaker. Third, I only know about it because the father confided in me. What he told me matches with what it says in the case file.

Their church is something which I find deeply disturbing, a kind of insanity. They also hold motivational events in their church. So just issues one and two are for me cause for concern about the family, and I believe their 5 children should have de-programming services offered to them.

Item three is important because I have had misgivings about investigating something told to me in confidence. But there is an over riding concern here for me. I see myself as an activist, or want to be activist in this area. What the father told me was that all of this is caused by this eldest daughter. He blames her own history of drugs, alcohol, and promiscuity as being the whole reason this case exists. He says that she turned the two younger girls against him. His defense attorneys have submitted big reports trying to disqualify police video recordings of interviews. But they also claim that this daughter hates her father, and that some how this makes their client innocent.

Well, "hates her father" is my turf. That is, I say that animosity is evidence of the child having been used, exploited, and is by itself cause for compensation.

I cannot judge the criminal charges, but I heard the black sheeping myself.

I read this case and I see that it will proceed. It is not clear to me that there ever will be a civil case for the children to claim financial compensation.

I am reading an excellent book by Louise Armstrong, Rocking the Cradle of Sexual Politics, What Happened When Women Said Incest. She shows how most of the responses still blame the victims and she also claims that male incest is still being treated like a prerogative. So she sees the solution as having to involve political action. I agree with her and I am learning.

Let me anticipate one more objection, the claim that I might be intruding in something. Court cases and their files are public information. Anyone in the world who wants to can go to the court house and read the file, and if they wish to, sit in on the trial. I probably won't sit in on the trial because I don't have anything to add to it. But I am interested in their being civil redress. As all of this is a matter of politics, it has to be handled publicly.

So I've finally gotten to read the case file. I know I've been too long on the periphery of the legal system when I recognize the names of all of the police officers, the judge, and the prosecutor. Some of these people I have had personal dealings with. When I go to the court house, I recognize prosecutors and defense attorneys. Some of them must recognize me.

Of particular note in this case is that they used a different police detective to interview each family member. I recognize this kiddie room the police have set up. No, its not the bare light bulb hanging from the ceiling. It has plush carpeting, a sofa and coffee table, and there are lots of stuffed animals and toys.

The lead police detective and principle author of the report is someone I met 20 years ago. I was particularly taken with his abilities in dealing with different sorts of people and sensitive situations. He tried to diffuse racial prejudice and fear of gangs. He extended himself to talk an elderly woman into not accepting back a man who was using her. This had been a man who I also found to be completely unacceptable in some of his doings. I also extended myself to try and persuade the woman not to accept him back. This young officer educated many people in a positive way about police. Since, I've noticed his name on things from time to time. Now I see that he is the lead detective in this molestation case.

So let me lay out some of the parameters. The youngest of the three girls somehow ended up talking to a councilor at some sort of a youth center. Well, in times past they didn't have such youth centers or such councilors. This councilor was just a young intern, someone who probably wouldn't want to extend herself very far.

Well, this 8th grade girl talked about this and that, and said much about what her father had been doing with the eldest daughter.

In times past this would have just been dismissed. Here it was not. This young intern did exactly what the law requires. She wrote it up and faxed it to Police and Child Protective Services.

Things are not as they used to be.

Now this eldest daughter no longer lived with her parents and sisters. She lived in a different city. But soon Police were in contact with her and CPS was making a well being check on the family. What would follow would be the police doing careful interviews of everyone separately, and using different police officers to handle each family member.

So as you can see, so far I am liking this very much!

I'm going now to do my best to present this in as tactful a way as possible. I don't have to be as explicit as the police report is.

*********************************************************************************************
WARNING, GRAPHIC SEXUAL MOLESTATION INFORMATION
*********************************************************************************************

Most of this pertains to what the father had been doing with the eldest daughter from when she was age 8 until age 16. At age 16 I think she found someway to get out or something. Not sure.

He was fondling her all over, on a regular basis. Often it was in the context of giving her a massage in her underwear. He also referred to it as the "tickling game". She says this was done many hundreds of times. She did not feel that she could refuse. She would just try to keep her legs together to minimize it.

Once he directed her to change into her swimming suit for a "new game". This new game involved the use of string, beads, feathers, and also a serrated steak knife.

He has admitted to all of this. The mother has admitted to knowledge of this as well.

This guy has manic mood swings. He accepts a psychiatric diagnosis. When he has these swings he is known to often be grabbing at the girls, touching them all places. Sometimes he apologizes the next day.

He is always watching them dress and undress. He says to them, "Hey its okay, I'm your dad."

The youngest girl described him as "creepy".

When the eldest girl was 16 they took to strip searching her. This was led by the father, with the mother standing right there. They were concerned about her smuggling drugs in and out of the house, probably marijuana. This searching also included looking under the sanitary napkin stuck with adhesive to her underpants. This so angered her that she threw her underpants at her father. The mother and father have admitted to this strip searching and have tired to justify it.

********************************************************************
CONCLUSION
********************************************************************

When police came for him, he was in his car and had turned the ignition on. Police blocked his car. When they were putting the bracelets on him, the wife lamented that he is their only source of income ( they live quite well ) and speaking of the eldest daughter's upcoming wedding, "Who will walk her down the aisle?"

Police did not have to include these statements of the wife in their report, but I'm glad that they did.

This man has a spotless record. I've checked it myself. His only income is from motivational speaking and from his "coaching" clients.

He has been charged with 6 felonies. These address that fact that the children were in his care, that this was a repeat practice, and that there was some physical coercion involved, and recognition of their young ages. If convicted on all counts the maximum sentence could exceed 50 years.

Since he has been out on $500k bail, and he has paid $25k to an extremely high power law firm which specializes in sex crime defense. They lead their promotionals with talk of child sex abuse cases. They have been extremely busy trying to sink this case before it can get to a jury. They have already been able to delay it for 2 years. Usually case files don't have much except the police report before they go to trial. This law firm writes big inch thick glossy reports saying that the digital video recording evidence is bad. So the file is about 5 inches thick already.

The eldest daughter helped to get the two younger ones removed and then placed into her care. Since a married couple has been designated as their legal guardians.

The mother has been doing the leg work for this law firm. That is, she is the one who serves the DA's office with all the motions for delay and additional discovery.

The replies are written in the name of the elected DA, and authored by a prosecutor who seems specialized in these sorts of issues. The man who will be prosecuting at trial is merciless and experienced in child sex abuse crimes. The judge is someone who will have no sympathy for such a defendant. Neither of them will be intimidated by what to me seem like bullying tactics coming from this law firm.

The wife spends her time painting an elaborate mural on the walls of their church's kiddie room. I know of this case because the father confided it to me.

He blames the eldest daughter and her own problems with sex, drugs, and alcohol. The high power law firm presents pretty much the same narrative.

What I have heard from the church members is that they blame the Police Dept for making a case where there should be none.


Enough for now.

People will be reading this who have grown up in different decades and who live in different countries, where practices may be different. Before I say what my emotional reaction is to all of this, I am interested to hear what others think.

BO

( all contentious links expunged )
http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/

Louise Armstrong
Rocking the Cradle of Sexual Politics, What Happened When Women Said Incest
_________________________
Becoming Other
Exploited Children United

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#402650 - 07/05/12 04:43 PM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: Becoming Other]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
uhh.. could I get a digest?
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#402657 - 07/05/12 05:55 PM . [Re: Becoming Other]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
.


Edited by Life's A Dream (01/12/13 09:49 PM)

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#403646 - 07/14/12 07:21 PM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: Becoming Other]
Becoming Other Offline


Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 67
Loc: follow early Alice Miller, Del...
Life's a Dream,

Thank you for sharing that. I am sorry that such things are in the background of your father and that you have had to be exposed to the enduring aspects of such a legacy.

I don't support the concept of "dysfunctional family", as this is still based on the idea that there is some sort of "normal family" and so it amounts to reification. That is, one is worshiping the Good Family.

Instead I talk about exploitation and Bad Faith. Someone is living in Bad Faith when they have other choices, but decline to admit it. This statement from your paternal grandfather is a prime example of that, "I have to love you, but I don't have to like you."

FWIW, when I was about 3yo, still not exploring outside the house by myself, my father walked me to a school playground about two blocks away. Then he said, "I could leave you here." I asked him why, and he said, "Because I could." I was terrified. After that I never felt secure around my father again. Even to this day I can still feel that fear of him and a need to please him. As I look back over the decades and into what remained of my childhood, I can see that this rejection from him has shaped all of my interactions with him, and really shaped my entire life.

If a statement like this was just an aberration, reflective of a poor choice of words on his part, or just my own misunderstanding of him, then his real feelings would have been obvious and the misunderstanding corrected. But no, what he said was an accurate expression of how he really felt, and that has never changed.

I could say that such a parent should burn in Hell for all eternity. But the fact is, he already burns during this lifetime. Problem is, he is still able to hurt others along the way, and he does so, and he thinks he is right. I don't see that anything will ever change until their is redress, until parents are held responsible whenever they have used a child.

Some years later he would say that I am his pet. I questioned this, and again he just responded by affirming that it is true. He meant that I was like a dog or a cat.

Now of course this was when my mother was not around. She would not let him say things like that and would not say such herself. But still, what she actually felt was not that much different. For her, having children and keeping up the appearance of a Good Family were obligations.

What I am talking about, and what I read in your share, are children being used, exploited.

My own interest here is in finding ways to seek legal redress. I say that if a child has been used, then the parents are responsible. In practice what this should mean is that they have to pay. That is, they cannot exit with money or assets. They used a child, so they should be pauperized.

The kind of economically and socially isolated family of the age of industrial capitalism is most certainly a strange entity. While some people may think its just fine, if a child has been exploited, and if there is evidence for this in the resulting animosity, then the parents should be made to pay. They did not have to practice the family system. Nothing forced them to do this. So if they did and and there was harm, then they should pay. All sorts of things can be overlooked, but not the exploitation of a child.

I also notice in your story how central is the making of money. For my parents, holding onto money was important. The type of bad faith living I am focused on is a phenomenon of the middle class, that is people who have at least something.

What the Family System seems designed to do is to instill the Self-Reliance Ethic. It instills this, just like a primitive society might use hot coals or sharp stones to make scars.

So of course then, when people have a problem with the family, the usual response is simply to say, "Oh well, now I rely on myself." What this amounts to is exoneration of the parents, giving them a free pass, letting them claim that they did right. Self-Reliance is seen as the moral basis for even being able to make a criticism of one's parents.

Claiming redress on the other hand is much more difficult. One actually has to face the pain. One also has to see all the ways society tries to make such redress impossible.

What I want are lawyers who are trying to find ways to sue over an increasingly broad class of family issues. I want lawyers who are trying to find ways to make the US like many other countries by blocking disinheritance. In trying to find this, the going has been tough. Facing how we have been used is the hardest thing any of us can ever do. It is far easier to seek nirvana or enlightenment and. then to learn to live in the small corner of the world which is left when one has been so violated. The pain is incredible, all the more so when you see how society sanctions this exploitation of children and provides no redress. Rather it exonerates the parents and blames the child.

So what can one do? Well, most people are just like their parents. If they got beat over the head, the first thing they will do is have a child whom they can beat over the head. If tricky games where plaid with them, they will play games with a child of their own. If their parents read books which promoted parenthood, giving them license to use a child, then they will do the same. New books are published every few years. In my day it was Benjamin Spock. Now the new books deal with things like "attachment", "empathy", and "nurturing". Get the lingo down and you are authorized to make a child be responsible for your adult identity!

So the thing to look for is animosity. Sometimes for some reason you find people who have extreme animosity towards their parents. For some reason they are not in denial, and not 100% like their parents. When this is found, it is evidence that the parents have used the child, have lived in Bad Faith. The thing to do then is to sue.

You spoke about Pentecostals. Well what Pentecostalism is is simply a most extreme form of non-denominational Protestantism, where they take the Bible as a prescription. I have noticed that among Pentecostals that the most important aspect of faith is an external pronouncement of loyalty, "Are you a Christian? Are you Saved?" A very high percentage of the congregation will have had a serious history with drugs or alcohol. They tell their stories of Getting Saved.

So to me, the stories sound like the substituting one addiction for another. I am always telling them, "People who have been treated with dignity and respect and given the chance to develop and apply their abilities are not likely to become substance addicts. So I don't go along with this idea that alcoholics and addicts have some special need for redemption."

I have also noticed that in their families they always have a Black Sheep. They say things like, "So I have to wonder, did he/she really get Saved or not?" They even say this after the person has died at a very early age. I find it all to be extremely disturbing.

So what drew me to this molestation case was the strong animosity between this eldest daughter and her father, and the irrefutable confirmation of this in the father's black sheeping of her.

I am still a beginner here, and so I am not sure how I feel about the 50 year plus sentence that the state wants to give him. I just want him to get a smaller sentence, but then I want the money to go to the children.

I don't have anything to contribute to the criminal proceeding. But maybe I could get myself involved by finding a suitable lawyer who will get that money for the children. Maybe I could find some source of deprogramming from Born Again Christianity, and from a lot of other stuff, because these three daughters must be in need of emotional support to follow this through and destroy their father. Maybe this could be a place for me to finally be able to draw blood, and be the beginning of an ever expanding campaign to hold parents responsible for the ways they exploit children.

Vachss, Angela Doe case:
http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/excerpt_battle_11.html
_________________________
Becoming Other
Exploited Children United

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#403653 - 07/14/12 10:31 PM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: Becoming Other]
WriterKeith Online   embarrased
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 930
Loc: southern California
My pentecostal father is the perp who raped and tortured my sister and me. As an adult I 'forgave' him and was a model son. He responded with passive-aggressive behavior as well as blatant and cruel mocking my CSA symptoms in public forums. When my mom died in 2000 my father unleashed an unholy vengeance on me, took an adult 'new son,' an outsider, into his home, and disinherited me. He went as far as having me and other close family members physically assaulted and encouraged the attacker to return and murder us.
He remains, in his mind, "a model Christian father and leader."

Truth be told, I really do not want anything in my home to remind me of him as it took so much work to rid my thoughts of him. I seldom think of him. Even more so, I do not want any money, not even coins, that could in any way credit him with my future financial achievements.

After HE severed the relationship, I worked too hard to sever the last remaining threads, nothing more than indoctrinated guilt and a sense of obligation to him. I have no feelings for him good or bad, just pity. I have no desire to be reconnected through an inheritance.

I gave up everything for him, including my retirement account, my job, my home, even my own bed, to tend to his needs and care for him, just to be turned out and discarded. I realize now that the religious indoctrination he used to control me left me no other alternative but to pay the price I paid. Not for him, but for my own mental and emotional freedom from him. Even my subconscious mind recognizes there is no way any truthful person could accuse me of being a bad son or having deserved what he did to me as an adult.

And, in the end, I purchased my own salvation.
_________________________
Keith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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#403656 - 07/14/12 11:20 PM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: WriterKeith]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Keith, I know how you feel. My sperm donor hated me. God, the bible was used as a weapon against me from the beginning by my sperm donor. You know, you're going to hell (for doing anything that upset my abusive prick, religious nutjob sperm donor like just being alive), you're worthless, you don't deserve me (or god). The bible says all that about you, you little worthless piece of shit! My sperm donor didn't allow me to have friends, hated it if I was happy (didn't show it often) because his religious bullshit told him so. My mom, who is too religious--all she thinks about never anything else, backed him up or didn't say anything. I got beat in the name of god, cursed at god's name, etc., etc. I think my mom thinks I'm going to some hell (I don't believe in it and neither do the Jews by the way). "Well, now that you're judging..." is what I think. haha I don't judge anyone.

Therefore, I don't believe god cares and hate the christan version (hate the muslim version, too) because of it. God is indifferent. Acknowledge god exists (however you want) and take care of the planet and others. That's it. Sun, moon, stars makes the most sense to me. Bigger than me, far away from me, god's there somewhere.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#403811 - 07/16/12 04:12 PM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: Becoming Other]
WriterKeith Online   embarrased
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 930
Loc: southern California
Phoenix, man oh man I hear ya. My father likened himself to Abraham who laid Isaac on the altar to sacrifice, and to God who actually went through with giving his son up for others.

The cliches of "turn it over to Jesus," and "just let the Lord have his way" are the worst responses a believer can say to me, along with discrediting my faith experience or my particular church denomination. On second thought, the worst comment made to me has been, "God had a purpose for you and He allowed that to happen to you so you could help others." What an evil and vile God that would be if that were true.

There are a million scripted excuses believers can conjur up, and in the end they only re-victimize and blame me, something against the core of the Christian faith.

That said, I respect the faith of others so it puzzles me why many people's faith is shaken when they hear my story and they respond with anger, cruel judgement, and blame.

When my father was dragging my sister and I to the place of torture each weekend, my sister would tell me to pray to Jesus to come and save us. Jesus never came. Not once. My only salvation was that I learned to render myself unconscious to endure the pain and blood.

I should include here that I do hold to a belief in the spiritual realm, and that my faith has deepened and broadened immensely in my life journey. My personal walk cannot be identified or confined within the simplistic constraints of any existing religious doctrine that has been penned. Now more than ever I believe no one "has it right," and therefore it's time to lay down the stones and help and learn from each other instead.

Maybe I can be dismissed as "a liberal bleeding heart" by some, but if so, I have earned the title with integrity and an awful lot of my own bloodshed both figuratively and literally in the life path behind me.

When someone has experienced cold water from a garden hose washing blood off his legs following the weekly torture and sex sessions by this father and his "buddy," then he can have a bit more ground to judge me.

It's a very complex subject, because at the same time, faith is often the only lifeline that saves a childhood or adult sexual abuse/assault survivor. And I believe that we all on this site, including atheists and agnostics, are a vital part of that lifeline. That's the reason so many of us log into chat and Healing Circles here with no other intention than to hope to reach out and encourage others.

Or, then again, maybe I'm "just another bleeding heart liberal?" blush
_________________________
Keith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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#403999 - 07/18/12 07:57 PM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: Becoming Other]
Becoming Other Offline


Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 67
Loc: follow early Alice Miller, Del...
This is a bit of a clarification I wrote for someone. I really want to know what people think about this molestation case.

Here I repeat my attempt to tactfully summarize what it says in the police report:

*********************************************************************************************
WARNING, GRAPHIC SEXUAL MOLESTATION INFORMATION
*********************************************************************************************

I'm going now to do my best to present this in as tactful a way as possible. I don't have to be as explicit as the police report is.

Most of this pertains to what the father had been doing with the eldest daughter from when she was age 8 until age 16. At age 16 I think she found someway to get out or something. Not sure.

He was fondling her all over, on a regular basis. Often it was in the context of giving her a massage in her underwear. He also referred to it as the "tickling game". She says this was done many hundreds of times. She did not feel that she could refuse. She would just try to keep her legs together to minimize it.

Once he directed her to change into her swimming suit for a "new game". This new game involved the use of string, beads, feathers, and also a serrated steak knife.

He has admitted to all of this. The mother has admitted to knowledge of this as well.

This guy has manic mood swings. He accepts a psychiatric diagnosis. When he has these swings he is known to often be grabbing at the girls, touching them all places. Sometimes he apologizes the next day.

He is always watching them dress and undress. He says to them, "Hey its okay, I'm your dad."

The youngest girl described him as "creepy".

When the eldest girl was 16 they took to strip searching her. This was led by the father, with the mother standing right there. They were concerned about her smuggling drugs in and out of the house, probably marijuana. This searching also included looking under the sanitary napkin stuck with adhesive to her underpants. This so angered her that she threw her underpants at her father. The mother and father have admitted to this strip searching and have tired to justify it.

********************************************************************
CONCLUSION
********************************************************************

So our DA's Office has charged this guy with 6 felonies. These recognize that this was a child he had regular access to and that the practice was being repeated, and that there may have been some physical coercion involved in some aspects of this. If convicted on all counts the maximum sentence he could receive exceeds 50 years.

Is this what you mean by a long sentence? Do you think this is right in this situation? What sentence do you think he should get? This is what I really want to know. I just want to know what other people think, as I am a beginner here, but I am going to get myself into the middle of this.

The police report was more graphic than what I wrote. I did not write it the way they did because I don't want to traffic in such texts, as I don't know how people might read them on the open net and on these sorts of forums. The police wrote it the way they did, because they had to under the circumstances.

I am greatly offended by what this man did. I am also offended by the mother and by their entire church. I am offended by the acts, and also by the attitudes which try to justify and legitimate them.

A curious thing, a few days ago this defendant just happened to sit down across from me at a table in a library. He was using his laptop computer. I spoke to him in a friendly way.

I take great exception to this guy's religion, and to all the attitudes which underlie it. I also take exception to the way he projects this into his occupation of motivational speaking. But beyond that, I have found him and his wife to be nice, though kooky. They extended themselves to come to court for another case which I am concerned with, when they did not need to. If they could impose the judgemental standards of their religion onto other people, then I would consider them dangerous. As it stands now though, they are only dangerous when they can use a parental authority to impose their religion based predjudice.

So I have some reservations about aiding in their destruction, about inserting myself into this matter. But on the other hand, it is something I care about deeply. Also, I heard the guy black sheeping the eldest daughter. He spoke directly to me and did this. He said that the whole case is based on false accusations and that the reason for this is this daughter's own problems with sex, drugs, and alcohol from the age of 16. He said she was even having sex in the bushes in the park. He also blames her for turning the two younger daughters against him. He said that what she has done with them since they were transfered into her custody has been."Pure malice!" By this time he was pacing back and forth and making lots of gestures.

Well sorry guy, you stepped into my territory. At least it is territory I want to advance into. As far as I am concerned that sort of denigration, black sheeping, is by itself cause for redress.

I asked him about the "false accusations", I said, "Do you mean there is no substantial basis to the claims, or do you mean that it is a matter of misinterpretation?"

"It's a matter of misinterpretation."

So its like it says in the police report, he generally admits to what is being claimed. What it seems then is that he just rationalizes this some way as being in some different category than sexual molestation, and as being a parental perrogative. What it comes down to is this is the role he sees himself as authorized by God Almighty to fulfill. This is why he has children and this is why he practices the Family System.

So again, what sentence do you think he should get?

What could be added to what the cops and DA are already doing? What could I possibly do here? First I wish there were some deprogramming resources available. These girls need help in deconstructing all the ideology behind Born Again Christianity, the Good Family, and Motivationalism. Second, looking at this as a beginner I still am not exicted about this guy getting a real long sentence. Rather, I just want the children to get the money. These are the areas where I think it could be possible that I could locate resources which would help.

And yes, I do want to completely pauperize these parents. I think their assets should even be seized before they can be handed over to his high powered Sex Offender Defender. I mean, this is how they do it in Narcotics and Escort Service cases, they deem the assets proceeds of illegality, and they are able to seize them.

Well, these assets are the proceeds of Bourgeois Family Happiness Inc., an enterprise which exploits children. So they should not be able to retain control of those assets and use them to hire a specialist law firm.


Right to Kill (1985)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KflGXruJRc

Foster care reform litigation:
http://www.youthlaw.org/publications/fc_docket/

Becoming Other
Exploited Children United, new portal page:
http://theexploitedunited.onlinewebshop.net

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#404015 - 07/18/12 09:13 PM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: Becoming Other]
Becoming Other Offline


Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 67
Loc: follow early Alice Miller, Del...
Dealing With Bad Faith

Anybody remember Gene Scott? He was on satellite television
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45cAaIHdozI part 1 of 6

I know a self appointed preacher who seems to be imitating Scott. Most definitely he is playing the part of the abusive parent, in style, message, and just in the role itself. Its almost a parody, except that people like that are impossible to parody.

Do you remember Terry Kellogg who appeared with John Bradshaw in his PBS series "On the Family"?

http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Toys-Dreams-Understanding-Codependency/dp/1560730013

Kellogg said, "Co-dependents come it two types, those who watch the PTL Club, and those who watch the Catholic Channel."

WriterKeith and phoenix321,

I can relate to all that you say. Where I am coming from though is I want to do something about it. I recognize that parents are using children for their own emotional needs, and then justifying it as legitimate authority. Well, I want to take apart that claim to authority, I want children to be guaranteed certain minimum social and economic rights independent of their parents, and I want to severely penalize parents who are using children and using the parental role for their own identity needs.

Some of these matters I have come to look at differently than most people do. Like someone might say:

"I grew up in a dysfunctional family. No one could communicate with anybody else. It was all triangulated and crazy. So life has been hard for me. But now, things are starting to work out as I have ( then follows a list of all the things taken to symbolize successful adulthood.....job, income, residence, car, stuff, spouse, children, investments, retirement plan, burial plot ). So I am glad that I have been able rely on myself and leave the past behind."

Well I listen to that and my reaction is, "It sure doesn't sound dysfunctional to me. It sounds completely functional because you've fully accepted the Self-Reliance Ethic. This is how you judge yourself, and presumably everybody else. It also sounds like because of this ethic you exonerate your parents. You may portray them in an unflattering manner, but it goes no further. I mean, some tribal societies use hot coals and sharp stones to do scarification and genital mutilation. The kind of family you are describing is just as functional as are those hot coals and sharp stones."

"Oh, well you don't understand, there was also sexual, physical, and emotional abuse."

"Attitudes about what constitutes abuse have changed during the last 50 years and are continuing to change. In most of the cases the parents seem to think that what they did was right, and that despite public professions to the contrary, that it was necessary. It all serves to break the child, and this is how the parent legitimates it. You talk about how well you are doing in terms of self-reliance and wanting no redress, so it seems like it worked."

"Oh, but people don't think like that now. Just look at the books on the store shelves today."

"Yes, there is a long history of books to promote parenthood. One of the first of the liberal pedagogies was Rousseau's Emile. Alice Miller writes about this. It describes how to make it look to the child like it is free, while actually the parent holds all power. It outlines dialogues where the parent is clearly playing head games with the child. These sorts of books are continually be re-written as the market saturates. In my day it was Benjamin Spock. Today the books talk about things like "empathy", "nurturing", "attachment", and "natural". The foundations are always the same though, they make the parental role very important, and the give the reader license to execute it. They provide a justification. Making images is what capitalism does. This books are most definitely part of this. The images give people something to aspire to, something to buy the accessories for, and a way to measure themselves. The one who is getting used is the child."

So I want to find ways to strike back.

Some of the happiest people I have ever met are from Latin America. For them family seems to be something of experience, not an ideology. The ones I speak of usually don't read any books in English or Spanish. Okay, so I try to understand that. Mostly its that they have not been full adapted to middle class norms and aspirations. They are innocent of such.

Okay, well I am not them, and most of the people I know are nothing like that. Also FWIW, what I say does not apply to Hispanic Pentecostals, as most of them have families filled with alcohol, drugs, violence, and criminal convictions and so they use religion as a denial system.

Its the middle class of the industrialized nations who are living in Bad Faith. They are using children, knowingly, and it is the children who suffer and will contiue to suffer over the long years it takes to dismantle it. These kinds of parents are the ones I want to go after, and the litmus test is not abuse, but rather it is animosity.

First and foremost, I don't want these sorts of parents to escape with money. If you have used a child, then you are responsible. Maybe you have nothing, but more often than not the people who do this do have something. And besides its in imitation of those higher up the socio-economic scale that other exploiters aim. So going after those who have used a child, where there is animosity, and especially when they blame the child, makes perfect sense.

The lightest form of redress is simply to abolish disinheritance. I say that this should apply in all cases. But where there is animosity, then there has to be more immediate redress.

Rather than promote the self-reliance / exoneration ethic, I want to stop the exploitation.

Of course then this current fundamentalist family sexual molestation case, where the father tries to legitimate it by black sheeping the eldest daughter, makes for an excellent place to jump in!

Becoming Other

Exploited Children United, new portal page:
http://theexploitedunited.onlinewebshop.net

Bad Faith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_(existentialism)

Chaka Khan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOrp4smAmHg

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#404047 - 07/19/12 03:32 AM Re: Speaking in Tongues [Re: Becoming Other]
WriterKeith Online   embarrased
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 930
Loc: southern California
Bec. Other, power to ya! I think the first step in the U.S. is to remove the statute of limitations for suing and prosecuting perps of sexual abuse.

re: Dr. Gene Scott. I could tell stories. Firsthand stories. My early career was in gospel music and I crossed paths w/Scott when I accompanied a gospel recording group in their appearance on his show. Wow... that was in the 1970s.

I also knew a handful of folks who had been a part of his TV program staff and were trying to get away from him at the time. No one could just simply resign and leave.
_________________________
Keith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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