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#400499 - 06/15/12 12:05 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I always groan when people assert they may not want children. It's short-sighted.

I have a mother and father who are elderly. I have 3 half-siblings and a sister and brother. Of the 6 of us, 3 of us make sure their needs are met. Anyone who doesn't have children is banking on either never making it to old age, or believing that when THEY get old, they won't need anyone to take care of them.

That is the most juvenile thinking I can imagine. Dad's 96, and he doesn't even remember what "doing the laundry" is, much less do any of it.

Wake up, all you childlessly inclined types.
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#400500 - 06/15/12 12:42 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
I am not sure that having someone take care of me in my elder years is a decent enough reason to have kids. I actually admire people who qustion having children and come to the right solution for themselves. No doubt it would be in the best interest of any possible children.

I feel the same for someone who decides to remain single in life.


Daryl
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#400501 - 06/15/12 12:49 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
I agree with prisonerID. But I feel this is a bit OT and also I think noone has the right to an opinion about other peoples choise in this matter unless invited. Wich is not the case since the questiong in this post was about marriage, not children.

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#400505 - 06/15/12 01:22 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Dear BC,

Maybe you're not aware, but many women want to have children, and when they wait and wait and wait for a man, it diminishes sometimes to the point of impossibility, the ability to have children for a woman.

This is part and parcel of marriage. I've known lots of girls who waited and waited, and then, the man doesn't marry them, and the women who wanted children couldn't.

So, this is part of the calculus for a woman, whether she wants to have children. If she doesn't, then she can wait on a man for a hundred years, it doesn't matter.

I consider these things, because I am a woman. Unlike Bruce Willis, I can't have kids when I'm in my late 50s.

Also, it's not off topic. She wanted to know if she should wait or not. Part of that calculation for a female is how much longer can she have children? She didn't mention if she was thinking of it or not. I"m not a mind reader. I do the best with what I have, as we all do.

D.


Edited by Disappointed (06/15/12 01:23 PM)
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#400581 - 06/16/12 09:58 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
A couple of thoughts...a wise woman on this board pointed out that the response I was expecting from my husband is perfectly reasonable IF he were coming from a healthy emotional place. Survivors who have yet to fully address their issues are not coming from that place. Some don't even know what it looks like. Furthermore, responses of loved ones to their overtures can impact them greatly. To the in damaged psyche, a pulling back because he pulled back for a week might sting but the brain would say, well I see her point. For some survivors all they can see is rejection - and not of the moment or the behavior - but them.

Your situation until he gets along further in his therapy is pocked w tiny little minefields. While abuse is something that happened to him, the residual effect is woven into who he is. It doesn't make him bad or even damaged as a whole per se, but you both have to learn how to navigate the differences. It's neither quick nor easy. This week, I think it's worth it. (can't say for next week). Patiently, like your guy, my guy has so many wonderful qualities.

For the OT subject of children--progeny to care for you in old age seems like a selfish reason to have them and also a risk--I know people who have children that don't do this. The money spent on raising kids, no small amount, could be saved/invested to purchase reliable care.
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#400597 - 06/16/12 02:44 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Yes, it's a risk. Everything has risk. But it's not selfish to want to have support in old age. It's simply practical to invest in your children, who then return it. From what I have heard, raising children is hard work - not exactly a "selfish" enterprise.

Or you could let the government take care of you, then the government gets to decide when it doesn't want to spend money on you anymore.




Edited by Disappointed (06/16/12 02:51 PM)
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#400605 - 06/16/12 04:12 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: GoodHope]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: GoodHope

Your situation until he gets along further in his therapy is pocked w tiny little minefields. While abuse is something that happened to him, the residual effect is woven into who he is. It doesn't make him bad or even damaged as a whole per se, but you both have to learn how to navigate the differences. It's neither quick nor easy. This week, I think it's worth it. (can't say for next week). Patiently, like your guy, my guy has so many wonderful qualities.




Thank you, Good Hope. I feel like you "get" it.


Edited by patientlywaiting (06/16/12 04:13 PM)

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#400649 - 06/17/12 01:12 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
mpm01 Offline


Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 85
Loc: Australia
Hi patiently waiting.. I think that Good Hope is on the mark. I am in the middle of working full time on trying to 'not' communicate unless in the "functional adult" emotional self. The moment that I enter into any interaction which is from the "wounded child" emotional state, the content and tone of what I am saying has nothing to do with what I really think, what I want to say, or what I really feel. I am just reacting as a angry belligerent child would. Often this would end up in highly abusive rage, or extremely irrational arguments. I am now able to come back after one of these arguments and say what it was what I really think... this took months of dedicated work to be able to do this. Now, as I say, I am now working on identifying the triggers as they happen, and just stop myself from participating in the communication.

A good example would have been like you saying "can I please finish what I'm doing first? You've been mentally gone the past 4 days and now you're having a good day so I should drop everything?" This would instantly trigger me into the 'wounded child' emotional state and I would be overcome with feelings of complete self deprecation and contempt, which would immediately result in me thinking like a wounded child, irrational and impulsive. It would sometimes even seem like nothing has changed, except for the things that I am saying are not what I really think... other times I would just end up in a total rage and in a total attack of my partner.

BTW, I have been with my partner for 14 years, unmarried, no children... I have only been working on my CSA for 1 year. I have provided my partner every opportunity to leave in the past 12 months, but somehow she is still with me. I am extremely grateful, she is my support and my rock, but it has been at a cost her, I have caused her much pain... but we are both holding tight to the one real positive, and that is that our relationship will be stronger and closer than it could have every been without having gone through such a monumental struggle.

It can be worth it.

Martin
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#402006 - 06/28/12 12:50 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
colours Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Australia
I know it is off topic but its a part that struck a chord with me, Children.

Until recently i felt very much like men had robbed me of the ability to have children, i am nearing the age where it simply wont be possible biologically.

Upon reflection i am glad of that, as i can now see (without blaming but more of an understanding) how much my parents unhealthy relationship exposed me to unhealthy beleifs about intimacy, love, marriage and parenting. It was what it was, there is always a reason, but I am so glad that i am where i am now with no children. I need to learn about what is healthy so that my children, should i have enough time left to have any, will grow up knowing what healthy is, not thinking that unhealthy is normal, not being more comfortable with unhealthy and not quite knowing healthy when they see it or what to do with it when they have it. Unfortunately, i beleive, that to have a healthy example of relationship requires two healthy partners, will it ever be perfect?? Probably not, but i dont think healthy equates to perfect anway.

I am now starting to learn about what intimacy really means, sex i know about, am good at, i beleived that was what intimacy was.

Putting my care for myself above the care i have for others is almost like a foreign concept, i understand it, but my exposure to this lesson was watching my mother give give give and my father take take take. Watching mum compromise herself and her beleifs, perceptions, dreams and goals so that dad was happy and wouldnt leave her. Unaware as i was of this until recently - monkey see monkey do, im working on this but i have been like a little replica of my mother in this behaviour.

Healthy Behaviours are what you should be experiencing from your parents or indeed single parent, they are how we first begin to learn these life lessons, when they were unhealthy, and this is my view, I feel that we owe it to our prospective children to learn healthy behaviours prior to becoming parents. Rather than repeat the cycle.

Now in saying all that, i have done many things in the past that i didnt really have understanding for the reasons why, so lets just say my first husband and i had of had children, well i cant erase the first say 10 years of my childs life learning from me but i sure can do something about it now, and i am.

I am just lucky, i could have easily have had children before my csa even came to the surface or before i understood the impact that my early family life had on my behavioural development. We can only do what we know at the time i guess, i didnt know that i even had unhealthy behaviour, i just felt bad, sad, angry etc, and i did what i knew how to do to get what i needed, thats just how it was. I couldnt do any different because i didnt know any different.

Now im learning different, and i can say for me, that i wont be having children until i have a much better understanding of HEALTHY and am able to participate in HEALTHY behaviours within my relationship. If that means that i run out of time well so be it, I cant teach my kids what i dont know. Will it be my current partners fault that i ran out of time?, NO, this is my decision, I am not a victim, I have the choice to find another partner, or have a child by any other means, but that wont help if i am not healthy anyway.

I guess what i am saying is that there are a multitude of choices that can be made in relation to choosing kids over staying in a relationship with a csa survivor, or not choosing, or waiting, or not having kids, or not choosing anything etc etc, but they are all choices, looking at yourself on the inside and seeing what choices you are really making and why i guess is more important, weighing up what it is that you really want from life for yourself, what is important and identifying the risks to that associated with whatever choice you make.

I will say this, be very careful that your choice to have children heavily considers what YOU can GIVE to your child to ensure that YOUR CHILD has healthy development. and again "MONKEY SEE - MONKEY DO"

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#402040 - 06/28/12 10:10 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Wow. Just wow. Thank you for posting. I am married to a CSA survivor and he only just started dealing with it after our being together for 12 years. I am 39 and time is running out for trying to have a child - something my husband couldn't handle despite always dropping statements like "when we have kids..."

So now, children are on hold. And it may be permanent. My husband is in a fragile place and his survival is first and foremost. I may regret never having a child, but I will never regret choosing my husband's survival over that.

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