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#402527 - 07/04/12 03:34 AM Love of God?
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
So now I’m coming out to you as a religious person. I really need help regarding to this and I’ve read some threads in here that made me more courageous. I’ll tell you my religious development and where I stand today with my questions that I never seem to find the answers to.

Well, I know I was religious as a child. I think I was religious in different ways in different parts of me since I was already multiple. This makes it extra hard for me to be religious today since I seem to have many different relationships to God and many different sets of explanations.

I remember as a child being childly religios like Christian children are taught to be. I believed the biblical stories like true tellings and I believed that if I was just a good person everything would be fine. I prayed for normal stuff like being picked in gym class and passing tests. I was constantly afraid of not being good, feeling bad about all bad desires I had such as being unfriendly, lazy, steel candy from the parents and so on.

Then in the parts of me that endured the abuse I hade one part that really connected with the stories about Jesus and identified with the self sacrifice. I remember praying and feeling like I received answers in the line of me being supposed to take all this shit so that other kids wouldn’t have to, sacrifice myself to protect the perps from doing even worse things to other kids and also trying to save the perps and other people by being some kind of emotionally care taking lamb of god. This made total sense to me at the time and it made it a lot easier for me to endure all the abuse. But I think this is actually not very good for my healing process today.

Then I have the angry part, the part who would pray and pray for abuse not to happen and it never helped. I wasn’t saved or even comforted. In this part of me I felt that if God exists he hates me for no good reason and I don’t want to worship a God like that. I saw God as a bad parent, tormenting the innocent child and then repeating “you should love me with all your heart..” and so on. This part of me made me atheist in adolescence. Then I also read the Bible and found lots and lots of horrible things said to be allowed by God.

Then I’ve had some experiences of actually being helped by God but that still makes me a bit angry. So there were good people in my life. Should I be grateful to God for the good stuff that happened and blame the bad stuff on others? Sounds like bad parenting to me as well. And if I give God the credit for those occasions when abuse did not happen, then as a result I must also blame him for the abuse that did happen? If God has the power to meddle in human life, then he is also responsible for the consequences of not doing that.

Why did God let me suffer like this? Why did all of this happen? Back to the Jesus-identification: this was my purpose in life, I was supposed to endure it, maybe it has something to do with karmic stuff in earlier lives or maybe I was sent out to a horrible place to try to spread some light, make some kind of change. I was there to reduce pain for others. But then comes the question: Jesus suffered and then he was killed. I suffered for my whole childhood and then I was set free. What is the purpose of that? I should have been killed when the mission was over, then it would have made sense. But now I’m supposed to live my life and try to heal. How can I heal when the purpose of my life is getting broken for the sake of God and other people?

So back to the God hates us and we hate him too. But then I have this urge to pray almost every day and I can feel God reaching out to me and I sense that it is good. But then I remember being abandoned during abuse, and I remember that my purpose in life is to be abused, and then there is this wall between me and God that I can’t get myself through.

I don’t know what to do about this. How do you explain abuse continuing and God not intervening? And it’s not just me, I’ve prayed for little kids as well and it didn’t help. The sentence that God never gives you more than you can handle is simply not true. I’ve seen little kids get so abused they just passed out and the only thing that could protect them was some other kid (like me) sacrificing themselves. And so many survivors are institutionalized or commit suicide or just never learn to love themselves.

I could understand why I was meant to be abused but these other innocent kids who clearly could not handle it, that I could never understand. So it is not just me, lots of innocent people are being abused and hurt while God is doing nothing about it. And then we have the bible, especially the old testament, filled with human cruelty of which a lot of it is explained with Gods will.

How do you manage to have a relationship with God? I really want to know. I’m not finding the way on my own and I can’t ask a priest because they don’t understand the reality of this, they just say that it’s the free will of humans that cause all evil while God is just good, but that’s not really what I read in the bible and also it’s kind of hypocritical, blaming all bad stuff on human beings (who were still created by God) and then praising God for everything we like. This is not meant for debate but for real religious thinking. Those of you who abandoned religion are welcome too, atheism does not exclude religious troubles.

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#402593 - 07/05/12 04:34 AM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3397
Loc: somewhere in Africa
BC -

Wow - so much of this sound like me - not the multiples - but much of the rest of it. i'll try to respond in more depth later, but good to hear from you and let's keep up this dialog.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#402824 - 07/07/12 04:45 AM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3397
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Dear Blessedcurse,

First I have a couple of disclaimers:

1. These are *MY* thoughts – based on my understanding of the Bible and the teachings of Jesus – and influenced also by my own experiences and opinions. This is not necessarily what a church or theology book or priest/pastor/minister would say. If I have it wrong – I’m sorry. Don’t take anything I say as the ultimate final word. Ask God to show you the truth.

2. Whatever I may say, regardless of how persuasive or eloquent I may be – and even if you totally agree with it in your own mind – it will be irrelevant unless it is something that you come to truly believe in your heart and put into action with your will. There are truths that I have known all my life that have suddenly come alive to me and I have embraced them and they have changed me - because of some change in my attitude or a new-found openness or honesty that I was willing to try for the first time.

Second – I am wondering about your screen name. I know the power that words have had in my life and I recently realized that the over-whelming majority of words that I received as a child from the most influential people in my life, were indeed curses. Not in the commonly-used sense of having someone swearing at me. But in the more ancient and spiritual and biblical meaning of negative thoughts and wishes and predictions that influenced my self-image, destroyed my confidence, defined my view of reality, and shaped my future. The blessings – meaning the descriptions of a positive identity, a gifted life, and a hopeful and productive and successful future – along with the desire for God to honor those - were few and far between. I really believe that those words – and the verbal abuse that accompanied all the other flavors of abuse in my childhood – combined with other factors (some of my own making or choosing) to shape me and the direction of my life in significant ways. I am now trying to “re-wire” my brain – both my patterns of thinking and emotions – to correct some of those wrong pathways. Affirmations, meditation, prayer – all are helpful in this process. Not that I am an expert – but learning as I go…

Now to some dialog –

*** “Well, I know I was religious as a child. I think I was religious in different ways in different parts of me since I was already multiple. This makes it extra hard for me to be religious today since I seem to have many different relationships to God and many different sets of explanations.”***

I was raised in a religious, church-going home. But that didn’t stop the abuser – a step-father – from what he did – he even justified some of the physical abuse by claiming it was discipline that God commanded parents to do. I never developed multiple identities – just went far away in my mind and left lots of memories behind. So I don’t know how to suggest you try to coordinate your various reactions and deal with them. What I can understand, however, is the mixture of conflicting emotions, beliefs and thoughts that I had within my single consciousness. Lots of conflict between contradictory and mutually exclusive reactions. I could best describe it as: “I love God/I trust God/I distrust God/I fear God/I resent God/ I am angry at God.” So – I guess the best approach would be to address your multiple identities’ various reactions as if it were a group of people in the same conversation and just try to cover all the bases. Deal with them all – but try to answer first whichever one seems to be the most insistent at any one time.

*** “Then in the parts of me that endured the abuse I had one part that really connected with the stories about Jesus and identified with the self sacrifice. I remember praying and feeling like I received answers in the line of me being supposed to take all this shit so that other kids wouldn’t have to, sacrifice myself to protect the perps from doing even worse things to other kids and also trying to save the perps and other people by being some kind of emotionally care taking lamb of god. This made total sense to me at the time and it made it a lot easier for me to endure all the abuse. But I think this is actually not very good for my healing process today.”***

There is a verse in the Bible that says, “greater love has no man than that he lay down his life for his friends.” This is a tremendous act of love that you did. And it is very profound that at such a young age you would have even been able to grasp this concept of self-sacrifice and that is like Christ. It may have helped you to endure some unbelievably difficult events – and in that sense – maybe it was useful to your survival at the time. But you are right that it probably is not too helpful now.

*** “Then I have the angry part, the part who would pray and pray for abuse not to happen and it never helped. I wasn’t saved or even comforted. In this part of me I felt that if God exists he hates me for no good reason and I don’t want to worship a God like that. I saw God as a bad parent, tormenting the innocent child and then repeating “you should love me with all your heart..” and so on.”***

Yeah – how well I know that train of thought. One of my first posts here was along those lines. I won’t repeat it here. You can go back and read more if you want. There were some good responses from other guys that really helped me. But – bottom line – I had to come to my own conclusions to get past my own objections and anger. Even though some of the stuff others were saying was very similar to my own conclusions – I had to get it for myself.

*** “Jesus suffered and then he was killed. I suffered for my whole childhood and then I was set free. What is the purpose of that? I should have been killed when the mission was over, then it would have made sense. But now I’m supposed to live my life and try to heal. How can I heal when the purpose of my life is getting broken for the sake of God and other people?”***

I saw it a little differently. I only recently – this past Easter – started to identify with the suffering of Jesus. (I posted about that too and the title has “crucifix” in it.) The important thing to me is that Jesus did not escape abuse because of his privileged position and identity. He went through it. And according to the Bible, he did it for us. That is very powerful for me. A proof of his love – that I always had reservations about before (like he loves the whole world – but not me.) And the fact that God allowed Jesus to suffer without intervention tells me that just because I suffered without intervention, it doesn’t mean that God does not love me.

*** “Then I’ve had some experiences of actually being helped by God but that still makes me a bit angry. So there were good people in my life. Should I be grateful to God for the good stuff that happened and blame the bad stuff on others? Sounds like bad parenting to me as well. And if I give God the credit for those occasions when abuse did not happen, then as a result I must also blame him for the abuse that did happen? If God has the power to meddle in human life, then he is also responsible for the consequences of not doing that.”***

I totally agree with this – couldn’t have said it better myself. No answers … I don’t get it either – I just have to believe that there is a bigger plan and God has the whole picture. I just have to put that aside sometimes and hope that someday it will all make sense – or maybe that it won’t matter as much anymore. Not easy to do. I want answers!

*** “But then I have this urge to pray almost every day and I can feel God reaching out to me and I sense that it is good.***

Yes, I think that instinct is a good one. I trust that if you continue praying and reaching out to God, it can only result in something positive. It is wonderful that you do sense God’s interest in you, in spite of everything. I found great comfort in that faith – even in the midst of the greatest times of confusion, pain and even anger at Him.

*** “But then I remember being abandoned during abuse, and I remember that my purpose in life is to be abused,” ***

Here – I totally disagree with you. I don’t believe that your purpose was to be abused. I believe that was a perversion of and rebellion against God’s purpose for you that was imposed upon you by perpetrators that did not care about you or about God’s purposes. I challenge you to try and find God’s true purpose for you. I’m still finding mine.

*** “and then there is this wall between me and God that I can’t get myself through.”
“How do you manage to have a relationship with God? I really want to know.”***

As i understand it, this part is both incredibly simple – and incredibly difficult for our human minds to understand. If you make it through to this point, let me know if it is making sense. This is already pretty long – but I want you to know your concerns are taken seriously. Do you have any comments or questions or objections? I don’t want to throw too much at you at once. And if you prefer, we can continue this by way of PMs.

i honor you for your persistent pursuit of truth and wrestling with these difficult issues instead of just giving up.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#402837 - 07/07/12 01:43 PM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
**possible triggers**

Thank you for inviting those of us who've "abandoned religion" to respond. Tho, to be sure, I never HAD relgion in the first place so I didn't really abandon it. My study of the Bible has been as an agnostic. So I am not in the flock. But I'm not the wolf either(Bill Mahr anyone?)

BC you really hit the nail on the head with this one. In the OT the God of the Israelites is an arbitrary bastard full of rage and vengence -not exactly a healthy example for those of us living in the modern age. In the NT the godhead (father, son, holy gohst) is playing a shell game. How can anyone reconcile those mixed messages within his own experience?

I take the long view, like prehistoric. Humans have always tried to make sense of their world from ancient cave paintings thought to have religious ritual significance to the Mayan Calendar to the Hubble Telescope. We've used these tools to explain and exalt the unfathomable mystery that is creation. Nothing comes close to a complete explanation and so we move from mode to mode as our thinking and understanding of life, the universe and evertything evolves. The ancients didn't feel like they controlled their world. They were the unhappy recipients of plagues and floods and torment. They worshiped and sacrificed to their gods to assuage these catastrophes. Seems like there's an awful lot of propaganda in the OT warning us not to wroship the wrong god or practice idolitry. Why is the one true god of the Isrealites such a paranoid delusional? But through the march of civilization humankind has benefited from law and medicine and agriculture and an unending renewal of relgious theology. (Just think about the trajectory Jews -> early christians -> Catholics -> Great Schism -> 95 These of Martin Luther -> Protestants v Catholics -> Vatican II. In each case there has been a quantum leap forward in relgious thinking)

The quantum leap we see in the two books of the Bible is a shift in our collective understanding in what it means to be god-like. So I see the Bible as a human book not the infalliable word of God. It is humanity's contemplation on creation and our place within the universe. These spiritual breakthroughs are the manifestations of divinity, in Christian terms, these beneficial teachings are the divine will of God. The parables of the Bible are insturments for helping us know how to act within a confusing universe. But these books aren't a cohesive treatise that must be accepted verbatim in it's entirity.

I am not saying give up your faith but I am validating your critique of Christianity. You're questions are valid and from my point of view there's no reasonable answer except take what you can, focus on the healing side of spirituality and leave the rest. Especially the guilt. After what we've been through who needs that, right?
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#403000 - 07/09/12 10:38 AM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
Traveler: I've read your post several times now and I want to answer but it's just to big for me, the thinking I mean, I don't know where I stand. I think about this constantly and writing an answer in my head so it's coming wink Perhaps in a pm depending on content. Just wanted to say how grateful I am that you took your time to write this, means so much.

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#403002 - 07/09/12 10:51 AM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
Scottyg: "So I see the Bible as a human book not the infalliable word of God. It is humanity's contemplation on creation and our place within the universe."

This is much how I see it actually. I've read the bible and I think it's impossible to see every sentence as a litteral message from God, just compare "eye for an eye" with "turn the other cheek"

So my religiosity has not so much to do with the words of the bible, except for my own interpretations of the life and death of Jesus and some prophets and such. I think there is a God but every person has to find their way to him/her/it and I think every religion is an attempt to explain and understand this God that cannot be understood by human brains.

This is a reason why I can't seek guidance from a church or even from most christians. Either they just quote the bible at random, finding a nicely sounding sentence in the OT wich is not satisfying to me since next to the nice stuff in the OT there are also lengthy descriptions of how God sanctions opression, ethnic cleansings, child sacrifices, child abuse, slavery and so on and so forth. I just can't take the OT as any other religious guidance than what you wrote, the example of earlier generations struggle to describe God and get close to God. Just like any other tribal chonicles.

This disqualifies me from being a part of a christian community, not that I'm excluded, I just can't handle this hypocrisy. Also, I don't care wether Jesus mother was a virgin, wich also disqualifies me from christian community.

My faith is not intellectual or based on a literal belief in scriptures. It's deeply emotional and something I've discovered in my healing process (after having declared myself atheist in my teens). I believe this stance makes it more difficult since I can't just accept the answers of the dogma, of the church, I need to find answers that make sense to me in a deeper way. But I also think this stance means I don't get hurt by christian hypocrats who just want to impose their way of life on others, throwing around blame and shame like those I met when I was a kid.

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#403021 - 07/09/12 01:23 PM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Good. Glad we are on the same page when it comes to scriptures. BC, you are not alone in your need to emotionally connect to some higher spiritual power. Though it is more difficult than adopting prefabricated religious thought, you will find greater solace finding your own answers that "make sense to me in a deeper way."

I feel a bit sheepish here (no pun intended) because I have not explored this part of myself in a very long time and it's due to the reasons you have listed. This thread has inspired me to reconnect, so thanks.

In these threads I see a lot of pain and confusion and I think much of it comes from the underlying premise that God (capital g) is the Master of our Universe controlling every event in each of our lives. To add confusion is the premise that (our God-granted)free-will gives humans the ability to make the wrong choice but God it is God and God alone who's responsible for all the right things. Again, we have this personified deity that seems a bit arbitrary and kind of a front-runner when it comes to right and wrong.

I like to step back and think of god (little g) as the force that facilities creation but does not micro-mananage it. God (little g) is the glue that binds the universe and reveals our inter-connectedness. I've mentioned in another post that I really like the spiritual concept of god as described by the Taoists, who refer to walking in god's light as The Way. If you're not already familiar check out the Tao Te Ching -loosely translted "The Way and its Power". The writing is deceptively simple. Almost non-nonsensical. It will seem very strange because its mostly couplets that are paradoxical. But if you read one at random (there's no narrative so you can read any part at any time) and meditate upon that one you may find it provides wisdom. The book has helped me sort through these confusing issues regarding spirituality. In fact I think I'll buy it again.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#403045 - 07/09/12 06:23 PM Re: Love of God? [Re: traveler]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Kc,Mo
outstanding , very well thought out and very well said !!
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#403092 - 07/10/12 04:09 AM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93

Traveler: Ok so here goes.

About the screen name. It’s from the song Blessed Curse by Funeral Mist and I guess it captures my conflicted feelings for my religiousness. To me, I’m starting to realise there is a difference between religion and god, and I want to distance myself from organised religion and still be in contact with god. The song Blessed Curse is made up by two “Christian” poems intertwined, both concerning the enormous punishment awaiting the person that doesn’t obey God. This is not my belief but it’s something I need to deal with since it’s kind of programmed in me. I think I need to deal with these distorted images of god to be able to connect with the real power of god.

""I could best describe it as: “I love God/I trust God/I distrust God/I fear God/I resent God/ I am angry at God.” So – I guess the best approach would be to address your multiple identities’ various reactions as if it were a group of people in the same conversation and just try to cover all the bases. Deal with them all – but try to answer first whichever one seems to be the most insistent at any one time.""

This is really good advise. I think a big trap for me is to only see one of these views of god inside of me and forget the rest. Of course that leads to any insight feeling like a bit of a lie since I neglect the other views of this. I’ll try to write so that all part can be in the discussion and be patient about some alternative perspectives coming up destroying stuff that I think I have understood.

""There is a verse in the Bible that says, “greater love has no man than that he lay down his life for his friends.” This is a tremendous act of love that you did. And it is very profound that at such a young age you would have even been able to grasp this concept of self-sacrifice and that is like Christ. It may have helped you to endure some unbelievably difficult events – and in that sense – maybe it was useful to your survival at the time. But you are right that it probably is not too helpful now.""

Yes, this is the part that I think I need most to talk about right now. This is how I remember it. I remember the feeling of getting an answer from God inside my mind during abuse. It was an approval of what I was doing. I always felt God approved of me taking on the abuse. Not because abuse was good, but because it was good that I protected my soul and my conscience and my sanity by accepting to be the victim instead of complying in doing stuff that would have destroyed my mind completely.

I’ve felt this meant that God approved of the abuse but now I’m starting to think otherwise. I think now that God approved of my way of handeling the abuse. This does not mean I was born to be abused or that God liked what the abusers did to me. But I always felt God supported my actions. I have never felt shame about what was done to me during those numerous occations when I “chose” to be a victim to save others and to save my mind. I have never felt dirty or bad or shamed because of these things.

As I remembered it, I learned to dissociate and leave my body around the age of five or six, and then I also received the message that this was good, under the circumstances. After that, when I had learned to put the abuse in a perspective and dissociate the pain, everything was so much easier. I wasn’t confused or shamed anymore. I knew I took on abuse to save others and my own mind and I knew it was morally ok. I actually think I was not that traumatized by these experiences. It was like a mission, a work. I knew what had to be done.

I was deeply traumatized by earlier abuse though (which of course was the reason I developed these coping strategies that protected me from further traumatisation) and nothing about my situation was good or even ok. I should never have had to develop that ability and no child should have to receive the message from God that under these circumstances, anything you do to keep your sanity and save others is ok.

This was the message I felt I received. Under the circumstances, anything you need to do to keep your sanity and save other victims is ok. If you need to comply in sexual activities it’s ok, if you need to lie or steal it’s ok, if you need to put your body in great danger it’s ok, if you need to pretend to like the abuse it’s ok. Don’t be ashamed. If you are afraid it’s ok. If you don’t make it, it’s ok. If you can’t save someone but did your best it’s ok. If you die it’s ok, I’ll take care of you.

Maybe I’m distorting my memory but this is how I feel that it was. This was the answer to my prayers. And I never felt shame, guilt or whatever over the things I did to save others or my sanity.

All through my healing process the years of abuse that I managed to handle have not been that difficult for me to remember. The most difficult about that is that I feel unnormal and sort of insane knowing how I would reason, take on abuse for the protection of others and how I remember it all like it was ok. Like as long as I managed to hold it it was ok. What is always really horrifying to remember is when others were abused and I would see and hear it, not being able to save them. And occations when I fell through, when I couldn’t take the abuse and they took someone else. And the times when I didn’t choose to take on the abuse because I was angry or anything, oh God forgive me for those times!

I think what I received from God was understanding for the situation as it was, and forgiveness for the sins I had to commit in order to keep my sanity and save others. I think if I was a different kind of person, I would have received the message that hiding from the abuse was ok or whatever. Anything you need to do to protect your sanity and your soul. For me, in the way that I functioned, the best way of protecting my sanity was to take on the abuse. I really think it was. So I think I received the ok of doing what I needed to do to protect myself and then the forgiveness so that I could live with it and handle it.

But I don’t think that God wanted the situation to be in the first place. No, I don’t think that. God just helped me forgive myself and handle the situation but the situation itself was wrong! I guess now I need to listen to God again and not just having decided God wants me to suffer, but listen to the real message I get. It’s about forgiveness too, about me not being perfect and about all the things I did being forgiven. I’m not there yet, I get angry and refuse to accept forgiveness for anything, but I hear the message.



""The important thing to me is that Jesus did not escape abuse because of his privileged position and identity. He went through it. And according to the Bible, he did it for us. That is very powerful for me. A proof of his love – that I always had reservations about before (like he loves the whole world – but not me.) And the fact that God allowed Jesus to suffer without intervention tells me that just because I suffered without intervention, it doesn’t mean that God does not love me.""

Yes, I think this is a big part of why I identify with christianity. This is so true and makes it a bit easier for me to understand myself.

""I totally agree with this – couldn’t have said it better myself. No answers … I don’t get it either – I just have to believe that there is a bigger plan and God has the whole picture. I just have to put that aside sometimes and hope that someday it will all make sense – or maybe that it won’t matter as much anymore. Not easy to do. I want answers!""

Well, on this point I guess I’m still stuck. I refuse to be grateful to God for good things that happened to me, for nice people, for skills that I have. No way. But I guess I going towards an acceptance that this is something that I can’t understand. I don’t think that the bad stuff that happened were the will of God but I don’t think the good stuff were Gods doing either. Maybe there is some kind of enormous karmic world destiny of millions of threads which together form a meaning somehow, I don’t know, but I believe there is a meaning somewhere only I can’t see it. But I won’t be grateful for the good things. No no. There comes my limit.

*** “But then I remember being abandoned during abuse, and I remember that my purpose in life is to be abused,” ***

Here – I totally disagree with you. I don’t believe that your purpose was to be abused. I believe that was a perversion of and rebellion against God’s purpose for you that was imposed upon you by perpetrators that did not care about you or about God’s purposes. I challenge you to try and find God’s true purpose for you. I’m still finding mine.

*** “and then there is this wall between me and God that I can’t get myself through.”
“How do you manage to have a relationship with God? I really want to know.”***

""As i understand it, this part is both incredibly simple – and incredibly difficult for our human minds to understand. If you make it through to this point, let me know if it is making sense. This is already pretty long – but I want you to know your concerns are taken seriously. Do you have any comments or questions or objections? I don’t want to throw too much at you at once. And if you prefer, we can continue this by way of PMs.

i honor you for your persistent pursuit of truth and wrestling with these difficult issues instead of just giving up.""

Thank you! The last days I've been feeling that the wall between me and God much is there because of me refusing to accept forgiveness. I still hate myself and I'd rather go to hell and be punished for eternity. So my own pride in not accepting forgiveness is in the way for my healing and my relationship with God. Don't know what to do about that. Guess I'm just not ready to really give in to God yet. Still struggling.

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#403093 - 07/10/12 04:28 AM Re: Love of God? [Re: Blessedcurse]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
Well, my mind keeps thinking.

I think I always kept in contact with the love inside of me and the moral compass. I always knew right from wrong and I always could feel in my whole body and mind when something was wrong. I guess this inner well of light is what I see as the imprint of God in me. And I always could tap into that.

Sadly, the situation I was in made it impossible to tap into that well and follow what was right, and still get what I needed like physical protection and such.

Rather than closing myself to this inner well of light, letting myself drift away from what was right, I stayed by the well but then had to sacrifice my body. I regret none of that. If I hade to make that choise today I'd do it all over. But this doesn't mean abuse was good or meant to be. It just means that in that situation, the alternative (leaving the inner well of light to save my body) would ultimately have damaged me even more, in ways I might never be able to repair. My inner well of light never dried.

Sadly, to be able to endure the abuse, I developed really negative ways of thinking of myself. It was just a fact that abuse was so much easier to endure when I kept telling myself I deserved it, I was worthless, I hated myself and wanted to die and so on. I feel that this is one of the things that God approved of, giving me the message that this is ok since I need it.

Only now, when abuse have ended, I have tremendous difficulties in adjusting to a healthy life. I have my inner well intact, my ability to love and my moral compass. But sadly I completely associate love with self sacrifice. It was good that I chose that path being so little. I don't regret it and I respect my child self for it. I'm even grateful (to my child self, not god) for chosing this instead of closing to the inner well and perhaps being lost forever. But I never learned any other way to love than to sacrifice myself. That doesn't mean it has to be the same thing. But to me it is. I never learned otherwise.

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