bodyguard , From the previous post on Homophobia, thank you for providing the personal insite you shared with us. The self clarity you have come to is something we can all aspire to.

Updates"
This is the apology Robert Spitzer just released
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIifMxPcRnI

Dr Spitzer has asked NARTH not to use his original paper and video cuz the ex gay possibility conclusions are not in the context of the original purpose of the paper.

Spitzer asks how these EX-GAY groups continue to give weight and creedance the scientific basis their posistion based on this one study they have been citing that has now been discounted. "how do they live with themselves? " Spitzer asks.

He goes on "they are full of hatred of homosexuality, really, they dont respond ethically"
He encourages men "if they are homosexual , face up to it and become more comfortable".

Homosexuality is "not changeable any attempt to change is misguided, any attempt will likely be disappointing and harmful".

So there you have it. Even the term Exgay is a term they came up with as is the term same sex attraction, this implies that you can leave the gay behind, somehow evolve from it. That the previous gay is less than the new not-gay.

I like the idea of just accepting what you are.

What I earlier said and i stand behind it is that the EX GAY movement has no cred. California has just banned this form of moneymaking therapy cuz there is no basis for it in science and the key article they use to support their unfounded claims has been asked by its author, see above, to desist from using unfounded conclusions from his work as the basis of their tenets.

“The California legislature has taken the right step in making sure that young people are protected from these unscrupulous therapists who are really engaging in therapeutic deception that is based on junk science,” Equality California's Rebekah Orr told CNN.

http://www.care2.com/causes/ban-on-ex-gay-therapy-for-minors-passes-california-senate.html

The National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), a group which promotes the therapy, called the measure “another triumph of political activism over objective science.”

So here you have NARTH creating its own reality. It is completely unevolved.

What Spitzer says that is that you cannot say unequivically that ALL gay people can NEVER change , just that it is excedingly unlikely and no where near the success rate these Ex-Gay groups claim. Further, only a mature adult can make a choice to chose this path under their own volition. Youths , however, need to be protected from this less than scrupulous "Therapy".

As the popcorn pops some start early , most in the middle and then a few burnt stragglers. There will always be a few that know early, most in the middle and some realize their orientation later. Some likely will remain unpopped.

I would never contend that there cannot be exceptions, there clearly can. But the machinery around EX GAY and groups like NARTH et al. Its time to put those in the dust bin of history, and certainly on this site where the goal is to come to acceptance of who we are, what ever we are.

Not as the Ex Gay group would have you believe, that there is a better alternative if you only just work hard enough, cuz gay ain't the way.

No tone intended. Just honesty.

WoW,

I agree completely. I think the "ex-gay" movement is shame based and hate based. I think the idea that if you work hard you can fix it sets up the subject for a huge (and in my case life threatening) failure. To say that my family harmed me is understatement of the most criminal nature, but the reality is that the violations of my physical person were not the most damaging. The total shaming of my personality and gay identity were the most incredibly damaging. I was entering life without the ability to succeed because my life had been that of a sex toy or a prostitute, worse a slave because I didn't get money or pay. I didn't date, and didn't funtion well in the real world. I had/have a huge confidence deficit, I have spent most of my life locked in a battle for self esteem. I lost my childhood to CSA/incest/physical abuse, and by the time I figured out how to come out I felt as if I was "too old" to be gay. My sense of loss was profound, and opening my mind (to accept that I was not too old nor was my life over) was almost beyond my abilies to accomplish. My difficulty accepting my gay identity was/is the most moving part of my personal tragedy, as I married two women and fathered a son who is now 18 and spends time with me and my partner. I have at long last made my peace with being gay and resent like hell my families attempts to shame me into silence. Gay rights is not idealism for me, it is my attempt to right the wrongs perpetuated upon me by growing up gay in my conservative religious family and in the deep south. I mourn for my younger self who was so isolated and alone and even today will cry when seeing two gay teens holding hands or kissing. I have a great marriage to my husband, and work in Therapy to hopefully deal with some of these frozen feelings.

In the meantime....let's hope the ex gays forget to rattle their tamborine and proclaim their message in their attempt to whitewash the world and make it just like they want it to be, I didn't deserve to hate myself because I couldn't be straight...and neither should anyone else!

G

The total shaming of my personality and identity were the most incredibly damaging.

I am not gay or from the south or the unhappy member of a family full of right-wing whack-jobs but I feel you. Preach!

Thank you Scotty,

Let's hear it for the overthrow of right-wing-whack-jobs!!!
G

Everything I have seen on the EX-GAY movement is that it is bad. I believe the “Ex-Gay” movement preys on the prejudice against gays while also creating those prejudices. They help to create the problem, and money off it at the same time. I really fell for those who want to change their sexuality but their appears to be no magic pill or treatment to change that.

It’s like taking a bunch of blacks and teaching all the negative "stereo types" about blacks so he will want to become white and then handing him some makeup. Next thing you know they start wearing white makeup like Michael Jackson, but they are still black. A lot of blacks would have wanted to be white when decimation was at its’ high; you could have made yourself rich if white people believed it worked even if it was just white markup and a lot of self hate to create the desire to take the time to put on the make up every morning. Similarly “Ex-Gay” treatment provides a lot of self hate to create a reason to hide it and therapy is like makeup so you can say your better to those that knew you were black.

Somewhere I read that the Same Sex Attraction never goes away even with treatment… Some residual attraction still remains. Ex-Gay = Gay with enough gay hatred to hide who you are.

It doesn't matter if I"m gay or straight.

I just need to accept myself.

D

As I have told friends who have thought about doing pray the gay away - If you try it, it will shame and humiliate you and, make you the worst kind of liar, a liar to yourself.

Yes our sexuality can be fluid and, it can change, but that's individual, personal and we don't need anyone telling us what we are, we need to come to it and accept it in our own time, on our own terms.