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#400213 - 06/12/12 08:30 AM Is porn screwing you?
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupi...-problem?page=2

The more I learn about sexual dysfunction, the clearer it becomes that it's not the "act" of watching porn, masturbating, etc., but it's the brain chemicals that are released during and after the stimulation that creates the dysfunction/addiction.

Porn, masturbation, strip clubs and all of the other forms of self-stimulation are screwing (or should I say un-screwing?) so many.

I don't believe a person, especially a male, as they tend to be more visually stimulated than women, can achieve a full, healthy, intimate sex life with a living, breathing partner so long as he/she continues artificially overdosing on these brain chemicals at will.

What do you think?

Peace and Love to All who Suffer-
herowannabe
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#400226 - 06/12/12 11:50 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
JoeUniverseHP Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 72
I'm in SLAA for that reason. I have avoided sex industry (mainly porn for me) since jan 8 and my life has improved immeasurably since then. The discovery in that group is the reason why I am in this forum (I am working on my steps and repressed memories of my abuse came up).

Sexual gratification could turn into an addiction for those addiction prone.

Here is an enlightening video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_...p;v=wSF82AwSDiU

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#400244 - 06/12/12 03:59 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Cant argue with you there Hero.
If I wasn't drunk as a skunk then I would be online like a perverted teenager leering at hideous skanks doing the honky tonk.

When I look back on this incredible dysfunction, while having a perfectly sexual wife in the bedroom down the hall, I want to cry.
How much time I have wasted, how many nights of passion have I squandered with a beautiful woman in favour of this horrible form of self medication.

Sometimes when I think about the things I have lost due to men that could not control their horrible perverted minds, I really want to go and find them and torture them till they cant have a normal life.

I suppose that this will not give me back the drunken years that I lost with my beautiful wife and my precious daughter.

Well at least I have the opportunity to make it up to them and spoil them rotten with tons of healthy me.

Stay strong all, it does get better.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#400245 - 06/12/12 04:08 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
Yourbrainonporn.com has lots of good information on this topic.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#400249 - 06/12/12 04:48 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
After being through what I have been through, never agsain can I look at porn as some harmless crap.

It is damaging to all involved including the women whose self esteem is so low that they are willing to spread their legs for a few bucks.

One can only imagine what has happened to them that allows them to humiliate themselves so.

As for the men who view, in my opinion, it has to do with beign in control and not having to risk being vulnerable with your partner. I think it is a fear of intimacy that drives men to this. There is no risk involved, no vulnerability involved and no chance of being rejected. It is all about fear of intimacy. I believe this about all "acting out" behaviours especially prostitution, masturbation and porn.

Does your brain get screwed up by all this? Absolutely, normal vanilla sex is no longer as exciting to you. A woman's vagina will not give the same pressure as your hand so masturbation can ruin regular sex for you and make excitement and ejaculation difficult for you.

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#400296 - 06/13/12 12:37 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I'm very aware that a lot of survivors turn to porn and sex addiction to numb the pain of sexual abuse. Perhaps it is a form of "acting out" for those survivors.

I'd say that some porn users are survivors, some survivors are porn users, but not all porn users are survivors and vice versa. I gave up porn years before my assault and I'm proud to say that it hasn't been part of my life since before I married my wife.

I gave it up, not because of some contemporary study about brain chemicals or with a 12 step program, but because I believed it was a sin and I was in the process of becoming a Catholic. And my faith has always taught that sexuality and intimacy between partners ought to go hand in hand. I didn't need some study to tell me that ;-)

I was in high school in the late 90's, the Internet was still a baby but like all guys my age, I was into porn and thought nothing of it. I had a folder on my Windows 98 PC titled "Algebra" filled with smutty files. It wasn't something I did to act out. It was something I did because I was a teenager and I saw nothing wrong with it. I think a lot of non-CSA survivors can get sucked into a porn addiction easily, but it is probably particularly hard for the survivor. I wouldn't know because I didn't fall under the category of "male survivor" until I was 28. But giving up porn was probably one of the best decisions I could have made before getting married. It set the tone for the healthy, happy marital sex life that ensued, until that was completely taken away from me after I was raped 2 years ago and rendered sexually dead.

For me, the solution to giving up porn was empathy. I recall many years ago going to confession with a priest, and telling him of my struggles with habitual lust. The priest said to me, "I hope you never go back to those porn websites. But if you're ever tempted, take a minute to look at their eyes. See these women as human beings with feelings and a personality. Then close out of those windows, and do something productive with your life. Say a prayer for those women and their souls." I also thought about the plastic surgery they have had, and the Photoshop filters they have gone through. My fiancee (now wife) was beautiful even without all that stuff. Even though at the time, she claimed it didn't hurt her that I looked at porn, I know now that wasn't true. My actions did hurt her. Our path to healing happened through prayer and our shared experience of the Catholic sacraments. I can definitely say that I won the battle over porn and haven't had the desire to go back to it in a long time.

I don't think this is a matter of brain chemicals. I think it's a matter of postmodern culture selling its soul for a pack of Trojans. But that's just me smile
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#400331 - 06/13/12 11:33 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
Justaname Offline


Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 17
I have mixed views on porn. I have no moral objection to it's use, there are plenty of healthy adults in the world who attest to it being a positive in the sex lives, though for me it's a dangerous game. To me I view it kind of like a drug, it is stimulating, addictive, instantly and temporarily rewarding and incredibly isolating.

Who needs a partner or a real sex life when you've got porn right?

Though I must say that hardcore porn was the only thing that gave me any sexual satisfaction early on in my late teens. It was the only thing that stimulated me enough to get any sense of sexuality, and in essence was a bit of a life saver in that regard.

I also think that I can be and have been sexually numb from the use of porn, i.e. rarely get proper orgasm ( very very rarely do anyway ) and it just feels like a ritual with action and release.

If you think about it, porn isn't a natural function for us as humans, we are biologically geared for human to human sexual interaction, so I think the biggest question to ask is is porn getting in the way of having any real human sexual interaction? if the answer is yes and you desire that, it might be a good idea to say goodbye to it for a while at least

So for me there are a number of facets to it. I think it really is up to the individual to weigh up the pro's and cons in regards to porn and what they want from their life.

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#400335 - 06/13/12 12:12 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
JoeUniverseHP Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 72
Well said.

In SLAA there are some viewpoints that say that addiction to porn is "sexual anorexia", meaning deprivation of real human intimacy substituted with images on a screen. That was certainly the case for me as I had, in the throes of my porn addiction, decided that perhaps I was never to be with another, destined to me "married to my computer".

I will read "Sexual Anorexia" by Patrick Carnes PhD in summer which probably has some views on the matter.

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#400354 - 06/13/12 04:33 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
Pie Offline


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 61
Hi Hero

(I had a philosophical reply about porn, well I deleted that, haha)

Fantastic post! My experiance with my h porn addiction was exactly that.

Since the porn has stopped we have been having an amazing "honeymoon". I don't really care about the chemicals or guilt or shame or whatever problems happen with the addiction or even the "social" viewing of it. For both of us the reward of not having porn has been sensational.

Porn is no longer screwing with me
Pie

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#400357 - 06/13/12 05:40 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
Dolphinboy Offline


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 39
Hi Hero

Yes, porn is screwing me! I see my fascination with porn - not addiction to - as harmless escapism.
Since I am single and not in any kind of a relationship, I fail to see the harm in using porn as a sexual outlet. Can this be compared to an alcoholic in denial, saying he doesn't have a drinking problem?
_________________________
When there are dolphins in the waves,
the sharks wont get to us.
I believed my dad that day
and became Dolphinboy,
my own protector.

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#400361 - 06/13/12 06:43 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
RollerCoaster Offline


Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 47
Loc: PA, USA
Hi Hero,

Porn has screwed me for the last 12 years(i am 30 now). I have been single throughout my life courtesy porn. For the last 4 years, i have been trying to let go of this addiction. Initially, i took help of some websites and now my T is helping me. And the results have been amazing, my confidence level is off the roof, i am feeling more emotions, i am also feeling more positive. Not that I have completely eliminated porn from my life - but i really want to and will do it one day , hopefully soon enough smile

Dolphinboy: I guess we are in similar situation as both of us are single. To check out if you are in denial or not, here is a brotherly suggestion: quit porn for 1 month and see how it affects you ? if you feel agitation, irritation and feel a compulsive desire to go back , then probably you are in denial. I would suggest read the rebooting accounts on yourbrainonporn.com for the changes people have noticed on themselves when they quit porn can be eye-openers. Personally, as i am slowly getting out of porn, i feel like a king :-) haha ... i can look at any girl in the eyes on road and say hello with a smile. I had never done that in my last 29 years of life.

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#400399 - 06/14/12 03:35 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
HI DB

I know that you think Porn is harmless, but watching porn is a lot like drinking and taking drugs. Trust me when I say this.

Watch this link again TED X Watch it carefully and see how watching porn takes away your ability to interact with real people, takes away your need to interact and have real relationships. And how the porn becomes harder and harder and more shocking to provide more shock value in order to have some effect on your libido.

Watching porn alters the chemicals in your brain so that eventually you don't need the interaction of real people.

Porn for survivors is the excuse we need not to face our lives and to deal with the problems that have plagued us since we were abused. There is also some interesting info on porn on Amsosa check it out. All the stuff on this site is written by a survivor.

I know that you feel it is harmless because you are on your own, but truth is that you are impacting on your own health terribly.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#400430 - 06/14/12 03:59 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
Dolphinboy Offline


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 39
Martin & RC
Thanks for replying to my post. This is exactly why I appreciate this site so much; getting real advice from real people who really care! I am on MS because I want to get better, fill in the missing puzzle pieces of my life and start to LIVE. I don't want to slink in the shadows of life, but move into the sunlight and take a chance on love and happiness. If porn is holding me back, then I will do my best - no, then I WILL kick the habit. I guess like most guys here I am just uninformed and in need of guidance in this respect (and many other areas). Hope to report back here in a month's time. Just one question; how do I stop? No more watching what so ever or is taking a peek from time to time allowed?
_________________________
When there are dolphins in the waves,
the sharks wont get to us.
I believed my dad that day
and became Dolphinboy,
my own protector.

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#400433 - 06/14/12 04:21 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
No peek NOOO PEEEK LOL

DB there is a SLAA and a SAA group down in the Cape Town area. That is a Sex (Love) Addicts Anonymous group. Try to get in touch with them there are a few down there.
They will be able to help with the Porn addiction, but will also help with your CSA issues.

Try it, group is often the best treatment for both these.

Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#400447 - 06/14/12 07:51 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
RollerCoaster Offline


Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 47
Loc: PA, USA
Hi DB,
I second my opinion on whatever Martin has said. No peek at all :-)
And regarding taking these things out of yourself in a group, I cannot agree more. It may be the quickest way to deal with porn addiction.
Meanwhile, I would urge you to read (http://www.feedtherightwolf.org/ and yourbrainonporn.com) for increasing your knowledge about this issue.

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#400502 - 06/15/12 12:54 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
JoeUniverseHP Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 72
I loooove my SLAA meetings and program...I just did my fifth step with my sponsor last night and I feel great about it.

I haven't watched porn since the beginning of this year and it has been amazing.

Then I started surfing reddit.com and there was a thread about incest which really triggered me so I don't surf that website any more; I don't need another news aggregator in my life, the websites I regularly visit are enough for me.

Since unhooking from sex industry, I find myself approaching life much more focused, I don't sexualize every woman any more, much more realism and less fantasy, life is more intense but I am moderating my reactions due to experiencing life more realistically. It's great.

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#400534 - 06/15/12 07:09 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
JoeUniverseHP-
You are an inspiration! I am so blessed by the success of your recovery. Thank you for sharing it!

DolphinBoy-
God love you! I will be remembering you in my prayers, and ask God to send His angels to support you! You can do this, sweet soul!!!

Everyone-
Thanks for your honest input. Experience is the best teacher, and you've share valuable lessons with all on this board! I'm moved and humbled by your struggles! Thank you for so generously sharing!

Keep the input coming, all! What if your wise words save even just one survivor the hell of porn addiction???? I'd say your efforts are "type well spent"! wink

Love and Peace-
herowannabe
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#400569 - 06/16/12 04:11 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
The only problem with the "porn" brain argument is the people watching it predominantly don't have a healthy view of sexuality for whatever reason or reasons and little human contact/sexuality.

Oxytocin is secreted during orgasm. The reason people watch porn?

There is better argument to addicting behavior via brain chemisty--Oxytocin or the lack thereof. With human contact, Oxytocin is released along with dopamine. Nicotine and drugs actually stimulate Oxytocin production. The theory is more Oxytocin, less addictive and anti-social behavior. Oxytocin is called the "love" chemical for a reason. However, there really isn't evidence you can become addicted to Oxytocin like you can dopamine (awesome Bipolar highs there). High dopamine levels lead to high sexual drive in men or women. It did me. It's artificial testosterone, or, more appropriately take the place of it. Even then, you can't OD on dopamine.

Therefore, porn actually is beneficial to people who lack sufficient production of Oxytocin because it makes the brain produce it. Porn isn't addictive. Oxytocin is. I don't see any reason why CSA or ASA wouldn't cause a lack of Oxytocin and cause an over production of Dopamine.

Elation, a feeling of well-being and so forth is the brain absorbing Oxytocin. People with depression have been proven to not produce enough Oxytocin.

I've heard the adrenaline argument, too. Healthy (?) will produce adrenaline. Don't believe me? Were you nervous the first time? That's adrenaline (fight or flight response).

Oxytocin, that one small chemical, really is the peace chemical. Truth is, many of us don't have 'normal' brain chemistry and lack Oxytocin. Why is nicotine so addictive? It produces Oxytocin. So does weed.

Most of these porn arguments have been supposed by the religious bunch. Oh, it's f-cks up your brain. No, dufus, you're brain was f-cked up before it. Okay, where's my Oxytocin spray? That actually has cured hallucinations and depression.

OXYTOCIN SPRAYS you see for sale are snake oil. It's not available to the public. Only a moron would take exstacy but it causes it to be produced. The other problem is it doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier so synthetic doesn't work well. Only your brain makes the right stuff. The dude that discovered it won the Nobel Prize in the 50s.


Edited by phoenix321 (06/16/12 04:41 AM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#400664 - 06/17/12 07:27 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Hummmmmmmm,Here are some other thoughts on Oxytocin.


Bonding. In the Prairie Vole, oxytocin released into the brain of the female during sexual activity is important for forming a monogamous pair bond with her sexual partner. Vasopressin appears to have a similar effect in males. Oxytocin has a role in social behaviors in many species, and so it seems likely that it also does in humans. In 2003, a study showed that in both humans and dogs oxytocin levels in the blood rose after five to twenty-four minutes of a petting session. It is possible that this plays a role in the emotional bonding between humans and dogs.
Oxytocin evokes feelings of contentment, reductions in anxiety, and feelings of calmness and security around the mate. Many studies have already shown a correlation of oxytocin with human bonding, increases in trust, and decreases in fear.

Could this be why most of us bonded with our perp's?
Maybe bonding with porn too? You feel safe????


Romantic Attachment – In some studies, high levels of plasma oxytocin have been correlated with romantic attachment. For example, if a couple is separated for a long period of time, anxiety can increase due to the lack of physical affection. The authors of a recent study suggest that oxytocin may aid romantically attached couples by decreasing their feelings of anxiety when they are separated.

In other word's, By self medicating your self (by jerking off)you wont miss your partner so much. We have all been down that road before.
No thanks, I want that feeling of missing her.

Porn is Porn, nothing more nothing less than a way to Secretly have an afair with yourself. I dont care how anyone spins it.

Blessings
_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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#400670 - 06/17/12 08:27 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: Dar]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Dar
Hummmmmmmm,Here are some other thoughts on Oxytocin.


Bonding. In the Prairie Vole, oxytocin released into the brain of the female during sexual activity is important for forming a monogamous pair bond with her sexual partner. Vasopressin appears to have a similar effect in males. Oxytocin has a role in social behaviors in many species, and so it seems likely that it also does in humans. In 2003, a study showed that in both humans and dogs oxytocin levels in the blood rose after five to twenty-four minutes of a petting session. It is possible that this plays a role in the emotional bonding between humans and dogs.
Oxytocin evokes feelings of contentment, reductions in anxiety, and feelings of calmness and security around the mate. Many studies have already shown a correlation of oxytocin with human bonding, increases in trust, and decreases in fear.

Could this be why most of us bonded with our perp's?
Maybe bonding with porn too? You feel safe????


Romantic Attachment – In some studies, high levels of plasma oxytocin have been correlated with romantic attachment. For example, if a couple is separated for a long period of time, anxiety can increase due to the lack of physical affection. The authors of a recent study suggest that oxytocin may aid romantically attached couples by decreasing their feelings of anxiety when they are separated.

In other word's, By self medicating your self (by jerking off)you wont miss your partner so much. We have all been down that road before.
No thanks, I want that feeling of missing her.

Porn is Porn, nothing more nothing less than a way to Secretly have an afair with yourself. I dont care how anyone spins it.

Blessings



Dar,

Here's what I said, in a nutshell, "Perhaps the easiest understanding why many do use porn is a lack of Oxytocin. An orgasm will make that happen. So will human touch. However, lacking human touch, a mate, people turn to other ways to get what they really want--Oxytocin." That's pure scientific deduction.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#400675 - 06/17/12 09:33 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Phoenix, I do see your point as a single person, My point was more towrds a person that has someone else in their life.

But now that I think about it, wouldn't Oxytocin be a sort of addiction that a person could become dependent upon for their everyday exsistance, or peice of mind?
You know the old saying, If it is too good to be true it most likely is. smile

Addiction is addiction is addiction, no mater what form it might be in.

Blessings
_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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#400747 - 06/18/12 10:33 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Phoenix.

I get what you are saying about Oxytocin, but I would not go so far as to say that Porn might be good for some is a bit of a stretch.

Dont forget that addicts need the slightest provocation to use again, and someone saying hey I read that porn is good for me is all he needs to be back and using.

Fact is that the long term use of porn is BAD, the long term effects are BAD and there is honestly nothing good in any use of Porn.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#400799 - 06/18/12 09:18 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Hey,

Here's what I said: Low Oxytocin production due to abuse, sex or emotional, makes a heck of a lot of sense. Depression and low Oxytocin is 99% proven. If a person doesn't produce Oxytocin or enough of it, they will go and find a way to get it. Artificially (a med), there is no way for the brain to get it since artificial Oxytocin doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier. The brain tells the pituitary gland to produce it in certain circumstances. This little chemical controls happiness or well-being, period. Nicotine, sex (an orgasm), and ecstasy makes the brain require the pituitary to produce it. That's pure science.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#400863 - 06/19/12 10:46 AM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
OK

I am confused, The research I have done re Ocytocin refers mainly to the female's child Birthing process, and milk production.

There is no credible Scientific evidence of the effects on men that I could find, and the research is still in the early stages.

Remember that not everything on the web is true, so it is best to look at University research studies, and Doctors that specialize in the subject.

There is a good Study that talks about the Porn effect, read this one it is interesting. No where does this study talk about Oxytocin.

I will continue my research on the subject and get back to you.

I'M NOT FIGHTING Promise, Its just interesting and I like to know the facts for the men that we support. I dont want to get caught off guard when some guy tells me that it is OK to watch porn because he read this or that study.

If you have credible studies send me the links please, Id like to be forearmed.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#400907 - 06/19/12 06:06 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: herowannabe]
JLM Offline


Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 2
I love porn. My only problem is that there's not enough of it. smile

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#400909 - 06/19/12 07:12 PM Re: Is porn screwing you? [Re: JLM]
LuckyOne Offline


Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: JLM
I love porn. My only problem is that there's not enough of it. smile



[Content removed, personal attack on another's opinion] There is more than enough porn in the world already and more being produced every day.


Edited by ModTeam (06/19/12 08:00 PM)
Edit Reason: personal attack

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#400916 - 06/19/12 08:03 PM Topic Closed [Re: herowannabe]
ModTeam Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 691
This topic is now locked. The thoughts, feelings and behaviors of other member's is sacrosanct. These thoughts can be questioned, they can be pondered or rejected, but they cannot be attacked here in MaleSurvivor. Every opinion is regarded with respect as long as it follows the guidelines and the mission of MaleSurvivor.

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